Register Register

Author Topic: Arthur Steiner Davion  (Read 3730 times)

BoyOfSummer

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • I'll either find a way or make one.
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #60 on: 22 September 2019, 04:45:54 »
Claiming that that sentence is evidence of anything other than the author not being pedantically precise is an incredible stretch.

A stretch? Maybe.

Incredible? I don't think so.

For me it's the only hard fact in all the reading I've done about the Jihad and WoB that proves or contradicts the assumption Master=Thomas Marik. I certainly haven't read all that is out there about this subject, so I could have missed it, but...

And considering J:FR was the last of the Jihad source books, it was the ideal book to place the deciding hint in it. And TPTB laugh oneself to death since then b/c nobody caught it.

So it can be on purpose. It can be a mistake also. But I reiterate: so what? He's dead, and it has no real effect on the known history of ComStar, WoB or the Jihad.

If money could talk, it would say goodbye.

roosterboy

  • Site Maintenance
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5500
  • trapped in a world I never made
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #61 on: 22 September 2019, 05:14:33 »
From the back cover of JFR...

BoyOfSummer

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • I'll either find a way or make one.
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #62 on: 22 September 2019, 05:35:11 »
My pdf of J:FR doesn't have a back cover.

So in my world nothing contradicts my line of argument.   ;)

And why does my pdf doesn't have a back cover? It must be a conspiracy. They are out there to get me.  :crazy:
If money could talk, it would say goodbye.

Chinless

  • Modicis Amice
  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 284
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #63 on: 22 September 2019, 08:06:48 »
My pdf of J:FR doesn't have a back cover.

In the pdfs, the covers are sometimes placed together at the front. That image - on the back page of the hard copy - is on p2 of the pdf.

Chris

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #64 on: 23 September 2019, 00:57:09 »
But I reiterate: so what? He's dead, and it has no real effect on the known history of ComStar, WoB or the Jihad.

Because Victor and Isis popped off a series of kids, some who ended up in positions of power.  For modern purposes, its like finding out a political candidate's grandfather was Himmler and no body knew until the evidence was trotted out . . . which is why I asked IF Stone & Co actually knew the Master was Tommy Marik.  I mean, Isis has about the best distancing possible considering she was illegitimate at first and was never raised by him . . . but conspiracy theory types are never really bothered by inconvenient facts.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16754
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #65 on: 23 September 2019, 01:52:15 »
I don't think The Master's identity was widely known or even cared about.  As far as Victor's kids are concerned, the one who's got the most to worry about if his parentage is discovered is Alaric.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #66 on: 23 September 2019, 02:39:29 »
Well . . . maybe a bit, Danai would have more of the stigma.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

BoyOfSummer

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • I'll either find a way or make one.
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #67 on: 23 September 2019, 10:52:43 »
Which Danai has a family connection to Isis?

And what's the connection between Alaric and Isis? Except as wife of his gene-dad.

And the three kids of Isis+Victor don't seen excessively major players. At least nobody wrote something about that on Sarna.

I never read the DA novels, and DA source books only partial. So my knowledge may be a little piecemeal.
If money could talk, it would say goodbye.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16754
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #68 on: 23 September 2019, 11:18:14 »
And what's the connection between Alaric and Isis? Except as wife of his gene-dad.

Absolutely nothing.  But the fact that he's the genetic kid of Kathrine and Victor would make him really unpopular among the Inner Sphere.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

BoyOfSummer

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • I'll either find a way or make one.
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #69 on: 23 September 2019, 11:44:06 »
Ah oh, yeah, the "As far as Victor's kids" I've conveniently skipped reading.  :-[
If money could talk, it would say goodbye.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #70 on: 23 September 2019, 11:50:10 »
Danai is the daughter of Daoshen and his sister Ilsa Liao-Centrella who runs the MoC, she thought she was their younger sister . . . and would be heir-apparent to both of them.

MLO4H was referring Isis kids not having as much of a stigma as Alaric.  I was merely pointing out by going through the Clan DNA blender it does not have the same stigma as a freeborn inbreeding like Danai.

VicIs kids are in interesting places . . . Burton died before Kai though had his own kids, one of whom is involved in the Curaitis network or whatever- FS/Republic secret society?- and a few other places but we were not told that much since his children were not the prime movers like Caleb or Trillian among the SDs.  In fact, a interesting twist is the FS has now shifted from the Hanse branch to a cadet branch for a First Prince.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9032
  • Hear me now and believe me later
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #71 on: 24 September 2019, 11:46:29 »
Thomas Marik was The Master. He was replaced by ComStar with Thomas Halas, who acted as the Fake Thomas Marik after 3035. The Real Slim Shady Thomas Marik rose through the ranks of the Word after the schism

Gaiiten

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1498
  • Can not get enough of BattleTech!
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #72 on: 24 September 2019, 12:19:43 »
BTW have we been told what happened with Quintus Allard-Liao, Kai`s younger brother?
Crush yah enumhees, see dem drivun befor you, and hear de lamuntatuns of de veemon!

Visit my Deviantart: http://gaiiten.deviantart.com/

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17168
  • Dang it!
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #73 on: 24 September 2019, 12:35:21 »
BTW have we been told what happened with Quintus Allard-Liao, Kai`s younger brother?
Nope.  He went underground during the Civil War happened.  That was last we heard of him.  Properly bumped off screen.  I thought i heard some thing of him during Operation Sovereign Justice during the Jihad when Kai was was rescued. 
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Nav_Alpha

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3414
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #74 on: 17 November 2019, 21:59:07 »
Nope.  He went underground during the Civil War happened.  That was last we heard of him.  Properly bumped off screen.  I thought i heard some thing of him during Operation Sovereign Justice during the Jihad when Kai was was rescued.

A bit of thread necro... but I was just flicking through Interstellar Players and came across the section on the Bounty Hunter.
it lists Quintus as a potential identity for the Bounty Hunter at some point - presumably while hiding out during the Civil War.
Just an interesting tidbit


"Hold your position, conserve ammo... and wait for the Dragoons to go Feral"
- last words of unknown merc, Harlech, 3067
Avatar by Drewbacca

Daryk

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11228
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #75 on: 17 November 2019, 22:01:08 »
Interesting, yes, and not really thread necromancy. It hasn't even been two months...

Nav_Alpha

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3414
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #76 on: 17 November 2019, 22:17:43 »
Interesting, yes, and not really thread necromancy. It hasn't even been two months...

Thread CPR, then?

Interesting idea though. Would Quint try and work hand in glove with the Allies against Kat S-D? Or pursue his own agenda. And you’ve got to presume he’s no longer in the role in 3068 when the Hunter captures Kai off St Ives?


"Hold your position, conserve ammo... and wait for the Dragoons to go Feral"
- last words of unknown merc, Harlech, 3067
Avatar by Drewbacca

Daryk

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11228
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #77 on: 17 November 2019, 22:18:42 »
Yeah... I can't really see him capturing his own brother... he must have moved on by that point.

killgore444

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #78 on: 18 November 2019, 01:46:54 »
I actually joined this site just to respond to this thread.
i'm pretty sure that Arthur was a plot thread that FASA was going to use in the original planned version of the Jihad, and that when we had the multiple company changeovers and the resulting changes in creative staff and outlines, it was a plot thread that got forgotten.

i don't think that Stone is Arthur.. as pointed out, the two men are way too different physically. far more than could be accounted for by cosmetic surgery.
If for no other reason, Victor was a close friend/follower of Devlin. It doesn't make sense he wouldn't recognize his own brother.

except Kitsune (of course, that raise's its own question of how the average Drac could overlook a kid in the royal family with a name based on a FOX!)
:)) 8)
I hit the floor laughing at this one.
On a serious note, the Kitsune in Japanese legends wasn't exactly well thought of. It'd be sort of like someone of Norse descent being named after Loki.  ???

Because Victor and Isis popped off a series of kids, some who ended up in positions of power.  For modern purposes, its like finding out a political candidate's grandfather was Himmler and no body knew until the evidence was trotted out . . . which is why I asked IF Stone & Co actually knew the Master was Tommy Marik.  I mean, Isis has about the best distancing possible considering she was illegitimate at first and was never raised by him . . . but conspiracy theory types are never really bothered by inconvenient facts.
Look at politics today. People who's ancestors kept slaves 160 years ago will have problems. Someone who's granddad was responsible for killing billions would have a LOT of problems. Double so since there are still a lot of people who lived through the jihad still alive.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16754
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #79 on: 18 November 2019, 03:08:52 »
On a serious note, the Kitsune in Japanese legends wasn't exactly well thought of. It'd be sort of like someone of Norse descent being named after Loki.  ???

Well, that would be the pop-culture version of kitsune, anyway.  In actual Japanese mythology they ranged from benevolent servants of the goddess Inari to mischievous tricksters to outright fiendish.  But it's a heck of an on-the-nose name for a descendant of Hanse Davion.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

killgore444

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #80 on: 18 November 2019, 05:18:25 »
Well, that would be the pop-culture version of kitsune, anyway.  In actual Japanese mythology they ranged from benevolent servants of the goddess Inari to mischievous tricksters to outright fiendish.  But it's a heck of an on-the-nose name for a descendant of Hanse Davion.
One of the most common themes in those stories though, is that they are NOT the friends of the ruling class.  ;)
As for being an on-the-nose name for a descendant of Hanse Davion; yes it is. To bad her father Victor didn't didn't live up to expectations. :-\

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16754
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #81 on: 18 November 2019, 14:06:44 »
Kitsune Kurita is a guy.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

killgore444

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #82 on: 19 November 2019, 04:26:07 »
Kitsune Kurita is a guy.
OK.
I stopped paying attention when Dark Ages came out and they stopped printing the stories. If it wasn't for the Stackpole books, I'd never have used anything from the canon setting.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #83 on: 19 November 2019, 11:37:11 »
Huh?  They had a whole line of DA novels, and while the first 10 had some real jarring stinkers (Ruins of Paper & PG Trilogy) it settled down with a lot of the current writers.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6787
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #84 on: 19 November 2019, 13:24:43 »
OK.
I stopped paying attention when Dark Ages came out and they stopped printing the stories. If it wasn't for the Stackpole books, I'd never have used anything from the canon setting.

Kitsune Kurita was first introduced in the first book, Ghost War by Micheal Stackpole. Kitsune's only other appearance I'm aware of is in the opening of the Era Digest: Dark Age when he is reviewing the intelligence reports with Victor prior to Ghost War. Victor himself doesn't appear again until The Scorpion Jar which is also his last (if you don't count his funeral)

In any case: Arthur is still dead.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #85 on: 19 November 2019, 13:53:55 »
Pretty sure Kitsune was mentioned about the funeral due to the complications with his cousins . . . and I think he is POV or a researcher for the POV for one of the MWDA SBs.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

killgore444

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #86 on: Today at 03:31:46 »
Huh?  They had a whole line of DA novels, and while the first 10 had some real jarring stinkers (Ruins of Paper & PG Trilogy) it settled down with a lot of the current writers.
Kitsune Kurita was first introduced in the first book, Ghost War by Micheal Stackpole. Kitsune's only other appearance I'm aware of is in the opening of the Era Digest: Dark Age when he is reviewing the intelligence reports with Victor prior to Ghost War. Victor himself doesn't appear again until The Scorpion Jar which is also his last (if you don't count his funeral)

In any case: Arthur is still dead.
  I only ever read a single one of the DA novels, and that one was told from the POV of a old lady in the former FWL, and had at the beginning VSD's funeral.
 Other than some of the classic battletech books about the jihad and the aftermath, and the technical readouts that came out at the same time as ToW, I never followed the canonverse very much.
 The group I played with at the time really wasn't into BT, so I spent my limited funds elsewhere. The Clix turned me off hard, then finding out the center 120 LYs of the Inner Sphere was barred from jump drives despite there being NOTHING in any of the previous versions of BT to allow that set my teeth grinding. Add in some of the [imo]...   ...faulty decisions made about game mechanics and construction rules, I just stopped buying.
 I never stopped loving the game though. I started with Battledroids when first released, stuck with it through the name change. Then through all the other changes all the way till DA.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #87 on: Today at 12:43:24 »
MWDA and BT were different games from a shared universe, so not sure which you refer to as mechanics or construction.

If you read about a older woman from the League at Vic's funeral, that was Jessica Marik who later on put the League back together so it was into the point when they got better.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

killgore444

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #88 on: Today at 13:25:42 »
MWDA and BT were different games from a shared universe, so not sure which you refer to as mechanics or construction.
  This probably isn't the thread for this discussion, but beginning gripe now:
 Suffice to say that I disliked BA, ProtoM, and some of the other construction rules in CBT. I also disliked how, once ToW came out, the rules centered on canonverse rather than CV being centered on the rules.Up to that point it was rather easy to run a completely non standard game without any rule modifications.
 Heck, MW 1st ed didn't even require you to change anything to run it in a non standard setting.  The 1st campaign I ever played in for BT was on a post apocalyptic Earth with the remnants of the US and USSR doing proxy battles in the ruins of 3rd world countries. No rule modifications needed. We just ignored the 2 side bars in the rule book that gave a sample setting. I miss that, and really wish tabletops of all stripes would stop centering rules around the setting.
 End gripe. ;)
Quote
If you read about a older woman from the League at Vic's funeral, that was Jessica Marik who later on put the League back together so it was into the point when they got better.
  I'm glad the got better after that. Though I'm not sure how she would could accomplish that without out right military force. The way the FWL was always described, they barely held together when times were relatively good. After DA, it would have been split up into at least 3 states smaller than CC.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17197
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Arthur Steiner Davion
« Reply #89 on: Today at 14:00:13 »
Oh, it was a 4 or 5 book arc and Vic's funeral was in the middle of the early half? of MWDA books.  The League broke down into 6 larger states with a lot more smaller alliances and independent worlds- Marik Stewart Commonwealth, Oriente Protectorate, Principality of Regulus, Andurien, Tamarind, and Rim Commonality.  Only 3.5 of those came together to reform the League, it was a lot of diplomatic maneuvering with a bit of specific force.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149