Teaser for a proposed...thing.

[monbvol]

I once had someone call me out for the "impossibility" of having a planet with several billion inhabitants field an actual Division, as in three Brigades, as a standing military, along with another two Brigades of militia (mostly second-line and conventional forces). So I pulled out the maths and showed them how, proportionally, the planet actually had a smaller military than the 21st century United States.

If you're willing to standardise everything you can, even a minor world should be able to support a massive amount of infantry and armour. And while, unit for unit, they may not be able to stand up to BattleMechs, quantity has a quality of its own, especially well motivated...

Don't get me wrong.  FASAnomics doesn't make a lot of sense and need kicked in the teeth.  A lot.  I think it'd make the setting far more interesting.

And I think that is all I should say without derailing the thread further.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I know stats for the Patton were posted in an earlier thread, I just don't remember which one. It was probably one of the v2 or v3 threads.

IIRC the primary change was swapping the auto cannon for a PPC.  Obviously the hull would need considerable modification for hauling troops IRL.

Here it is, Link.

[worktroll]

Thanks! Interesting, & makes sense. I'd have tried to reach for the extra tonnage to get 4 tons - I suppose it'd be simple to drop the small laser, to fit squads of Centurions ;)

BTW, do the Centurions form up in squads of 4, or some other number?

[Paladin1]

And on a related note, do Cylons fight as integrated units with the humans or as segregated units attached at higher levels for special duty?  What’s their doctrine?

[Trace Coburn]

Just remember, last run-through? She married him.

  Uh, that was Morgan Icaza, not Nathan Roshak.  I’m moderately sure Roshak didn’t survive the Falcon attempt to take Kowloon in that timeline — and I can’t say I like his chances in this one....

And what camo scheme does the Militia use? I'm thinking a Kowloon battalion would make a nice entry in my AU category ...

  Past materials like For the Liberty of Others have referred to ‘sand and spinach’ camo, so my own mental pictures defaults to something like the USAF South-East Asia scheme (https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-4/images/f-4_profile02t.png).  Ground vehicles and ’Mechs likely forego the haze-grey underside.

[gladius]

IIRC the primary change was swapping the auto cannon for a PPC.  Obviously the hull would need considerable modification for hauling troops IRL.

Here it is, Link.

As I recall, the turret and crew compartment were shifted to the sides to allow for forward and rear infantry ramps for rapid deployment of the embarked troops: apparently it looked kooky, but could move large numbers of troops to keep up with the main battle tanks.

[Cannonshop]

Thanks! Interesting, & makes sense. I'd have tried to reach for the extra tonnage to get 4 tons - I suppose it'd be simple to drop the small laser, to fit squads of Centurions ;)

BTW, do the Centurions form up in squads of 4, or some other number?

yes, they deploy in fireteams of four with one fireteam per 11 man infantry squad.
3 squads make 1 platoon.
3 platoons make 1 company.

mixes adjust by mission type, naturally, but generally 4 centurions are backing up every 7 infantrymen.  with IFV deployment this ends up with 2 IFV's per squad.  Air assault is with de-jumped raptor variants serving as the 'slicks' for helo borne infantry (Airmobile units) and the percentage of light infantry is higher in those units, with a dedicated "Cylon Squad" of 12 centurions as the heavy weapons section for those platoons.

no, you probably can't model these as Battletech "Mechanized platoons" as the organic vehicles are all a lot heavier and capable of serving as combat units of their own.

[gladius]

yes, they deploy in fireteams of four with one fireteam per 11 man infantry squad.
3 squads make 1 platoon.
3 platoons make 1 company.

mixes adjust by mission type, naturally, but generally 4 centurions are backing up every 7 infantrymen.  with IFV deployment this ends up with 2 IFV's per squad.  Air assault is with de-jumped raptor variants serving as the 'slicks' for helo borne infantry (Airmobile units) and the percentage of light infantry is higher in those units, with a dedicated "Cylon Squad" of 12 centurions as the heavy weapons section for those platoons.

no, you probably can't model these as Battletech "Mechanized platoons" as the organic vehicles are all a lot heavier and capable of serving as combat units of their own.

Yeah, when those infantry rules with their ‘mechanised infantry vehicles’ came out I mostly ignored them in favour of foot platoons mounted in conventional APCs.

[glitterboy2098]

as a quick-and-dirty way of representing Centurions:

Code: [Select]

Cylon Centurion Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level
Era
Experimental
3052+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-E-D
BV: 34
Cost: 1,120,640 C-bills
Source: custom
Movement: 2/2
armor: BA Standard (Prototype)

Internal Armor
Trooper 1 1 2
Trooper 2 1 2
Trooper 3 1 2
Trooper 4 1 2

Weapons Loc Heat
Submachine Gun Squad 0
Auto-Rifle (Modern, Generic) Squad 0

Equipment Loc
BA Manipulators [Battle Claw] (Left arm) Squad
BA Manipulators [Battle Claw] (Right arm) Squad
Heat Sensor (Body) Squad
i'd attach the file but it for some reason megameklab won't validate it but it won't let me place the items it says need placed for validation. sigh.

[croaker]

Isn't "motorized infantry" basically "unarmored trucks and jeeps"?

[gladius]

Isn't "motorized infantry" basically "unarmored trucks and jeeps"?

Yeah, but ‘mechanised’ is supposed to represent infantry in IFVs like Bradley’s and BMPs, which are basically mini tanks with troop compartments.

[glitterboy2098]

i'd say more like lightweight APC's in the vein of M113's, LAV's, and the like, as well as things like MRAP's and similar "infantry mobility vehicles" to use a modern term.
armored enough to protect from infantry weaponry but not enough to hold up against AFV weapons or armed enough to fight on its own.

the quikcell 10 ton APC's would be comparable to the heavily armored transports like the Israeli Namer, while the platoon carrying heavy APC's and infantry carrying MBT's don't have a real world analog yet.

[Daryk]

The other problem with that motorized characterization is that trucks and jeeps move faster than 3 hexes...

[Hammer]

as a quick-and-dirty way of representing Centurions:

Code: [Select]

Cylon Centurion Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level
Era
Experimental
3052+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-E-D
BV: 34
Cost: 1,120,640 C-bills
Source: custom
Movement: 2/2
armor: BA Standard (Prototype)

Internal Armor
Trooper 1 1 2
Trooper 2 1 2
Trooper 3 1 2
Trooper 4 1 2

Weapons Loc Heat
Submachine Gun Squad 0
Auto-Rifle (Modern, Generic) Squad 0

Equipment Loc
BA Manipulators [Battle Claw] (Left arm) Squad
BA Manipulators [Battle Claw] (Right arm) Squad
Heat Sensor (Body) Squad
i'd attach the file but it for some reason megameklab won't validate it but it won't let me place the items it says need placed for validation. sigh.

You don't have AP Mounts for the infantry weapons.  If you add them they'll validate correctly.

[Cannonshop]

Clan Space...

No plan survives first contact with reality.  In this case, 'first contact with reality' being the continued naval attacks.  There was no pattern to them.  There were definite identifiers between the forces attacking-the Greek lettered ship's name had been translated as Galactica and the Galactica liked to hit Smoke Jaguar forces and holdings, sometimes they hit Novacat units, but their primary focus was on Smoke Jaguar flagged vessels, stations and military positions.  They would hit, do damage, and vanish.

For the most part, after the initial nuclear attacks, further nuclear attacks weren't happening.

at least, not all that often.  Instead, there was a not-pattern pattern of convoy assaults and ambushes of any Warship alone for a sustained length of time.

This, in turn, caused delay after delay.

[Cannonshop]

Testbed One, further than any human had ever gone...

There were records here.  The people that built this place, could have been mistaken for classic Elves in human mythology-they were humanoid, tall, thin, and incredibly ancient when they died out.

and Nicole was fairly certain they did just that-reached extinction, died out.  but they left their debris behind, and in that debris, if you could translate it, was technical information on how they crossed the Galaxy in a matter of days.

"We don't have that kind of power but..."  she let the computers run the complex translation algorithm for weeks.  The crew had gone back to the inhabitable world they'd found a few times to restock on food and other consumables.  It would be needed for the children.

"I think I can get us home."  she said.  "They've been to Earth."

"WHAT??"

"accounting for stellar drift, their records here, that's earth right around the middle-end of the last ice age." she said, bringing up holographic images.  "They took biological samples." she sighed, "We know where the people of Kobol came from, and who the gods...were.  At least, who they were, seventy thousand years ago.  Mac, I'm pretty sure the solution to our navigation error is do-able but it's going to suck."

"What has to happen?" McEvedy asked.

"You're going to have to wire someone into the jump computer, and that someone is me." Nicole told him.  "I can't find a procedure to get me out of it, but it'll let me get us-get you, home.  We'll have to fabricate these components."  a series of files opened in the holographic space, "And install them on the Testbed One.  That means you're going to have to be in command, I won't be fit any longer."

"There's gotta be another way!"

she shook her head, "I'm going to forward my results to New Circe, along with as many files as we can scavenge from this station but in the end, there's only one answer...and I'm going to have to apologize to Seether and hope she can forgive me for this."

[Cannonshop]

Spider Moon...

"We need to hit their shipping." Elizabeth said.

"Their shipping? you mean, commerce raiding?"  Commodore Li asked.

"I mean commerce raids." Liz said, "We've got eighteen Sampan 1M cutters in service, the Sampan 2A series is in the yards being worked on, that represents a fairly significant military asset that the Federated Commonwealth can use, and can demand we give them, if it's not being used already."

Li frowned thoughtfully, then said, "you didn't come up with this yourself."

"no." Elizabeth said, limping to a status display.  "I didn't, and I'm looking for good reasons to argue against it, but with our drives, our technology thanks to the Cylons and the lab boys?" she shook her head, "I can't win the argument.  Can you work up a...how did Davion put it in his message...a 'submarine campaign' to hurt the Clanners?  can we starve them of munitions, replacements, equipment?"

Li looked thoughtfully at the bulkhead.  "I think we can." she said.  "The nav-data from the Belleau Wood's computers.  It's bound to be out of date, but i think we can detach a patrol or two to conduct a deep recon into the deep periphery, to engage enemy shipping..."

"Keep it fairly close to home." Liz said, "but give me a workup I can give the Archon and her husband next status report, it should be enough, if we're coordinating with his over-all strategy, to keep the AFFC from taking our ships away from us."

[nerd]

Commerce raiding in support of a broad based strategy works.

I hope Liz and the AFFC pull it off.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Commerce raiding in support of a broad based strategy works.

I hope Liz and the AFFC pull it off.

And makes Liz look like part of the Galactica raiding plan. :popcorn:

[croaker]

So, wait, Nicole is turning herself into a Hybrid? That's... more than a little nuts.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

So, wait, Nicole is turning herself into a Hybrid? That's... more than a little nuts.

Quasi-Hybrid.  And with her shield or on it.  She's been looking for a way to die, but her upbringing won't let outright suicide work.  But martyrdom?  That works, if someone has to be sacrificed to get her ship and crew home.

Oh, and the "space elves", anyone thinking the Humankind Empire of Abh?

[Daryk]

"The Archon and her husband" says everything we need to know about how Liz views her rulers...  ^-^

[glitterboy2098]

You don't have AP Mounts for the infantry weapons.  If you add them they'll validate correctly.

says i have to place crits for the prototype armor.. but no crits for prototype armor appear in the list to be placed.

[JA Baker]

"The Archon and her husband" says everything we need to know about how Liz views her rulers...  ^-^

She's a Lyran, through and through

[Hammer]

says i have to place crits for the prototype armor.. but no crits for prototype armor appear in the list to be placed.

Thanks got a bug report in for it.

[Cannonshop]

KCGS Allison Jennings, 40 LY coreward from Kowloon...

"We're not going to need to find them, the Clanners are on the way."

On telescope, were symbols.  the Jade Falcon, the Star Adder, The Wolf.  a white bird inevitably being the Snow raven.  On digital recognition, a listing of names.  A monkey's face-must be fire Mandrill, a McKenna class sporting the image of a Scorpion.

Commander Giao Pham watched the telescope image.  a selection of cruisers, and escorted by Frigates, over a dozen different forces.

"We're being painted, Commander.  They can see us."

"Send imagery to the Patrol." she said, as she began calculating an escape vector.  "I guess we got their attention."

"Missiles incoming."

"Jump on my mark.  deploy chaff."

There's only one target worth that much force this far out, even Melissia wouldn't draw a combined clan force.  "Range five kilometers."

she waited for the missiles to be just outside the flash limit, and hit the initiator.

Flash!

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Saving what happens to something inside a Koballan jumpdrive's safety limit when it spins up the FTL for a nasty surprise?

[gladius]

That sort of taskforce? Victor is almost certain to be on his way ASAP with five or six RCTs, half the Dragoons and a regiment of Kell Hounds. Liz just needs to hold on until he gets there.

[mikecj]

Break out the popcorn!

[monbvol]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hanse isn't thinking an alternate strategy that takes advantage of the Clans committing so much force to one target that they have to be weak in other areas, at least with how many galaxies and clusters have been wiped out now, that liberating large swaths of territory might now be possible and Melissa might not overly object as a subtle reminder of who the superior of the relationship is between her and Elizabeth.

So if Kowloon does get any help it might come with a price tag.