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Author Topic: Warrior C  (Read 285 times)

Retry

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Warrior C
« on: 08 October 2019, 17:49:46 »
It's a fairly straight-forward Clan conversion/upgrade of captured Warrior VTOLs.  Upgraded UAC/2 in a chin turret, a bit faster, a bit more armor, and quite a bit more burst firepower if someone gets too close (albeit with absolutely no reloads available).  More expensive than a normal Warrior, but cheaper than most Clan helicopters.  There's not much more to say about this.

Code: [Select]
Warrior C
Mass: 21 tons
Movement Type: VTOL
Power Plant: 70 Fuel Cell
Cruising Speed: 108 kph
Maximum Speed: 162 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     6 SRM 2 (I-OS)
     1 Ultra AC/2
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-E
Cost: 792,370 C-bills
Type: Warrior
Technology Base: Clan (Experimental)
Tonnage: 21
Battle Value: 430
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 2.5
Engine 70 Fuel Cell 2.5
     Cruising MP: 10
     Flanking MP: 15
Heat Sinks: 1 0
Control Equipment: 1.5
Lift Equipment: 2.5
Power Amplifier: 0
Turret: 0.5
Armor Factor: 48 3
Internal
Structure Armor
Value
Front 3 12
R/L Side 3/3 10/10
Rear 3 7
Rotor 3 2
Turret 3 7
Weapons
and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
6 SRM 2 (I-OS)s Front 6 1.5
Ultra AC/2 Turret 2 5
Targeting Computer BD 1 1
Ultra AC/2 Ammo (45) Body 1 1
CASE Body 0 0

kaliban

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #1 on: 09 October 2019, 19:00:54 »
I know you are following the concept of the Warrior - and your design makes total sense this way - but it is strange to me to combine such different weapons like a SRM2 and a UAC/2 - you never take the best of each one.

I normally play VTOLs in pairs:  one with short range weapons and another with long range weapons. As these are fast units you can decide on the distance of engagement most of the times.

packhntr

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #2 on: 10 October 2019, 15:13:24 »
I get it...and like it.....the OS SRM's are there as a $hit-n-git.....thats all. The ultra-2 is a bothersome plinker that is seriously annoying.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #3 on: 12 October 2019, 00:03:47 »
if you're using Clantech, I'd recommend the LBX-2 over the Ultra.  Simply put, "Jamming is bad when it's your main gun and you don't have fists."

reasons:

1. Range.
2. reliability.
3. utility against other flyers, vehicles, etc. etc.

It may be cheaper to look also at your weight savings again, and dump the One-shots.  The main trick with a VTOL like the H-7, is that it's a harasser that can also do conventional/support unit suppression.  a "Henchman" for your main or major units, there to make life hell for infantry and light/medium/combustible vehicles.  The ability to lay down infernos can only be improved by being able to also drop frag-shot missiles to scrub off that pesky infantry or really teach those Londerholm Farmers who's boss.

(after all, these ARE the Clans, who didn't batt an eye at genociding their own civilians as a famine-control protocol, and whose subsequent turn to the Mongol philosophy is simply a natural outgrowth of recognizing their hypocrisy for what it really is.  these are people who use 70 ton war machines to settle disputes over who cut in the lunch-line.)

One-shots don't make sense for garrison clusters either-if the pilot is flying it correctly, he's going to be driving his opponent to distraction for a good, long time while picking them apart, and in mass battles or major trials, being able to leverage an airframe's speed and maneuver to pick apart an opponent's support forces, flanks, scout their line, and the other jobs the base model (TRO 3026, not that P.O.S. they trotted out in TRO 3039) H-7 excels at are all viable, even honorable, roles for a second-line crewman (Clans generally relegate VTOL duty to second line forces). 

This means endurance is actually a thing.  You're rarely if ever going to kill anything with a single AC/2 shot, or even a double-tap, but you can get the same crit chance (tabletop) using an LBX-2 firing cluster, and it's got the advantage of going 'bang' every time you fire (unlike the Ultra, which jams), giving you on-balance the same crit chance for a slight loss of damage and a range increase (meaning you can be at "Medium" while the opponent is at "Long or out of range", couple with a cruise in the sweet spot that lets you turn or change elevation while maintaining the VTOL-calculated +5, that's 9 for return fire on a 0/0 elite gunner you probably aren't facing.

i've driven Clanner players absolutely batshit by having TNs in the 8-9 range while they're having to beat 12 or better on (their) elite pilots-and that's on one of the oldest succession-wars era vehicles ever published.

There's nothing quite like having a gamestore braggart throw the table over because he can't believe you're killing his Widowmaker with the elite pilot while using a 21 ton VTOL with a regular pilot, and it's all down to exploiting range and motion.  If the Clans were to convert the H-7, they wouldn't sacrifice what it does well, they'd amp it up to do that thing even better.  (my opinion only, others may have different views.)
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Nightsong

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #4 on: 12 October 2019, 02:14:15 »
When I look at a fast chopper with an Ultra or LB2-X, While it isn’t a strict parallel, I always get the image from early in the movie version of Clear and Present Danger, where the sniper is hitting the target over and over again and nobody could find him. Of course, in the end of the scene, it was hilarious to find he was about 20 feet away and so well camoed that they had to wonder how he got so close, to which his reply was, “by being a sneaky b#’ard, sir!”

Daryk

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #5 on: 12 October 2019, 08:00:33 »
+1 for the LB-2X and real SRM launchers.  Using cluster rounds means dropping the Targeting Computer, but that just makes it even cheaper, and gives you another ton for SRM-2s.

Something like this (SAW doesn't quite do Fractional Accounting right):
Code: [Select]
Warrior C2X

Mass: 21 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 885,020 C-Bills
Battle Value: 517

Construction Options: Fractional Accounting

Power Plant:  70 Fuel Cell Engine
Cruise Speed: 108.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 162.0 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  LB 2-X AC
    4  SRM-2s
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                2.100
Engine:             Fuel-Cell Engine              70                       2.400
    Cruise MP:  10
    Flank MP:   15
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         0.000
Control Equipment:                                                         1.500
Lift Equipment:                                                            2.500
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  56                  3.500

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     18       
                                          Left/Right   13/13       
                                                Rear     10       
                                               Rotor     2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB 2-X AC                                    FR        1         1         5.000
4 SRM-2s                                     FR        8         4         2.000
CASE                                         BD        -         0         0.000
@LB 2-X (Cluster) (45)                       BD        -         0         1.000
@SRM-2 (50)                                  BD        -         0         1.000

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 5
10v        1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: CASE, EE

Retry

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #6 on: 12 October 2019, 12:46:23 »
if you're using Clantech, I'd recommend the LBX-2 over the Ultra.  Simply put, "Jamming is bad when it's your main gun and you don't have fists."

reasons:

1. Range.
2. reliability.
3. utility against other flyers, vehicles, etc. etc.
I have a tendency to use only LB-Xs in anything when I do use Autocannons, and I've been trying to step away from that.  Actually, I almost did go with the LB-X on this one.  A LB-X version would be a good enough variant, but I went with a UAC instead primarily because the LB-X is more expensive (C-Bills, both ammo and the gun itself), and I felt the range of the UAC was sufficient (still higher than everything except artillery, Clan LB-Xs and ELRMs).
Quote
It may be cheaper to look also at your weight savings again, and dump the One-shots.  The main trick with a VTOL like the H-7, is that it's a harasser that can also do conventional/support unit suppression.  a "Henchman" for your main or major units, there to make life hell for infantry and light/medium/combustible vehicles.  The ability to lay down infernos can only be improved by being able to also drop frag-shot missiles to scrub off that pesky infantry or really teach those Londerholm Farmers who's boss.
The one-shots can also load infernos or frag missiles.  There's also what you would replace it with: 1 SRM-2 and 1 ton of ammo?  I wouldn't usually use OS's but I don't think it's a good idea for a Warrior to find itself at short range often enough to get more use of a real SRM launcher anyways.
+1 for the LB-2X and real SRM launchers.  Using cluster rounds means dropping the Targeting Computer, but that just makes it even cheaper, and gives you another ton for SRM-2s.

Something like this (SAW doesn't quite do Fractional Accounting right):
Code: [Select]
Warrior C2X

Mass: 21 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 885,020 C-Bills
Battle Value: 517

Construction Options: Fractional Accounting

Power Plant:  70 Fuel Cell Engine
Cruise Speed: 108.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 162.0 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  LB 2-X AC
    4  SRM-2s
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                2.100
Engine:             Fuel-Cell Engine              70                       2.400
    Cruise MP:  10
    Flank MP:   15
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         0.000
Control Equipment:                                                         1.500
Lift Equipment:                                                            2.500
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  56                  3.500

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     18       
                                          Left/Right   13/13       
                                                Rear     10       
                                               Rotor     2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB 2-X AC                                    FR        1         1         5.000
4 SRM-2s                                     FR        8         4         2.000
CASE                                         BD        -         0         0.000
@LB 2-X (Cluster) (45)                       BD        -         0         1.000
@SRM-2 (50)                                  BD        -         0         1.000

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 5
10v        1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: CASE, EE
Looks like you gained much of your weight just from going Fractional Accounting (a tenth from the engine, four-tenths from the structure, and had it counted Controls & Lift you'd get another .85 tons).  You also dropped the extremely-useful chin turret for another half-ton gain.

Also, it's not cheaper: The pricetag increased by ~100k C-Bills, and BV by about 20%.  The TC is actually a very small component of the original vehicle's cost.

Daryk

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #7 on: 12 October 2019, 22:02:14 »
Hmmm... I thought Targeting Computers were more expensive than that...

Retry

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #8 on: 12 October 2019, 22:34:44 »
Hmmm... I thought Targeting Computers were more expensive than that...
TarComp is 10k C-Bills per ton, so one for a UAC/2 is about the same cost as 2 machine guns.  The LB-2X by itself is 150k for comparative purposes, as expensive as a Light PPC.  Autocannons are surprisingly expensive buggers.

Cannonshop

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #9 on: 13 October 2019, 20:10:42 »
I have a tendency to use only LB-Xs in anything when I do use Autocannons, and I've been trying to step away from that.  Actually, I almost did go with the LB-X on this one.  A LB-X version would be a good enough variant, but I went with a UAC instead primarily because the LB-X is more expensive (C-Bills, both ammo and the gun itself), and I felt the range of the UAC was sufficient (still higher than everything except artillery, Clan LB-Xs and ELRMs).The one-shots can also load infernos or frag missiles.  There's also what you would replace it with: 1 SRM-2 and 1 ton of ammo?  I wouldn't usually use OS's but I don't think it's a good idea for a Warrior to find itself at short range often enough to get more use of a real SRM launcher anyways.Looks like you gained much of your weight just from going Fractional Accounting (a tenth from the engine, four-tenths from the structure, and had it counted Controls & Lift you'd get another .85 tons).  You also dropped the extremely-useful chin turret for another half-ton gain.

Also, it's not cheaper: The pricetag increased by ~100k C-Bills, and BV by about 20%.  The TC is actually a very small component of the original vehicle's cost.

I kind of maintain the view that ultras are only worth it on Battlemechs, because of Physical attacks-otherwise you're lugging a main gun that WILL fail you, and vehicles already have enough weaknesses without adding that one.

as for 'one shots' those are functionally worthless for a VTOL.  You can't carry enough to be immediately lethal to a 'mech in the same proportional weight class, and unless you're flying stupid, you'll outlive the ammo capacity without running out of targets (Which is fundamentally a bad thing(TM)).

This isn't like a Hunchback IIC, this isn't a vehicle for the role of 'suicide machine'-you can't carry enough ordnance on the airframe to do that with any sort of reliability.  an attack chopper like the H-7 is there to augment the rest of the forces as a recon element, harasser, and fast skirmish player.  You can't carry enough SRM one-shots to drop much of anything, so you carry proper SRM racks, you don't need a tarcom because you've already got a movement/range advantage that makes it possible to actually get through a 45 round magazine in a single engagement on a single AC/2, so on the Clanner version, an LBX makes more sense-it embraces the graces of the base design.  Likewise, going with standard SRM racks instead of one-shots or streaks means you can do a LOT of work scrubbing off lesser units, backstabbing things like Hellbringers, or other secondary terrain control missions to shape the battlefield for your main (Battlemech or Omnimech) units.

I'd actually recommend a more minimalist approach to your C update-improving the Recon aspect, for example, by straight trade-overs of the base model's SRM and conventional cannon for an LBX and a Clanner variant of the SRM-then installing things like active probes or (When working with a Star of Naga or other Clantillery designs) TAG equipment. (more likely if you're Hell's Horses and actually can understand what a vehicle type specialist is useful for.)

The OS launchers don't give you enough of what you need, and the Ultra fit degrades your uptime outside of maintenance.  Your best bet is to take the existing things the base design does well, and make it better at doing THAT, rahter than trying to get a one-shot duellist that can't drop a target.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #10 on: 13 October 2019, 21:40:16 »
I feel like an argument could be made for loading a bunch of I-OS launchers with smoke munitions. If you screw up (or get surprised) and have ended movement with someone close enough to shoot at you, you can put a big cloud of smoke between you and them to protect yourself, and multiple launchers can increase the amount of smoke you can lay down at once.

But its situational, and really only works a couple of times before you're out of smoke, so it might not be a great argument, but it is one that can be made.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #11 on: 13 October 2019, 23:48:48 »
I feel like an argument could be made for loading a bunch of I-OS launchers with smoke munitions. If you screw up (or get surprised) and have ended movement with someone close enough to shoot at you, you can put a big cloud of smoke between you and them to protect yourself, and multiple launchers can increase the amount of smoke you can lay down at once.

But its situational, and really only works a couple of times before you're out of smoke, so it might not be a great argument, but it is one that can be made.

you've got to remember not only the nature of Clan trials, but of Clan tactics.  In the homeworlds, winner takes all and second place is the first loser.  a design that can drag out a combat and win, is preferred to a design that can't win at all once confronted by....well, anything.

IOW the clans don't tend to field unarmed scouts, there's no Clanner equivalent of that recon-drone-carrier, because if it's piloted by a warrior, it will have weapons, and it will have weapons that have the capacity to win.

The base model of the H-7 is by Inner Sphere standards, lightly armed, almost unarmored, but it's fast, and the main gun has reach, while the secondary weapons have versatility against other conventional units.

that's kind of the basic thrust that has to be noted here; the main gun does as much damage as a machine-gun, but at extensive range, while the standard SRM rack is ideal for dropping the inferno-and a 4 pack can drop ENOUGH inferno to kill a tank or APC.  Going to a 2 rack (or even multiples) doesn't give you the chance to brew up a tank under TW rules, because of the minimum that must hit to do this, and the elimination of the "Sets the hex on fire and tanks must make a survival roll or die" from BMR (which made a 2 rack adequate for the role.)

Clantech is all about min/maxing.  You need your H-7C to do enough with its secondary weapons to threaten members of a battlearmor point-that's not going to happen with an array of OS SRM 2s.  it has a CHANCE of happening with an SRM 4 loaded with infernoes. (unless it's a Salamander point).

a NON ONE SHOT SRM-4, mind, a one-shot launcher can't really do the job.

When looking at Clan Garritrooper unit types, you have to account for what they're likely to fight, because teh Clans will.  Other Clanners is on that list somewhere near the top, and they don't generally bring light infantry unless they're the Blood Spirits.

so your vehicle needs to be able to pose a threat to Elemental armors, or have some tactical way to tie up heavier units and even bring them down-even if it's with one or two point papercuts.

easiest way to bring them down, is with a random crit, when your weapons choices are that small.  That means maximizing your chances to do so, and that maximization requires consecutive turns to pile up, so you need reliability and duration, since you aren't going to squeeze massive one-shot "Booms" into such a small airframe.

but...you might be able to crit them out, or keep them taking damage while your forces circle and manuever.  to do that, you need a deep ammo bin and lots of range,w ith a good secondary follow up that also has a deep ammo bin, with enough turn of speed to keep from becoming one with the surface in an act of deconstructive lithobraking.

with VTOL units, it is ever 'hit without being hit' is your replacement for massive, damage absorbing sheets of raw armor plate.

This means needing speed plus range for your main or primary weapon, and speed plus speed to deliver secondary hits that erode an enemy's supplemental forces.  with VTOL units, it's also always a bad idea to flank if you don't have to.  Sideslip is bad, it keeps you from hitting, it exposes you to being hit, it also exposes you to deconstructive lithobraking.
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Retry

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #12 on: 14 October 2019, 01:18:07 »
I kind of maintain the view that ultras are only worth it on Battlemechs, because of Physical attacks-otherwise you're lugging a main gun that WILL fail you, and vehicles already have enough weaknesses without adding that one.
The UAC/2 with a full ton of ammo firing at the 2x fire-rate will fail only 46% of the time before running out of ammo.  Okay, not good odds, but not guaranteed either.  The VTOL, at least, has the speed and range to bug out on a jam.  I'm keeping the UAC/2.
as for 'one shots' those are functionally worthless for a VTOL.  You can't carry enough to be immediately lethal to a 'mech in the same proportional weight class
VTOLs are one of the few platforms where certain One-Shots and Rocket Launchers make sense (the other being conventional fighters).  They generally have the speed to close in, make a shot on a target of opportunity, and get out.  But they don't necessarily have speed, the armor, or the luck to do it again and again and again, which is the implicit assumption when you pay for a full launcher + ammo.

I'd recommend re-checking the armor profiles of Clan 'Mechs in the same weight class.  The Warrior C can throw more SRMs than an Elemental Point (once...) for less C-Bills, and the SRMs are virtually an after-thought.  No more than 3 SRMs are necessary to go internal on a 20-ton Dasher.

But a Dasher would be a rather poor "target of opportunity".  Instead, load the Launchers with Inferno and cheaply obliterate several Assault-class Suits, or an Infantry Platoon, or just light key cover positions on fire.  Alternatively load Tandem-Charge and pepper a larger and slower Battlemech with the crit-inducing load.  You still (probably) won't obliterate it but a few well-placed crits can change the pace of the game much more so than a lone reloadable launcher on a Vehicle that really, really shouldn't be getting close in the first place.
Quote
and unless you're flying stupid, you'll outlive the ammo capacity without running out of targets (Which is fundamentally a bad thing(TM)).
Recall that one-to-one replacement of the current design can only result in a SRM-2 launcher with 1 ton of ammo.  On turn 1, the I-OS array puts out 6x more SRMs.  So to break even, that SRM-2 launcher needs to get into range to fire at least 6 turns.

Problem is, unless your enemy can't shoot back at all (Civillians, but in that case just send a Kestrel and call it a day), getting consistently into ranges short enough to use that SRM pack is flying stupid.  The Autocannon (regardless if it's a UAC or a LB-X variant) is there specifically because you don't want to get into brawling ranges on the regular.  LB-Xs, HAGs, and Pulse Lasers all outrange SRM packs handily(except the Small Pulse).  Infantry can match or exceed the range of the SRM, the longer ranged ones can be very dangerous to VTOLs.  BA too, and you're in heaps of trouble if they pack BA LB-X ACs.  All of these can make a Warrior C that gets close miserable, so when it does close in it better have an extremely good reason to do so.

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This isn't like a Hunchback IIC, this isn't a vehicle for the role of 'suicide machine'-you can't carry enough ordnance on the airframe to do that with any sort of reliability.  an attack chopper like the H-7 is there to augment the rest of the forces as a recon element, harasser, and fast skirmish player.  You can't carry enough SRM one-shots to drop much of anything, so you carry proper SRM racks
Not being a suicide machine is precisely why it uses I-OSs instead of regular launchers.  The main gun is the Autocannon.  The spare 1.5 tons would be completely wasted on regular SRM Launchers, so it uses lighter-weight SRMs to give just a bit of short-range teeth if something gets too close.  It's not really going to get to use them unless a Clanner or Spheroid royally screws up, but you shouldn't count on that happening every single turn.  If I did, I'd have made something entirely different.
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you don't need a tarcom because you've already got a movement/range advantage that makes it possible to actually get through a 45 round magazine in a single engagement on a single AC/2
You overestimate the average Clan vehicle pilot.  That TarComp is critical, especially at long ranges.
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The OS launchers don't give you enough of what you need, and the Ultra fit degrades your uptime outside of maintenance.  Your best bet is to take the existing things the base design does well, and make it better at doing THAT, rahter than trying to get a one-shot duellist that can't drop a target.
The first iteration of the Warrior C used regular launchers.  I posted the updated one because that version failed.

The Clan battlefield is simply too brutal for a lightly-armored bucket like the Warrior C to exist at short range more than 1 turn (and 1 turn is really stretching it).  It gets worse under certain optional rules, since what used to be "safe" ranges for the weapon still has a possibility of return fire from AA weapons with good gunners. (Extreme & LoS ranges).  Really not much point having 25-50 shots if you only ever get to use 2 of them before your rotor blows off.  Hence the I-OSs, which at least lowers the C-Bill and BV cost a bit for a weapon that's not going to get used over several turns anyways.

Cannonshop

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #13 on: 14 October 2019, 12:21:54 »
The UAC/2 with a full ton of ammo firing at the 2x fire-rate will fail only 46% of the time before running out of ammo.  Okay, not good odds, but not guaranteed either.  The VTOL, at least, has the speed and range to bug out on a jam.  I'm keeping the UAC/2.VTOLs are one of the few platforms where certain One-Shots and Rocket Launchers make sense (the other being conventional fighters).  They generally have the speed to close in, make a shot on a target of opportunity, and get out.  But they don't necessarily have speed, the armor, or the luck to do it again and again and again, which is the implicit assumption when you pay for a full launcher + ammo.

I'd recommend re-checking the armor profiles of Clan 'Mechs in the same weight class.  The Warrior C can throw more SRMs than an Elemental Point (once...) for less C-Bills, and the SRMs are virtually an after-thought.  No more than 3 SRMs are necessary to go internal on a 20-ton Dasher.

But a Dasher would be a rather poor "target of opportunity".  Instead, load the Launchers with Inferno and cheaply obliterate several Assault-class Suits, or an Infantry Platoon, or just light key cover positions on fire.  Alternatively load Tandem-Charge and pepper a larger and slower Battlemech with the crit-inducing load.  You still (probably) won't obliterate it but a few well-placed crits can change the pace of the game much more so than a lone reloadable launcher on a Vehicle that really, really shouldn't be getting close in the first place.Recall that one-to-one replacement of the current design can only result in a SRM-2 launcher with 1 ton of ammo.  On turn 1, the I-OS array puts out 6x more SRMs.  So to break even, that SRM-2 launcher needs to get into range to fire at least 6 turns.

Problem is, unless your enemy can't shoot back at all (Civillians, but in that case just send a Kestrel and call it a day), getting consistently into ranges short enough to use that SRM pack is flying stupid.  The Autocannon (regardless if it's a UAC or a LB-X variant) is there specifically because you don't want to get into brawling ranges on the regular.  LB-Xs, HAGs, and Pulse Lasers all outrange SRM packs handily(except the Small Pulse).  Infantry can match or exceed the range of the SRM, the longer ranged ones can be very dangerous to VTOLs.  BA too, and you're in heaps of trouble if they pack BA LB-X ACs.  All of these can make a Warrior C that gets close miserable, so when it does close in it better have an extremely good reason to do so.
Not being a suicide machine is precisely why it uses I-OSs instead of regular launchers.  The main gun is the Autocannon.  The spare 1.5 tons would be completely wasted on regular SRM Launchers, so it uses lighter-weight SRMs to give just a bit of short-range teeth if something gets too close.  It's not really going to get to use them unless a Clanner or Spheroid royally screws up, but you shouldn't count on that happening every single turn.  If I did, I'd have made something entirely different.You overestimate the average Clan vehicle pilot.  That TarComp is critical, especially at long ranges.The first iteration of the Warrior C used regular launchers.  I posted the updated one because that version failed.

The Clan battlefield is simply too brutal for a lightly-armored bucket like the Warrior C to exist at short range more than 1 turn (and 1 turn is really stretching it).  It gets worse under certain optional rules, since what used to be "safe" ranges for the weapon still has a possibility of return fire from AA weapons with good gunners. (Extreme & LoS ranges).  Really not much point having 25-50 shots if you only ever get to use 2 of them before your rotor blows off.  Hence the I-OSs, which at least lowers the C-Bill and BV cost a bit for a weapon that's not going to get used over several turns anyways.

If you're lingering in a VTOL, you're using it wrong on a fundamental level and deserve to be shot down.  VTOL tactics rely on fast passes, and exploiting tactical dilemmas, such as hitting the flank or rear, or flank/rear echelon unit, move out, do it again against another target next turn (or move out to long range for a turn or until you've won initiative), never, ever, ever stick around.  even with the rotor-damage nerf ripped from Munchtek, your rotors are your greatest weak point, and they make up 30 to 40 percent of your hit locations (depending on rules era).  means you don't stick around, but that in turn means you need to be able to repeat your close hits to keep him trying.  this is the core of "Harassment tactics"-to present JUST enough threat that you create tactical problems for the other side, meaning you force the other guy to try those TN 12 shots to drive up his heat or use up his ammo, instead of ignoring your dinky 2 point hits.

You also misunderstand my use of "proportional" here.  VTOLs themselves DO divide into light, medium, and heavy within their 30 ton range-the division is shown by your suspension factor and the amount of armor you can mount on the rotors.  an H-7 is the VTOL equivalent of a medium 'mech, proportionally, because it's sitting on the sweet spot between speed and payload in the 21 to 25 ton range (the range where you get the best combinations for your engine size vs. actual capacity.)

Proportionally, five one-shots give you 10 points of damage-assuming you can land all of them on one location-but then, you have no follow up for the next target-you-didn't-kill.
and damage spread shows, you're more likely NOT to kill that target, with that mass salvo, than you are if you actually pick away at them using harassment tactics.

further a 45% or 40% failure rate is into the realm of 'unacceptable risks'. because your ultra autocannon becomes an ultra-boat-anchor when you actually NEED IT.

reiterating here, "YOU DON'T LINGER With VTOLS."  if you're lingering, you're killing pilots instead of improving them with skill points.  The 'Right' way to use a VTOL, is to keep your TN as high as you can in cruise, every turn, and take or make opportunities as often as possible, in part to break up enemy formations or create distractions, but whenever possible you need to be able to repeat any significant effects you can manage-which you won't do with one-shot launchers.

"significant effects" means brewing up tanks with crits using infernoes, or clearing an infantry force as they deploy using frags. attempt  it once, and you've shot your wad with your one-shots and the other side can breathe easy, because you can't even attempt it again in the same battle-you effectively lose the threat value that makes your movement TN and AC-2 range split worth having.  (essentially becoming an underspeed and undergunned cyrano, only without the punch of the main gun.)

I've made Clanner players and assault players flip the table and storm off using base-mod H-7s.  a C variant should be able to do that, only do it BETTER.  it's also possible to scrub out guys who claim to be combined arms players, by hunting and killing their Yellowjackets with teh base H-7, that goes to turn rates and the ability to 'keep up the skeer', forcing those fire-support birds to flank every turn trying to get away until they hit a building, hill, or stand of rotor-destroying trees on their sideslip check.

and you're not gonna do that once you've blown your load with the one-shots trying for a 'glory strike', because target-numbers MATTER.  anything light enough to kill with 10 points distributed over teh entire chassis and no criticals, is faster enough to be a difficult shot with those weapons, or an exposure shot. (Elemental armor and Infantry excluded.)

The trick with VTOL units (particularly in the "medium" range tonnage for VTOLs), is to use them as light cavalry forces-harassing and creating a threat that must be dealt with so that your regular forces (tanks, 'mechs, whatever) are able to exploit opportunities against your opponent.  once you've used up your one-shot rockets, you're not a threat that must be dealt with, you're effectively useless on the field except as an inadequate sniper with a low tonnage point value for victory conditions.

for games, you also need something else;  a big map.  VTOL units confined to 1 or 2 mapsheets are just popcorn for opposing forces.  to really USE them, you need something on the order of six mapsheets laid out 2/3 or more, just to have enough room not to sideslip off the map-edge and out of the game when properly employing them.

which also demands high cruising speeds combined with long range primary weapons that are reliable, in order to create those opportunities your main force needs against a technologically equal or superior opponent.  because of Sideslip, you can't canyon carve below about a 10 MP and survive the experience.  (this is something people defending slow birds like the Jellowbucket fail to realize-every elevation change and every facing turn costs MP.  You need to be able to do one or the other consistently while maintaining a high TN or you're toast, and 'hexes covered' is the only part that counts for TN adjustments.)

so there's speed control, and there is engagement control.  Lingering is a bad idea, you don't do it if you want to use a VTOL successfully.  Your choppers need to move all over that big map, constantly, never stopping for breath, delivering slashing attacks at cruise and being unpredictable to your opponent so that he is kind of 'forced' to deal with them, which pulls pressure off your other units, and if you've got your tn high enough, consistently, he misses a LOT.

which your one-shots don't do.  the SRM rack is the big 'shotgun' or major damage dealer he has to keep in mind, because the main gun is PUNY, barely better than a machine-gun even in Ultra form, but without the platoon-dusting benefits a MG has.  YOU MIGHT get a TAC on his torso and hit a gyro slot, or ammo slot-but don't bet on it with the ultra.  bet on doing very little actual damage most of the time, but forcing the other side's choices lest you get that SRM pack in range of his APC, or heavy tank with an inferno strike (when facing combined arms) or lest you get four SRM rounds into his thin back or side armor, creating an opportunity for your 'mech or tank units.

what you posted, doesn't do this.  It's a one-shot death machine that can't even take down an urbanmech, much less an Urbie IIC, and afterward, poses LESS threat than a Ferret,with an unacceptably high chance of needing to return to the barn with a busted (only) weapon 40% of the time.













I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Retry

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #14 on: 14 October 2019, 15:37:13 »
If you're lingering in a VTOL, you're using it wrong on a fundamental level and deserve to be shot down.  VTOL tactics rely on fast passes, and exploiting tactical dilemmas, such as hitting the flank or rear, or flank/rear echelon unit, move out, do it again against another target next turn (or move out to long range for a turn or until you've won initiative), never, ever, ever stick around. 
"Lingering" refers to duration, not speed.  You're lingering if you're staying on a large battlefield long enough to make several passes that involve an actual SRM barrage.  You're also lingering if you're staying just outside of weapon ranges with your AC/2 variant and pelting your opponent over 20+ turns, but that lingering at least takes place at long distances.  If your VTOL isn't bugging out, you're lingering, doesn't matter if you're only moving 2 hexes per turn, or 20.
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even with the rotor-damage nerf ripped from Munchtek, your rotors are your greatest weak point,
Yes.
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and they make up 30 to 40 percent of your hit locations (depending on rules era)
No.
Or, at least, highly misleading.

The probability of a rotor hit is 11/36 on each of the front, side, and rear VTOL hit tables, which corresponds to ~30.6% chance.  That's firmly at the low end of your estimate; the high end is nothing but hyperbole.

If the VTOL mounts a Chin Turret (like the Warrior C), the "4" location changes from a rotor hit to a chin turret hit, reducing the rotor hit probability to 8/36, or ~22.2%.
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You also misunderstand my use of "proportional" here.  VTOLs themselves DO divide into light, medium, and heavy within their 30 ton range-the division is shown by your suspension factor and the amount of armor you can mount on the rotors.  an H-7 is the VTOL equivalent of a medium 'mech, proportionally, because it's sitting on the sweet spot between speed and payload in the 21 to 25 ton range (the range where you get the best combinations for your engine size vs. actual capacity.)
That's a pedantic argument for the VTOL being a "medium" (or "heavy" for that matter), and a distinction I've never seen anyone but you make.  VTOLs are treated as light vehicles in the areas where the nominal vehicle class/weight actually matters, such as for turning modes (Tac Ops) and cargo/vehicle bay space.
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Proportionally, five one-shots
six one-shots...
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give you 10 points of damage
12-24 points, average of  17...
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assuming you can land all of them on one location
Assumption isn't necessary to cause issues with T-C Warheads or Infernos (on certain targets), both viable loads available that you seem to ignore.
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but then, you have no follow up for the next target-you-didn't-kill.
The Warrior C cannot make several passes against any reasonably-equipped Clan-Spec unit at short ranges.  There is no follow-up if you're shot down on the 2nd pass.

If your operational environment is permissive enough that you can make several (3+) passes at ranges short enough to use your SRMs and survive, then it's permissive enough to make several passes with medium-ranged weapons.

Then forget the Autocannon and the Warrior entirely.  Just grab a Donar or a Balac.  Or make a Clan-conversion Cavalry.
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and damage spread shows, you're more likely NOT to kill that target
It's one and a half tons.  It's not intended to.
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than you are if you actually pick away at them using harassment tactics.
The alternative loadout for an equivalent weight is one SRM-2.
If you can consistently 7+ close passes to fire off more missiles than the equivalent weight of I-OS launchers, that's not a fight, that's a milk run.

The OPFOR gets a vote.  If the OPFOR is so weak it doesn't, you don't need a Warrior C and would do just as fine with a Balac or Donar.
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I've made Clanner players and assault players flip the table and storm off using base-mod H-7s.
-big snip-
Yes, you've made that abundantly clear way back in the Wyvern thread.  That and your hate of the Yellow Jacket and every VTOL that marks the -30 ton box.
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what you posted, doesn't do this.  It's a one-shot death machine that can't even take down an urbanmech
Nope.
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much less an Urbie IIC
Also nope.
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and afterward, poses LESS threat than a Ferret
Look, I know you're not happy with my rendition of the Warrior, but jumping to hysterics doesn't really help your case.


It's not that I don't appreciate being lectured exactly how I should be designing and flying VTOLs (much of which I already do).  But it got exhausting by the Wyvern thread.

I simply do not care how many clanners you've made quit in rage with your H-7s.  I've played a lot with VTOLs on large maps and long-term campaigns, often Double-Blind and with Tac-Ops optional rules, and I've used them successfully in ways outside of the narrow box of using VTOLs that you have.

The Warrior C is not optimal.  If it were designed to be optimal, I wouldn't have used the Warrior as a base in the first place, or an AC/2 variant at all.

From what I've done with it, it's not bad.  It's good enough, as far as Clan mooks go.  Whatever the case, it is not the junk pile that you're trying to paint it as.  (Just like the Wyvern...)

I've taken your recommendations into account and, given my actual experience with the things, I've elected to ignore them.  A LB-X could be a possible variant, as well as one with a SRM launcher.  But as far as the regular Warrior C...

The chin turret stays.
The targeting computer stays.
The UAC/2 stays.
The I-OS array stays.

Cannonshop

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #15 on: 15 October 2019, 15:04:07 »
"Lingering" refers to duration, not speed.  You're lingering if you're staying on a large battlefield long enough to make several passes that involve an actual SRM barrage.  You're also lingering if you're staying just outside of weapon ranges with your AC/2 variant and pelting your opponent over 20+ turns, but that lingering at least takes place at long distances.  If your VTOL isn't bugging out, you're lingering, doesn't matter if you're only moving 2 hexes per turn, or 20.Yes.No.
Or, at least, highly misleading.

The probability of a rotor hit is 11/36 on each of the front, side, and rear VTOL hit tables, which corresponds to ~30.6% chance.  That's firmly at the low end of your estimate; the high end is nothing but hyperbole.

If the VTOL mounts a Chin Turret (like the Warrior C), the "4" location changes from a rotor hit to a chin turret hit, reducing the rotor hit probability to 8/36, or ~22.2%.That's a pedantic argument for the VTOL being a "medium" (or "heavy" for that matter), and a distinction I've never seen anyone but you make.  VTOLs are treated as light vehicles in the areas where the nominal vehicle class/weight actually matters, such as for turning modes (Tac Ops) and cargo/vehicle bay space.six one-shots...12-24 points, average of  17...Assumption isn't necessary to cause issues with T-C Warheads or Infernos (on certain targets), both viable loads available that you seem to ignore.The Warrior C cannot make several passes against any reasonably-equipped Clan-Spec unit at short ranges.  There is no follow-up if you're shot down on the 2nd pass.

If your operational environment is permissive enough that you can make several (3+) passes at ranges short enough to use your SRMs and survive, then it's permissive enough to make several passes with medium-ranged weapons.

Then forget the Autocannon and the Warrior entirely.  Just grab a Donar or a Balac.  Or make a Clan-conversion Cavalry.It's one and a half tons.  It's not intended to.The alternative loadout for an equivalent weight is one SRM-2.
If you can consistently 7+ close passes to fire off more missiles than the equivalent weight of I-OS launchers, that's not a fight, that's a milk run.

The OPFOR gets a vote.  If the OPFOR is so weak it doesn't, you don't need a Warrior C and would do just as fine with a Balac or Donar.Yes, you've made that abundantly clear way back in the Wyvern thread.  That and your hate of the Yellow Jacket and every VTOL that marks the -30 ton box.Nope.Also nope.Look, I know you're not happy with my rendition of the Warrior, but jumping to hysterics doesn't really help your case.


It's not that I don't appreciate being lectured exactly how I should be designing and flying VTOLs (much of which I already do).  But it got exhausting by the Wyvern thread.

I simply do not care how many clanners you've made quit in rage with your H-7s.  I've played a lot with VTOLs on large maps and long-term campaigns, often Double-Blind and with Tac-Ops optional rules, and I've used them successfully in ways outside of the narrow box of using VTOLs that you have.

The Warrior C is not optimal.  If it were designed to be optimal, I wouldn't have used the Warrior as a base in the first place, or an AC/2 variant at all.

From what I've done with it, it's not bad.  It's good enough, as far as Clan mooks go.  Whatever the case, it is not the junk pile that you're trying to paint it as.  (Just like the Wyvern...)

I've taken your recommendations into account and, given my actual experience with the things, I've elected to ignore them.  A LB-X could be a possible variant, as well as one with a SRM launcher.  But as far as the regular Warrior C...

The chin turret stays.
The targeting computer stays.
The UAC/2 stays.
The I-OS array stays.

okay, I REALLY want to see your math on that.  17 average with weapons that do 2 points per hit???

wanna see that one mathed out, because you can't GET single damage points on an SRM-2 round.  you get multiples of 2.  On 'average' with 12 missiles six of them will get you 12 (that's at 50% hit probability) out of 24 possible damage, if you're having odd number hits (7 or 9) you're going to end up 14 or 18 points, but they're not all hitting the same location.

your average spread puts more hits to limbs, and rarely on the same one twice unless you're firing a fairly significant volume-assuming all your to-hit rolls that result in a hit also land both missiles. (SRM-2 table has a bias toward single missile hits, or 50% of potential damage, said potential being 4, not 2, so half of that is 2, not 4.)

bunked dice aside, you're still shooting your wad in one go, making your platform effectively useless if things don't roll your way.  (the extra to-hit rolls may slightly improve this, but only in the same manner as loading up an LRM platform with 5's instead of taking a 15 or 20.  you get more chances to roll a hit, but your average is not going to be in the top quarter-you're going to miss more often, and land smaller groups of shot. on a tabletop, you're also going to annoy the rest of the players by taking forever to resolve your firing phase.  on Megamek it doesn't matter very much, because the computer's doing it for you.)

It would be interesting to see if you would test your theories in person.  Mine have a couple of decades worth of live testing behind them, though admittedly, less recent than I'd like.

Please note, if time were available and geography could be bent, I'd like to see this in person-using stock designs against your customs on a map laid out by a neutral third party of sufficient size, because you're clearly passionate about your own concepts and I want to see if they actually work under the newer rules (they don't work under BMR/pre-total warfare.)

but your rounding error (you forgot to account for the fact that 'average damage' has to be rounded with SRMs because they do 2 points of damage per, even "improved"....)  suggests you're being more of a keyboard cowboy because your blood's up, even sloppier than my math, which at least had the benefit of taking into account what the damage spread is most likely to be with bundles of one-shot SRMs in a live playing environment. (Less than half of launched missiles tend to hit due to the spread diagram's math alone. 10 points on 6 launchers is being generous. with six dice rolls, an average of 5 hits is generous, most of the time, it's going to be 2 or 3, roughly half MAY deliver both missiles to the target, so let's say you get 5 missiles hit, or 6.  double that, that's your damage-that's your AVERAGE damage...and you still don't get to repeat that attempt in a subsequent turn.)

now, what is 30%? right, it's one third.

11 is less than one third of 36.  The added hit location IS nice, esp since the devs gave that to the chin turret from the rotors, instead of the vastly more probable frontal or side armor facings.  almost like they needed to make something-a specific design, more viable than it would otherwise be.

or maybe they needed to add another vulnerability, since any location destroyed on a vehicle (and VTOL is a vehicle) counts as destroying the vehicle. (Unlike 'mechs, vehicles die if you destroy a location, which is why HVAC is a suicide pact for a vehicle, but kind-of-maybe-okay on a 'mech, also why CASE isn't that great on your tank-surprise! you still die.)

but it does grant you a wider-than-the narrow-nose arc to fire your main gun.

it's actually a design choice of yours i agreed with-it makes sense and doesn't compromise the unit.

I just think you went the wrong direction with the REST of the design-choosing a main gun that fails frequently and can't be un-failed, and loading down with one-shots is more something you put on a solahma's suicide-sled, than on something that you actually intend to use to influence the battle.

for my money, a better choice would've been to use an LBX in that chin turret, a CLAN SRM-4 for the secondary, and install battlefield electronics (the Clans do have such things) in a mast-mount or in the nose. (active probe, TAG, that kind of thing) and maybe a hotter engine to make it an effective recon platform.  the basic weaknesses of the VTOL platform are sufficient balancing most of the time, and optimal usage is pretty much universal with universal counters (Hypervelocity Assault Gauss says 'hi' by the way, and long since most of the players in my old group took up the practice of having LBX's to counter my stinging insects of death and frustration.)

maybe it's just that I got used to facing players who DO take vees into account and DO bring weapons that eradicate flying things. (or bring their own flying things to deal with mine.)

Rather than, y'know, testing on the bot in Megamek, a device with neither much tactical ability , nor memory....
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Retry

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Re: Warrior C
« Reply #16 on: 15 October 2019, 17:47:53 »
okay, I REALLY want to see your math on that.  17 average with weapons that do 2 points per hit???
One SRM-2 hits with 1 missile on a cluster roll of 7 or less, and with 2 missiles on an 8+, according to the cluster hit table.  In other words, 21/36 times one missile hits, the other 15/36 times both hit.  The average number of missiles hitting can easily be calculated as 1 missile * (21/35 cluster probability) + 2 missiles * (15/36 cluster probability) =~1.4167 missiles hit.  The average damage is 2 (damage/missile) * 1.4167 missiles =~ 2.8334 damage per SRM-2 rack.  Since there is 6 SRM racks, the average total damage is 2.8334 (Damage/Rack) * 6 (Racks) =~ 17 damage.

The average damage can be further weighed by to-hit numbers if desired simply by multiplying the average damage calculated here by the to-hit probability.  I think you can at least manage that part.
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wanna see that one mathed out, because you can't GET single damage points on an SRM-2 round.  you get multiples of 2.
The average of a set does not have to be an integer, even if the set consists only of integers.
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On 'average' with 12 missiles six of them will get you 12 (that's at 50% hit probability) out of 24 possible damage
If you're referring to the cluster hit tables when you're talking about "hit probability", none of the missiles have 50% or lower hit probability.  The 2-column's cluster hit probability can be calculated to be ~70.6% average hit probability on the cluster table, and the other columns I looked at tended to be around the ~63% region.  So a "50% hit probability" is a wrong assumption.
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It would be interesting to see if you would test your theories in person.
I have done so with other people through MM.  It's not practical for me to meet up physically frequently due to geographical, time, and practical restraints (I'm often busy, in the middle of nowhere, and Double Blind is an utter pain to manage in-person too).

The Warrior C, it's mostly a flavor unit, but it's been used once or twice as a flavor mook in a campaign setting.  The person controlling the OpFor flies the Warrior C around a bit, taking shots with the Autocannon, darts and unloads with the I-OS SRMs if someone is clumsy enough to make themselves an easy target, and bugs out once the AC ammo runs out or the gun jams (unless we're using house-rules not strictly relevant here).
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but your rounding error (you forgot to account for the fact that 'average damage' has to be rounded with SRMs because they do 2 points of damage per, even "improved"....)
No.

The arithmetic mean (Average) involves no rounding.

There's no rounding to "forget".  Rounding to the nearest 2 points would introduce an entirely pointless error to the average calculation for absolutely no reason.

A tiny example: A weapon that automatically hits its target, but deals 1 point of damage 50% of the time, and 2 points the other 50%, would have an average damage of 1.5.  Under no circumstance is this number rounded.
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even sloppier than my math, which at least had the benefit of taking into account what the damage spread is most likely to be with bundles of one-shot SRMs in a live playing environment.
Damage spreading on several hit locations doesn't reduce the average damage, so there's nothing to account for.
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(Less than half of launched missiles tend to hit due to the spread diagram's math alone.
"Spread diagram?"  You mean cluster hits table?  You're not being very clear at all.

In that case, that is also wrong.  Every column on the cluster hits table consistently has an average number of missile hits for a successful attack higher than 50%.  They're usually around the low 60s but it depends on the column, with the -2 column reaching around 70% average.
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with six dice rolls, an average of 5 hits is generous, most of the time, it's going to be 2 or 3
So you're trying to include the to-hit probabilities with your average damage.  Fine, but that's obviously going to make the average damage highly dependent on the to-hit numbers, and it drops the average damage by the same percentage regardless of the weapon with the exception of special cases like Pulse Lasers (which is why I didn't include it originally, so you multiply that factor later at whatever to-hit number to get the average at that THN).

At 2-3 hitting launchers on average vs 6 firing launchers, you're firing at to-hit numbers of around 8-9.  Those numbers aren't good enough to justify flying close enough to use the SRMs (and risk getting shot down) in the first place, regardless if they're one-shots or reloadable.

It's easy enough to adjust my calculated "all-hit" average for the THN: Just multiply that by the probability of succeeding the to-hit roll.  For a target number of 7, that's 21/36, so the average damage of the I-OS array at THN 7 is just 17*(21/36)=~9.92 damage

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so let's say you get 5 missiles hit, or 6.  double that, that's your damage-that's your AVERAGE damage...
To your credit, you have the general procedure correct.  You just didn't derive any actual numbers so it's hearsay and not math.
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now, what is 30%? right, it's one third.
Three-tenths.

1/3rd as a percentage is ~33.33%.  That's a percent error of (33.33-30)/30=~11%.
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11 is less than one third of 36.
Yes.  I understand how fractions work.
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it's actually a design choice of yours i agreed with-it makes sense and doesn't compromise the unit.

I just think you went the wrong direction with the REST of the design-choosing a main gun that fails frequently and can't be un-failed, and loading down with one-shots is more something you put on a solahma's suicide-sled, than on something that you actually intend to use to influence the battle.
I've already explained why I went with One-Shots and UACs at least twice now.

If I felt this design could survive in close quarters on the regular to use its SRMs, not only would I have used normal SRMs and not One-Shots, I'd have removed the Autocannon for more SRMs.  But then it'd be a Light Cavalry.

However, gut instinct and prior experiences told me that such a design could not make the multiple passes while surviving needed to justify a "real" launcher.  Using it in a campaign setting (against actual people, not bots) confirmed it.
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for my money, a better choice would've been to use an LBX in that chin turret, a CLAN SRM-4 for the secondary, and install battlefield electronics (the Clans do have such things) in a mast-mount or in the nose. (active probe, TAG, that kind of thing) and maybe a hotter engine to make it an effective recon platform.
It also drives up the price by over 100k C-Bills.  Add the electronic equipment (either Light Probe or Light TAG, there's not enough weight left over for a full one) and you're near 1 million C-Bills, right next to the Donar in terms of price.

Not that it's a bad thing, but making a lower-cost VTOL was one of the primary goals of this.  At the new chopper's price, it's not much cheaper than a Donar at all, and the Donar has a fusion engine.  At that point, why not just take a Donar, or redesign that instead?

 

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