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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!  (Read 21734 times)

chanman

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #780 on: 07 February 2020, 04:01:07 »
Speaking of Italian ships, how about the Tripoli, a very light torpedo cruiser from the pre-dreadnought era?


Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #781 on: 07 February 2020, 05:14:51 »
Looks more like they just attempted to duplicate it based on photographs.
Looks more like a copy of the Brittish WWI "monitors" to me... :-\

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #782 on: 07 February 2020, 05:29:53 »
Looks more like a copy of the Brittish WWI "monitors" to me... :-\

Parallel evolution. You have a steam-powered screw vessel, and you have one big gun. Get rid of the masts, and put in one big turret. Italians had very large guns - up to 17" pre WW1 - but very short ranged, very inaccurate, sometimes muzzle-loaded - like all very big guns at that time. The excessively low freeboard was to minimise target profile - at that point, gun duels were at Napoleonic ranges of 1,000-2,000 yards, direct fire, no plunging fire.

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #783 on: 07 February 2020, 11:07:33 »
Speaking of Italian ships, how about the Tripoli, a very light torpedo cruiser from the pre-dreadnought era?



Put some little thingies out to the side and that would be a very sleek Leviathans ship . . .
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #784 on: 10 February 2020, 00:01:28 »
Tucker Class Torpedo Destroyers, 315 foot long ships weighting 1,050 tons.  Her maximum speed by design was 29 knots.



There must have been some brave men sailing these ships.  They looked like they were very cramped and dangerous to serving on during combat.
I can imagine that the Engine rooms if i read right, were downright boiling hot.

The image is the Tucker herself doing trials, her weapons aren't mounted yet.  She would server during world war 1, along with her other 5 sister ships with the Jacob Jones being lost during the war.  She would be used as coast guard cutter enforcing the rum probition which eventually would be appealed in 1933.  She and others ships were put in reserve and scrapped by later 30s.
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chanman

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #785 on: 10 February 2020, 00:53:03 »
Tucker Class Torpedo Destroyers, 315 foot long ships weighting 1,050 tons.  Her maximum speed by design was 29 knots.



There must have been some brave men sailing these ships.  They looked like they were very cramped and dangerous to serving on during combat.
I can imagine that the Engine rooms if i read right, were downright boiling hot.

The image is the Tucker herself doing trials, her weapons aren't mounted yet.  She would server during world war 1, along with her other 5 sister ships with the Jacob Jones being lost during the war.  She would be used as coast guard cutter enforcing the rum probition which eventually would be appealed in 1933.  She and others ships were put in reserve and scrapped by later 30s.

Early destroyers were dangerous outside of combat too. Frail, lightly-built ships with abysmal livability and poor seakeeping.

Speaking of early-ish ships, here's the HMS Glasgow, one of the 1910 Town-class light cruisers

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #786 on: 11 February 2020, 17:12:40 »
They were interned at Scapa Flow pending a final decision as to what to do with them, as per the terms of the Armistice. The German Admiral, apparently concerned that they would be seized and divided among the Allied fleets, decided to scuttle them instead.
That wasn't only a concern of the German admiralty, but the most likely outcome of the Paris Peace Conference. The British wanted to avoid it as well, but the French and the Italians were pressing hard to each receive a quarter of the German High Seas Fleet. That would have cost the British most of their edge over their allies. No surprise, that some British admirals were quite happy about the scuttling of the German fleet. It took out one of the largest threats to British dominance over the seas and ensured that the French, Italians and - of course - Germans were no match ever again for the RN.
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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #787 on: 11 February 2020, 17:46:10 »
A bit of a look . . . USS Indiana, BB-1 . . .

Image from Library of Congress-


Her sister ship, BB-2 Oregon-


Built in Philly, the Indiana participated in the Spanish-American War with her sister Oregon as part of the actions around Cuba and credited with part of the sinking of two Spanish destroyers.



This is a picture of one of the destroyers before it was sunk.

The ships were later used for training since they were quickly outdated and finally as aerial target practice.
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #788 on: 11 February 2020, 17:46:23 »
This is the next generation of German cruisers btw:



They're basically identical in size to an Arleigh Burke or Tico, at similar price (1.315 billion Euro per ship currently). Are laid out as bigger cousins to the F125 "colonial cruisers" functionally - basically offering the same capability and capacity, but adding in additional weapons (VLS*), flexible modules for mission-specific capabilities (ASW, MCM, MIO, ELINT...) and ice class 1C to broaden their global usability.

Four ships ordered with options for two more. Will basically replace the F123 frigates from around 2026 on, when those reach their 30-year service life.

* they will also carry the 8 next-generation NSM and 2 21-cell RAM as well as 127mm gun of the F125.

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #789 on: 11 February 2020, 17:57:44 »
This is the next generation of German cruisers btw:



They're basically identical in size to an Arleigh Burke or Tico, at similar price (1.315 billion Euro per ship currently). Are laid out as bigger cousins to the F125 "colonial cruisers" functionally - basically offering the same capability and capacity, but adding in additional weapons (VLS*), flexible modules for mission-specific capabilities (ASW, MCM, MIO, ELINT...) and ice class 1C to broaden their global usability.

Four ships ordered with options for two more. Will basically replace the F123 frigates from around 2026 on, when those reach their 30-year service life.

* they will also carry the 8 next-generation NSM and 2 21-cell RAM as well as 127mm gun of the F125.


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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #790 on: 11 February 2020, 21:23:29 »
Cruiser?  I'm surprised they didn't stick with "destroyer"...

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #791 on: 12 February 2020, 01:16:15 »
Cruiser?  I'm surprised they didn't stick with "destroyer"...
The current official moniker is "multi-purpose combat ship" (=MKS). The project was originally for new corvettes, then renamed "Medium Surface Combat Unit", then became this.

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #792 on: 12 February 2020, 03:20:39 »
Cruiser?  I'm surprised they didn't stick with "destroyer"...

IIRC Germany avoids the Destroyer tag they have an air defence frigate an ASW Frigate and a GP Frigate

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #793 on: 12 February 2020, 05:50:26 »
Ah, makes sense... thank you, gentlemen!  :thumbsup:

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #794 on: 12 February 2020, 12:17:06 »
IIRC Germany avoids the Destroyer tag they have an air defence frigate an ASW Frigate and a GP Frigate
Nah, we used to have multiple destroyer ("Zerstörer") series - the Fletchers bought from the US, the Hamburg class, the Lütjens class...

We just call everything frigates nowadays. Even our corvettes have frigate (F) NATO pennants.

Sizewise it's a simple evolution:
F120 class - 2800t
F121 class - not procured
F122 class - 3700t
F123 class - 4900t
F124 class - 5800t
F125 class - 7200t
->MKS180 - 9000t

F121 in 1962 was a similar project that spiraled upwards. Originally this was planned as the K130 class with boats displacing about 1250t. They renamed them to frigates when the planned armament doubled the required size, then later added the same weight again. Was cancelled when they saw that they'd have to enlarge the design again to add helos.

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #795 on: 12 February 2020, 14:55:41 »
Frigate is so much less scary than a Destroyer.
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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #796 on: 12 February 2020, 15:24:44 »
HMS Duncan on escort duty

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #797 on: 12 February 2020, 22:48:30 »
IIRC Germany avoids the Destroyer tag they have an air defence frigate an ASW Frigate and a GP Frigate
Why?  They had 3 US-build made for Germany Charles F Adams-Class DDG-2 Destroyers in their fleet for decades until like the 90s.
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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #798 on: 12 February 2020, 22:54:27 »
Anyays, i was working on a project i came across some interesting things about USS Atlanta CL-104.

She ways was Cleveland Class Light cruiser, for later part the war, replacing the old Atlanta-Class ship lost during the war.


After the war she eventually became a damage effect test ship.

They did this to her....one more spectacular tests she survived, this is image of a 500 tons of TnT being exploded near her see how superstructures the Navy had designed handles this kind shock way, explosions.

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #799 on: 13 February 2020, 05:28:31 »
Why?  They had 3 US-build made for Germany Charles F Adams-Class DDG-2 Destroyers in their fleet for decades until like the 90s.

I think the reason behind the switch is

Frigate is so much less scary than a Destroyer.

More seriously I think because it's more in line with their nearby allies like the French and Spanish who similarly have more frigates.  One provides an ASW Frigate the other a Air Defence Frigate and you have a navy (joking) none have huge fleets so they combine forces in task forces for the UN or NATO

And because looking at the armaments of their ships German frigates seem to specialise in one area or another so air defence or ASW instead of both like the American Arleigh Burke.

As their smaller and more specialised they are frigates

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #800 on: 13 February 2020, 11:18:47 »
Two Icelandic ships

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #801 on: 14 February 2020, 06:14:51 »
I think the reason behind the switch is

More seriously I think because it's more in line with their nearby allies like the French and Spanish who similarly have more frigates.  One provides an ASW Frigate the other a Air Defence Frigate and you have a navy (joking) none have huge fleets so they combine forces in task forces for the UN or NATO

And because looking at the armaments of their ships German frigates seem to specialise in one area or another so air defence or ASW instead of both like the American Arleigh Burke.

As their smaller and more specialised they are frigates

Most of those units can be adequately described as multi-role. They can perform in all three of the physical domains of warfare, but not at once. Believe it or not, it's actually impossible to undertake ASW with any other type of physical warfare, it just doesn't work. Mind you, traditionally speaking I'd say that surface based ASW just doesn't work, except as a novel method of assisted suicide.

You'll find that most modern navies run Frigates for two real reasons. One, they're primarily multi-role, two, cost. The lack of an internationally recognised ship type convention notwithstanding, Frigates all tend to be around 3000 to 7000 tons, lighter, smaller and less complement. While a Destroyer or Cruiser would be a superior combatant in blue water combat, they cost a lot more and aren't as effective in littoral combat or constabulary roles. The Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigates embodied the concept of multi-role, even as aging combat platforms they provided effective service in counter piracy and smuggling, having excellent endurance and enough crew to perform the role.

Dragon Cat

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #802 on: 14 February 2020, 13:54:07 »
Thanks Nightlord

"Dawn of Glory" by Sandro Feruglio, a painting representing the torpedoing of the battleship SMS Szent István by MAS 15 on 10 June 1918

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #803 on: 14 February 2020, 14:32:47 »
Interesting painting- more details?
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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #804 on: 14 February 2020, 15:03:02 »
AH navy moved out for major naval operation in the Straits of Otranto, but Italian torpedo boat snuck up on the fleet and torpedoed the flagship. Of course there is lot of artistic license here, the boat didn't come this close and it happened under cover of darkness.
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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #805 on: 14 February 2020, 16:54:42 »
AH?  B/c the SMS was also throwing me.

Yeah, I was figuring license b/c getting that close to a destroyer or other escort would have been a bad thing.
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #806 on: 15 February 2020, 07:35:49 »
Those AH dreadnoughts were terrible designs. The crammed a lot of firepower onto a small ship, 12 x 12-inch guns as well as a useful number of 5.9-inch secondaries. But, that's where it stops being good. The turret designs were horrific, the ventalation in them was so bad that they could only operate and fire for 15 minutes before filling up with fumes from the guns. and to vent, they sucked in air from outside. Which of course would be loaded with cordite smoke and carbon monoxide.
Under water protection was something that the designers had seemingly possibly heard of once, then forgot about it and they had zero reserve of boyancy and were terrible sea boats. They couldn't turn at full rudder without risking violently listing and dunking their secondary casemate guns in the water which would have negative effects to say the least.
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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #807 on: 15 February 2020, 11:45:00 »
AH?  B/c the SMS was also throwing me.

AH=Austro-Hungarian

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #808 on: 16 February 2020, 19:37:32 »
This was posted recently on Reddit.  Shown as part of chart comparison of US Carrier built since World War II.

I am amusing like say to quote from Star Trek TNG, " Let's make sure history never forgets... the name... 'Enterprise'." 
CVN-65 still the longest US Carrier, even compared to Gerald Ford Class.

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Re: Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!
« Reply #809 on: 16 February 2020, 19:43:47 »
Another link if you can't make Wrangler's pic work (i got an issue with Chrome and PNGs):
https://i.redd.it/aj7ura8axah41.png
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