Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)

[Daryk]

Oooo… four wheel steering too! (Unless, of course, it's SIX wheel steering!)  :thumbsup:

[ANS Kamas P81]

It's Panhard, if it's anything like the AMX-10RC it's skid steering.  At least the ERC-90 had proper turning. 

Idly on the topic of the AMX-10RC i have the most terrible idea...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAHAT

Imagine little armored cars hiding in the bush lobbing those in support of infantry.  You'd need smoothbores instead of the AMX's rifled barrel, but still!

[worktroll]

Meanwhile the French just freaking love their 6x6 zoomies and I adore them for it.  Shine on, vous diamant fou.

Not just 6x6:


Panhard EBR


AMX-10 RC (okay, it is 6x6, but I still love the look)


Even the Italian Centauro.

And while not armoured, something which desperately needs to be canonised in BT: The Alvis Stalwart. Straight from the pages of Gerry Anderson, to you!

[Kidd]

And while not armoured, something which desperately needs to be canonised in BT: The Alvis Stalwart. Straight from the pages of Gerry Anderson, to you!

What about it?

Idly on the topic of the AMX-10RC i have the most terrible idea...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAHAT

Imagine little armored cars hiding in the bush lobbing those in support of infantry.  You'd need smoothbores instead of the AMX's rifled barrel, but still!

Modern ATGMs are better. Especially non-LOS Fire and Forget types.

[ANS Kamas P81]

And while not armoured, something which desperately needs to be canonised in BT: The Alvis Stalwart. Straight from the pages of Gerry Anderson, to you!

There's one in the Mechwarrior RPG 1st edition, a "prime mover" in the color plates.  Sure as pants looks like it.

Also have the Stewart's modern cousin, the Patria Pasi, a Battletech-schoolbus-APC!  (seriously 18 guys in that thing)

[Cannonshop]

There's one in the Mechwarrior RPG 1st edition, a "prime mover" in the color plates.  Sure as pants looks like it.

Also have the Stewart's modern cousin, the Patria Pasi, a Battletech-schoolbus-APC!  (seriously 18 guys in that thing)

to me, it looks like a Fuchs.

[kato]

to me, it looks like a Fuchs.

Concurrent development for the same purpose.

Difference is mostly that the original XA-180 is horribly underpowered compared to the Fuchs, which in combination with the 70cm longer chassis results in considerably more space inside. There's a late 90s reworked model (XA-188, the Dutch export model) which has a bigger engine.

[grimlock1]

Does anyone know where I could find training materials for enemy armored vehicles, circa WWII?  I'm trying to show someone that at a distance, and working from the limited information given in the Army's 6-8 week tanker course, a Panzer IV and a Tiger look an awful lot alike.  Especially when they are shooting at you!

[Dave Talley]

here is a quick reference
http://www.dererstezug.com/panzeridentification.htm

but yah especially if the panzer 3 or 4 was wearing shurtzen its an easy mistake

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Especially if its turret was pointing more or less in your direction.

[Dave Talley]

Anything bigger than a rifle aimed at me is a Tiger 😝

[Fat Guy]

Sadly, to the average person all WWII German tanks were Tigers.

[Fat Guy]

Google found me both in the same picture!

[Daryk]

How much does that Patria Pasi weigh?  18 troops is 3, 6-trooper squads...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Google found me both in the same picture!

Yeah, in a fight you're generally not going to take the time to notice the differences.  It's the turret that really sets them a part more  than the body.

[Daryk]

The track widths would seem to be a dead giveaway...

[Simon Landmine]

The track widths would seem to be a dead giveaway...

When they're side to side ... but if you were just looking at one, and there was smoke or undergrowth making working out the scale and range difficult, I can see that it would be difficult in a hurry!

[marauder648]

Indeed, factor in the stress of combat etc and mistaking a Panzer IV for a Tiger would be an easy mistake to make.

[grimlock1]

Anything bigger than a rifle aimed at me is a Tiger 😝

Yes, that is a "significant emotional event."

Sadly, to the average person all WWII German tanks were Tigers.

  I've been binging the Chieftan's videos lately and Nicholas Moran makes a very similar point. 

How long/intensive was tank school in WWII?

[Empyrus]

How much does that Patria Pasi weigh?  18 troops is 3, 6-trooper squads...

Original is 12 tons, upgraded variants are 13.5 tons. Pretty much paper thin armor though.

Interestingly the newer Patria AMV weighs more (16t or more depending on the variant) but carries less troopers (up to 12).

[ANS Kamas P81]

Anyone got good info on tanks in the jungle?  WWII, Korea, Vietnam, I'm sure there's got to be some good reading about how well they performed.

[Cache]

And while not armoured, something which desperately needs to be canonised in BT: The Alvis Stalwart. Straight from the pages of Gerry Anderson, to you!

They're not far off: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sherpa

I'll have to check out the old MW RPG reference.

[Charlie 6]

Anyone got good info on tanks in the jungle?  WWII, Korea, Vietnam, I'm sure there's got to be some good reading about how well they performed.

Slim's, "Defeat into Victory" has both his theories on employment as well as a humorous example of combined arms or at least getting too close to a combined arms fight.  Regarding tanks, I took from him, "use them together or lose them separately."

[Daryk]

Original is 12 tons, upgraded variants are 13.5 tons. Pretty much paper thin armor though.

Interestingly the newer Patria AMV weighs more (16t or more depending on the variant) but carries less troopers (up to 12).

Cool... I did up 15-ton, 1 platoon capacity APCs down in the design forum...

[Failure16]

Anyone got good info on tanks in the jungle?  WWII, Korea, Vietnam, I'm sure there's got to be some good reading about how well they performed.

Tank Sergeant by Ralph Zumbro
Hundred Miles of Bad Road by Dwight Birdwell and Kieth Nolan
Into Cambodia and Search and Destroy by Kieth Nolan

I'm sure I have more on my shelves, but those stick out most profoundly to me.

[chanman]

Tank Sergeant by Ralph Zumbro
Hundred Miles of Bad Road by Dwight Birdwell and Kieth Nolan
Into Cambodia and Search and Destroy by Kieth Nolan

I'm sure I have more on my shelves, but those stick out most profoundly to me.

Ralph Zumbro's Tank Aces also has several vignettes of tankers in jungle in WW2 and Vietnam

[Failure16]

Good catch. Must have slipped by my fingers.

Fiction, but David Drake wrote several stories collated in The Military Dimension [Mark II] that are formulated around the 11th ACR. They give a good basis of how the actual soldiers saw things and operated on a day-to-day level. Worth checking out, I think.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I'll take a look.  I'm still working on that one fictional nation's army, just as far as projects go, but I wondered just how useful tanks are in that situation.  And to be fair it's not like "thick impenetrable jungle" is going to be everywhere, there's always paths and roads and civilized areas that will be considerations - otherwise, if there's nothing and nobody there, who's fighting over it?

Have a WIP that I'm not looking forward to making the tracks for.

[chanman]

I'll take a look.  I'm still working on that one fictional nation's army, just as far as projects go, but I wondered just how useful tanks are in that situation.  And to be fair it's not like "thick impenetrable jungle" is going to be everywhere, there's always paths and roads and civilized areas that will be considerations - otherwise, if there's nothing and nobody there, who's fighting over it?

Have a WIP that I'm not looking forward to making the tracks for.

If a tank can get there, are any friendlies going to say no to the tactical options a tank provides? Look at the workout the Canadian, Danish, and Dutch Leopard IIs have gotten in Afghanistan, another stereotypical 'not tank country' AO.

[truetanker]

Well do they, the tanks, have to drive there...

Just sayin' [spoiler]cough... helo... cough...[/spoiler]

TT