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Author Topic: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles  (Read 1164 times)

Daryk

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Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« on: 20 October 2019, 07:08:13 »
Thanks to Great Club for this idea!

Starting with the standard Gauss Rifle and Light Gauss Rifle, and comparing them to the AC range of weapons, it seems we're missing a couple at the low end.  So:

Code: [Select]
Weapon                   Type      Heat     Damage     Minimum   Short Medium  Long   Ammo   Tons   Criticals
Very Light Gauss Rifle   DB,X        1         5          4       1-9   10-18  18-27   24      9        4
Ultra Light Gauss Rifle  DB,X        1         3          5       1-10  11-20  21-30   32      6        3

If they take critical hits, the VLGR explodes for 10 points of damage, and the ULGR for 5.

Dave Talley

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #1 on: 20 October 2019, 11:22:03 »
nice substitutes for ACs,
now park that Jager on a hill with these and start popping targets on the next map
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #2 on: 20 October 2019, 11:59:34 »
Thanks!  That was my thinking exactly...  8)

I am Belch II

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #3 on: 20 October 2019, 13:04:05 »
With the weight of the gauss rifle compared to the damage...is it worth it.
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #4 on: 20 October 2019, 13:14:36 »
That was the balancing I was trying to achieve.  Since you're asking the question, I think I succeeded...  ;)

Retry

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #5 on: 20 October 2019, 13:17:28 »
Well, it's a way to obsolete the smaller autocannons, anyways.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #6 on: 20 October 2019, 13:25:22 »
With the exception of the specialty ammo they can use.  That's what keeps them viable in the face of LB-Xs and Ultras already.

Retry

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #7 on: 20 October 2019, 14:22:35 »
With the exception of the specialty ammo they can use.  That's what keeps them viable in the face of LB-Xs and Ultras already.
The specialty ammo is a bandage, not really enough to let them compare to the LB-X and Ultra, let alone these.

For the weight of an AC/2 you can get an UltraLight Gauss with an absurd range bracket increase and a 50% increase in damage.  Also, if it explodes it's not nearly as devastating as an Autocannon ammo explosion.  That's an upgrade on nearly all platforms regardless of how much Precision Ammo you stuff on it, except maybe something like a Jagermech for the AA role (flak ammo), but then again the #1 rule of AA guns is just "Range" on repeat.

I'd honestly replace any IS AC/2 or UAC/2 with one of those without a second thought.  I'd probably replace the IS LB 2-X on most things too unless I really wanted an AA pop-gun.  And it compares extremely well to the Clan LB 2-X and UAC/2.

Imagine a Warrior H-7 variant with one.  You'd stop the Clan Invasion cold at the Rasalhague Dominion's Borders.


The Very-Light Gauss Rifle (Why not XL?) has a similar thing.  You pay an extra ton to upgrade AC/5s to a VLGR and you get a rather crazy 50% range boosts, and a more mild explosion compared to an autocannon hit.  Considering the state of the AC/5 that seems like an absolute win to me.

Drop a ton of SRM ammo from the SHD-2D and replace the AC/5 with a VLGR, and the 'Mech all of the sudden is a respectable sniper.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #8 on: 20 October 2019, 14:47:41 »
I went with "VLGR" because I had "ULGR" in mind, and the next step from "XL" is "XXL", which I didn't like very much.

As for the ULGR, do you think it should be a ton heavier?  I'm convincible here... I was just using the 3-ton step from GR to LGR and repeated it.

Retry

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #9 on: 20 October 2019, 15:19:27 »
I went with "VLGR" because I had "ULGR" in mind, and the next step from "XL" is "XXL", which I didn't like very much.

As for the ULGR, do you think it should be a ton heavier?  I'm convincible here... I was just using the 3-ton step from GR to LGR and repeated it.
Well, my preferred solution would be to make Autocannons not suck, rather than to nerf Gauss Rifles in general.  So it's more of a complaint about canonical Autocannons than about these.

I just don't personally see a real need for super light-weight versions of Gauss Rifles that handily outrange everything that's not an artillery piece.  Other than casting another spotlight on how bad small ACs are, they're not too bad themselves, and I bet they work well enough.  I'm just happy with the Light/Standard/Heavy paradigm, and just feel there's going to be inherent issues trying to go further in either direction (Ultra-Heavy or Ultra-Light Gauss Rifles).  That's all.
« Last Edit: 20 October 2019, 15:21:04 by Retry »

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #10 on: 20 October 2019, 15:28:15 »
That's one of the reasons I stuck with the existing Ultra/LB-X ranges vice going beyond.  If six or seven tons makes no difference, I'll probably just stick with six, since that follows the 3-ton difference thing between GRs and LGRs.

dgorsman

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #11 on: 20 October 2019, 16:12:45 »
It makes for an interesting historical revision: what if the light gauss was not an attempt to reverse engineer a Clan-spec gauss rifle, but instead was introduced earlier as an attempt to reproduce the Star League model?

And a question.  Why not make the ranges on the very/ultra models shorter, rather than extending them to extreme range?  Similar to the reduced ranges of the LAC models?
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #12 on: 20 October 2019, 16:21:15 »
Interesting idea... what would you propose?  The APGR is 0.5 ton, and has 3/6/9 range...

dgorsman

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #13 on: 20 October 2019, 17:50:38 »
And the Magshot is similar.  That's where the thought was, bridging the mid ground between those two and the light/standard/heavy models.

I want to say ~15 hexes for the one and ~18 for the other; I know some don't like uneven range brackets but I would recommend it here, with a couple more hexes in the long range.  Those ranges would mean lighter weights than what you put down though.

That's all by feel at this point.
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #14 on: 20 October 2019, 17:54:12 »
The danger there is we get into LAC territory, and they're MUCH lighter (4 for the 2, 5 for the 5)...

Sartris

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #15 on: 20 October 2019, 20:30:59 »
My only quibble is that you didn’t take it to the logical extreme of an XXXS being able to plink for one damage from a kilometer

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #16 on: 20 October 2019, 20:33:32 »
33 hexes would just about be that, and it IS the next step in the chain (and 34 really wouldn't be a reach), but a 3 ton weapon that could do that would probably be beyond the pale...

Sartris

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #17 on: 20 October 2019, 22:43:05 »
if firing a projectile at hypersonic speeds from a map and a half away is wrong, i don't want to be right

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #18 on: 21 October 2019, 04:28:46 »
Hmmm... maybe at four tons?  Say, three crits?

I am Belch II

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #19 on: 01 November 2019, 08:39:27 »
I still like them either way.
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packhntr

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #20 on: 12 November 2019, 12:21:10 »
WAY back in the day, a guy i gamed with and I came up with a Gauss Pistol.  6 tons, 3 crit.  3 heat and fired 3x 5-point shots.  Same range as the normal gauss rifle.  If critted, caused 15 points damage like the standard gauss rifle.  Quirk:  It could only.. ONLY fire 3 shots at a time.  (We came up with some design issues that caused this to be).  If the first round hit, the second was a +1 and the third was a +2 (I think) or automatic....cannot remember.  Ammo was 24 / ton. I don't think we ever came up with BV for it. Put it in a Panther and it was nasty.
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #21 on: 12 November 2019, 18:21:04 »
Nasty indeed!  I think I'd have called that an SMG or Carbine vice Pistol, but to each their own.

And I'm leaning toward the 4-ton, 3-crit solution for Sartris' range fixation...  ::)

Retry

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #22 on: 12 November 2019, 18:57:48 »
A lighter tri-UAC/5 with more range, less weight, less space, more ammo.  I'll bet it was.

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #23 on: 13 November 2019, 01:20:21 »
A lighter tri-UAC/5 with more range, less weight, less space, more ammo.  I'll bet it was.
I thought the same - maybe that would have been the solution for the other thread - just add the word Gauss.
So for example a Gauss Missile, or a Gauss Autocannon.

Sry, I could not resist to deliver that cheap jab.
But when you get at those ridiculous low weights consider to go with ranges in the other direction.
« Last Edit: 13 November 2019, 02:23:47 by Hptm. Streiger »

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #24 on: 13 November 2019, 05:26:39 »
Given the current ban on that topic, I think it best to avoid those cheap jabs...

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #25 on: 13 November 2019, 06:41:30 »
Well, I admit I didn't had expected that your Gauss Rifles are more balanced compared to the already existing Gauss Weapons.

(without headcapping 1.2 bonus)
Code: [Select]
Weapon     BV    B/LF
Gauss-25  288  12.5
Gauss-22  320  12.8
Gauss-15  267  14.8
Gauss-8   159  11.4
Gauss-5   104   9.5 
Gauss-3    68   8.5
Gauss-2    15   6.0
Compared to the official ballistics the additional Gauss Rifles are in a good spot - comparable with LBX and UAC5.
« Last Edit: 13 November 2019, 10:05:01 by Hptm. Streiger »

Retry

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #26 on: 13 November 2019, 14:47:03 »
Only 68 BV on that Gauss-3?  That's quite the steal.  Considering the ELRM-5 comes in at 67, I'd easily drop one of 'em for a Plinker Gauss.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #27 on: 13 November 2019, 21:42:57 »
I'm going to call that victory right there... Especially since I didn't do ANY of the BV math...  8)

Notsonoble

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #28 on: 14 November 2019, 15:11:55 »
What does it look like if you do only this single one:


Weapon                   Type      Heat     Damage     Minimum   Short Medium  Long   Ammo   Tons   Criticals
Ultra Light Gauss Rifle  DB,X        1         4          5       1-10  11-20  21-30   24      9        4
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dgorsman

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #29 on: 14 November 2019, 18:24:50 »
I like it.  As I mentioned before, any lighter and it's less a lightweight gauss rifle and more of a heavy MagShot, with attendant range.
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