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Author Topic: Salvage from Misery  (Read 932 times)

Precentor Scorpio

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Salvage from Misery
« on: 19 September 2019, 19:05:28 »
Because of the losses suffered by both the DCMS and the Wolf Dragoons; then the start of the 4th Succession War, what is everyone's opinion about the salvage operations on Misery during the 4th Succession War.  I think Com Star (ROM or their lackeys) could have easily removed some mechs from Misery during the 4th Succession War. 
So, my question is would ROM have made the effort to try to obtain an Imp, or Annihilator, or a Shogun?  My answer is yes. 
The other question is how easy is it to obtain military salvage after a large battle?

Daryk

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #1 on: 19 September 2019, 19:19:47 »
First question: I don't see why not!

Second question: that depends entirely on the force holding the field, and their ability to ID "authorized" salvage teams after surviving battle...

snakespinner

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #2 on: 19 September 2019, 21:45:00 »
The Wolves won, they salvaged what they could.
But in the situation mechs could have been overlooked.
Comstar could easily bribe some DC officials to allow them to take some mechs.
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Nav_Alpha

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #3 on: 19 September 2019, 22:16:44 »
Firstly, ComStar and the Word have always been the masters of data manipulation and working into the shadows. They made multiple planets vanish for crying out loud.
So, why not? Hack the DCMS computers to ensure specific salvage is diverted to Depot Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot, which just happens to be a ComStar site.

Also, ComStar has had a long running fascination with the Dragoons since their appearance. So, why wouldn’t they be interested?


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Frabby

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #4 on: 20 September 2019, 01:16:36 »
As has been pointed out, Wolf's Dragoons held the field and would have salvaged everything that could be reached. They had total control over the battlefield(s) and the entire world, even including installing their own satellite network. ComStar isn't getting near any salvage here until the Wolf's Dragoons pack up and leave.

It wasn't until much later that House Kurita could begin their own salvage operations. It says somewhere (iirc) that they eventually recovered many 'Mechs from the bottom of the sea that had fallen down there in the first encounter when the Dragoons blew up the ice as the Kuritas charged at them. Most of that salvage would've been Kurita 'Mechs. Only a few individual Dragoons had previously lost in the duels, leaving their 'Mechs on the ice.
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Wotan

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #5 on: 20 September 2019, 01:44:26 »
Imp and Annihilators are fascinating for Comstar and they will definitely look for a chance to get one. The Shogun on the other hand was a regular design back in the days of the SL. It is possible, that one of them can be found in the storage on Terra.

Ogra_Chief

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #6 on: 20 September 2019, 15:23:45 »
Because of the losses suffered by both the DCMS and the Wolf Dragoons; then the start of the 4th Succession War, what is everyone's opinion about the salvage operations on Misery during the 4th Succession War.  I think Com Star (ROM or their lackeys) could have easily removed some mechs from Misery during the 4th Succession War. 
So, my question is would ROM have made the effort to try to obtain an Imp, or Annihilator, or a Shogun?  My answer is yes. 
The other question is how easy is it to obtain military salvage after a large battle?

Just some counter-thoughts. ComStar would be more interested in where the mechs came from rather than the mechs themselves. ComStar had Star League (SL) era tech, and while maybe offering further insight it was a technology they understood. Many observers, to include intelligence services and academics, knew some of Wolf's Dragoon's (WD) mech were SL ere designs and many lost. What most were interested in, to include ComStar, was the Where? Because, the implication, rightly so, indicated a connection to the vanished SLDF. The salvaged tech while prized by even the Successor States, would have likely been little more than junk or as an oddities to ComStar's technical base. As I understand it the WD's downgraded most of their equipment early on and only a select few units were outfitted with SL tech at any onetime if ever, till the Clan Invasion? So, salvage would only be valuable to ROM if it led to the WD's origins.

Or, am I off?
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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #7 on: 20 September 2019, 19:08:38 »
The Annihilator is listed as developed by the SL prior to the Amaris coup. Shouldn't the design still be in Comstar records?

Daryk

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #8 on: 20 September 2019, 19:21:54 »
By that rationale: yes, definitely.

Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #9 on: 20 September 2019, 21:24:59 »
Could be that the WD version was an improved design, since it didn't say that the SL ever put it in production. In that case, Comstar would want to know about it.

Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #10 on: 20 September 2019, 22:44:58 »
I'm thinking ROM would try to smuggle some of the Wolf Dragoons mechs off planet.  But i think less than a company worth. (My ComGuard division has two Imps, so my justification is salvage from Misery)

So, would it make sense for a down on it luck merc unit do an objective raid to grab some salvage either for itself or for a corporation.

Lets say three months after Misery, do you think an objective raid might yield something?  The Dragoons are gone now.  Maybe the planetary militia is responsible for security and salvage ops.

Just trying to think of a possible scenario
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snakespinner

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #11 on: 20 September 2019, 23:35:40 »
Remember WD has been fielding those mechs in the IS since 3005.
They have lost many including during the Marik civil war and the attack on Hesperus.
There has been many opportunities for comstar to grab some especially in the FWL.

So yes they may have found some on Misery after the WD left but there were so many other places to pick them up.
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.RL

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #12 on: 20 September 2019, 23:39:42 »
Hypothetically speaking, if Wolf's Dragoons holds the field, and during their salvage operations they find a 'Mech which is too far gone to salvage, but has technology/database which they do not want to fall in the wrong hands, wouldn't they at the very minimum strip those components, and/or demolition the remains of it?
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snakespinner

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #13 on: 21 September 2019, 02:36:25 »
You would never destroy the remains if salvage was possible.
Mechs that are too badly damaged would be stripped of anything useful.
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Wotan

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #14 on: 21 September 2019, 05:25:21 »
IIRC it was hinted several times that the WD carefully refuse any salvage to opponents. They more often destroy downed mechs than let them be salvaged from their enemies.
That said the Annihilator must be a headache for Comstar. Most likely they have data of it being developed by the SLDF but never produced (as far as the IS know). First Annihilator were produced by the SLDF in exile. So if Comstar trust his own data, they have to know that WD are in some way heirs to Kerensky and that they know what happened to the SLDF.

RifleMech

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #15 on: 21 September 2019, 07:07:33 »
Then again Comstar's files on the Annihilator could be incomplete. Earth and the rest of the Hegemony did suffer a lot of damage. They did think that the Imp was a lost Star League design. For all Comstar knew the Annihilator, was produced at the same place where the Dragoons found the rest of their lost mechs. 

Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #16 on: 21 September 2019, 15:10:19 »
The Annihilator was said to be in development. Could mean that not all the details had been worked out, so ComStar would want the rest of the design. The Imp might have been in the files as an idea, but no design details because none had been worked out.

Kovax

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #17 on: 23 September 2019, 13:12:11 »
I'm thinking ROM would try to smuggle some of the Wolf Dragoons mechs off planet.  But i think less than a company worth. (My ComGuard division has two Imps, so my justification is salvage from Misery)
"Possible", but highly unlikely.  If anything can be recovered, The Dragoons will make sure it is recovered, or stripped and rendered unusable.  You MIGHT piece one 'Mech together from the parts of two, assuming that two of such a rare and valuable item were abandoned as unrecoverable, but two is REALLY pushing it.  By "less than a company worth", that would include all tonnages, and Assaults are rare enough as it is.  Assuming that whole two lances of 'Mech salvage are somehow left behind AFTER extensive recovery operations (which is already highly unlikely, 2-3 'Mechs seems more realistic), the rarity of assaults would probably mean only one assault in the whole bunch, if any, which MIGHT be an Imp, or could be something 80-95 tons.  Then you have to assume that the DCMS will need to lose track of those salvaged 'Mechs in order for Comstar to sneak them off the planet.

It's your game, and you can do as you like, but I find the likelihood of an Imp in a ComStar force to be unlikely enough as it is, but two is stretching credibility pretty hard.

RifleMech

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #18 on: 24 September 2019, 02:04:44 »
I can't see Comstar fielding an Imp. If they somehow got their hands on one, it'd be in some research facility being taken apart to be studied and maybe copied. Fielding it openly just invites retribution from the Dragoons.

Frabby

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #19 on: 24 September 2019, 03:53:13 »
Liao forces recovered a Dragoon 'Mech (a Hornet or a Hussar I think) at some point during the Dragoons' first employment with House Davion, right after their appearance in the Inner Sphere. The Liao techs determined it was a recently-built 'Mech not from any factory they knew, and of remarkably high quality and tech.
ComStar didn't flip out, nor steal the 'Mech.
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Robroy

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #20 on: 24 September 2019, 04:48:19 »
I want to say that they did get their hands on some WD salvage from somewhere. Might have been in a side bar, not sure which source book.

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Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #21 on: 24 September 2019, 10:54:38 »
The Com Guard division is/would be deployed on Tukayyid for Convention games and of course during the Jihad as either WOB or Com Guards depending on the scenario.  So, its a lot easier to justify the Imp in the 3060's and 3070's.





Colt Ward

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Re: Salvage from Misery
« Reply #22 on: 24 September 2019, 12:58:15 »
No, taking a whole mech is too large/long of a operation . . . as someone said, ComStar wanted to know where the Dragoons came from and how they got the advanced tech- now getting component information can achieve that goal, but that means photos or copied drives- whole components are the last resort.  One of the primary goals of intelligence operations (unless you are Stirling Archer) is learning something the other side did not want you to know, without them knowing you know.

Also you have to remember the conditions on planet and the remote nature of the battlefields- takes some effort to stay alive in that cold/wind, then you have to wait for the shooting to stop, avoid Dragoon security patrols, avoid Dragoon techs salvaging, and get to the battlefield undetected in the first place.  A snowmobile is going to say 'SHOOT ME' to Dragoon or Lyran scouts/patrols that are screening the main body or salvaging efforts.

Now, one thing ComStar's R&D could have done was try to recreate the Dragoon's Imp from records to get an idea what it would take for a group to create the design based on the expectations of the Dragoon's capability.  Sort of like the NAIS was hand-building Clan ER Lasers in the mid-3050s.
« Last Edit: 24 September 2019, 13:00:30 by Colt Ward »
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