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Author Topic: Help with Pocket WarShip  (Read 541 times)

Gray Jaguar

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Help with Pocket WarShip
« on: 08 November 2019, 19:38:58 »
So I have an advanced Periphery Realm game where I am inserting a custom state.  I wanted them to have an unique and interesting flagship in the form of a Pocket WarShip.  As its the Flagship, I was hoping for the maximum tonnage along with some good subcapital and anti-DropShip weapon systems.  No ClanTech or Battle Armor space, but definitely would need some AeroSpace slots.

The problem is that I'm not the best at designing DropShips in the slightest.  Anyone have any suggestions from canon or personal designs they could contribute to the project?  I plan on having my artist wife draw it up at the end, so I as hoping for something unique rather than canon that I'd have to modify.
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
  - Star Colonel Damien Furey

"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
 - Duchess Designate Alice Duvall


Daryk

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #1 on: 08 November 2019, 19:45:18 »
As a flagship, you should invest a few tons in communications gear to get the maximum effects.  Dropships get the equivalent of 3 tons for free as part of their control tonnage, but an additional 4 tons will get you to the magic 7-ton level.

Retry

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #2 on: 08 November 2019, 21:21:03 »
So I have an advanced Periphery Realm game where I am inserting a custom state.  I wanted them to have an unique and interesting flagship in the form of a Pocket WarShip.  As its the Flagship, I was hoping for the maximum tonnage along with some good subcapital and anti-DropShip weapon systems.  No ClanTech or Battle Armor space, but definitely would need some AeroSpace slots.

The problem is that I'm not the best at designing DropShips in the slightest.  Anyone have any suggestions from canon or personal designs they could contribute to the project?  I plan on having my artist wife draw it up at the end, so I as hoping for something unique rather than canon that I'd have to modify.
Sub-Caps are more of a WoB thing but since I don't know the nature of your AU I'll put some in anyways.

Decent enough speed, fairly tough hide, carries 5 SCL-1quad laser batteries that can bracket-fire if the to-hit numbers are poor, decent anti-fighter secondary armament, and tough active defenses including AMS and screen launchers.  Equipped with improved communications equipment, sensors, electronics, and MASH suite to service injured personnel in the event the Dropship docks to a larger Jumpship or Warship, visits the troops down Planetside, or in case on-board crewmen gets WIA.  Comes with 4 Small Craft and an Aerospace Wing, including the command flight.
Code: [Select]
Custom Thingy (Pocket Warship)
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 34,900 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 34,900
Battle Value: 24,563
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 1,270,248,000 C-bills
Fuel: 1,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Heat Sinks: 0 (0)
Structural Integrity: 60
Armor
     Nose: 838
     Sides: 708/708
     Aft: 578
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (20) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Small Craft (4) 2 Doors
Bay 3: Cargo (3797.5 tons) 0 Doors
Escape Pods: 40
Life Boats: 0
Crew: 30 officers, 50 enlisted/non-rated, 66 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 30 marines
Ammunition: 40 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (50 tons), 1,296 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (3 tons), 40 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (30 tons), 90 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (30 tons)
Notes: Mounts 216 tons of standard aerospace armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (272 Heat)
4 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots) 80 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) 8(80) AR10
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1) 96 4(40) 4(40) 4(40) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1) 96 4(40) 4(40) 4(40) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
RS/LS Fwd (92 Heat)
12 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (5184 shots) 12 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
12 ER Medium Laser 60 6(60) 6(60) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
2 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (30 shots) 20 3(30) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
RS/LS Aft (288 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1) 96 4(40) 4(40) 4(40) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1) 96 4(40) 4(40) 4(40) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1) 96 4(40) 4(40) 4(40) 0(0) Sub-Capital Laser
Aft (92 Heat)
12 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (5184 shots) 12 4(36) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
12 ER Medium Laser 60 6(60) 6(60) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
2 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (30 shots) 20 3(30) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher

Other Equipment:
Beagle Active Probe
Guardian ECM Suite
Communications Equipment (4 tons)
Look-Down Radar
Hi-Res Imager
Infrared Imager
MASH Core Component
12x MASH Operational Theatre

Daryk

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #3 on: 09 November 2019, 06:26:25 »
I like it!  Plenty of Point Defense, and all the things that make flagships what they are...  :thumbsup:

Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #4 on: 09 November 2019, 22:37:45 »
Here's something that costs twice as much.

Code: [Select]
Mother Dragon
Type: Military Spheroid
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3075
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 17,549
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 2,580,130,000 C-bills

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Heat Sinks: 556 (1112)
Structural Integrity: 95

Armor
    Nose: 731
    Sides: 731/731
    Aft: 731

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (36)               3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (40)        2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (60)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (4933.0 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,456 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (288 tons),
    60 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (600 tons)

Escape Pods: 50
Life Boats: 50
Crew:  18 officers, 52 enlisted/non-rated, 18 gunners, 392 bay personnel, 30 marines

Notes: Mounts 342 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (81 Heat)
3 Large Pulse Laser                         30   3(27)   3(27)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
3 ER PPC                                    45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Fwd (81 Heat)
3 Large Pulse Laser                         30   3(27)   3(27)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
3 ER PPC                                    45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Aft (112 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                 96   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
1 Screen Launcher                           10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots)
Aft (144 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher                           10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                 128  12(120) 12(120)  0(0)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)

Extra equipment:
4 tons communication equipment
Hyperspectral Satellite Imager
Lookdown Radar Satellite Imager
MASH core + 5x MASH Operation Theater
4x Field Kitchen

The philosophy here differs a bit---it's less of a primary combatant and more of a comprehensive planetary invasion/counterinvasion transport with integral command, sensing, and support.

The 7/11 speed is designed to make the ship faster than anything that can destroy it outright like a full-scale Warship.  Against an ASF swarm, only the lightest of aerospace fighters are capable of keeping up with it without taking structural damage, and for those the weapons array kills with every shot.

The antimissile system provides immunity to essentially all ASF-based missile weapons while considerably mitigating larger missile bays and capital missiles.  The onboard smallcraft complement can further augment point defense if needed.  Due to the very deep heatsinks available almost all of the AMS ammo in an arc can be fired off in a single round (eliminating 1728 points of missile damage) while firing all other weapons. 

The heavy armor is particularly notable on a dropship of this size, and it's particularly suitable when taking into account the regimental scale investment involved in loading the ship.

The aft-side SCL/1 arrays provide a means to slowly disintegrate any opponent lacking capital scale weaponry.  The aft-side arcs are excellent for this, since they cover most of the broadside (good for imposing a to-hit penalty) and aft arcs (good if you need to run awaykeep your distance).

The aft SCL/3 array can savage assault dropships as they approach.  It's real value however comes into play once aerospace superiority is established.  Under that condition, the Mother Dragon can provide accurate and overwhelming fire support using air-to-surface fire without suffering return fire.  120 damage on the shot-from-above table is extraordinarily deadly to ground units. 

The primary purpose however is transporting and servicing a regimental scale unit.  This includes a battalion of mechs, 3 wings of ASF, and 2 wings of smallcraft.  One challenge here is the doors---you only have 9.  To finesse this limitation, heavy use of smallcraft bays are made, since smallcraft can easily transport vehicles and troops while providing advantages for point defense, boarding, and search-and-rescue.   

The integral MASH and field kitchens assist in keeping the regiment healthy while the communications equipment and sensors are obviously useful in directing the action.

Daryk

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #5 on: 09 November 2019, 23:24:53 »
Almost three times the mass for only twice the price?  Nicely done!  :thumbsup:

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #6 on: 10 November 2019, 12:59:18 »
Whoa, both options are amazing for what I had in mind.  As a side note, I wasn't anticipating too many WarShips.  However, other Pocket WarShips were likely.  Regimental deployment is good but the sheer firepower of the first design is also attractive.  The only thing missing is a Naval C3 Option :p
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
  - Star Colonel Damien Furey

"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
 - Duchess Designate Alice Duvall


Retry

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #7 on: 10 November 2019, 13:15:25 »
Whoa, both options are amazing for what I had in mind.  As a side note, I wasn't anticipating too many WarShips.  However, other Pocket WarShips were likely.  Regimental deployment is good but the sheer firepower of the first design is also attractive.  The only thing missing is a Naval C3 Option :p
For NC3, simply take 349 tons (for my version) or 1,000 tons (for his) from the Cargo Bay.

Daryk

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #8 on: 10 November 2019, 13:41:18 »
Doesn't it require extra crew too?

Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #9 on: 10 November 2019, 16:02:09 »
Naval C3 doesn't require extra crew but it about doubles the price.  The cost is high enough that I usually reserve it's use on dropships for spotter designs rather than the mainline combatant designs.

W.r.t. firepower,
(1) The SCL/1 arrays are nice for the ability to whittle away at something at long-capital range, but the actual damage they do is not that high.  For example, a good ASF is entirely comparable. 
(2) The capital missiles are relatively 'meh' on a damage/weight basis compared to an ASF.  They have two virtues though:
  (a) They can be fired at stationary targets from across a stellar system using a bearings-only launch.  Furthermore, multiple launches can be made at slightly different velocities so they all arrive at the same time.
  (b) They are super cheap, which matters significantly given the high cost multiplier of a dropship.

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #10 on: 10 November 2019, 17:40:28 »
Against canon designs of the Sea Foxes, Marian Hegemony, Capellans, Magistracy of Canopus, and the Free Worlds League how do these two designs fare?
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
  - Star Colonel Damien Furey

"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
 - Duchess Designate Alice Duvall


Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #11 on: 10 November 2019, 20:42:13 »
Do ASF matter?  If the answer is yes, then Vengeance (40 fighters), Titan (30 fighters), and Miraborg (30 fighters) are all quite dangerous.   A fighter swarm is incredibly deadly in a slugging match. 

The way to make fighters not matter is to fight a battle of maneuver where you keep distance beyond extreme range and wear down an opponent with SCL/1s. 

If there are no fighters (all of them away?) and you are stuck in a slugging match, then the Isegrim looks pretty dangerous for both designs.

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #12 on: 10 November 2019, 20:54:09 »
Do ASF matter?  If the answer is yes, then Vengeance (40 fighters), Titan (30 fighters), and Miraborg (30 fighters) are all quite dangerous.   A fighter swarm is incredibly deadly in a slugging match. 

The way to make fighters not matter is to fight a battle of maneuver where you keep distance beyond extreme range and wear down an opponent with SCL/1s. 

If there are no fighters (all of them away?) and you are stuck in a slugging match, then the Isegrim looks pretty dangerous for both designs.

What would be needed to keep either design competetive against existing DropShips?
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
  - Star Colonel Damien Furey

"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
 - Duchess Designate Alice Duvall


Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #13 on: 10 November 2019, 22:13:41 »
What would be needed to keep either design competetive against existing DropShips?
You need a killer bay.   It is quite expensive but otherwise possible.

Code: [Select]
Mother Dragon
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3075
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 49,991
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 3,826,522,000 C-bills

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Heat Sinks: 1070 (2140)
Structural Integrity: 95

Armor
    Nose: 731
    Sides: 731/731
    Aft: 731

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (36)               3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (40)        2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (60)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (2897.5 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,456 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (288 tons),
    40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons)

Escape Pods: 50
Life Boats: 50
Crew:  22 officers, 48 enlisted/non-rated, 41 gunners, 392 bay personnel, 30 marines

Notes: Mounts 342 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (1,062 Heat)
6 Anti-Missile System                       12   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    6 Anti-Missile System
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
70 ER PPC                                   1050 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Fwd (81 Heat)
3 Large Pulse Laser                         30   3(27)   3(27)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
3 ER PPC                                    45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Aft (175 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                 96   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
5 Anti-Missile System                        5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
1 Screen Launcher                           10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots)
2 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                 64   6(60)   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
Aft (1,062 Heat)
6 Anti-Missile System                       12   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    6 Anti-Missile System
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
70 ER PPC                                   1050 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  0(0)  PPC         

Extra Equipment:
4 tons communication
Hyperspectral Imager
Look-down Radar
Mash Core + 5x MASH theater
4x Field Kitchen

You only need two such bays, one in the Nose and one Aft to always be able to bring a bay to bear via an ECHO maneuver.   Most dropships are killed by a single hit.  Really tough ones like the Isegrim might survive the first hit.   

Retry

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #14 on: 10 November 2019, 23:09:09 »
You need a killer bay.   It is quite expensive but otherwise possible.

Code: [Select]
Mother Dragon
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3075
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 49,991
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 3,826,522,000 C-bills

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Heat Sinks: 1070 (2140)
Structural Integrity: 95

Armor
    Nose: 731
    Sides: 731/731
    Aft: 731

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (36)               3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (40)        2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (60)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (2897.5 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,456 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (288 tons),
    40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons)

Escape Pods: 50
Life Boats: 50
Crew:  22 officers, 48 enlisted/non-rated, 41 gunners, 392 bay personnel, 30 marines

Notes: Mounts 342 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (1,062 Heat)
6 Anti-Missile System                       12   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    6 Anti-Missile System
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
70 ER PPC                                   1050 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Fwd (81 Heat)
3 Large Pulse Laser                         30   3(27)   3(27)    0(0)    0(0)  Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
3 ER PPC                                    45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Aft (175 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                 96   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
5 Anti-Missile System                        5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
1 Screen Launcher                           10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots)
2 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                 64   6(60)   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
Aft (1,062 Heat)
6 Anti-Missile System                       12   4(36)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    6 Anti-Missile System
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (576 shots)
70 ER PPC                                   1050 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  0(0)  PPC         

Extra Equipment:
4 tons communication
Hyperspectral Imager
Look-down Radar
Mash Core + 5x MASH theater
4x Field Kitchen

You only need two such bays, one in the Nose and one Aft to always be able to bring a bay to bear via an ECHO maneuver.   Most dropships are killed by a single hit.  Really tough ones like the Isegrim might survive the first hit.
Canon dropships and pocket warships are rather unoptimized in the first place, so I'm don't think a cheese bay is strictly necessary.  Gives me an idea, though...

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #15 on: 11 November 2019, 02:36:40 »
Canon dropships and pocket warships are rather unoptimized in the first place, so I'm don't think a cheese bay is strictly necessary.  Gives me an idea, though...

What would you say is necessary then?  Or do you think that either design as is could hold their own?
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
  - Star Colonel Damien Furey

"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
 - Duchess Designate Alice Duvall


Retry

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #16 on: 11 November 2019, 14:58:16 »
What would you say is necessary then?  Or do you think that either design as is could hold their own?
I think they're competitive as-is.  Against canon pocket warships, neither's getting thresholded by most of the small gun bays of Dropships, and often not the big gun bays too.  They both have enough AMS to make them essentially immune to missiles, but canon dropships (including other pocket warships) can't say the same.

My custom thingy has standard armor so putting Heavy Ferro-Aluminum on it would help bolster it.  Consolidating some of the sub-cap lasers into one bay would help give you threshold crits on other Dropships, if that's what you want, though I kind of like the idea of quad laser turrets.  Dipping into cargo a bit for a bunch of extra medium lasers and heat sinks would help against ASF at close quarters.

Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #17 on: 11 November 2019, 17:23:45 »
Isegrim has 671/501/338 armor, is faster, and can deal 327 points of non-missile damage at close range.  It also has 6AMS protecting the nose direction. 

Custom Thingy has 838/708/578 armor, and can deal 180 points of non-missile damage at close range (probably a losing plan), or 140 + 4 KWs ~= 300 (probably winning, but it's close).

Retry

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #18 on: 11 November 2019, 18:50:21 »
Isegrim has 671/501/338 armor, is faster, and can deal 327 points of non-missile damage at close range.  It also has 6AMS protecting the nose direction. 

Custom Thingy has 838/708/578 armor, and can deal 180 points of non-missile damage at close range (probably a losing plan), or 140 + 4 KWs ~= 300 (probably winning, but it's close).
6 AMS is not enough to stop a Killer Whale.  If the Isegrim only has an advantage at ranges under 12 hexes when neglecting the fighter component, I'd call that competitive.  Unless the other fleet consists of only Isegrims, it's got to close in to the Dropship and its supporting flotilla virtually alone (very little else is capable of keeping pace), which would be a very bold play, and will still result in one or two unimpeded rounds of incoming fire due to the range advantage of capital and sub-cap weapons.

Add Heavy Ferro-Aluminum and the armor becomes 1024/901/628, which is a bit more durable.

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #19 on: 11 November 2019, 19:00:15 »
6 AMS is not enough to stop a Killer Whale.  If the Isegrim only has an advantage at ranges under 12 hexes when neglecting the fighter component, I'd call that competitive.  Unless the other fleet consists of only Isegrims, it's got to close in to the Dropship and its supporting flotilla virtually alone (very little else is capable of keeping pace), which would be a very bold play, and will still result in one or two unimpeded rounds of incoming fire due to the range advantage of capital and sub-cap weapons.

Add Heavy Ferro-Aluminum and the armor becomes 1024/901/628, which is a bit more durable.

Do you mind showing me the values for that?  You seem to have a program that helps with the calculations for BV :).  Also, thank you for this insight so far.  So basically, the range element guarantees that an enemy ship of similar BV is going to have a bad day on approach evening any odds due to severe armor loss if ignoring ASF.  When ASF is included, the Custom Thingy would have a significant advantage?
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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #20 on: 11 November 2019, 19:31:34 »
Do you mind showing me the values for that?  You seem to have a program that helps with the calculations for BV :).  Also, thank you for this insight so far.  So basically, the range element guarantees that an enemy ship of similar BV is going to have a bad day on approach evening any odds due to severe armor loss if ignoring ASF.  When ASF is included, the Custom Thingy would have a significant advantage?
I've been using MegaMekLab for the dropships.

ASF does give the Custom Thingy (and also the Mother Dragon) a big advantage in this case, simply because ASF are short-ranged combatants, and the Isegrim can only engage at short range, as its sub-cap missiles are useless against such heavy point-defense.

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #21 on: 11 November 2019, 20:51:58 »
I've been using MegaMekLab for the dropships.

ASF does give the Custom Thingy (and also the Mother Dragon) a big advantage in this case, simply because ASF are short-ranged combatants, and the Isegrim can only engage at short range, as its sub-cap missiles are useless against such heavy point-defense.

So assuming you paired the Custom Thingy with a couple of Merlins then it should be pretty much fine?
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
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"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
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Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #22 on: 11 November 2019, 22:16:07 »
6 AMS is not enough to stop a Killer Whale. 
They are however enough to impose a +2 penalty to hit for the KW flight.   Combined with evasive maneuvers, that means the missiles hit on an 8+ while other weapons hit on a 6+ (assuming a base gunnery of 4) which makes the KW flight worth a discounted (160*15/26 = 92) damage. 

I think the Custom Thingy still wins in expectation, but it's a quite close fight.  Upgrading the armor does help.

Daryk

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #23 on: 11 November 2019, 22:19:33 »
It shouldn't be too hard to add more Point Defenses to either design, I think...

Gray Jaguar

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #24 on: 11 November 2019, 22:46:36 »
It shouldn't be too hard to add more Point Defenses to either design, I think...

Overall though, wouldn't the range help whittle the opposition down?
"Manei Domini think themselves superior because of their unnatural enhancements.  I cannot wait to show them the error of their ways."
  - Star Colonel Damien Furey

"I'm going to found a mercenary outfit, all the cool kids are doing it."
 - Duchess Designate Alice Duvall


Lagrange

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Re: Help with Pocket WarShip
« Reply #25 on: 11 November 2019, 23:34:42 »
Overall though, wouldn't the range help whittle the opposition down?
Range is very helpful if you can hit.  Evasion and the advanced electronic warfare rules makes that potentially more difficult.

 

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