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Author Topic: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?  (Read 3567 times)

pixelgeek

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Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« on: 15 September 2019, 21:35:21 »
So I just picked up the paperback of Betrayal of Ideals and while I am only 80 pages into the book I was wondering if anyone else was getting stressed out reading it? Awesome read so far but I keep getting wound up and having to stop every 20 pages

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #1 on: 16 September 2019, 06:58:07 »
It is a tragedy by nature.

Robroy

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #2 on: 16 September 2019, 07:32:17 »
I am sure most authors would be happy to hear their work elicited strong feelings in their readers.

I am the same way when it comes to some "bad guys" that game the system to further their plans and are untouchable by the "good guys" because of it.

In the end, just remember. It is only a work of fiction.

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Sartris

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #3 on: 16 September 2019, 21:39:16 »
it's that lurking dread that you know exactly how things end but have no idea how

pixelgeek

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #4 on: 16 September 2019, 22:04:50 »
it's that lurking dread that you know exactly how things end but have no idea how

I was thinking that same thing today. You know the shit is going to hit the fan but you’re just waiting for it to happen

worktroll

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #5 on: 17 September 2019, 00:14:34 »
Cases in point, the Dark Age for BT, and the Horus Heresy books for W40K.

We know how it gets to where it is, in broad strokes. When the writer makes you care, even despite knowing the end point, and throws in moments of original creation that make you sigh, or go 'aha!', they're doing well. Very well.
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DEZOAT

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2019, 12:03:08 »
 I half say I really love the book or story when it first came out on Battle Corp I print the story out at the time. I read it about 2 to 3 time. I 'am not a Clan fan boy. I' am Steiner fan boy sir. I do agree with worktroll post above me.

pixelgeek

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2019, 12:26:14 »
Was there a Battlecorps story that explained the conflict between the Wolverines and Widowmakers?

Marveryn

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #8 on: 09 October 2019, 14:58:19 »
there was at one point a set of book printed about the clan during exodus made for the german readers.  have those stories ever were translated into English?

Jaim Magnus

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #9 on: 09 October 2019, 16:40:18 »
there was at one point a set of book printed about the clan during exodus made for the german readers.  have those stories ever were translated into English?

That's the Founding of the Clans trilogy. First book will be published for kickstarter backers by the end of the year (probably for everyone else too I'm thinking), with the second some time after that, while the author works on finishing book three.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #10 on: 09 October 2019, 19:03:10 »
That's the Founding of the Clans trilogy. First book will be published for kickstarter backers by the end of the year (probably for everyone else too I'm thinking), with the second some time after that, while the author works on finishing book three.

No kidding? I always wondered how Canon the German stuff was.

But the first time I read Betrayal of Ideals? Yeah, it gave me the willies too.
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And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Frabby

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #11 on: 10 October 2019, 04:12:05 »
Was there a Battlecorps story that explained the conflict between the Wolverines and Widowmakers?
I think you're thinking of the BattleCorps edition of Betrayal of Ideals here. I'm not aware of any other story that delved into that particular subject matter.

there was at one point a set of book printed about the clan during exodus made for the german readers.  have those stories ever were translated into English?
The funny thing is that these stories were written in English (by Randall Bills). But halfway through, FASA shut down and Roc terminated the original novel line, so there was no venue  to publish them. Which presumably is the reason why the third book of the trilogy wasn't written.

However, German BT licensee FanPro didn't care about what FASA or Roc did, and instead launched their own line of all-new German novels. Bills' first two Founding of the Clans novels (Fall from Glory and Visions of Rebirth) were translated and published as part of that line, as was Chris Hartford's Fall from Grace, another story originally written in English but only published in its German translation because only FanPro Germany still produced new novels at the time.
Both Fall from Grace and Fall from Glory would be released in English much later via BattleCorps. Visions of Rebirth remains a German-only book as of this writing even though there is an original English manuscript out there.

That's the Founding of the Clans trilogy. First book will be published for kickstarter backers by the end of the year (probably for everyone else too I'm thinking), with the second some time after that, while the author works on finishing book three.
No kidding? I always wondered how Canon the German stuff was.
It's not Canon under Herb Beas' still-valid definition of Canon. As official products, Sarna considers them apocryphal. Which is to say, any canon publication can disregard them but as long as no other canon contradicts it, you can assume stuff happened as described therein.

The original German material wasn't translated (save for parts of Ronin! which were incorporated into Brush Wars). Without a translation, there is a language barrier for the predominantly English-speaking BT authors - they cannot incorporate or heed information from sources that they cannot read or understand, so these sources aren't considered canon by default.
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Marveryn

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #12 on: 10 October 2019, 04:59:23 »
back to the subject at hand after finally finishing the book as I wasn't a battlecorp member and didn't keep up with the original run.  I actually enjoy the story and if feel bad that it was a smaller group that survive the purge.  It did help clear a bit of some of the backstory of the clan and since had no problem with the "reconned" as it seem to fall into place properly.  Come on we are speaking of a man that decided that instead of creating a nation base of Star League ideal he would instead create a force base on animal totem.  of course he would suffer from a god complex and it made sense the needed something for the younger generation to believe in his ideal so they would slip back into the old ways.  Now we need to the story of how those widowmaker kill him at the end. 

beachhead1985

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #13 on: 11 October 2019, 10:23:25 »
I think you're thinking of the BattleCorps edition of Betrayal of Ideals here. I'm not aware of any other story that delved into that particular subject matter.

The funny thing is that these stories were written in English (by Randall Bills). But halfway through, FASA shut down and Roc terminated the original novel line, so there was no venue  to publish them. Which presumably is the reason why the third book of the trilogy wasn't written.

However, German BT licensee FanPro didn't care about what FASA or Roc did, and instead launched their own line of all-new German novels. Bills' first two Founding of the Clans novels (Fall from Glory and Visions of Rebirth) were translated and published as part of that line, as was Chris Hartford's Fall from Grace, another story originally written in English but only published in its German translation because only FanPro Germany still produced new novels at the time.

Both Fall from Grace and Fall from Glory would be released in English much later via BattleCorps. Visions of Rebirth remains a German-only book as of this writing even though there is an original English manuscript out there.
No kidding? I always wondered how Canon the German stuff was.

It's not Canon under Herb Beas' still-valid definition of Canon. As official products, Sarna considers them apocryphal. Which is to say, any canon publication can disregard them but as long as no other canon contradicts it, you can assume stuff happened as described therein.

The original German material wasn't translated (save for parts of Ronin! which were incorporated into Brush Wars). Without a translation, there is a language barrier for the predominantly English-speaking BT authors - they cannot incorporate or heed information from sources that they cannot read or understand, so these sources aren't considered canon by default.

Wait...I had read the Battlecorps version when it first came out. Are their significant differences between that and the print release?

The English-German thing is wild!!! I had no idea and the first two were on BC back in the day, huh? Wow. I never connected those dots.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Frabby

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #14 on: 11 October 2019, 11:42:34 »
There are three versions of Betrayal of Ideals - may I refer you to the Sarna article for details.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #15 on: 12 October 2019, 11:15:53 »
There are three versions of Betrayal of Ideals - may I refer you to the Sarna article for details.

Wow! I had no idea! Man, I sure feel like I got best value with having the POD version! More content is always best!
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Sartris

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #16 on: 12 October 2019, 16:52:54 »
i had never heard of the con-exclusive version. did it have a different cover?

Frabby

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Re: Is Betrayal of Ideals meant to invoke anxiety?
« Reply #17 on: 12 October 2019, 17:33:34 »
i had never heard of the con-exclusive version. did it have a different cover?
No difference that I'm aware of.
I got one, and was very surprised to find out later that the Epub/PoD version (which I don't have) is 20 pages longer and contains all new and old prologue and epilogues.
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