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Author Topic: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?  (Read 732 times)

Sjhernan3060

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Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« on: 09 September 2019, 17:17:15 »
I have been interested to see that a number of non SLDF warships such as the Du Shi Wang went joined the exodus fleet.

Did ships from all the various house fleets join? The ships were salvage rather than defectors I would think?


Weirdo

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #1 on: 09 September 2019, 17:22:42 »
We know of one Du Shi Wang, and an unknown number of Davions and Samarkands. Unknown if any Makos went, I kinda have a twitch in the back of my mind that we saw one in Society service, though I could be wrong.

I don't think there's anything that even remotely suggests that any other House-built ships went.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #2 on: 09 September 2019, 17:45:59 »
We know of one Du Shi Wang, and an unknown number of Davions and Samarkands. Unknown if any Makos went, I kinda have a twitch in the back of my mind that we saw one in Society service, though I could be wrong.

I don't think there's anything that even remotely suggests that any other House-built ships went.

Weirdo glad you are weighing in on this! Mako did reappear like many others during the wars of reaving.

The du shi wang was captured by the SLDF but what about other possibilities? Tharkad? Atreus? Rim worlds salvage?

Weirdo

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #3 on: 09 September 2019, 17:52:26 »
No evidence to support any of them.
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Weirdo

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #4 on: 09 September 2019, 18:07:16 »
Bear in mind, there's no indication of the SLDF ever capturing any House warships aside from that one Du Shi Wang. Capturing ships is REALLY HARD. You need absolutely overwhelming numbers, and the risks for the marines in question make slapping a forcibly-shaved Elemental look like a quiet activity suitable to the ailing elderly. And if you try to make their jobs easier by shooting said ship, odds are the final product won't be worth salvaging. (This is especially true when you consider the odds of a battle occurring in a system with a convenient major shipyard, or the odds that League admirals will send a Newgrange into a recent battle zone.)
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dgorsman

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #5 on: 09 September 2019, 18:39:59 »
Wasn't there a number of defections during the build up to retake the Hegemony?  I can remember at least one Combine battleship mentioned.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #6 on: 09 September 2019, 19:22:06 »
Wasn't there a number of defections during the build up to retake the Hegemony?  I can remember at least one Combine battleship mentioned.

That’s what I was wondering. While I don’t think whole squadrons joined up, surely ships in ones or twos joined up during or evening after the drive on terra. Any non SLDF ship would’ve likely been cached as they would not have been as high tech as the SLDF warships

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #7 on: 09 September 2019, 19:39:05 »
Maybe early on in the SLDF's campaign but after one or two the House Lords would clamp down on those very expensive assets.

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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #8 on: 10 September 2019, 11:31:50 »
While none of the houses really helped the SLDF did any provide any kind of support such as leases of ships?

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #9 on: 10 September 2019, 11:54:26 »
Not really. Maybe some very clandestine logistical support, but no ships aside from that note about two Combine battleships. Take that last bit with a grain of salt, as we know the Combine never had any battleships.
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jimdigris

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #10 on: 10 September 2019, 16:00:12 »
It is my understanding that membership in the Star League required that all member states provide a certain number of troops and ships to the SLDF.  In the Reunification War, the Capellans gave the Star League Navy the majority of their "warships" in place of ground troops.  They didn't bother to mention that their donations were simply up-gunned civilian ships that they were going to throw in the recycle bin anyway.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #11 on: 10 September 2019, 16:17:26 »
It is my understanding that membership in the Star League required that all member states provide a certain number of troops and ships to the SLDF.  In the Reunification War, the Capellans gave the Star League Navy the majority of their "warships" in place of ground troops.  They didn't bother to mention that their donations were simply up-gunned civilian ships that they were going to throw in the recycle bin anyway.

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #12 on: 10 September 2019, 17:17:54 »
Unknown if any Makos went, I kinda have a twitch in the back of my mind that we saw one in Society service, though I could be wrong.

Not quite in Society service, but the Mako-class CBS Stone Crab and CBS Ingrid Bucharev were both part of the fleet of the resurrected Clan Burrock during the latter half of the Wars of Reaving, and the Mako-class Fuchida was operated by the bandits under the command of Russou Howell until it was destroyed by the Goliath Scorpions at Waypoint 531.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #13 on: 10 September 2019, 19:10:23 »
Not quite in Society service, but the Mako-class CBS Stone Crab and CBS Ingrid Bucharev were both part of the fleet of the resurrected Clan Burrock during the latter half of the Wars of Reaving, and the Mako-class Fuchida was operated by the bandits under the command of Russou Howell until it was destroyed by the Goliath Scorpions at Waypoint 531.

Yes correct, those makos is what started me on this thread did any big ships besides the su wang join exodus? I am currently rereading operation Klondike and it states that the SLDF bought up every jump and drop ship they could. Would the Tharkad class ship or similar class ship have been an option for purchase?

Weirdo

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #14 on: 10 September 2019, 20:52:17 »
The Makos were bought during the best years of the a League, the peak of an unimaginably vast economy, and are some of the smallest Warships ever built.

At the time of the Exodus, all humanity had just seen their golden age tear itself apart, the core of human civilization was in ruins, nobody knew if the most powerful general alive was going to turn on everyone else, and the entire Inner Sphere was gearing up for a war that for many would prove to be literally apocalyptic. Honestly, I'd be surprised if the Lyrans would be willing to sell Kerensky machine gun ammo, much less any of the battlecruisers that are the pride of their nation.
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"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #15 on: 11 September 2019, 22:35:53 »
The Makos were bought during the best years of the a League, the peak of an unimaginably vast economy, and are some of the smallest Warships ever built.

At the time of the Exodus, all humanity had just seen their golden age tear itself apart, the core of human civilization was in ruins, nobody knew if the most powerful general alive was going to turn on everyone else, and the entire Inner Sphere was gearing up for a war that for many would prove to be literally apocalyptic. Honestly, I'd be surprised if the Lyrans would be willing to sell Kerensky machine gun ammo, much less any of the battlecruisers that are the pride of their nation.

Makes sense. The mako was noted as being sold to both sides during the Amaris war and they were quite common. The tharkad however would have been deemed too valuable to sell?

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #16 on: 12 September 2019, 00:56:00 »
Absolutely. Also, I don't think the Makos were sold during the Amaris war - they were probably sold long before that began, when times were still good, and were simply still in service on both sides when war broke out.
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"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
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dgorsman

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #17 on: 12 September 2019, 03:23:44 »
I could see SL crews going to a Lyran naval boneyard, and simply taking what they could get up and running quickly.  Perhaps even some ships the Lyrans were bringing online for themselves.
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Jellico

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #18 on: 12 September 2019, 04:18:52 »
Makos are described as being used as couriers by the SLDF pre war.

A lot were built and a lot were acquired by non Lyrans.

NutritiousSlop

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #19 on: 12 September 2019, 14:45:47 »
Not quite in Society service, but the Mako-class CBS Stone Crab and CBS Ingrid Bucharev were both part of the fleet of the resurrected Clan Burrock during the latter half of the Wars of Reaving, and the Mako-class Fuchida was operated by the bandits under the command of Russou Howell until it was destroyed by the Goliath Scorpions at Waypoint 531.

Came here to post this.  I think it's reasonable to assume that there's more caches like Waypoint 531 out there, and you could make a case for older House-built ships being in the Exodus fleet. 

I could even see an argument that you'd get a weird Periphery ship like a Wagon Wheel that was captured in drydock and pressed into service in the Amaris War, but got used to guard rear areas and convoys in safe areas since it's not very good and repair would be difficult. 

Though I would be curious as to how the Clans would manage a Stefan Amaris-class battleship. 

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #20 on: 12 September 2019, 16:23:54 »
Came here to post this.  I think it's reasonable to assume that there's more caches like Waypoint 531 out there, and you could make a case for older House-built ships being in the Exodus fleet. 

I could even see an argument that you'd get a weird Periphery ship like a Wagon Wheel that was captured in drydock and pressed into service in the Amaris War, but got used to guard rear areas and convoys in safe areas since it's not very good and repair would be difficult. 

Though I would be curious as to how the Clans would manage a Stefan Amaris-class battleship.

Unless it was explicitly stated like for the Luxor and the Amaris class that they were all destroyed I would like for story purposes to have some of a given class out there waiting in a cache

jimdigris

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #21 on: 12 September 2019, 16:25:31 »
I really don't think that anyone needed to raid an old boneyard.  Each major house was required to contribute ships and crews in the normal course of events.  Vessels of all classes were with the SLDF throughout the Star League era and fought under Kerensky during the war to liberate Terra.  Their crews may simply have gotten so accustomed to following Kerensky's lead that they left with him.

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #22 on: 12 September 2019, 16:27:48 »
That's only true at the SLDF's founding. By the coup, it was a completely independent military, there is no evidence it drew units or equipment from member forces.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #23 on: 12 September 2019, 16:29:36 »
I really don't think that anyone needed to raid an old boneyard.  Each major house was required to contribute ships and crews in the normal course of events.  Vessels of all classes were with the SLDF throughout the Star League era and fought under Kerensky during the war to liberate Terra.  Their crews may simply have gotten so accustomed to following Kerensky's lead that they left with him.

Did they have to supply all types of ships? I see a good amount of escort and destroyer types but nothing at the cruiser weight.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #24 on: 13 September 2019, 10:59:25 »
I really don't think that anyone needed to raid an old boneyard.  Each major house was required to contribute ships and crews in the normal course of events.  Vessels of all classes were with the SLDF throughout the Star League era and fought under Kerensky during the war to liberate Terra.  Their crews may simply have gotten so accustomed to following Kerensky's lead that they left with him.


Hmmmm a Tharkad IIc Manned by the diamond sharks “ opening new markets” in Lyran space would have been pretty cool...

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #25 on: 13 September 2019, 11:07:09 »
Came here to post this.  I think it's reasonable to assume that there's more caches like Waypoint 531 out there, and you could make a case for older House-built ships being in the Exodus fleet. 

Waypoint 531 was a Blakist built cache, something designed to be a closer source of resupply for the Blakist led holy war against the Clans.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #26 on: 13 September 2019, 11:24:04 »
Waypoint 531 was a Blakist built cache, something designed to be a closer source of resupply for the Blakist led holy war against the Clans.

The cache in vinton however would fit the bill:    https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vinton

jimdigris

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #27 on: 13 September 2019, 15:58:31 »
That's only true at the SLDF's founding. By the coup, it was a completely independent military, there is no evidence it drew units or equipment from member forces.
By the coup, where did it get it's resources?  Did the member states send cash and simply allow the SLDF quartermaster to do what was necessary?

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #28 on: 13 September 2019, 16:07:15 »
If by sending cash, you mean taxes, then yes.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
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Wotan

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Re: Non SLDF warships which went on exodus?
« Reply #29 on: 13 September 2019, 17:13:02 »
Hegemony taxes were definitely used by the Amaris Empire. I'm not sure what SL taxes the other states had to pay.
SLDF had the Rim Worlds for supplies and used whatever stockpiles they had within the realms of the other states. There was no large industry to support - but their enemy suddenly had it.
There is a reason why that war was horrible in men and material.