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Author Topic: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!  (Read 2178 times)

Lagrange

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #30 on: 09 December 2019, 11:35:03 »
AMS rounds normally, so 12 is sufficient to take out a killer whale.
Having a bit more could make sense for robustness against battle damage.

Hellraiser

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #31 on: 13 December 2019, 01:18:36 »
Just came across this,  tagging for later.

Have some great ideas for FC
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #32 on: 15 January 2020, 21:30:51 »
Basic Setting: "...and the rise of the Heirs of Steiner-Davion..." This is an alternate setting where Hanse Davion won the Succession Wars and the Inner Sphere was unified under the banner of First Lord Victor Steiner-Davion by 3067. Explaining how that came about would take more bandwidth than the specifics of the challenge itself, so I'll just leave it at this. Everything came up Hanse, the Draconis Combine has become one of the First Lord's most ardent supporters, the Federated Suns (under Katherine) has become one of his most ardent opponents, the Capellan Confederation is under military occupation for rebelling again, it's 3081, and the Star League council has just ratified a naval treaty to prevent an arms race that might bring it all crashing down.


Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to build a navy compliant with the treaty specifications described below for one of the Star League's member states. (Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, Draconis Combine, Free Worlds League, technically the Capellan Confederation I suppose, also the Free Rasalhague Republic and Magistracy of Canopus as minor powers, and the Star League Defense Force as itself). You can assume that this state starts with the fleet it had at roughly the modern height of its naval power in the canon timeline (so just before the jihad for most, or before the Fedcom civil war for the Suns and the Commonwealth, with adjustments where appropriate). The Star League Defense Force has inherited Comstar's entire navy (ten warships, that's all, we swear. What would we be doing with a large fleet?) and received the cruiser Covenant from the Draconis Combine, but beyond that, they're starting with a blank slate. 

Some Questions based on the setting.

1.  By "everything" comes up Hanse, can we assume the 4SW & 39 war happened but with results favored towards the FC side?

2.  How is Kathrine in charge of the FS half of the FC?

3.  Would the SLDF have also absorbed the CC Fleet ships from their "rebellion" ?   So they have those few Destroyers & the Cruisers (Phoenix transated?)


This is mostly for the fluff history I'm giving to each of my designs, which are almost all based on existing FC designs.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Liam's Ghost

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #33 on: 17 January 2020, 03:59:59 »
1.  By "everything" comes up Hanse, can we assume the 4SW & 39 war happened but with results favored towards the FC side?

The key turning point was the War of 3039, where instead of flinching at Theodore's counter attack, Hanse ordered his forces to push on. This allowed Theodore to cause some chaos in the rear, but in the end, he couldn't sustain his operation, the Combine kept losing worlds, and the war ended in an unambiguous defeat for them. It all snowballs from there. Without the humbling affect of not winning the war of 3039 and with the Combine on the back foot, Hanse pressures Candace Liao into usurping her sister or watching the Fedcom annex the Capellan Confederation. With Theodore's methods discredited by the loss of the War of 3039, the DCMS actually becomes more traditional and hidebound, which, combined with the damage from the last war they still hadn't recovered from, sees them get beaten again in the war of 3050. This time they are so badly beaten that Hohiro Kurita (whose dad and granddad are lost in the fighting) formally surrenders in 3057 and acknowledges Victor Steiner Davion as First Lord of the Star League, sealing the compact by marrying his sister Omi to Victor. At this point, the Free Worlds League decides it's better to recognize his claim than try to fight everybody else.

Quote
2.  How is Kathrine in charge of the FS half of the FC?

This was actually the original intention of the Fedcom alliance, with Katherine being regent of the Fed Suns and Peter being Regent of the Commonwealth while Victor ruled over the whole thing. It's why Katherine was raised primarily on New Avalon. Keep in mind that she's still Katherine, just a Katherine whose parents were around a bit longer, giving their children more time to grow, mature, and get experience before they had to rule. So her machinations are more subtle, more refined, but her goals are the same.

Quote
3.  Would the SLDF have also absorbed the CC Fleet ships from their "rebellion" ?   So they have those few Destroyers & the Cruisers (Phoenix transated?)

Yes, though because they were mostly used for Terrorism during the last rebellion and thus have bad PR, the SLDF prefers to keep them in reserve.

Quote
This is mostly for the fluff history I'm giving to each of my designs, which are almost all based on existing FC designs.

Neat. I look forward to it.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Wrangler

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #34 on: 17 January 2020, 09:40:47 »
The key turning point was the War of 3039, where instead of flinching at Theodore's counter attack, Hanse ordered his forces to push on. This allowed Theodore to cause some chaos in the rear, but in the end, he couldn't sustain his operation, the Combine kept losing worlds, and the war ended in an unambiguous defeat for them. It all snowballs from there. Without the humbling affect of not winning the war of 3039 and with the Combine on the back foot, Hanse pressures Candace Liao into usurping her sister or watching the Fedcom annex the Capellan Confederation. With Theodore's methods discredited by the loss of the War of 3039, the DCMS actually becomes more traditional and hidebound, which, combined with the damage from the last war they still hadn't recovered from, sees them get beaten again in the war of 3050. This time they are so badly beaten that Hohiro Kurita (whose dad and granddad are lost in the fighting) formally surrenders in 3057 and acknowledges Victor Steiner Davion as First Lord of the Star League, sealing the compact by marrying his sister Omi to Victor. At this point, the Free Worlds League decides it's better to recognize his claim than try to fight everybody else.

This was actually the original intention of the Fedcom alliance, with Katherine being regent of the Fed Suns and Peter being Regent of the Commonwealth while Victor ruled over the whole thing. It's why Katherine was raised primarily on New Avalon. Keep in mind that she's still Katherine, just a Katherine whose parents were around a bit longer, giving their children more time to grow, mature, and get experience before they had to rule. So her machinations are more subtle, more refined, but her goals are the same.

Yes, though because they were mostly used for Terrorism during the last rebellion and thus have bad PR, the SLDF prefers to keep them in reserve.

Neat. I look forward to it.
Is there a post of this alt-universe's history?
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

marcussmythe

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #35 on: 17 January 2020, 14:30:33 »
*looks around*  Well, I see we've rounded up the usual suspects.

Ill try to find a spreadsheet tuned for the relevant period and look at seeing what an updated, upteched version of of my old design ideas would look like.  Hmm.  I notice were tonnage but not cost limited, so likely assumptions:

Fighter carriage will be maxed (value added)
Docking Collars will be maxed (same)
Cargo likely light, as cargo carriage from warship tonnage eats into warship tonnage, but cargo carriage from droppers, etc. is 'free'.

Hmm.  Im also tempted to revist my 'warships on the cheap' experiment, focusing on avoiding the hyper-expensive collars in favor of cargo, dropshuttles, drop-small-craft, etc.   I know its not in the treaty 'terms', but how much do we care (if at all) about C-Bills?
« Last Edit: 17 January 2020, 14:44:37 by marcussmythe »

Hellraiser

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #36 on: 18 January 2020, 00:30:57 »
Maxed Collars won't happen per his rules.

There is a 2-4-6 limit based on tonnage.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

marcussmythe

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #37 on: 18 January 2020, 07:44:28 »
Maxed Collars won't happen per his rules.

There is a 2-4-6 limit based on tonnage.

Right, max per treaty - every ship should probably have that treaty max of 2 (or 4, or 6) - as we are mass and hull-count limited, but not C-Bill Limited.

Sharpnel

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #38 on: 18 January 2020, 13:16:01 »
Here's my stab at the Canopian Fleet

2 Amazon-class Carrier (600KT)
4 Canopus-class Cruiser (720KT)
4 Bellona-class Light Cruiser (600KT)
4 Artemis-class Destroyer (480KT)
6 Vixen-class Corvettes (200KT)

Here's the Canopus-class Cruiser (HMS Canopus, HMS Marantha, HMS Hardcore, HMS Dunianshire)

Code: [Select]
Canopus-class Cruiser Warship
Mass: 720,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 720,000
Battle Value: 128,273
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 19,621,492,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 180
    Fore Sides: 130/130
    Aft Sides: 130/130
    Aft: 160

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (91164.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (80 tons),
    100 rounds of White Shark ammunition (4,000 tons),
    240 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (192 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  80 officers, 237 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 104 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
1,015 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (620 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (350 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                        270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (1,260 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (90 shots)
3 Naval PPC (Medium)                        405  27(270) 27(270) 27(270) 27(270)  Capital PPC
3 Naval PPC (Medium)                        405  27(270) 27(270) 27(270) 27(270)  Capital PPC
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (335 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
3 Naval Laser 55                            255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (845 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
3 Naval Laser 55                            255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)



Here's the Amazon-class Carrier for starters (HMS Amazon, HMS Riachuelo)

Code: [Select]
Amazon-Class Carrier Warship
Mass: 600,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 600,000
Battle Value: 49,808
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 18,833,683,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 13
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 120
    Fore Sides: 100/100
    Aft Sides: 100/100
    Aft: 120

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 7:  Cargo (91073.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,920 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (160 tons),
    80 rounds of White Shark ammunition (3,200 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  54 officers, 126 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 232 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
747.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (592 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
FRS/FLS (422 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
RBS/LBS (592 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
ARS/ALS (422 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
Aft (592 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       



and the Bellona-class Light Cruiser (HMS Bellona, HMS Boudica, HMS Penthesilea, HMS Majestosa)

Code: [Select]
Bellona-Class Light Cruiser Warship
Mass: 600,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 600,000
Battle Value: 121,896
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 19,048,649,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 13
Heat Sinks: 0
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 110
    Fore Sides: 90/90
    Aft Sides: 90/90
    Aft: 110

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (30000.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons),
    240 rounds of NAC/25 ammunition (2.4 tons),
    60 rounds of White Shark ammunition (120 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  70 officers, 238 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 104 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
673 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (572 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (437 Heat)
3 Naval PPC (Medium)                        405  27(270) 27(270) 27(270) 27(270)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (1,152 Heat)
6 Naval PPC (Medium)                        810  54(540) 54(540) 54(540) 54(540)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (342 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (612 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                        270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)


Artemis-class Destroyer (HMS Artemis, HMS Kali, HMS Hecate, HMS Hippolyta)

Code: [Select]
Artemis-class Destroyer Warship
Mass: 480,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 480,000
Battle Value: 116,331
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 18,397,083,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 11
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 110
    Fore Sides: 85/85
    Aft Sides: 85/85
    Aft: 90

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (16)            4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (31225.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons),
    240 rounds of NAC/25 ammunition (2.4 tons),
    100 rounds of White Shark ammunition (200 tons),
    120 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (2.4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (85 m, 85 m)
Escape Pods: 25
Life Boats: 25
Crew:  55 officers, 145 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 52 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
623 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (280 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (60 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (390 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
1 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 100  30(300) 30(300) 30(300)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (30 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (390 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (375 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
1 Naval Laser 55                            85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (600 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)


Vixen-class Corvette (HMS Vixen, HMS Booker, HMS Weistheimer, HMS Cate's Hold, HMS Thraxa, HMS Royal Foxx)

Code: [Select]
Vixen-class Corvette Warship
Mass: 200,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 200,000
Battle Value: 48,547
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 12,031,326,000 C-bills

Fuel: 3,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Heat Sinks: 2,000
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 60
    Fore Sides: 45/45
    Aft Sides: 45/45
    Aft: 60

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (8)             4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (2)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (8540.0 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (80 tons),
    60 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (24 tons),
    80 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (2,400 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (85 m, 85 m)
Escape Pods: 18
Life Boats: 18
Crew:  34 officers, 66 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 26 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
258 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (268 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (110 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
1 Naval Laser 35                            52   4(35)   4(35)   4(35)     0(0)   Capital Laser
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (368 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (30 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (142 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                            104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (162 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 35                            104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)

« Last Edit: 18 January 2020, 15:40:19 by Sharpnel »
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, VND-1R Vindicator 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka

"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
It's an Omni, so I can build it into whatever I please - JHB
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8269
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #39 on: 18 January 2020, 16:49:14 »
Right, max per treaty - every ship should probably have that treaty max of 2 (or 4, or 6) - as we are mass and hull-count limited, but not C-Bill Limited.

Ah, yes, well in that case, yes, max is very likely since they aren't very large maximums as is.

My "modifications" that I'm working on for FC canon ships are all requiring major changes, in terms of DropShip count.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

marcussmythe

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 788
Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #40 on: 22 January 2020, 12:01:48 »
LCN:

After much debate and several refit proposals for existing craft, the leadership of the Commonwealth settled on a design proposal focusing on all-new construction for their active forces, to be followed by a steady schedule of refits of both active and naval reserve vessels.  First Lord of the Admiralty John Angler Alarion, 17th Earl Angler and Duke Alarion, managed to mobilize the financiers behind the Lyran Shipbuilding interests to pressure for a 'forward looking' approach, stressing the value of regenerating and expanding capabilities in the Lyran Navy.  This of course served the profits of those industries, but also (it was argued) represented the best way to keep the naval design and construction skills and personnel in readiness for expanded future service - history taught well that Naval Construction Treaties lasted only until the first shot is fired, and only the dead know the end of war.

Ironically, given their forward-looking focus, the design inspiration for their naval designs looked back to the early days of the Commonwealth, taking designs long out of service and adapting their concepts for the newer era.  The first of those was to be the pride of the 'New Lyran Navy', the Buri Class Battleships.  This was followed closely by construction of the Tyr class heavy cruiser, Ullr Light Cruisers and the later Heimdaller support frigates.

Fleet Composition:
6x BB Buri (1.5 MT, 3/5, 150 SI, 80xHNPPC, 80 x Lt. Gauss, ELRM/20, HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
12 x CA Tyr (980 KT, 3/5, 150 SI, 36xNAC/20, 32xNL/55, 80 x Lt. Gauss, ELRM/20, HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
12 x CL Ullr (510 KT, 4/6, 120 SI, 32xNL/55, 80 x Lt. Gauss, ELRM/20, HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
30 x FF Heimdallr (100 KT, 5/8, 90 SI, 80x HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
0 x BB Wotan (2.4 MT, 3/5, 100 SI, 80 HNPPC, 180 Fighters, multiple regiment transport - Mass production design study)

This composition fills out the maximum total allowed hulls (60), while using almost all of the allowed tonnage (29.98) and acheving most, but not all, of the maximum dropship carriage on warship hulls (the LCN Carries 192 Dropships on its Warship Hulls.  A hypothetical 10/30/20 navy would carry 220, and more fighters, but it was felt that 'heavy' cruisers and battleships provided enough advantages to justify losing the additional carriage).  More BBs and CAs were desired, but flag showing and peacetime taskings were felt to take precedence, and the high combat staying power of the modern CA and BB hulls was felt to make up for the lack of numbers, especially in combination with combat dropships.

Some dropship designs may be licensed from other powers (-cough- Lagrange)

The Fleet is organized into six squadrons, on paper broken down as follows:
1 Buri BB Mechs, 3 Regiments Vehicles,
2 Tyr CA
2 Ullr CL
5 Heimdallr FF






BB Buri

Code: [Select]
The Buri class was laid down to provide the core of the anticipated LCN Task Forces.  Though officially a
treaty limit Battleship, rumors and leaks of design documents indicated that there was something unusual
about her K-F Core, with excessive cooling and power leads into and out of it.  This lead to a tail-chase of
rumors exploring the idea that the Lyrans were experimenting with some kind of 'superjump' system or
other unknown capacity, and in an unusual fit of competence, the Lyran Intelligence services encouraged
them to jump down this rabbit hole, eventually 'revealing' that the Naval Architects of the LCN had tried for
something special, failed, and ended up with an overdesigned, inefficient FTL Drive for their flagship class.

The truth was, as usual, somewhat more prosaic.  Too many cooks had their hands in the stew, and by the
time the first hull was nearing completion, it was realized that she was somewhat over designed mass (thus
requiring the KF Core refit).  Rather than rebuild from ground zero, her flight decks were intentionally under-
equipped with fighter service bays, and large sections of her cargo bays were consigned to 'dead space' in
the hull, unused and unaccounted for.  While this requires the LCN to be somewhat cagey about how close it
lets other powers to her hull and design specs, for fear of sanctions from the Star League, it does allow them
to quickly install the additional fighter capacity and open the doors on her cargo space, expanding the short
ranged defensive BB into a reasonable cruiser BBV as an 'instant breakout', if another navy is found to be
violating the treaty.

Even in her peacetime configuration, Buri is a solid, if somewhat uninspired, treaty battleship.  With the
usual treaty-maximum parasite craft, she focuses on maximizing armored resilience and long range
firepower.  With the same extreme range firepower (and better broadside fire) than the venerable McKenna
(so often a yardstick for Battleship design), coupled with over three times the armored protection, the Buri
are designed to operate in squadrons, using massed fires from their bracketed, C3-Enabled PPC Batteries to
deliver decisive fires from outside enemy engagement ranges.


((Out of character note - the Buri is a tip of my hat to both my beloved and unused design from the old warship
design race challenge, and also to the very real tendency of every naval power to 'game' naval treaties - arguments
about how ships are to be weighed, at what load, as well as deception, lies, overbuilding, and the like, along with
claimed violations, escalator clauses.. the gamesmanship that went on around the IRL Washington Treaties is really
interesting if your the sort of person that cares about such things))


Buri Class Battleship
Mass: 1,550,000 (1,500,000 Official)
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3083
Battle Value: 283366
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 41,905,542,000

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 7
KF Drive Integrity: 31
Heat Sinks: 8480 (16,960)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 570
    Fore Sides: 900/900
    Aft Sides: 900/900
    Aft: 570

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 10 Doors
                60 Fighters (Offically 30)
                15 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 10 Doors
                60 Fighters (Offically 30)
                15 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                96 Battle Armor Marines (2 Companies)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 3 Doors
                Cargo: 43,937 Tons (Offically 5,000 Tons)

Ammunition:
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 2 (120 m)
Escape Pods: 200
Life Boats: 200
Crew:  96 officers, 385 enlisted/non-rated, 240 bay personnel, 96 BA marines, 120 Passengers

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     Naval C3
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Difficult to Maintain
    Hard to Pilot
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Improved Targeting (Long)
Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)

FL, FR, AL, AR
20 HNPPC in 5 bays of 4



CA Tyr

Code: [Select]
As the first Buri keel was being laid, the design work for the follow on Cruiser class, Tyr, was being completed.
Realizing that Buri was destined to be overweight, Tyr sacrified her intended NGauss armament for a lighter array of
NAC and NL mounts.  Though this cost her some of her combat range, it allowed her to maintain firepower while
ensuring the final design was, if only slightly, UNDER the maximum mass allowed by treaty, with some room for
growth.   Intended to serve as support for the heavier Buri as well as capable of independent cruising operations, Tyr
shared the point-defense suite of her larger predecessor at a 1:1 ratio, as well as matching all of Buri's extensive
electronics suite.  Unlike her larger sister, she is a more balanced combatant, mounting 6 triple NAC/20 turrets on
each flank, supported by a pair of quad NL/55s intended to strengthen her anti-fighter array as well as giving her a
bit more reach.  The NACs allow Tyr to retain most of Buri's throw weight at only a moderate cost in range and
accuracy, whilst still out-reaching the NAC/30 mounts common on most vessels.

Tyr Class Heavy Cruiser
Mass: 980,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3084
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 32,308,302,000

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 20
Heat Sinks: 7440 (14880)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 530
    Fore Sides: 500/500
    Aft Sides: 500/500
    Aft: 500

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                48 Battle Armor Marines (1 Company)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 3 Doors
                Cargo: 25,662

Ammunition:
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20
  1,440 Tons NAC/20

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (90 m)
Escape Pods: 80
Life Boats: 80
Crew:  74 officers, 297 enlisted/non-rated, 120 bay personnel, 48 BA marines, 20 Passengers

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     Naval C3
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Easy to Maintain
    Docking Arms

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)

FL, FR, AL, AR
9 NAC/20 in 3 bays of 3 (900 Rnds)
8 NL/55 in 2 bays of 4

CL Ullr

Code: [Select]
The Ullr Class of Light Cruisers grew out of a design study for a large, fast cruiser, focusing on naval lasers and PPCs
to engage opposing vessels from outside the range of effective reply - as well as carrying sufficient thrust to enable
them to maintain that range.  Whilst the Heavy Cruiser design space was eventually given over to the Tyr class and
its focus on heavy armor and battleline support, designers recognized the value of a fast, tough, long-ranging light
cruiser to serve as a picket and patrol vessel for the navy, as well as providing the core of any light force squadrons.
 It carries the now-standard layered anti-aircraft arsenal typical of the Lyran naval Services.  This was questioned by
some officers as extravagant and overly expensive, given the ever smaller vessels it is fitted with, but the cost in
both mass and resources was low, particularly because the standard AAA package has evolved over the years into a
single set of 'plug and play' modules that slot into standard fittings on the ships that carry them.  Anti-ship
armament is light for a vessel of its size, but unlike her larger sisters, Ullr is not meant to involve herself in knock-
down fights with other capital ships.  The continued presence of lavish C&C facilities, including sensors,
communications, battlecomputers, and the exorbitantly expensive Mobile HPG was also questions, but eventually
justified given the ships role as squadron leaders and scouts.  As always on modern Lyran vessels, cargo is light and
lithium fusion batteries are standard, but it is the policy of the navy that it is cheaper in both c-bills and combat
power to carry supplies on dropships, and cheaper to have ships that can cover more space more quickly via their
LF-Batteries, especially given the lavish outlays of recharge stations being produced to multiply the mobility of
lithium-fusion ships.

Ullr Class Light Cruiser
Mass: 510,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3085
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 28,510,102,000

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 4640 (9280)

Structural Integrity: 120

Armor
    Nose: 200
    Fore Sides: 220/220
    Aft Sides: 220/220
    Aft: 200

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                48 Battle Armor Marines (1 Company)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 3 Doors
                Cargo: 14,766

Ammunition:
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20
 

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (90 m)
Escape Pods: 40
Life Boats: 40
Crew:  48 officers, 193 enlisted/non-rated, 120 bay personnel, 48 BA marines, 20 Passengers

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     Naval C3
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Easy to Maintain
    Docking Arms

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)

FL, FR, AL, AR
8 NL/55 in 2 bays of 4

FF Heimdaller

Code: [Select]
Though officially an FF, the Heimdaller would more properly be described as a Corvette, or perhaps a support ship. 
Blazingly fast, lightly armored (for a Lyran vessel) and almost unarmed by the standards of capital ships, the
Hiemdaller is a fast scout and raider.  With no capital weapons, and with the ELRMs and Light Gauss Rifles of the
'LCN Standard' AAA fit withdrawn to save mass, she presents only a limited threat to all but the lightest of hostile
warships.  Even so, a broadside of 40 Capacitor-Fed ERPPCs is sufficient to chew up fighter squadrons and
overwhelm most 'pocket' warships, but those are not her purpose - her purpose is her combination of speed,
sensors, and strategic mobility.  Though cargo carriage is light, her own small size and ability to potentially carry
twice her mass again in cargo-focused dropships allows her potentially unmatched endurance.  In such a profile, the
Heimdallr would jump into hostile systems outside of the standard points, leaving her cargo tonnage behind, hidden
in the darkness, while she conducts high speed recon, security, or raiding missions within the system.  Lacking the
LNCSS and Mobile HPG of the larger Lyran warships somewhat detracts from her mission in this regard, but looking
at the cost of those systems on vessels of such a small size, the budget analysts of the Commonwealth finally put
their feet down.

Heimdallr Class Frigate
Mass: 100,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3085
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 11,680,000,000

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 1680 (3360)

Structural Integrity: 90

Armor
    Nose: 50
    Fore Sides: 50/50
    Aft Sides: 50/50
    Aft: 50

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 3 Doors
                10 Fighters
                5 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 3 Doors
                10 Fighters
                5 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                16 Battle Armor Marines (1 Squad)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 2 Doors
                Cargo: 2,007 Tons

Ammunition:
    160 Tons AMS
 

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m)
Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 20
Crew:  17 officers, 68 enlisted/non-rated, 60 bay personnel, 16 BA marines

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Easy to Maintain
    Docking Arms

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 AMS  (480 Rnds)


As production was being finalized, and cost analysis being conducted, the shipwrights of the LCN put together an unorthodox proposal for an 'unlimited', wartime battleship.  By removing the exorbitantly expensive drop-collars, Naval C3 Suite, and the mobile HPG, it was found that a larger version of the Buri with similar antiship firepower, but otherwise superior in every respect, could be produced for a cost similar to the (admitted expensive!) light cruisers.  Intended to go into serial production at the first crack in the naval treaty, they would supplant the existing navy with units that could do a Battleships job, and more, in the wall of battle, while saving the cost of dropcollars and dropships by meeting the dropship roles of carrying cargo, troops, fighter coverage, and the like inside the enlarged warship - reducing costs and unshackling the military offensive from slow, equisitely vulnerable jumpships and fragile dropships.  Carrying a full regiment of battlements, along with a regiment of heavy tanks and two regiments of light vehicles, along with the three regiments of battle armor that ride into combat in those vehicles, combat delivery provided by the two full regiments of small craft, able to carry the entire complement to ground in three sorties from orbit, and can carry a further 12 Kilotons of supplies down from orbit each trip, keeping field units supplied from the 150KT Cargo Bay of the Wotan.  If necessary, the two regiments of small craft bays can be filled by areofighter, raising the vessels complement to 300, but the full division of 180 aerospace fighters was deemed sufficient for almost all circumstances.

Accommodations are comfortable to the point that some would call them lavish, with even the lowest ranking soldier or mechanic bunking in second class crew quarters.  Though somewhat expensive in terms of space, this was considered a worthwhile sacrifice in the name of endurance and crew performance.

While the Wotan's capital battery is no better than that of her smaller cousin, the anti-fighter batteries were heavily supplemented, with a total of 80 Long Tom Cannon and Silver Bullet Gauss Rifles added to the existing 'Lyran Standard' AAA Array.  Not overlooked was the fact that these expanded PDS arrays also contributed significant anti-ship fire against any vessel trying to run under the Wotan's guns.

Proposals exist for producing networked command versions, with expanded passenger berthing and the NC3 and HPG capabilities reinstalled, though it is felt at this time that the near 50% increase in per-hull costs defeats the point of the Wotan proposal.

BB Wotan

Code: [Select]

Wotan Class Battleship
Mass: 2,400,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3090
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 20,852,412,000

Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 46
Heat Sinks: 11,680   (23,360)
Structural Integrity: 100

Armor
    Nose: 700
    Fore Sides: 865/865
    Aft Sides: 865/865
    Aft: 700

Cargo
    Bay 1:  FR, 8 Doors
                90 Fighters
                5000 Tons Cargo

    Bay 2:  FL, 8 Doors
                90 Fighters
                5,000 Tons Cargo

    Bay 3:  LBS, 6 Doors
               60 Small Craft
               108 Light Vehicles
               108 Heavy Vehicles
               24 Battle Armor Marines
               648 Battle Armor Troops
               5,000 Tons Cargo
                           
    Bay 4:  RBS, 6 Doors
               60 Small Craft
               108 Light Vehicles
               108 Battlemechs
               24 Battle Armor Marines
               648 Battle Armor Troops
               5,000 Tons Cargo

   Bay 5:  Aft Left, 2 Doors
              71,864 Tons Cargo

   Bay 6:  Aft Right, 2 Doors
              71,864 Tons Cargo

Ammunition:
    4000 Tons Screen Launcher
    8000 Tons Piranaha
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20
    800 Tons SB Gauss Rifle
    800 Tons Long Tom Cannon

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 3 (200 m)
Escape Pods: 1000
Life Boats: 1000
Crew:  161 officers, 643 enlisted/non-rated, 2388 bay personnel, 48 BA marines, 2,592 Troops

Notes:
     Lithium-Fusion Battery
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 Pirana Sub-Capital Missile (200 Rnds)
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 Long Tom Cannon (1,000 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 SB Gauss Rifle (1,600 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)
10 Screen Launchers (100 Rnds)


FL, FR, AL, AR
20 HNPPC in 5 bays of 4
« Last Edit: 24 January 2020, 00:03:32 by marcussmythe »

Lagrange

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 486
Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #41 on: 24 January 2020, 16:25:06 »
With 6 sets of designs, I though it would be interesting to compare them.   

Doing this in a way which is concise and meaningful is delicate. 

My favored approach compares the geometric mean (= square root) of the armor and damage to form a number which measures the ability to survive a slugging contest.  This number is additive: you can get a fair estimate of which side will win a slugging contest battle by adding up this number for each side. 

Of course there are many caveats:
Preferred direction: Warships almost always have a preferred direction, often Broadside, but sometimes Nose.  This can be dealt with by computing the number for each possible preferred direction while taking into account overlapping arcs, hit tables, and structural integrity, then taking the maximum.  The Broadside is typically a superior preferred direction due to a better critical table, more arcs, and a slightly higher to-hit number.  The Aft is the worst preferred direction.
Average direction: Warships don't always get to choose their preferred facing, particularly in close combat.  To deal with this we can compute the average.
Thrust: Thrust has an enormous effect on the ability to either hold or close range as preferred.
Range: Weapons with more range are generally more usable.  Taking 52 hexes as a baseline, we can compute the average damage out to 52 hexes.  In other words, an ER large laser does .8*19/52 average damage over the range.
Max Range: The maximum range of weapons can have a huge tactical effect when the faster ship has greater range and otherwise is relatively meaningless.
Battle Armor: Boarding parties are an underhanded tactic that can be quite effective.  Having marines on board greatly helps against this.  Of course, auxilliary craft can carry more marines as well.
Missile: Many ships are effectively immune to missiles via massed AMS fire.  This can be taken into account by discounting missile-based weapons and noting which warships are missile immune.  Battle damage and auxiliaries can change this significantly.   All other ships are missile resistant in that a sufficient number of them stacked together creates missile immunity.
Naval C3: Naval C3 can have a dramatic effect on the chance of hitting at long or extreme range. 
Screen Launcher: Screen Launchers provide tactical flexibility to close with long-ranged opponents while avoiding fire or to block off one opponent while concentrating fire on another.
Carrier: Carrier designs provide very significant firepower through their fighter complement rather than their weapons.
Kinetic: Warships with more than half kinetic damage have a substantial advantage in high speed engagements.
HPG: Ships with an HPGs can greatly shorten command loops affecting strategic scale operations.
S/L NCSS: Ships with a Large or Small Naval Commscanner Suite have improved detection abilities which provide extra warning or the option to decline combat.

Essentially everyone mounts maximum collars, smallcraft, and fighters while using Lithium Fusion batteries.  The numbers in parens are taking into account only capital scale weapons.

Amongst the minor powers, the Canopians use the Broadside arc and otherwise look like:
Canopus CruiserAmazon CarrierBellona Light CruiserArtemis DestroyerVixen Corvette
Chosen Arc264(261)163(160)232(232)198(195)111(108)
Average Arc195(192)146(143)168(167)158(155)76(73)
Cost (B)19.618.81918.412
Count42446
Tonnage720K600K600K480K200K
Thrust3/53/54/64/64/6
Max Range5252525244
Carrier
The total cost warships is 338B.

And for the TCN has all ships with Screen Launchers, Naval C3, no dropship collars, and an LNCSS, otherwise it looks like:
Anvil "Pocket Battleship"Crown CarrierHammer Raider/Destroyer
Chosen Arc842(752) Nose191(83) Broadside170(75) Broadside
Average Arc537(251)150(61)134(55)
Cost (B)14.510.28.9
Count1028
Tonnage735K425K225K
Thrust3/55/85/8
Max Range565656
Battle Armor1004848
Missile ImmuneMissile Immune
KineticCarrier
The total cost of warships is 237B.

For the Outworlds Alliance, all designs are Broadside and Kinetic and otherwise:
Cerberus CarrierElias Heavy CruiserAlpheratz DestroyerPulsar Corvette
Chosen Arc257(254)360(357)160(158)125(123)
Average Arc208(205)279(276)108(105)97(96)
Cost (B)21.121.71912.7
Count22412
Tonnage960K960K510K320K
Thrust3/53/54/64/6
Max Range44485244
Marines128646464
LNCSS, CarrierLNCSSLNCSSSNCSS
The total cost is 314B.

Amongst the major powers, the LCN has all ships Missile Immune and prefer the Broadside arc, otherwise:
Buri BattleshipTyr Heavy CruiserUllr Light CruiserHeimdaller Frigate
Chosen Arc1142(1122)721(701)210(173)61(0)
Average Arc800(780)567(544)174(132)60(0)
Cost (B)41.932.328.511.7
Count6121230
Tonnage1550K900K510K100K
Thrust3/53/54/65/8
Max Range52525223
Battle Armor96484816
Naval C3 HPG LNCSSNaval C3 HPG LNCSSNaval C3 HPG LNCSSSNCSS
Kinetic
The total cost of warships is 1332B.

For the DCN all ships have LNCSS, prefer the Broadside arc, and use Naval C3.  Otherwise
Nagato BattleshipAtago Heavy CruiserFubuki Destroyer
Preferred Arc670 (670)552 (552)168 (165)
Average Arc538(538)429(429)138(134)
Cost (B)30.423.214.7
Count51530
Tonnage1200K900K350K
Thrust3/53/53/5
Max Range525248
Marines10010050
Screen Launchers, KineticScreen Launchers
The total cost is 941B.

For the FedCom, every warship is Broadside and has Screen Launchers and otherwise:
Fox IIDurendal Destroyer/EscortAvalon II CruiserAvalon III CarrierMjolnir II Battleship
Chosen Arc147 (139)172 (166)297 (290)297 (290)574 (561)
Average Arc118 (109)136 (129)243 (236)243 (236)457 (449)
Cost (B)12.213.2202028.4
Count308686
Tonnage240K430K770K770K1350K
Thrust3/54/64/64/64/6
Max Range4852484852
Battle Armor28 Marines16646464+336 Marines
KineticKineticKineticCarrierKinetic
The total cost is 922B.

The SLDF has all ships Missile Immune with an LNCSS and otherwise:
Warspite BattleshipVanguard CruiserSpeedy DestroyerResolute FrigateGlorious CarrierSquirrel Corvette
Chosen Arc608(602) Broadside385(382) Broadside111(87) Broadside348(345) Broadside158(152) Broadside62(53) Nose/Aft
Average Arc469(462)299(295)104(65)271(268)125(117)57(35)
Cost (B)3122.49.416.216.114.8
Count208408108
Tonnage1500K750K500K500K500K150K
Thrust2/34/66/93/53/56/9
Max Range525248523648
Battle Armor201216121220
HPGHPGScreen Launchers, no dropshipsHPGCarrier HPGHPG
The total cost of warships is 1584.2B? (Not sure I have counts right.)

Looking through, the LCN Buri stands out as clearly the highest scoring ship. 

The Canopians have the more 'primitive' ships due to lack of advanced electronics. Despite this, the Artemis Destroyer scores highest in the 500- category.

The SLDF has both the slowest and fastest designs.

The TCN's Anvil scores highest in the 1000K-500K category although at the cost of missile immunity and a Nose instead of Broadside arc.

Both the DCN and LCN have eschewed carriers.

(edited to include DCN and capital only weapons + added FedCom)
« Last Edit: 02 February 2020, 09:42:15 by Lagrange »

Smegish

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 235
Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #42 on: 24 January 2020, 18:09:46 »
And now I'm gonna make you redo that table to add my ships :P

Finally getting around to this, didn't do it before because I kept having writers block for the fluff, but you'll at least get stats.

To simplify production and maintenance, and to help keep per-unit costs down, the DCA fleet standardized as much as possible, with the entire fleet having LF Batteries; a Large NCSS; Naval C3; Lamellor Ferro-Carbide armour and the same calibre guns of each type (NPPCs, NACs and NLs). AMS is also standard, but it was decided to leave the job of Anti-ASF to the Fubuki DDs as well as the fleets ASF and Dropship complement, thus no standard-scale guns are mounted on the Atago or Nagato.

The standardization of the fleets guns went as far as using the same 3-gun turrets on every ship, with the only difference between a Fubuki's NL turret and a Nagato's NL turret being the outer layer of armour. This once again aids construction and maintenance, allowing repair yards to just remove a damaged turret and install a new one from their supply of spares, without having to worry about which ship it was made for.

Nagato-class Battleship

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Nagato
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $30,416,973,604.00
Magazine Cost: $14,400,000.00
BV2: 172,097

Mass: 1,200,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
15 Naval AC 20
30 Naval PPC Heavy
24 Naval Laser 45
42 AMS (IS)

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Nagato
Mass: 1,200,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 216,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 3,000.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (25 Integrity) 555,000.00
Jump Sail: (6 Integrity) 90.00
Structural Integrity: 140 168,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 4686(9372) Double 3,984.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 3444 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 3,360.00
Fore: 574
Fore-Left/Right: 574/574
Aft-Left/Right: 574/574
Aft: 574

Dropship Capacity: 6 6,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 30 210.00
Life Boats: 30 210.00

Crew And Passengers:
62 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 620.00
223 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 1,561.00
81 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 567.00
150 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 1st Class Passengers 200.00
60 2nd Class Passengers 420.00
100 Steerage Marines 500.00

Bay #1 - Fighters (60) - 5 Doors
Bay #2 - Small Craft (6) - 1 Door
Bay #3 - Cargo (62,597 Tons) - 2 Doors

Large NCSS
Naval C3
Naval AC 20 Ammo (600 Rounds/40 per gun)
AMS Ammo (10 tons per gun)

Code: [Select]
Nose:
2x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Fore Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Broadside:
2x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret

Aft Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Aft:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Atago-class Heavy Cruiser
Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Atago
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $23,164,381,604.00
Magazine Cost: $21,360,000.00
BV2: 128,956

Mass: 900,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
21 Naval AC 20
33 Naval Laser 45
12 Naval PPC Heavy
6 Screen Launcher
42 AMS (IS)

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Atago
Mass: 900,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 162,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 2,250.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (19 Integrity) 416,250.00
Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 75.00
Structural Integrity: 130 117,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 3186(6372) Double 2,572.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 2418 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 2,340.00
Fore: 402
Fore-Left/Right: 404/404
Aft-Left/Right: 404/404
Aft: 400

Dropship Capacity: 4 4,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 30 210.00
Life Boats: 30 210.00

Crew And Passengers:
51 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 510.00
174 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 1,218.00
78 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 546.00
140 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 1st Class Passengers 200.00
60 2nd Class Passengers 420.00
100 Steerage Marines 500.00

Bay #1 - Fighters (40) - 4 Doors
Bay #2 - Small Craft (6) - 1 Door
Bay #3 - Cargo (47337 Tons) - 2 Doors

Large NCSS
Naval C3
Naval AC/20 Ammo (840 Rounds/40 per gun)
AMS Ammo (10 Tons per gun)
Screen Launcher Ammo (120 Rounds/20 per gun)

Code: [Select]
Nose:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
2x1 Screen launchers - 3 Dmg - 10 Heat
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Fore Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Broadside:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
2x1 Screen Launchers - 3 Dmg - 10 Heat

Aft Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Aft:
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Fubuki-class Destroyer

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Fubuki
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $14,657,139,604.00
Magazine Cost: $18,100,000.00
BV2: 52,087

Mass: 350,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
9 Screen Launcher
45 Naval Laser 45
54 LRM 20 (IS)
42 AMS (IS)
54 Laser Large Pulse (IS)
8 Capital Launcher Killer Whale

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Fubuki
Mass: 350,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 63,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 875.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (9 Integrity) 161,875.00
Jump Sail: (4 Integrity) 48.00
Structural Integrity: 80 28,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 2161(4322) Double 1,762.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 6,155.20
Armor: 608 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 560.00
Fore: 100
Fore-Left/Right: 102/102
Aft-Left/Right: 102/102
Aft: 100

Dropship Capacity: 2 2,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 20 140.00
Life Boats: 20 140.00

Crew And Passengers:
36 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 360.00
79 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 553.00
93 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 651.00
70 Bay Personnel 0.00
1st Class Passengers 0.00
2nd Class Passengers 0.00
50 Steerage Marines 250.00

Bay #1 - Fighters (20) - 4 Doors
Bay #2 - Small Craft (6) - 1 Door
Bay #3 - Cargo (19590 Tons) - 1 Door

Large NCSS
Naval C3
Killer Whale Ammo (80 Missiles)
Screen Launcher Ammo (30 Per Gun)
LRM 20 Ammo (10 Tons per Gun)
AMS Ammo (10 Tons per Gun)

Code: [Select]
Nose:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x1 Screen Launcher - 3 Dmg/gun - 10 Heat/gun
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Fore Left/Right:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Broadside:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x1 Screen Launcher - 3 Dmg/gun - 10 Heat/gun
4x1 Killer Whale Launchers - 4 Dmg/tube - 20 Heat/tube

Aft Left/Right:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Aft:
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat
« Last Edit: 24 January 2020, 21:42:17 by Smegish »

Lagrange

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #43 on: 24 January 2020, 21:05:21 »
Updated.  What are the aft turrets of the Atago and Nagato?  It's a little ambiguous.

Hellraiser

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #44 on: 24 January 2020, 21:28:32 »
I think he's breaking those into "bays" so instead of a 9xLRM single bay, its 3 Bays of Triple LRMs.

Or at least that is how I'm reading it.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

marcussmythe

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #45 on: 24 January 2020, 21:36:45 »
Lagrange - consider including SI, as it correlates so strongly with resilience?

Also, Im wondering if firepower figures are being inflated some by the massive AAA arrays that (sadly) in RAW make such brutal anti-ship armament at close range, for their tonnage.

Hellraiser

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #46 on: 24 January 2020, 21:39:27 »
Maybe a good idea to break that down into Capital & Standard scale brackets for better comparison.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #47 on: 24 January 2020, 21:41:14 »
Don't forget fire control tonnage... that acts as something of a brake on non-capital weapons...

Smegish

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #48 on: 24 January 2020, 21:41:40 »
Updated.  What are the aft turrets of the Atago and Nagato?  It's a little ambiguous.

Whoops, stuffed that up a bit. fixed now

marcussmythe

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #49 on: 24 January 2020, 22:47:10 »
Don't forget fire control tonnage... that acts as something of a brake on non-capital weapons...

Sadly, it mostly serves as a break on mixing capital and non-capital armaments.  You can get utterly obscene counts of standard scale weaponry, and absorb the FC mass, because standard scale weapons are so damage efficient compared to capital weapons (which are terrible in that regard)

This lead to some house ruling discussions in the Warship Race last year, which are outside our scope here, but were aimed at (drastically) decreasing the value of standard scale weapons against capital scale armor.

Lagrange

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #50 on: 25 January 2020, 00:47:59 »
For Smegish, I updated the DCN breakdowns and fixed an error in my Fubuki calculations.

For marcussmythe, SI is included.  The precise way it should be included is a little bit ambiguous.  Optimistically, you could think of it as adding lots of armor to each facing, but that isn't quite right since it's a central pool and you have many more criticals once you start taking SI damage.  Instead I treated 2*SI as added to the armor _after_ grossing up the armor according to the hit table.  So, a warship with no armor would be taken as having 2*SI armor, for example.

W.r.t. standard scale weapons balance, the TCN designs use them heavily.  They are potent, but not as badly out of place as you might expect given damage/weight, at least according to the scoring rubric used here.   Partly, this is because of the significant range discount that standard weapons suffer.   Partly also the FC tonnage adds up quickly when using Naval C3.  Given the hefty cost of the smallest warship, it seems ok balancewise if they can take advantage of standard scale weapons, as per the Hammer design.  The role of standard weapons falls off significantly once you get above 500K tons.  Altogether, standard weapons on warships aren't terrible for balance in my opinion. 

The place where standard scale weapons fall apart balancewise is on ASF.  If a light carrier (<500K tons is easy) launches 200 heavy ASF each of which can inflict 5 capital damage/round, you get a piranha death swarm that can rapidly kill pretty much any warship regardless of size.  Even when you stick serious AAA weapons on a warship, you really can't build a warship that's sufficiently capable of resisting the ASF swarm.  The only defenses are being fast enough to avoid the heavy ASF (5/8 maybe, 6/9 probably, 7/11 definitely), generating your own piranha death swarm, or if they happen to get very close and you have an excessive number of screen launchers you can AoE them. 

The other absurdity here is just the damage scaling from a realism perspective.  Generally, the amount of damage that a weapon does should at least scale with the weapon.  When that doesn't happen, the weapon isn't even built.  I personally prefer the house rules discussed here since they seem both more realistic and more balanced.

For Hellraiser: W.r.t. scoring rubrics, trading off correctness of a scoring approach vs. the complexity is rather delicate as information must be lost in making a simplification.  Is the standard vs. capital scale important enough to merit the complexification?  Probably not in warship/warship combat, but plausibly yes in Warship/ASF combat.   Also, in Warship/ASF combat, the Warship missiles are not neglectable as I did here.   Anyways, if you want to take a stab at it, feel free to use the spreadsheet as a starting place.

marcussmythe

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #51 on: 25 January 2020, 16:45:09 »
1.)  If I had the time, an ‘expected damage by range’ chart for each weapon, worked into the ship construction spreadsheet, and with basic assumptions selectable (bracketing?  Evasive?  Etc.) would be very useful.

2.)  GDI to heck, looking at that naval rebalancing thread and then the old warship race thread has me missing that thing.  That was too much fun.  If I ever run out of other hobbies I may try to pick back up with what Alsadius did, and incorporate the lessons learned.  He already did most of the hardest work.  Of course, like the rest of us, I -MOST- wish someone -ELSE- would.

Daryk

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #52 on: 25 January 2020, 18:10:58 »
If the Solaris Skunk Werks guys ever get time for WarShips, I hope they incorporate that into the first version...

Lagrange

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #53 on: 25 January 2020, 21:29:33 »
I realized doing capital-only was relatively easy, so I updated with numbers in brackets using capital only armor.  The DCN designs are the least impacted while several lighter designs end up severely crimped when discounting standard weapons (of course, if those were the rules then different designs would have been proposed...).

I also revisited my calculations around standard weapons, and I'm going to have to concur that they are unbalanced even on warships.  For example, a 5/8 1M ton ship with 150SI, Naval C3, and a Lithium Fusion battery using IS ER PPC+capacitors could close to point blank range against the vast majority of warships using screen launchers for cover and then inflict ~1400 capital damage.  That's plausibly rather unbalanced.

Yeah, the warship design challenge was quite a bit fun  :)

Hellraiser

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #54 on: 26 January 2020, 05:43:57 »
The treaty further breaks down WarShips into the broad categories of battleships, massing no more than 1,500,000 tons; cruisers, massing no more than 1,000,000 tons, and lesser vessels, massing no more than 500,000 tons. An additional subcategory of carrier warships is also included.

Warships have additional restrictions on their supporting units based on their classification. Battleships may not mount more than six docking collar, nor have hangar space for more than sixty aerofighters and thirty small craft. Cruisers may not mount more than four docking collars, nor may they have hangar space for more than forty aerofighters or twenty small craft. Lesser vessels are limited to two docking collars, twenty fighters, and ten small craft.

A carrier warship has the same docking collar limitation as its size category, however it may carry up to 120 aerospace fighters and thirty small craft.

In addition, all warships, dropships, and jumpships of all types are limited to a maximum battery of ten capital or subcapital missile launchers, with no more than ten missiles in the ready magazine per launcher.

WarShips currently in service with signatory powers that violate these treaty restrictions receive a five year grace period, at the end of which they must either be brought to compliance through modification or removed from service (the collar limitation will get lots of guys, but the flight deck limitation will make a Thera cry).

*Standard Jumpships are regulated by the treaty only by setting the maxiumum mass of any future designs at 300,000 tons. Any standard jumpships larger than this currently in service may be retained, and any such ships currently under construction at the time of the treaty's ratification may be completed.



Treaty limitations on fleet size:

Each major power may operate up to sixty total warships (as defined above), massing no more than 30,000,000 tons in total. In addition, each major power may field no more than ten battleship and thirty cruiser class ships, and they are entitled to six carrier class vessels from among this total.

Minor powers may operate a fleet of up to twenty total warships, massing a total of ten million tons, of which half may be cruiser class vessels and two may be carriers.


As many know the FedCom pushed heavily into mass production of just a few different models unlike their Kurita/Marik neighbors. 
The Fox was basically a "test" design to get their feet wet that would support the Army as an armed transport.  With the small #s of Warships able to be created initially the FC pushed for very durable models able to "do everything" & disregarded many of the standards that older SLDF era ships were constructed with.
Logistics were a huge problem in creating any of the FC warships & weapons were a mixed batch of types on every design.  The FWL & DC were both creating notably larger craft than the FC had on the drawing boards.  Changes were made to design plans for the Avalon & Mjolnir Class "Light" Cruisers.  The Avalon was shifted to be a Missile Cruiser with massive fuel tanks.  Designers hopped that Armor Piercing Warheads & a flotilla of Fighters & Assault Dropships would make it a match for larger foreign power ships.   Meanwhile the Mjolnir went through several revisions to increase its firepower & size till it became the largest ship produced by any IS nation.  However, it was a logistical nightmare to create or arm & designers failed to utilize Lithium Fusion batteries or sufficient cargo holds to support an invasion fleet.  The Durendal class Heavy Destroyer that was still in the design stage was shelved in order to devote all resources on the major changes in the 2 Cruisers.


The New SLDF Naval Treaty proved to be very painful for the FC as not a single design matched the new standards.  Construction was halted on all warships while designers were called into address the issue of making the FC Navy compliant with the new standards the Star League had put forth.
Plans for the Durendal were dusted off & significant changes made to create a fully new design crafted from scratch to meet treaty standards.  The Destroyer lost nearly a 1/3 of its proposed original mass which was comparable to the early Davion I & II model destroyers that the Fed Suns used 3 centuries earlier.  This new vessel would be squarely in the "Escort Destroyer" category.  Meanwhile an additional Combat Support Jumpship was also created to allow for LFB mobile fleets of dropships to accompany every Warship.

   New plans for the Fox, Avalon, & Mjolnir class vessels were drawn up.  Requirements were that the vessels would feature the same basic structure of the originals but would have a different outer shell of armor & weaponry as well as renovated cargo & crew sections.  Special emphasis was placed on creating vessels that were proper "ships of the line" able to conduct long ranged bracket fire & massed orbital fire support missions in a manner similar to the original tactics of the SLDF Navy as well as serving as command ships for Army groups & Naval flotillas.  Logistics for weaponry were streamlined to focus weaponry into a smaller # of weapon bays.  Weapons bay layouts were designed to be similar on all warships.  The Avalon underwent a 2nd series of design changes to create a Block-III variant Cruiser-Carrier to fit into treaty regulations & counter the carriers of enemy fleets.

   Using these new plans the FC Navy launched the FCNRCP  (Federated Commonwealth Naval Refit Compliance Program) which required all Block-I vessels to be refitted over a 15 year timeline to Block II standards.  Refitting was to be done at Alarion, New Syrtis, & Galax at a limited # of warship docks while new construction of newly built Block-II vessels was to start up at all other docks & shipyards. 

   Today the FC Navy boasts a full Treaty compliment of 60 Warships totaling 30 million tons, the maximum # & weight allowed by Treaty Limits.
Over half of the FC Navy is made up of the new Fox corvettes, & one quarter of those are assigned directly to Army Combat Organizations to support any offensive operation that group is assigned.  The remainder of the corvettes are organized into boarder fleet flotillas.
These boarder flotillas usually consist of a single Fox-II corvette & a pair of Chariot class Jumpships.  Attached to these ships are 6 or more Dropships per fleet & up to a several wings of Aerofighters.  While there is no fixed standard of dropships assigned to each flotilla most can call on a mix of Carrier, Assault, Marine, & Cargo ships.  A typical fleet usually encompasses a Vengeance, Overlord-A3, Mule, Avenger, Claymore, & Aurora among the ships assigned to it.  Some have a military Tug to move damaged/captured dropships.  These groups answer to March command & usually patrol along boarder regions or between major military or factory worlds.

Standard FC Naval doctrine has its remaining capital warships also being assigned Chariot jumpships to support a full dropship flotilla, but also has all major capital ships operating in pairs to support larger operations.  Each Avalon cruiser is paired up with a Durendal escort & with their quartet of Chariots can provide enough naval support for a full system invasion force.  These groups are typically stationed at major factory worlds but are able to move out in support of the army whenever needed.  Finally 6 pairs of the most powerful ships in the fleet call the original 6 March Capitals as their home ports ensuring that no invasion force will ever claim aerospace superiority over a regional command world.





FCN Deployment:  Mjolnir-II & Avalon-III
New Avalon:  Surtr + Ian Davion
New Syrtis:  Ymir + Marie Davion
Robinson:  Jörmungandr + Peter Davion
Skye:  Fylgia + Margaret Aten
Tamar:  Fenrir + Alistair Marsden
Tharkad:  Yggdrasil + Arthur Luvon



FCN Deployment:  Avalon-II & Durendal
Alarion:  Melissa Davion + Honor's Pact
Coventry:  Simon Davion + Compassion's Bond
Dieron:  Lucien Davion + Oath of Honesty
Donegal:  Nondi Steiner + Vow of Courage
Kathil:  Andrew Davion + Excellence in Service
New Earth:  Alexander Davion + Alliance of Respect
Sarna:  Hanse Davion + Brotherhood of Loyalty
Quentin:  Robert Davion + Tenacious Union






Code: [Select]
Fox-II
Mass: 240,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 240,000
Battle Value: 44,071
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 12,237,937,360 C-bills
Fuel: 5,920 tons (29,600)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 7
Heat Sinks: 838 (1676)
Structural Integrity: 100
Armor
     Nose: 85
     Fore Sides: 81/81
     Aft Sides: 81/81
     Aft: 81
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Cargo (12000.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 3: Small Craft (6) 2 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (10317.0 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 1 (112 m)
Escape Pods: 10
Life Boats: 20
Crew: 23 officers, 72 enlisted/non-rated, 40 gunners, 66 bay personnel, 28 marines
Ammunition: 18 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (900 tons), 2,208 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (184 tons), 18 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (540 tons), 24 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (960 tons), 200 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (80 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 430 tons of ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (113 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6624 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (284 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20), NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots) 120 40(400) 40(400) 40(400) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser, 6 ER Medium Laser 114 9(86) 9(86) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6624 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (544 Heat)
3 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (12 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (9 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (9 shots) 60 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) AR10
5 Naval Laser 45 350 23(225) 23(225) 23(225) 23(225) Capital Laser
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (113 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6624 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser


Code: [Select]
Chariot Jumpship
Mass: 300,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 300,000
Battle Value: 3,848
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 1,835,445,250 C-bills
Fuel: 300 tons (750)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Heat Sinks: 129
Structural Integrity: 1
Armor
     Nose: 16
     Fore Sides: 17/17
     Aft Sides: 17/17
     Aft: 15
Cargo
Bay 1: Small Craft (4) 2 Doors
Bay 2: Cargo (747.0 tons) 2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 3
Grav Decks: 1 (45 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 6
Crew: 5 officers, 17 enlisted/non-rated, 8 gunners, 20 bay personnel, 4 BA marines
Ammunition: 720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (60 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 165 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
ARS/ALS (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
Aft (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser


Code: [Select]
Durendal class Destroyer/Escort
Mass: 430,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 430,000
Battle Value: 61,433
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 13,209,365,400 C-bills
Fuel: 4,300 tons (10,750)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 10
Heat Sinks: 1,999
Structural Integrity: 80
Armor
     Nose: 82
     Fore Sides: 101/101
     Aft Sides: 101/101
     Aft: 72
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Small Craft (10) 4 Doors
Bay 3: Cargo (21500.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 4: Cargo (21502.5 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (95 m, 95 m)
Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 20
Crew: 30 officers, 105 enlisted/non-rated, 45 gunners, 86 bay personnel, 84 marines, 16 BA marines
Ammunition: 18 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (900 tons), 2,160 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons), 18 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (540 tons), 24 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (960 tons), 300 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (120 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 637.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (198 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval Laser 55 85 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) Capital Laser
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (294 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20), NAC/20 Ammo (150 shots) 180 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) Capital AC
2 ER Large Laser, 8 ER Medium Laser 64 6(56) 6(56) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (619 Heat)
3 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (12 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (9 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (9 shots) 60 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) AR10
5 Naval Laser 55 425 28(275) 28(275) 28(275) 28(275) Capital Laser
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (198 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval Laser 55 85 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) Capital Laser
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser


Code: [Select]
Avalon-II Cruiser
Mass: 770,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 770,000
Battle Value: 100,702
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 20,023,582,000 C-bills
Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 1652 (3304)
Structural Integrity: 120
Armor
     Nose: 345
     Fore Sides: 310/310
     Aft Sides: 302/302
     Aft: 291
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Small Craft (18) 2 Doors
Bay 3: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (30800.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 5: Cargo (22301.0 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (145 m, 210 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew: 50 officers, 150 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 162 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 112 marines, 64 BA marines
Ammunition: 30 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (1,500 tons), 2,160 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (180 tons), 30 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (900 tons), 40 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (1,600 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons), 720 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (120 tons), 200 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (160 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 1,788 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (370 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30), NAC/30 Ammo (100 shots) 200 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (1,081 Heat)
5 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (20 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (15 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (15 shots) 100 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) AR10
7 Naval PPC (Medium) 945 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) Capital PPC
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
Aft (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser


Code: [Select]
Avalon-III Carrier
Mass: 770,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 770,000
Battle Value: 100,702
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 20,028,502,000 C-bills
Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 1652 (3304)
Structural Integrity: 120
Armor
     Nose: 345
     Fore Sides: 310/310
     Aft Sides: 302/302
     Aft: 291
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (54) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Fighter (54) 6 Doors
Bay 3: Small Craft (36) 2 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (23100.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 5: Cargo (15215.0 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (145 m, 210 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew: 50 officers, 150 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 396 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 64 BA marines
Ammunition: 30 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (1,500 tons), 2,160 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (180 tons), 30 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (900 tons), 40 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (1,600 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons), 720 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (120 tons), 200 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (160 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 1,788 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (370 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30), NAC/30 Ammo (100 shots) 200 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (1,081 Heat)
5 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (20 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (15 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (15 shots) 100 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) AR10
7 Naval PPC (Medium) 945 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) Capital PPC
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
Aft (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser


Code: [Select]
Mjolnir-II Battleship
Mass: 1,350,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 1,350,000
Battle Value: 203,978
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-X
Cost: 28,397,594,408 C-bills
Fuel: 2,376 tons (5,940)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 6
KF Drive Integrity: 27
Heat Sinks: 2849 (5698)
Structural Integrity: 140
Armor
     Nose: 527
     Fore Sides: 504/504
     Aft Sides: 501/501
     Aft: 501
Cargo
Bay 1: Cargo (13500.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 2: Cargo (20830.5 tons) 1 Door
Bay 3: Fighter (18) 4 Doors
Bay 4: Fighter (18) 4 Doors
Bay 5: Fighter (18) 4 Doors
Bay 6: Small Craft (18) 2 Doors
Bay 7: Small Craft (18) 2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 1 (135 m)
Escape Pods: 75
Life Boats: 60
Crew: 65 officers, 250 enlisted/non-rated, 75 gunners, 288 bay personnel, 336 marines, 64 BA marines
Ammunition: 400 rounds of Gauss Rifle [IS] ammunition (50 tons), 400 rounds of NAC/10 ammunition (80 tons), 60 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (3,000 tons), 4,104 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (342 tons), 200 rounds of Medium N-Gauss ammunition (80 tons), 60 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (1,800 tons), 80 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (3,200 tons), 400 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (400 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons), 720 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (120 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 3,692.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (338 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Heavy) 225 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (1,514 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy) 900 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35), NAC/35 Ammo (100 shots) 240 70(700) 70(700) 0(0) 0(0) Capital AC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35), NAC/35 Ammo (100 shots) 240 70(700) 70(700) 0(0) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (329 Heat)
18 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (18144 shots) 18 5(54) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
12 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (2160 shots) 72 14(144) 14(144) 14(144) 0(0) LRM
5 Gauss Rifle, Gauss Rifle Ammo [IS] (1600 shots) 5 8(75) 8(75) 8(75) 0(0) AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
15 Large Pulse Laser 150 14(135) 14(135) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (1,200 Heat)
5 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (30 shots), AR10 White Shark Ammo (40 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (30 shots) 100 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) AR10
4 Naval PPC (Heavy) 900 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) Capital PPC
2 Naval Gauss (Medium), Medium N-Gauss Ammo (100 shots) 30 50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500) Capital Gauss
4 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10), NAC/10 Ammo (200 shots) 120 40(400) 40(400) 40(400) 0(0) Capital AC
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (338 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Heavy) 225 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser




So I've noticed that MML seems to have issues w/ Ammo weights v/s shot counts.

For example, when I did the mass, its 5 tons per Gauss Rifle in ammo.  40 Shots.   But the TRO print out we see is showing 960 shots as if each of the shots I assigned is a full ton, but, the tonnage matches the small 5 ton allotment I gave.




EDIT:  Fixed some issues w/ Weapons & Crew
« Last Edit: 02 February 2020, 01:51:08 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Lagrange

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #55 on: 27 January 2020, 23:02:20 »
I added Hellraiser's Fedcom entry and also looked at the price tags on the warships (not including the price tags of other things).  Each major navy is just shy of 1 Trillion, except the LCN which is notably more.  (I'm not sure I have the warship count right for the SLDF.)  The minor powers are much cheaper in the 200-400 B range, although obviously still quite expensive. 

I also did a fairly significant refit of the TCN entry, mostly with an aim towards minimizing cost (by shifting docking collars and mobile HPGs to a supporting jumpship). I also managed to pack a few more capital weapons on each ship and shifted the standard weapons more towards an anti-fighter layout.

marcussmythe

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #56 on: 28 January 2020, 08:46:34 »
Each major navy is just shy of 1 Trillion, except the LCN which is notably more.

Its the heavy allocation of HPGs + NC3.  Rationale was the peacetime, treaty-compliant navy is mass limited (hull-count as well, but thats not the pressing limitation) but not C-Bill limited (though I dont know what national budgets are, these navy limits seem quite small compare to historic hull counts).

Based on that, it seemed to make sense to cram as much capability as possible into the peacetime hulls, and then use them as flagships/support capabilities for cheap and cheerful wartime hulls that lack the expensive (collar, HPG,NC3) systems.

Sharpnel

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Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #57 on: 28 January 2020, 16:35:22 »
Here's the Outworlds Alliance, built with technological assistance from the Terran Hegemony as three of the four new classes of ships are based on old Terran designs.

Cerberus-class Carrier [2] (OAS Cerberus and OAS Santiago)
Code: [Select]
Cerberus-class Carrier Warship
Mass: 960,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 960,000
Battle Value: 90,081
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 21,133,445,600 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 20
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 210
    Fore Sides: 180/180
    Aft Sides: 180/180
    Aft: 210

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 7:  Cargo (Liquid) (75000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 8:  Cargo (91716.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,728 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (144 tons),
    300 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (120 tons),
    512 rounds of LRM 15 ammunition (64 tons),
    80 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (2,400 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (125 m, 125 m, 125 m)
Escape Pods: 45
Life Boats: 45
Crew:  66 officers, 171 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 280 bay personnel, 12 passengers, 128 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
1,365 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (421 Heat)
3 Naval PPC (Light)                         315  21(210) 21(210) 21(210)   0(0)   Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
FRS/FLS (266 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (75 shots)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
4 LRM 15                                    20   4(36)   4(36)   4(36)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 15 Ammo (1024 shots)
RBS/LBS (611 Heat)
5 Naval PPC (Light)                         525  35(350) 35(350) 35(350)   0(0)   Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
ARS/ALS (266 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (75 shots)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
4 LRM 15                                    20   4(36)   4(36)   4(36)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 15 Ammo (1024 shots)
Aft (421 Heat)
3 Naval PPC (Light)                         315  21(210) 21(210) 21(210)   0(0)   Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)


Elias Pitcairn-class Heavy Cruiser [2] (OAS Elias Pitcairn and OAS Welkens Nordd)
Code: [Select]
Elias Pitcairn-class Heavy Cruiser Warship
Mass: 960,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 960,000
Battle Value: 191,478
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 21,690,150,800 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 20
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 210
    Fore Sides: 180/180
    Aft Sides: 180/180
    Aft: 210

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (14)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (12)            3 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (Liquid) (15000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (85428.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,728 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (144 tons),
    100 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (5,000 tons),
    600 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (600 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (125 m, 125 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 45
Life Boats: 45
Crew:  116 officers, 309 enlisted/non-rated, 80 gunners, 92 bay personnel, 64 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
1,365 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (636 Heat)
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                        270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
FRS/FLS (916 Heat)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
6 Naval PPC (Medium)                        810  54(540) 54(540) 54(540) 54(540)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
RBS/LBS (1,026 Heat)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
ARS/ALS (916 Heat)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
6 Naval PPC (Medium)                        810  54(540) 54(540) 54(540) 54(540)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
Aft (866 Heat)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)


Alpheratz-class Destroyer [4] (OAS Alpheratz, OAS Quatre Belle, OAS Lushann. OAS Ramora)
Code: [Select]
Alpheratz-class Destroyer Warship
Mass: 510,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 510,000
Battle Value: 93,607
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 19,055,028,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 2,000
Structural Integrity: 60

Armor
    Nose: 100
    Fore Sides: 80/80
    Aft Sides: 75/75
    Aft: 90

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (Liquid) (10000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (39123.5 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,536 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (128 tons),
    80 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (4,000 tons),
    200 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (200 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  60 officers, 140 enlisted/non-rated, 80 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 64 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
580 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (270 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
FRS/FLS (100 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
RBS/LBS (540 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (50 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (50 shots)
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
ARS/ALS (315 Heat)
3 Naval Laser 55                            255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
Aft (440 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)


Pulsar-class Corvette [12] (OAS Pulsar, OAS Quasar, OAS Event Horizon, OAS Supernova, OAS Corona, OAS Comet, OAS Meteor, OAS Sol,
OAS Sundiver, OAS Hurricane, OAS Tornado, OAS Cyclone)
Code: [Select]
Pulsar-class Corvette Warship
Mass: 320,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 320,000
Battle Value: 61,556
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 12,739,038,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 8
Heat Sinks: 2,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 60
    Fore Sides: 50/50
    Aft Sides: 50/50
    Aft: 60

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (Liquid) (10000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (10004.5 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    576 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (48 tons),
    160 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (64 tons),
    100 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (3,000 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (75 m, 75 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  54 officers, 186 enlisted/non-rated, 150 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 64 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
340 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (178 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)     20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
FRS/FLS (162 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)     20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (218 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (162 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)     20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
Aft (246 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 35                           208  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, VND-1R Vindicator 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka

"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
It's an Omni, so I can build it into whatever I please - JHB
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13316
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #58 on: 28 January 2020, 17:45:46 »
Its the heavy allocation of HPGs + NC3.  Rationale was the peacetime, treaty-compliant navy is mass limited (hull-count as well, but thats not the pressing limitation) but not C-Bill limited (though I dont know what national budgets are, these navy limits seem quite small compare to historic hull counts).

Based on that, it seemed to make sense to cram as much capability as possible into the peacetime hulls, and then use them as flagships/support capabilities for cheap and cheerful wartime hulls that lack the expensive (collar, HPG,NC3) systems.
I like the cut of your jib...  8)

marcussmythe

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 788
Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
« Reply #59 on: 28 January 2020, 18:33:30 »
Thanks!

One of the things I like about the Warship design space is that costs matter, and things largely cost something like what they are worth, so the cost decisions are meaningful.

Others I dislike - rounding up fractional thrust and binding max SI to Thrust really constrains what you can do, because 3/5 is just sooo good compared to everything else - but thats why we changed it in that warship race (one of the better changes.  Others worked less well)