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Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?  (Read 5048 times)

Kidd

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #150 on: 12 November 2019, 02:33:57 »
There was indeed some Gripen about jamming recently


glitterboy2098

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #151 on: 12 November 2019, 03:25:07 »
in keeping with both the current and previous topics, the first type of aircraft to use combat datalink.



the J-35B/C's deployed in 1961 used the SAAB S7 FCS, which had an early digital datalink system that connected to the STRIL 60 ground radar network. this not only improved reaction times on interception, the datalink could feed the fighter targeting information.

Luciora

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #152 on: 12 November 2019, 03:40:49 »
The Gripen was also used in Macross Delta as a Valkerie too.  Still can't get used to how skinny they are now.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #153 on: 12 November 2019, 06:00:00 »
It's real funny seeing a JAS 39 next to a J/A 37. It's clear who's the kid of the pair! ;D

I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #154 on: 12 November 2019, 07:20:13 »
The Grippen, Viggen and the Draken are some of the best looking fighters out there. Pretty neat that a little "netural" country like Sweden can make such neat aircraft.
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Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #155 on: 12 November 2019, 10:03:55 »
It's funny how a company that can make such pretty fighters can make only dull and uninteresting cars. 
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #156 on: 12 November 2019, 10:12:45 »
Don't say that to a SAAB car owner! Risk of severe burns! :D

Thought if they owned one of the early turbo models, they'll probably note that "interesting" was mostly in the Chinese sense... ::)

Simon Landmine

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #157 on: 12 November 2019, 11:21:09 »
Don't say that to a SAAB car owner! Risk of severe burns! :D

Yep! Never owned one myself, but I've got friends addicted to them. 'Real SAABs' (before they went under for the nth time) were amazingly engineered vehicles, with the same dedication to "doing it their way" that the aero-engineering side of the company had. Which notably caused substantial financial problems, when they decided that the instructions they were given by other companies that nominally owned them were "not good enough", and refused to carry out 'badge engineering' for the same reason.

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Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #158 on: 12 November 2019, 19:12:50 »
Well engineered yes. Much like Volkswagens and Volvos.

And all three are about as exciting as a bowl of oatmeal.
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DOC_Agren

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #159 on: 12 November 2019, 19:22:28 »
The Gripen was also used in Macross Delta as a Valkerie too.  Still can't get used to how skinny they are now.

Really?
I missed a Macrosss!!!!
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Simon Landmine

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #160 on: 12 November 2019, 20:12:04 »
Well engineered yes. Much like Volkswagens and Volvos.

And all three are about as exciting as a bowl of oatmeal.

Depends what your frames of reference are - here in the UK, we don't have much in the way of muscle cars to lust after, but the early models of VW Golf GTi were rather enthusiastic (and likely to end up occasionally airborne, which almost makes this relevant for the aviation thread), and the Volvo T5 was pretty daft. I'll try to a find an airframe photo for any future comments! Sorry!
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Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #161 on: 12 November 2019, 20:13:32 »
MacLarens are from the UK, aren't they?  ???

Sorry for the off topic bit there, but I HAD to ask...

Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #162 on: 12 November 2019, 20:36:49 »
My dad almost crashed in a VW Beetle way back in the day due to its aerodynamics. IIRC it lifts off at about 110 mph?

Simon Landmine

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #163 on: 12 November 2019, 21:25:55 »
MacLarens are from the UK, aren't they?  ???

Sorry for the off topic bit there, but I HAD to ask...

Yep, MacLarens are - but they're a little outside the reach of most! While TV programmes make it look like every second backyard in the US has a big-block V8 just waiting for a garage to bring it back to life.



Have an early SAAB - the Saab 17 reconnaissance/bomber, from 1940.
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Failure16

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #164 on: 12 November 2019, 22:06:04 »
So, that's what happens when a Corsair, a Helldiver, and a B5N Kate go back in time and have a ménage à fou.
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Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #165 on: 12 November 2019, 23:29:22 »
My dad almost crashed in a VW Beetle way back in the day due to its aerodynamics. IIRC it lifts off at about 110 mph?

It can go that fast!?   :o


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Dave Talley

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #166 on: 12 November 2019, 23:44:49 »
i can verify that an old beetles front end will go airborne at about 90
was driving 60 into a very windy storm once so effective wind speed was 80-90

i quickly backed down
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #167 on: 13 November 2019, 00:04:00 »
Beetles weren't that aerodynamic, they were just that light.
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #168 on: 13 November 2019, 03:33:43 »
Beetles weren't that aerodynamic, they were just that light.


also nose-light with the engine in the back
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #169 on: 13 November 2019, 06:59:25 »
AFAIK it was all of the above. The early SAAB cars had the same problems, actually. I think it came down to being designed by airplane engineers trying for minimal drag - going for the profile they knew best, a wing... ::)

But I think we might be going just a little OT here. Have a flying car! :)



Taylor Aerocar

hoosierhick

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #170 on: 13 November 2019, 09:35:30 »
Really?
I missed a Macrosss!!!!

I thought the Windermearian (or however you spell it) Valkeries were based off the Draken, not the Gripen?

Luciora

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #171 on: 13 November 2019, 10:32:44 »
Draken, I had rechecked after, and am corrected. 

I have a finished kit of the officer version, as I preferred the head over the standard version, but preferred the wings of the standard.

If I could afford it, I'd have bought both kits and transplanted the head onto the other kit if possible.

I thought the Windermearian (or however you spell it) Valkeries were based off the Draken, not the Gripen?

Simon Landmine

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #172 on: 13 November 2019, 11:22:23 »
But I think we might be going just a little OT here. Have a flying car! :)

It's not a proper flying car unless it's an AMC Matador nailed to what were allegedly some Cessna parts, and being used by dashing assassin Scaramanga to escape a certain 'secret' agent renowned for telling everyone his name.



(According to the sources I've seen, this could only manage a 500m hop, which was enough to appear to take off, and the aerial shots used a model. The prototype apparently killed two of the techs who had built and tested it.)
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #173 on: 13 November 2019, 12:38:08 »
Well, the Aerocar does have the advantage of 1) being able to drive away with the whole "aircraft" (wings and tail fold into a trailer) and 2) actually being a working, existing, flying car. ;)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #174 on: 13 November 2019, 13:54:05 »
Working might be too strong a word.
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Kidd

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #175 on: 13 November 2019, 14:17:07 »
At what point does it cease to be a flying car, and become a taxying airplane airplane with a car-shaped fuselage?

Colt Ward

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #176 on: 13 November 2019, 14:39:28 »
Working might be too strong a word.

I do not know, that little yellow pusher looks like its got some decent altitude for that sort of contraption.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #177 on: 13 November 2019, 14:59:09 »
Copied from http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/aerocar.htm

Quote
AEROCAR  PERFORMANCE
Top Speed ........Over 110 MPH
Cruising Speed ....Over 100 MPH
Rate of Climb (I st Min @ full load) ...Over 550 FPM

Service Ceiling @ full load ...Over 12,000 Ft,
Cruise Range .....Over 300 Miles
Landing Speed .... 50 MPH

Landing Run (with normal braking) ...300 Ft.
Take-off Run ..... 650 Ft.
Distance to Clear 50 ft. Obstacle .....1225 Ft.
Designed Road Speed (Engine red line)...67 MPH
Road Range .....Over 400 Miles
Fuel Consumption (Cruising)......8 GPH
Road Fuel Consumption ......18 MPG
Time to Change from Plane to Car ......Five Min.

So not terribly fast. Thought a modern one would probably be a lot more effective.

I'd say the #1 problem is road safety. You're just going to have to make the car way to late to survive a collision. :P But it was probably all right back in the '60s.

Simon Landmine

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #178 on: 13 November 2019, 20:07:25 »
Well, the Aerocar does have the advantage of 1) being able to drive away with the whole "aircraft" (wings and tail fold into a trailer) and 2) actually being a working, existing, flying car. ;)

Fair points!
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Things that I have learnt through clicking too fast on 'Move Done' on MegaMek: Double-check the CF of the building before jumping onto it, check artillery arrival times before standing in the neighbouring hex, and don't run across your own minefield.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be?
« Reply #179 on: 13 November 2019, 21:06:23 »
I do not know, that little yellow pusher looks like its got some decent altitude for that sort of contraption.

The reason it never caught on was that while it could function as a car and a plane, it didn't function very well as either one and anyone who could afford one could probably also afford a standard car and a standard plane, which was ultimately more useful.
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