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Author Topic: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)  (Read 1684 times)

God and Davion

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Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« on: 19 September 2019, 13:54:59 »
And here we go with the next version.

An unique Porsche:



The dents in the hull are actual gun tests. I could get a finger inside and there was more armor remaining.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #1 on: 19 September 2019, 14:59:46 »
That's the beauty of sloped armor.

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #2 on: 19 September 2019, 15:18:29 »
That's the beauty of sloped armor.
That and the armor being as thick as a cinder block to start with.
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hoosierhick

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #3 on: 19 September 2019, 15:39:57 »
I really enjoyed the "Inside The Chieftain's Hatch" episode on the Maus, even if it's just a big empty steel box inside.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #4 on: 19 September 2019, 15:52:46 »

Panzer V Panther tank is unamused by your Title.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #5 on: 19 September 2019, 16:35:51 »
That and the armor being as thick as a cinder block to start with.

That too.

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truetanker

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #6 on: 19 September 2019, 16:55:13 »


A modern Battletech Tiger!

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David CGB

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #7 on: 19 September 2019, 17:04:59 »

Panzer V Panther tank is unamused by your Title.
Nice pic
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worktroll

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #8 on: 19 September 2019, 17:28:45 »


I say, chaps! Spiffing tank!
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hoosierhick

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #9 on: 19 September 2019, 18:07:26 »


I say, chaps! Spiffing tank!

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Daryk

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #10 on: 19 September 2019, 18:59:07 »
I like the second one better...  ;D

truetanker

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #11 on: 19 September 2019, 19:21:12 »


I say, chaps! Spiffing tank!

" Now where did I park that bloody thing, say chap have you seen my tank? "

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Charlie 6

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #12 on: 19 September 2019, 19:28:59 »


I say, chaps! Spiffing tank!
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Matti

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #13 on: 20 September 2019, 00:05:02 »


I say, chaps! Spiffing tank!
Little more forward, and that thing's gonna tilt down real fast. Gonna be joy for the crew inside, especially if burning hot engine block isn't fenced.
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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #14 on: 20 September 2019, 03:28:51 »
A British historian, Ben Wheatley, analysed German Luftwaffe aerial photos of the Prokhorovka battlefield, taken on 14-16 July, when the area was still in German hands. The photos were found in the US National Archives at College Park, Maryland. Wheatley's assessment, backed by detailed study of battle reports and historical archives, is that on 12 July the Germans lost just five Panzer IV tanks at Prokhorovka, but decimated "kamikaze" Soviet tank formations, destroying more than 200 Soviet tanks.  He writes that dozens of Soviet T-34 tanks tumbled into an anti-tank ditch 4.5m (15ft) deep, dug by Soviet infantry, and when the Red Army realised its mistake other T-34s started queuing up to cross a bridge. German tanks were easily able to pick them off at the bridge.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48963295

More details here

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16161262.2019.1606545


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Garrand

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #15 on: 20 September 2019, 09:17:33 »
From the previous thread:

Quote
What M7 are you talking about?  The only one I'm aware of was an intended replacement to the M3/M5 Stuart.  Compared to the M4 it had only marginally better speed with the same main gun and markedly inferior armor.

Perhaps the M7 heavy tank. IIRC around 100 built before it was discontinued. Had the same 3in gun as in the M10 tank destroyer. I think it's arguable that it was a better tank than the Sherman. While the armament was better than the initial Shermans, just about everything else was antiquated. There's a reason why it was discontinued & development continued until we got the M26 Pershing.

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Fat Guy

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #16 on: 20 September 2019, 10:54:12 »
The heavy tank you're thinking of is the M6:



The M7 was a medium tank with the Sherman's armament and the Stuart's speed (at least that was the plan  ;)):

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #17 on: 20 September 2019, 11:33:05 »
And the M6 didn't use the same gun as the M10- that was the T1 Heavy tank.  By the time the T1 had been redesignated the M6, its gun had been upgraded from a 76mm to a 90mm, the same gun used by the M36 and M26.

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #18 on: 20 September 2019, 13:23:22 »
Watching one of Nick Moran's recent videos, the one on autoloaders specifically, and he mentioned something interesting.  French tank companies with the LeClerc's 3 man crew supposedly keep a couple APCs around to haul two squads of "spare tankers" around to help the company with security, maintenance, and whatever.  Does anyone know more about this?  Any thoughts on the idea of attaching a couple squads of actual infantry directly to a tank company, probably as part of the HQ?  You'd end up with a four-troop squadron as far as cavalry goes, with 2 tanks (squadron commander and bodyguard/SIC) and 2 APCs, then three four-tank troops for the rest of the unit.

It strikes me as something doable, but it's also mixing units REALLY low in the TOE which isn't something typically done, I understand.  Was curious whether it's true or not (Moran said he hadn't been able to confirm it) and what the consensus is on the idea.

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Kidd

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #19 on: 20 September 2019, 13:26:00 »
I've been playing Battletech too long, I have a bias towards vehicles which look kinda like BT style tanks

Korean K30 Biho self-propelled AA vehicle, twin 30mm radar/EO-guided cannons and Chiron MANPAD SAM pods on either side








but it's also mixing units REALLY low in the TOE which isn't something typically done, I understand.

The French love doing that though. They pull platoons from different regiments to form company groups and expect them to co-operate.
« Last Edit: 20 September 2019, 13:29:30 by Kidd »

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #20 on: 20 September 2019, 14:05:06 »
I've been playing Battletech too long, I have a bias towards vehicles which look kinda like BT style tanks
On that note, looks like the Bimpty's gotten some upgrades.

The French love doing that though. They pull platoons from different regiments to form company groups and expect them to co-operate.
I guess if you're playing really small-unit games where you're expecting a single company or battalion to do its thing.  I mean, I get that rises in lethality and effectiveness mean you can do more with smaller sized forces, but there's gotta be a minimum capacity somewhere, right?  This isn't Battletech...(yet)

I'm just beating around some ideas trying to come up with an army structure for a fictional country, anyone interested?
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #21 on: 20 September 2019, 14:09:10 »

I guess if you're playing really small-unit games where you're expecting a single company or battalion to do its thing.  I mean, I get that rises in lethality and effectiveness mean you can do more with smaller sized forces, but there's gotta be a minimum capacity somewhere, right?  This isn't Battletech...(yet)

I'm just beating around some ideas trying to come up with an army structure for a fictional country, anyone interested?


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Wereling

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #22 on: 20 September 2019, 14:10:10 »
I'm just beating around some ideas trying to come up with an army structure for a fictional country, anyone interested?

How big is the country?

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #23 on: 20 September 2019, 14:49:55 »
I suppose I'll split things off then and start a new thread.

Meanwhile, looks like the Estonians are getting tanks of some sort.

...of some sort...
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Kidd

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #24 on: 20 September 2019, 14:56:25 »
I guess if you're playing really small-unit games where you're expecting a single company or battalion to do its thing.  I mean, I get that rises in lethality and effectiveness mean you can do more with smaller sized forces, but there's gotta be a minimum capacity somewhere, right?  This isn't Battletech...(yet)
It's... controversial.

Not so much on lethality per se, as coordination and networking. It means you train people to be more accommodating of working with others - no "we do it this way in this regiment" bullshit - and mentally, units are both more independent and prepared to function as a whole. Yes it means you can piece together broken units and task organise faster.

But why is there a need to do this? Is it a "solution" looking for a problem, or a solution for an unstated problem? And what havoc does this play with one's logistics?

Quote

I'm just beating around some ideas trying to come up with an army structure for a fictional country, anyone interested?
Make the thread, count me in

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #26 on: 20 September 2019, 16:03:45 »
Thread's made, debate away, I'm curious to see where it goes.



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Daryk

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #27 on: 20 September 2019, 18:04:10 »
*Snip*
It strikes me as something doable, but it's also mixing units REALLY low in the TOE which isn't something typically done, I understand.  Was curious whether it's true or not (Moran said he hadn't been able to confirm it) and what the consensus is on the idea.
*snip*
My thoughts on the idea are probably best summarized here.

And I'll look for your other thread once I wade through the forum...  :thumbsup:

CDAT

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #28 on: 21 September 2019, 00:21:46 »
From last thread
When I was in Iraq there was a few abandoned BMP-1's on our base and my unit had a bit of a giggle trying to debus from BMP's. To say they are tight is an understatement and the doors at the back are tiny, especially as the guys were use to Warrior's. And don't forget on the BMP-1, those back doors are also fuel tanks for additional 'fun'.
When I was in Iraq the first time, my unit took a BMP-1 as the unit war trophy, but before we could ship it home one of the unit NBC NCO's had to clear that all the radioactive dials and such had been pulled out. I was the one who got tasked with this, and it was very tight getting into some of the locations to check. I had to kind of squeeze in to the drivers compartment, there was no way that I would be able to get in enough to drive.

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #29 on: 21 September 2019, 00:35:32 »
On that note, looks like the Bimpty's gotten some upgrades.
I guess if you're playing really small-unit games where you're expecting a single company or battalion to do its thing.  I mean, I get that rises in lethality and effectiveness mean you can do more with smaller sized forces, but there's gotta be a minimum capacity somewhere, right?  This isn't Battletech...(yet)
I recall seeing a video (maybe from Nicholas Moran?) where it is explained that an American PBI unit (company size?) in Normandy was supported by 1 Sherman. So yeah, that sounds about BattleTech scale to me.
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