Author Topic: Teaser for a proposed...thing.  (Read 141242 times)

JA Baker

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1140 on: 23 January 2020, 18:57:03 »
"...a repayment for a kindness shown once in Arcadia"
I'm sure that the people still living on Alshain aren't too bothered about that particular debt of honour being repaid.
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


Korzon77

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1141 on: 23 January 2020, 19:13:25 »
One issue that needs to be addressed is prolifrating colonial jump drive. Because the rest of the IS needs it, ASAP.  As long as they don't have it, the imperial cylons can just jump into a system, let the IS forces jump in--and then leave, confident that they now have a weeks window to slaughter people in every other system.

Granted, this is one of the Wolverine's big advantages, but I think at this point, everyone should agree that "who wins our squabbles" is a fourth quarter problem, for which you must survive the current quarter.

Derain Von Harken

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1142 on: 23 January 2020, 19:14:26 »
There are now two things in the universe that can make the WOB act rationally. The Evil of John Cavil and the stupidity of Thomas Hogarth.
Yet now the wolverines and Ghost bear shall be friends. I can hear the immigrant song playing whenever I read that battle and I suspect will hear it every time those two clans are fighting alongside each other. In fact.
Cavil: Damnit why do the hybrids start playing this frakking song on the speakers every time they
show up!!

Plus the Cylons are beginning the third Cylon War! Although the fact raiders are getting dumber is the signs of Cavils evil making him less effective. How long before the Cavils go full evil ham and start getting called imperious leaders by the other brain jacked cylons. With the raised chair and red cloak. And how long before this will bite Cavil in the behind.

Meanwhile Lizzie is arming with enough nukes to be declared an honorary Taurian. In fact since the Taurian concordat is one of the periphery targets on Cavils list things will get very unpleasant. Because the Taurian response to you nuking them is to reply with more and bigger nukes.

Daryk

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1143 on: 23 January 2020, 19:21:04 »
I definitely want to see a Taurian response to a cylon attack...  8)

JA Baker

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1144 on: 23 January 2020, 19:59:22 »
I definitely want to see a Taurian response to a cylon attack...  8)
The Taurian Concordat: where they play the 1812 Overture with nukes
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


Paladin1

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1145 on: 23 January 2020, 20:15:45 »
Much has been made of the Cylon’s superstitious nature, but has it ever been used as a psychological weapon against them?

I mean, it seems like something that would be used to full effect once it’s known.

Derain Von Harken

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1146 on: 23 January 2020, 20:17:04 »
One issue that needs to be addressed is prolifrating colonial jump drive. Because the rest of the IS needs it, ASAP.  As long as they don't have it, the imperial cylons can just jump into a system, let the IS forces jump in--and then leave, confident that they now have a weeks window to slaughter people in every other system.

Granted, this is one of the Wolverine's big advantages, but I think at this point, everyone should agree that "who wins our squabbles" is a fourth quarter problem, for which you must survive the current quarter.
Well proliferating the drive also requires proliferating the tylium mining, refining and support infrastructure. Tylium is tricky stuff. I can see whole new industries and corporations setting up to support it in the Inner Sphere. In fact the logistical limitations of Tylium drives mean that they will not completely supplant the KF drives in military or civilian use. Raiding the Cylon fueling operations has been a tactic used by the Wolverines way back in hunted tribes. It may also be what slows down the Cylon Imperiums offensive later on.
It can become a valid tactical counter as well.
At first it is damn the cylons are jumping all over the place.
Then it becomes we need to spook the cylons into jumping more so they burn their fuel reserves.

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1147 on: 23 January 2020, 20:26:50 »
Attn. to Orders

To: Commodore Alicia Li, Kowloon Coast Guard.
From: Duchess Elizabeth Ngo.

RE: Executive Order 213

Executive Order 213, Context War Plan Silver.  Will be home in six months. Release is granted, happy hunting. That is all.



New Avalon HPG station, 10 March, 3057.

"that's it?" Victor asked.

Elizabeth nodded.  "I trust my people." she said, "I trust them to formulate military strategy, and i trust them to execute it.  Detailed orders are for suckers, especially on an open channel."

"What..did you just do?"

"I turned the Coast Guard loose and ordered a raising of the ban and arriere'-ban, basically we are now on wartime footing for production, recruitment and preparation for deployment under article 2, section 13 of the Kowloonese Constitution as re-ratified and recognized under your mother's reign."

"You mean, you weren't before?"

"Nope." Liz said, "we really weren't.  you ready for your part?"

"my part?"

"As Archon-Prince, you're the only legal authority that can suspend the Militia Act, i'm about to raise more than twelve million soldiers-when you take into account support services, on an expeditionary footing.  It would be nice if I wasn't going to be trying to do my service to the realm from inside a prison cell.  for the Margrave side of things, I still need to forward orders to the planets you put me in charge of, but those places? I haven't gotten the infrastructure in place yet to produce expeditionary quality units."

"Twelve Million??"

"At two percent of local gross domestic product that's a sustainable number." Liz pointed out, "The easy parts are about finished-we've got production lines for three types of 'mech and two types of Battle Armor, tank factories, and factories for three classes of fighter, the bottlenecks are transport-which is about solved with the Boojum, Winter, and Inarcs shipyards plus Alarion's overages, small arms are a non-problem and so are uniforms-though there will be a small boost to the textile and leather industries...what?"

"At...two percent?"

"Low overhead." Liz said, "I've been telling you what I'm doing!"

Victor paused, then, found his words.  "I thought you were joking." he said numbly.

"Well, not joking.  Now I have preparations to make, your Majesty, while I trust my people, I'm kind of fond of being home, someone has to answer the phones and keep things on track, and there are a dozen planetary systems that still need sorting out if you're going to win this war.  My I leave to do my job now?"
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1148 on: 23 January 2020, 20:33:39 »
I've asked that last question before (if not in those words exactly)... fortunately, the answer was "yes"...  ^-^

Got me out of the rest of that meeting, and the memo my boss needed drafted and ready for him when he needed it...

glitterboy2098

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1149 on: 23 January 2020, 20:45:04 »
and now we get to the point where Cannonshop mugs FASAnomics in a dark alley.

Daryk

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1150 on: 23 January 2020, 20:49:02 »
I always figured he'd NUKE FASAnomics in a dark alley...  ^-^

Derain Von Harken

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1151 on: 23 January 2020, 21:00:18 »
and now we get to the point where Cannonshop mugs FASAnomics in a dark alley.
One thing to remember about FASAnomics in regard to a planets military. The combination of Battlemechs and dropships means that an invading enemy can do to a much larger planet military force what the cylons are doing to the clanners in space. You can have enough tanks and infantry to shoot the hell out of your foe ten times over but if their mech forces keep smashing key targets and then buggering off to another part of the planet before your tanks and infantry can get there well that is a problem. So your own mech forces in dropships are likely key to reinforcing those areas fast since mechs can just jump out of a dropship embarking and disembarking faster than heavy armor.
Until the enemy heavy forces of tanks and infantry land. Which is why mech battles do become significant.
And the inclusion of Tylium drives will make the whole thing worse.

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1152 on: 23 January 2020, 22:20:40 »
[out of story]

Three 'mech lines:

Inner Sphere copy of the Battle Cobra, but unlike the main-timeline Comstar copy, they didn't make it slower.  Instead, they made it slightly larger to accomodate enough tonnage for a decent weapons load while retaining the same speed and profile using endosteel and ferro fibrous armor.  Like the original, the bulk of the weapons podding is in the arms, is primarily PPC based, and uses some of the Wolverine-derived tech given by New Circe to the new Star League.

There are a total of 12 lines going simultaneously for this type, with additional lines for podded armaments and munitions.

Blackhawk-KU: as a subcontractor to the official licensee, Ngo did a lot of the tooling for this copy of a Clanner medium as an Inner Sphere fast-heavy.  While CMW and Defiance both have two lines producing the type, Nashan/Groves of Winter has purchased 12 lines of tooling and those lines were set up quickly.  With the "Executive Order" the lines which were producing spares of every component for the prime contractors, have been turned over to full unit assembly production.

Enfield Medium 'mech: The LBX-version of this design, under contract with Blackstone and Blue Shot on Inarcs, has a total of 24 production lines between four worlds, those being held by a variety of subcontractors begun as part of Elizabeth Ngo's "Economic revitalization and reformation" campaign since 3055.

In rough scaling, the "Biggah Kobra" serves as a fast strike/scout design, intended to range ahead of formations in a variety of roles that Jade Falcon warriors would call 'Sweep" operations.  The Enfields form the bulk of forces, while the Blackhawk-KU fills the heavy and heavy cavalry roles.

There is a distinct lack of true 'heavy' or trooper designs, but that's the limits of what you can get legal permission to do when you're Elizabeth Ngo.

Tank Designs:

an LBX-armed version of the Patton, which replaces the flamer and small laser with a medium pulse laser, and incorporates a cylon-tech derived missile launcher in place of the Coventry patented LRM, in this case, equivalent to an MML-5, this updated tank carries Ferro Fibrous armor of the same type as the locally produced 'mechs, and the LBX autocannon is the same type as used by the Enfield, or in podded applications by the omnimech designs.

In keeping with "Make more of the same thing to save money", the Patton is joined by a Field Artillery variant using the classic 'Thumper' in a turret mount, with slightly reduced armor and the same engine and automotive components as the tank.  (Really, it's just a Rommel with a Thumper in place of the AC/20), an MLRS system or "rocket battery" fitting as many MML-3's as can be physically crammed onto the turret ring (while keeping 4 tons of ammo), an "APC" version armed with a lighter, lower damage PPC configured for supporting either light infantry, or Battle Armor, and a "Cargo Schlepper" version to serve the same role as the J-27, except with armor and CASE, and a series of combat engineering/construction vehicles based on the same automotive components.

There are factories for these scattered throughout the theater as part of Elizabeth's "Economic Revitalization project" (How do we keep people from rioting? JOBS JOBS JOBS.)

Fighter Production:

Variations of the SB-27 might seem odd, given this is the Lyran Commonwealth,but the type's been in operation for over five centuries, there is a huge aftermarket, and they're a good export item.  The 'wartime' variant uses a "Light" PPC and ferro-aluminium armor with XL fusion engine and double heat sinks, along with advanced targeting systems based on reverse-engineered clantech.

the SL-15 Slayer isn't a Lyran design, and some folks were quite put out that Ia Drang Industries got the license from the original manufacturer (thus, making Kowloon the place for LCAF militias still operating the type to get new-stock spare parts).  However, it is an effective design with a long fuel duration and decent weapons load.  This weapons load is increased significantly with the SL-15KR, which replaces the engines with XL powerplants, the heat sinks with double models, the Medium Lasers with extended range medium lasers, and the autocannon 10 installation with an LBX model.  tonnage savings on the design update went into improved avionics and targeting systems, along with ECM arrays.

Ia Drang "Raptor" fully deployable smallcraft: a line for line copy of the Colonial Raptor, this smallcraft employs a Kobolian/Cylon Tyllium jump drive, fusion engine for main power, and an array of configurable roles ranging from simple transport to ECM/Electronic Warfare support and reconaissance.

Battle/Power armor:

With the assistance of the Cylons, and with contracts tooling everyone from GDL enterprises to Coventry Metal Works to NAIS, Kowloonese forces have access to two modern battle-armor types;

1. Kowloon Light Suit: The Kowloon light suit is an up-armored copy of the Gray Death Scout armor
2. Kowloon Medium Suit: this armor is functionally identical to the medium suits being deployed elsewhere in the Inner Sphere in 3057, except that it does not need special fitting, sharing some of the same modularity as the DCMS Kage light armor.

in addition, Kowloon has access to up-armored Centurion type Cylons.  These are enlistees and not equipment.  Their BODIES are equipment, and standard Centurion frames are available to those who wish to leave service.  Up-Armored Centurions are slightly faster than Elementals in terms of ground speed, with similar durability and vibroclaw/hands as standard.  They carry a variety of BA scale weapons depending on role, said weapons being roughly configured in 'rifle' style.  the antipersonnel weapons remain as they are in Standard 2nd Cylon War era configurations.

VRT displays:  VRT displays based on Graystone industries designs from the pre-first-cylon-war era are incorporated into the visors and helmets of all Kowloonese infantry units except Centurions, who don't need the extra gear to have the function.  these interface with both suit-mounted (and vehicle mounted) sensor arrays, static sensor pods, etch to provide real-time battlefield awareness, night/obscured vision and updated targeting information, status monitoring, and 'silent' coordination, and can, with deployable drones, (remote controlled devices roughly the size of a basketball) provide 'look through' and cover/concealment defeating enhancements in cluttered terrain, to give an enhanced situational awareness to troops on the ground, in the air, or in space.

One out of every 12 mechs off the line has a dual cockpit with a command console, usually at the cost of one ton of something else.  one of every 12 'APC' Patton/Rommel tanks is equipped with the full 7 tons of mobile headquarters gear, and is a dedicated command post vehicle for companies and battalions.
'

the 171st Kowloon Volunteers RCT:

Battlemech Battalion:

Coy. A: 13 'Biggah Kobra' 'mechs (12 line mechs of lighter type, 1 command 'mech)
Coy. B: 13 Enfield 'mechs, (12 standard 'mechs, 1 command 'mech)
Coy. C: 13 Blackhawk-KU (12 standard 'mechs, 1 Command variant)
HHC: 2 firing batteries Artillery, 1 Battalion Command vehicle, 6 APC's with 1 16 man platoon of Battle Armor.

Cavalry Squadron:
Troop A: Patton (Kowloon), 12 Tanks, 1 Command/coordination vehicle.
Troop B: Patton  (12/1)
Troop C: Patton  (12/1)
HHC troop: 2 Rommel based armor recovery vehicles, 4 MML Tracks,6 Combat engineering vehicles, 1 platoon engineers

2nd Battalion, Infantry
Coy. D: 1 tank platoon, 3 IFV-mounted infantry platoons, 1 Fire support platoon (16 up-armored Cylons with organic tracked support), 1 command post track.
Coy. E: same as Coy. D
Coy. F: same as Coy. D
Battery G: 4 Thumpers, 4 Ammunition carriers, 2 Warrior H-7 scout VTOLs
HHC: Battalion Command company, 1 tracked MHQ, 1 platoon armored infantry, 1 lance of 'mechs

3rd Battalion, Infantry

Coy. H
Coy. I
Coy. J
Battery K
HHC

Regimental Artillery Battalion/ADA
1 battalion of tracked, mobile, field artillery. (Batteries L-O), 5 Command post Vehicles, 50 ammunition transport vehicles, 12 Scout vehicles.

Regimental Engineering Battalion

3171st Mobile Army Surgical Hospital (Battalion).

For perspective, this is not a small force, and it's not cheap to move it.  it is, however, relatively cheap to keep going, as there is a large commonality of spares between unit types, an optimized per-ton ammunition budget due to the use of single. standardized types of munition, armor, and other spares.  Actuator servos were standardized between the Ominechs, leading to the smaller 'mechs having heavier-than-necessary servos and joint mechanisms to maximize every ton of shipping weight for supplies and support components.

Where the typical Inner Sphere or Great House regiment must account, for example, for between 5 and 25 different calibers of rounds for the standard Class-10 autocannon, the 171st only has to accomodate a total of 3 calibers of cannon ammunition at all, those being Class 2, Class 10 (Slug) and Class 10 (cluster), and only one bore-size for field artillery (the 155 mm standard Thumper, with standard variations including FLAK.)

The widest spread being missile ammunition, with the need to accomodate the following:

LRM: Smoke, Thunder/FASCAM, Standard
SRM: Inferno, Standard, Fragmentation.

The 171st, like all Kowloon Theater units, relies on Coast Guard for their fixed wing aviation units, and has 24 SB-27(K) fighters on-call at all times when on deployment, along with an airmobile/spacemobile Marine Company mounted aboard Raptors.

the 171st went fully operational in May of 3057 under Executive order 213 after spending the preceding 5 years in 'workup and testing' developing and integrating their specifc unit technologies and doctrine.  'mechwarrior personnel were certified under the instruction of the 7th Crucis Lancers and final collective training was ostensibly conducted by AFFC reviewers.

Commander of Record: Colonel Charles Vanh.

Special note: By established Tradition, the 171st Volunteers is a formation commanded by a Colonel.  By special authorization of the Archon Prince, promotion beyond Colonel results in immediate transfer to RCT command elsewhere in the AFFC.  The commander of the 171 is always a Colonel.  Battalion command therefore falls to hauptmann (Promotable) which in surface actions, is called 'major'. Companies are commanded by Leutnants or "captains" and platoons by Ensigns or 'Lieutenants'.

in 3057, the 171st is the first of 4 planned RCT's comprising the Kowloon Theater Militia forces, the others being:

172nd: a heavy formation relying on standard Lyran heavy 'mech designs with a lighter 'lightning' company attached.  This unit is being formed on Inarcs.

173rd: a copy of the 171st, drawn mainly from Arluna and Winter.

174th: an Airmobile unit with a reliance on VTOL and light 'mech forces and augmented armored infantry platoons.

2nd Marine Recon: A Coast-Guard unit of armored infantry with Raptor and fighter support.  This unit is intended to specialize in commando operations and forward reconnaissance.

12th Coast Guard Division (Blackwater) (abbreviation CGD(B))

4 Squadrons, Sampan Mk. II and III, 1 Squadron CV ('light' carrier vessels), built around FCS Kowloon (Fox Class).

14th CGD (B)-same as 12th, but built around the planned FCS Inarcs

16th CGD (B) same as 12th, but built around planned FCS Arluna

18th CGD (B) same as 12th, built around FCS Yggsdrasill battle group

20th CGD (B) same as 12th, built around FCS Avalon Battlegroup

Special notes:

Sampan Mk II and Mk III utilize a hybrid drive-that is, they are able to 'twist' hyperspace using pulsed gravitics instead of mechanical motion, and a Germanium Core.  this means that at least, on that scale, the Kowloonese/Cylon design engines can get Tyllium drive jumps out of hulls above 70,000 tons (but below 200,000 tons of hydrogen mass displacement)  The modification doesn't work on smaller germanium cores such as actual 'compact' cores below 50,000 tons due to how big the artificial gravity generators have to be.  (Grav plates have a minimum size before they stop working.)

This is being released to New Circe along with contracts for the necessary tooling, but it's still on the back burner there. (not enough warm bodies to work on all the new goodies.)  the upper limit on size is due to scaling issues going the other way.

LCAF/AFFC warships have artificial gravity due to the 'Cylon Trade" through Kowloon.  Clan vessels have to rely on thrust or rotation for their gravity, and do not have inertial dampening (which even the fighters do, thanks in part to the clever fellas Liz hires to go through all the Cylon-tech stuff to see what ELSE you can do with it.  "Science isn't just to answer why, it's to answer why not?")

What this effectively means is a massive improvement in manueverability of LCAF/AFFC warships, including halving the turn radius and enabling some 'sick moves' for Cutter class vessels (Sampans and equivalent gunships) that would normally turn a crew into spaghetti-sauce-with-bone-chips.

IOW vector movement isn't just a thing, it's a thing they do really well.  the Word of Blake and Comstar haven't YET stolen this tech, really they wouldn't have to if they'd just give up their spyin' ways and buy a license...
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1153 on: 23 January 2020, 22:49:56 »
Overview: the Strategic situation post Chrome Morning...

Clans Nova Cat and Smoke Jaguar found something new to agree on: Cylons are ****** and need to be destroyed.  Their combined fleets remaining in the Inner Sphere converged on Avon, with vengeance and a lot of fire and blood in their eyes.  This campaign would take the remainder of the year to complete, netting around 1.5 million traumatized 'newts' among the survivors being rescued.

Clan Steel Viper saw the utter pasting delivered to Clan Jade Falcon as a 'come in and browse' sign, and proceeded to launch trials from their holdings, attempting to oust Falcon units from jointly held territories, and claim additional territory within the Falcon OZ. 

This...did not go so well as the Vipers expected.  One of the major reasons why, is that they attacked the Jade Falcons along the anitspinward side of the occupation zone, and in the process, this encouraged counter-attacks by the AFFC, taking advantage of the distraction to drive up the border with Katherine Morgan Steiner Davion's 1st FedCom Fleet and the 12th Kowloon Coast Guards "Looking for Cylons and anyone who isn't going to cooperate in fighting them."

this occurred roughly at the same time that the FedCom 2nd fleet, under Michael Hasek-Davion, in cooperation with the Com Guards 1st Fleet and the Draconis Combine Admiralty, initiated Operation: Bird Dog in the Draconis Combine, a recon that turned into an invasion that only stopped at the Avon line as Michael, unlike his Clan opponents, has no interest in outrunning his supply chain or getting bogged down and overextended.

and this takes us into the fall of 3057.  Sporadic attacks by the Cylons, but nothing on the scale seen on Chrome morning.  Clan Wolf's exiles along with the Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons are driving toward Tamar while 'borrowing' elements of the Coast Guard's 11th Blackwater Squadron devoted to trying to hunt Cylons, the progress is slow, because there's still plenty of fight left in the Clans, they just aren't necessarily directing it at the killer robots yet.

It's going to take some convincing.

Speaking of convincing...
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1154 on: 23 January 2020, 23:43:24 »
Jade Falcon OZ...

Marthe Pryde was about ten pounds underweight, she hadn't bothered to look her best, not after surviving on Wotan for months until being rescued...

but she was still the Khan. a fact she had to demonstrate to Samantha Clees and a selection of warriors this morning.  a fact she was willing to also demonstrate to the Steel Viper pretenders who were even now discovering what 'vigorous defense' really entails, caught between a now hardened and wrathful Inner Sphere, and a newly reinforced Falcon Touman, including warships brought from the Homeworlds at best speed, the same warships that effected the rescue of what was left of Wotan's population from the Cylons.

"I will give you a choice, Perigard.  Leave my territory, fight the Lyrans to regain yours, or go back to the Homeworlds.  I think I am being remarkably tolerant and generous, considering your Clan's pathetic attempt to capitalize on our tragedy."

"I want to challenge you for-"

"You don't have the right to challenge me, Perigard Zalman!!" she scowled, "one billion five hundred seventy three million dead" her eyes burned, "You...you do not have the right to stand with warriors. you attacked us, and lost your own territory to the Lyrans.  Go, or fight for what you have already lost, but if so much as a single drop-ship decouples, if you so much as activate a targeting radar, I will have this fleet end you."

she cracked her knuckles, "We are not leaving the Inner Sphere, Perigard. and Clan Jade Falcon has plenty of fight left in us, we have come to return, we have come to defend against a nightmare I have seen with my own eyes.  an enemy you have categorically feared to approach, even while Spheroids hunt them.  I care not, so long as the serpents leave."

"Did you bring...you brought your whole Clan? what madness-"

"We are committed, Perigard, maybe you can challenge the Snow Ravens for some of our old holdings, if you hurry back to the homeworlds." she said, "only the enclave on Strana Mechty is of any interest to Jade Falcon now. we are committed to this war, and you are in the way.  Charge  your drives, and leave.  we will fight the Spheroids for the land you so carelessly lost in your greed."

"you can not do this alone, Falcon!!  you need-"

"We have allies, here and now.  Clan Ghost Bear stands with the Falcon, Clan Wolf, even.  YOU chose to take advantage of an alien attack and lost your holdings here,  you have no strategic vision, you are blind, belly-crawling in the shade of true warriors, Leave."

Surprisingly, when the person with eight Warships loaded with warriors from the homeworlds confronts barely a galaxy-and-a-half with three warships, the larger force sometimes need not fight a trial-by refusing it.

a small breach of protocol, a small breach of honor.

but nobody had to activate weapons systems.  The Steel Vipers began their departure from Jade Falcon space without another shot being fired.

"that is going to be difficult to explain to the Grand Council."  SaKhan Clees suggested.

"I do not care." Marthe said.  "What I am going to present to them may lose us the Ghost Bears as well, but i will do so in a manner all can see, so who knows what allies we may gain from it?  This enemy is too vile, too dangerous to be allowed to exist."  she met the SaKhan's eyes.

Samantha Clees could imagine she was looking into the eyes of one who has seen hell, looking into those eyes.

"Communications, raise our Hue enclave, and get me Nathan Roshak. It is almost time."



"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1155 on: 24 January 2020, 00:32:24 »
Elizabeth House, Kowloon, 03:00 November 1, 3057...

"Nobody argues worse than family." Liz said in the darkness.

"pardon?" Nathan asked, rolling over to look her in the eyes.

"Nobody argues worse than family." she said, "something about that close relationship, Nathan, it makes everything much more intense.  It's why civil wars are so brutal.  only people who really know each other can know how to cross lines like that."

"Henry?" he asked.

she nodded, "He defected back to the Clans...and I think I hate you a little for that."

"on top of everything else?" he asked.

"On top of everything else." she agreed.  "We do hate each other, right?"

he stroked her cheek, "maybe."

"god, I'm so ****** up." she sighed.  "Why do you put up with me?"

"I have a vested interest." he smiled.  "nobody gets to kill you but me."

"same. you up for another round?"

"Aaugh, woman, you're trying to couple me to death!"

"I'll take that as 'no'." she leaned in close, and kissed him.

it turns out, he had enough in him for another round.

Noon

"Breakfast?" Liz asked, "I can make something..."

"let us say yes? please?" Nathan Roshak answered, and then, their separate pagers went off.

"Um..." Liz scrambled to get dressed, while Nathan struggled into his pants, both checking their pagers.

"jesus, now??"

"What's yours?" he asked.

"First Lord of the Star League, yours?"

"Grand Council, they want a conference call through Kiribati island.  Apparently the subject is..."

and they both said, "Clan Wolverine."

"******!!! NoW??" Elizabeth cursed. "Gawd dammit! That's all we need, another sixteen hour marathon of people refusing to talk to each other!  NICK! JACK!! Wake up guys! we've gotta go to the big meeting room!"

"you know, if you were more traditionally noble, we could have the installation in a palace!" Jack answered over the intercom as he powered up his chassis.

"If I were traditionally noble, I wouldn't be paying you two a fraction of what you're worth!" Liz argued back, while grabbing two cups and the coffee thermos.  she met Nathan's eyes, "Sorry, Bagels and fruit okay?"

"Sure." he said, and she tossed him a breakfast-bagel and handed him a cup, "We'll have coffee on the way..."

the Cylons met them in the front yard, with the car warming up.

"Keys?"

Liz ran back up the steps and locked the front door, arming the unobtrusive security system.  She returned at a run, bounding into the back seat.  Her cylon bodyguards taking up the front seat (which has the padding on the back, behind the steel-tubing reinforcements of the custom seats), and Star Colonel Roshak joined her.

"You know, we keep doing this, people are going to talk." He said.

"They already are." Jack said helpfully, "The local network has several hundred pages speculating on your wedding plans."

"Oh bugger." Nick groused, as he put the car into drive. "This again."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Shadow_Wraith

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1156 on: 24 January 2020, 00:36:41 »
Nice update!   So clan SV is going back to he homewords?  I wonder is they will make it?   is Clan WiE going to absorb their former Clan Wolf members and do a reborn Clan Wolf?   Oh so what plans do the Jade falcon have with Liz?

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1157 on: 24 January 2020, 01:00:53 »
in the Car...

What do Cylon Centurions spend money on?  this is a speculation that fills quite a few pages on the infosphere of the Kowloon March Theater.  I guess I am the best set to answer that, being a Centurion who gets paid.

I buy music, enjoy art, Literature, and online membership games.  That's of course a fraction of what I spend my pay on. I also dabble in banking and investments, with a really nice stock portfolio.  Jack likes to waste his, investing in high-risk, low-return 'business ventures', essentially he gambles, but with consequences, and buys subscription memberships to media outlets.

We're pretty typical for Centurions.  Let me expand on that;  Rembrandt commissions art and sculpture, Thor (the commander of Company I in the 171st) pays for epic poems to be written or translated and buys original artwork  to understand, we are not creatures of 'sensation', we are creatures of almost pure intellect.  Art, culture, and gambling in various ways, from safe ventures like my stock trading, to risky things like Jack's venture-capitalism or Thor's sponsorship of poets and writers, it's our distraction, our entertainment, and as necessary to our sanity as eating is to human life.

we all, of course, invest in the various custom shops.  New body panels and chassis alterations is another big ticket item.  You don't think this engraving is cheap, do you?  Try asking a tattoo artist for such extensive work for cheap.  Mine includes epic scenes from fantasy and novels-that's not my duty chassis, of course.  My duty chassis is fresh and military and well cared for.  my off-duty chassis, on the other hand, is a work of art depicting scenes from classical literature ranging from 'The Hobbit' to 'Star Dragon'.

of course, this can't account for all of it.  have you ever seen a motorcycle designed for a Cylon Centurion? I have three.  They're powered by 7.5 liter engines, and make enough torque at the back wheel to pull a 5 ton truck out of a ditch.  The paintjob and body work on my bikes are, to put in the vernacular of the clubs along Highway One, 'sick'.  if I had a mouth, i'd smile when I say that.

Humans, are cursed with limited options for personal contact.  I meld with a hottie in the Raider wing.  She's got paired fusion engines and a modified Tyllium drive and we both love the same books, though she's also a fan of human Spec-fics like 'Star Dragon' or the Living Warship series ("Explorers on the Torch", "Galaxy Center" and "Reaper Incident" so far.)  our bodies might be completely different, I walk and have hands, she flies and has none..but as minds, we meet right in the middle.  Met her while playing a subscription MMO set in the "Supernatural Hunter" universe (our guild are Campbell-Winchesters).  Her character kind of looks like a short Six with straight hair.  Mine, of course, is like half the players on our server-based on Sammael Winchester.  (Jack uses a Deane template for his, when he bothers to log in.)

the point is, humans may spend their pay on drink, and food, and shelter, with a little left over for entertainment.  we mostly spend our pay on entertainment and sick custom mods...but we're all not so different, once you get past the flesh and steel.

and we all gossip.

I check my six, and Her Grace is leaning against Nathan Roshak, trying to get relaxed? maybe. or maybe just enjoying close physical contact the way humans do.  I think, objectively, they make a splendid pair.  Certainly in spite of the nastiness they throw at one another, they fit together in a way that is rare.

Jack, the idiot, thinks they're adorable, but he also encourages those gossip sites.  Traffic is light, this isn't an accident.  one of the little jobs we have, is making sure traffic is light when she needs it, mostly by sending a code to the stop-and-go signals to clear the route to the local airfield.

not that I'm without imagination.  heh.  They are cute together.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1158 on: 24 January 2020, 01:27:25 »
Kiribati Island Diplomatic Reserve...

Elizabeth got her first surprise of the morning, after having her breakfast interrupted.

there were people from clans other than Jade Falcon already seated, though the rest of the screens were in their usual places with camera feeds.

"At last we meet in person, Duchess."  Marthe Pryde!! oh shit. "Nathan.  explanations can wait."

He let go of her arm, and Liz watched him take his seat.

"This is Khan Nelson Elam, a Khan from Goliath Scorpion, this, is the SaKhan of Clan Snow Raven."  Marthe said, "This is Khan Aletha Kabrinski, of Clan Ghost Bear, and this, is Khan Vladimir Ward."

"Met your opposite number on Tharkad." Liz said, inclining her head to the Wolf Khan.  "You're all here, how in hell did you end up getting here without someone waking me up?"

"I'm afraid that's my fault, Duchess."  Victor said, taking a seat on the Star League side of the room.  "I'm afraid we kind of decided springing this on you was going to be simpler than giving you an excuse to get shot, or disappear into one of your other activities."

Elizabeth flinched visibly.  "okay, has everyone else had breakfast?"

"Hours ago." Khan Elam said.

"no Novacats?" Liz asked, "Three out of six..."

"Five." Marthe corrected her, "Three out of five invading clans, the Steel Vipers found they have business...urgent business, in the Homeworlds and will not be returning any time soon.  I understand it is taking their entire touman.  I would like to sample some local foods?  Nathan's reports have been fascinating."

Liz motioned and a Steward approached, "Take her order." Liz said, "I'll have a farmer's special...and get some damn snacks out for our guests...two star or less."

"FIVE." Marthe said, "Make mine five."  she turned to her fellow Khans, and Nelson Elam grinned, "They say Kowloonese quisine is a test of courage, Khan Pryde..."

"We will see."

"People say that about any food that has taste." Liz countered, before taking her own seat.  "Alright, so the message now makes more sense, they told me you were here to look at the University's iron womb project."

"That is for the Scientist caste." Khan Elam said, "we are here to discuss the Not-Name...er, the Wolverines."

the doors on the soutwest wall opened, and Commodore Ferry entered with a group of his officers, accompanied by two Colonial officers Liz had seen before.

"and nobody told me you were in town either." Elizabeth face-palmed while Victor chuckled.

she didn't even need to order a steward to take theirs-they came armed with menus.

she peered through her fingers, nobody's drawing weapons.

"Alright, so who else is showing up?" she asked.

"Just the usual suspects." Victor said, as screens came to life, revealing the rest of the Star League council on one side of the room, and holostages that must have been brought by the Clan Khans, lit, filling in the remainder of the Grand Council.

a full house.

it filled Elizabeth with a dark certainty.  there's gonna be a fight.

« Last Edit: 24 January 2020, 14:16:10 by Cannonshop »
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

glitterboy2098

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1159 on: 24 January 2020, 01:48:05 »
as long as it stays in that room instead of boiling over to the IS at large, it counts as progress.

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1160 on: 24 January 2020, 01:56:05 »
the Kowloon Conference, version 3057...

Khan Pryde waited for the food to be served, somewhat pleased at the discomfort evidenced by the Khans who weren't here. 

It was pretty good food.  the back bite of heat was pleasing, and the sensation of her capillaries opening up was a pleasant tingle with a bit of heat that warmed her from within.

not bad at all.

"I have to admit, Nathan, she is cute." Marthe said, "still, a civilian?"

He chuckled.  "She has depth." he assured his Khan.

"We are all here to correct an error."  Khan Pryde spoke, standing.  "This meeting is witnessed by the Inner Sphere, the Star League, and we are here to correct a grave mistake. For the record, this is the first time that a verdict of Annihilation has been revisited in Clan history.  mark this day, a precedent will be set, one way, or the other."

she turned, "I yeild time to Khan Vladimir Ward of Clan Wolf..."

Vlad stood, leaning slightly, his own wounds from the weeks of battle  on Tamar (and subsequent aggressive therapies to cleanse him of radiation poison) still not fully healed.  "Clan Wolf submits the personal journals of Nicholas Kerensky to evidence in this trial of appeal." He spoke, "Which contain material contrary to the official record, Khan Elam, you have reviewed the relevant sections, quiaff?"

"Aff."

"For the purposes of this tribunal, we will be reviewing the known facts, official records, and materials previously suppressed in order to either uphold the Annihilation verdict, or overturn it.  Each Khan present or observing will recieve their time to present evidence in support of, or against, the precedent of the Annihilation verdict.  In addition, we will hear the claims of the Wolverines on the matter.  I would encourage my fellow Khans to maintain some dignity and decorum in this proceeding, I also caution the Inner Sphere observers to keep an open mind and refrain from insults, challenges, or outbursts until it is their turn to speak."  He leveled gray eyes at Liz in particular, "I am aware of the Kowloonese position regarding the Elbar Declaration and acknowledge that is your current position on this matter."

He turned to the rest of the Khans, and stepped out into the center of the basketball court.  "Understand, if this verdict is not upheld, a great many of us will have to change traditions that are centuries old at this point, some even core traditions of our Clans, and this change may require fighting a great many grievances and refusals.  this is a very serious matter, not to be taken lightly."  Dramatically, he pointed at Liz, "But, so will they, if the verdict is upheld."

"there are three judgements that can come of this;  the Annihilation can be upheld, the Annihilation can be converted to Abjuration, or, a verdict of absorption can be pursued-consider that it may be impossible to achieve that last one, so it is merely hypothetical at this point.  We will begin with the simplest of the issues that promote this: Clan Wolf has failed in their trial of Annihilation. My clan failed to annihilate the Wolverines, as evidenced not only by their presence here, but their presence at Alshain, a presence that saved over a billion people, and saved that world from the fates of Tamar, Wotan, and Avon.  this fact is not in dispute, it is a fact, it can not be refused, or denied.  We failed."  he rocked on his toes, before adding, "And Nicholas Kerensky, the Founder, lied about it.  this lie brings into question everything leading up to the Annihilation."

THAT drew gasps of disbelief, shocked expressions.

"Thus, we must reconsider everything." Vladimir announced.  "All of it. I yield my time to Khan Aletha Kabrinski of Clan Ghost Bear."  he took his seat.

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Sharpnel

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1161 on: 24 January 2020, 02:06:51 »
And now the Clans should be shaken down to their collective core.
Consigliere Trygg Bender, CRD-3BL Crusader, The Blazer Mafia
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, SHD-2H Shadow Hawk 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company

"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
As I get older, I realize that I'm not as good as I once was.
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1162 on: 24 January 2020, 03:38:54 »
Continued

"I defer my comment at this time for a later slot." Kabrinski said, and sat down.

"I guess it is on me, as the resident historian." Khan Elam spoke, standing.  "We will begin at the beginning.  Clan Wolverine was founded six years after the death of Aleksandr Kerensky, on June eleventh, twenty-eight-oh-Seven, as one of the original  founding Clans.  for fifteen years, they built their forces alongside the rest of the Clans, until Operation Klondike, the effort to retake the Pentagon worlds and bring an end to incessant civil wars there, took place, beginning on the second of July, 2821.  Clan Wolverine was tasked in tandem with Clan Snow Raven against the Sand Confederacy, on the northern continental mass of Circe in the Pentagon worlds."

He paused, "Most of the relevant records of the following year were purged as part of the Annihilation verdict.  the next relevant record occurs in twenty-eight-twenty-two, when the Khan of Clan Wolverine, one Sarah McEvedy, was called to task for violating the Clan Caste system, allowing free movement between castes in an apparent attempt to increase agricultural output.  it is not mentioned how the IlKhan found out about this, but it was apparently sufficient evidence to get a minor censure, and to justify increased surveillance on them.  In july of the following year, twenty eight twenty three, the incidents that led to the Annihilation vote began.  It began with a dispute over a Brian Cache in the Tiki province of Circe.  Jade Falcon trialed for the site and failed to secure possession.   Khan Lisa Buhallin of Clan Jade Falcon brought the matter to the IlKhan, as the cache contained a store of thermonuclear weapons."

at this, Liz stifled a chuckle that drew the Khan's attention.  "Duchess, what is amusing about that?"

"Kowloon by itself probably has more nukes than that cache." Liz said.  "The current stockpile in service is about thirty thousand warheads."

several Khans paled visibly.

"oops." Liz said, "I should check this morning's numbers, shouldn't I? it might have increased by as many as thirty...Oh, go on, do continue, Khan Elam.  we're getting to the juicy part and I want to hear it all."

"THIRTY THOUSAND?"  Khan Perigard Zalman's holoimage was aghast.

"Yeah, we use them for engineering projects." Liz said quietly, "you know, breaking big rocks into smaller ones that fit in a smelter, or stress-testing new technologies, or geosurvey work."  she shrugs, "They're just tools man...they only become weapons when we strap guidance modules and delivery systems to them." she reached into her pocket, "here...my certification card, I'm qualified for both deployment and ordnance disposal, including thermonuclear ordnance. They're tools, and tools can be misused, but they're just tools."





« Last Edit: 24 January 2020, 03:44:24 by Cannonshop »
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Sharpnel

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1163 on: 24 January 2020, 03:42:21 »
19 Founding Clans? Shouldn't that be 20?
Consigliere Trygg Bender, CRD-3BL Crusader, The Blazer Mafia
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, SHD-2H Shadow Hawk 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company

"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
As I get older, I realize that I'm not as good as I once was.
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1164 on: 24 January 2020, 03:44:36 »
19 Founding Clans? Shouldn't that be 20?

good catch.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1165 on: 24 January 2020, 04:05:42 »
Continued...at Recess...

Recess was called shortly after, to let the Khans confer, and Nathan joined Liz outside.

"Just tools?"

"yeah." she said, and skipped a rock into the lake.  "Just tools. want real fun you oughta see what a mass-driver can do when some jackass gets the load setting wrong.  Or consider that I manufacture industrial lasers to cut armor plate." she turned to him, "Some of the weapons you guys use, are less destructive in the wrong hands than the machinery my firm manufactures, it's all in how you use it.  I don't buy the Dehra Dun story."

"You see holes in it?"

"YEP." Liz said, "one thing I learned early, was you don't leave an enemy at your back, this McEvedy chick, she couldn't have been naive enough to evacuate a city, THEN deploy a nuke, that doesn't work. that's bad strategy.  There still ARE Wolverines, which suggests she had a good damn strategy."

"What would you have done?" he asked.

"Waited for the Grand Council to gather, then decapitated the whole edifice, probably with a rock." Liz stated, "the math isn't hard and it can 'look' like an accident.  Oops, nobody was watching that part of the sky, here comes a nickel-iron hammer! you don't even have to get nuclear warhead close with that, and poof! now she's the only leader left. she didn't do that, she didn't use a nuke on the other Khans either-which doesn't make sense if she was enough of a threat that genociding her civilians was an acceptable option."

"maybe...she wanted to and they were too well protected?" he suggested.

"I can, with a stopwatch and a chemical rocket, drop a nickel iron asteroid on the Triad from half an AU out, and i only learned orbital mechanics recently." Liz argued, "A nuke is smaller and harder to detect, and it doesn't even need to be under thrust for that long." she shook her head, "nope.  doesn't work.  Motive might be there, but method doesn't line up.  Nobody dropped a rock, or a Nuke, or even artillery on the Hall of Khans, and that would be my number one go-to for making a statement with an atrocity.  hit the head, the rest dies immediately, do it clever, and the rest end up following you by default because you're their only viable option. she did neither, and she had motive, method and opportunity.  Her first move was to get her people the hell out, stopping for a sight-seeing tour of aggravation doesn't work. something is missing from the record, but that missing piece smells a lot like frame-up."

"Especially taken in context with Vladimir Ward's confession."

"It's only confession if YOU did it. if someone else did it, it's an admission, but not a confession." Liz said blandly, and crushed her smoke out.  "He admitted a failure, the record-purging suggests a cover-up of a failure."

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1166 on: 24 January 2020, 04:34:36 »
Recess continued

Marthe Pryde joined them as Liz was idly flicking stones.

"You certainly cause panic, Duchess Ngo." she said, "Zalman was positively horrified."

"you knew." Liz said, "watched your face."

"I knew." Marthe confirmed, "I saw the video of you as a school-child, and I have seen your executions."

"Yeah...I guess you would watch that." Liz said, "I'm not happy about having to do those, but if i won't, who will?"

"Anyone you ordered to." Marthe said.

"yeah, but then, they get stuck remembering it." Liz told her, "Which isn't right. if you're not willing to do it yourself, you don't  have the right to demand it of someone else."

"your 'nuclear certificate'?" Marthe asked.

"Yeah." Liz said, "if I stick someone else with having had to use it, I better be willing to live with doing it via my own hands, if I give the nuclear release to my people, and I have, I have to be willing to accept the responsibility.  It comes with the job."

"I agree." Marthe said, "You would have made a good Clan Warrior."

"De-Fective." Liz said, "born broken, I wouldn't make a good warrior, heck, I'm not sure I make a good leader, I'm improvising my ass off.  My brother Henry? now he is a good warrior. so good he went back to your side because I can't let him fight for ours."

"Why not?"

"because in spite of my best efforts, I still have to tolerate rules." Liz said, "one of those, is that you have to be able to pass a security exam and background check, and he's a defector-we don't have or use bondsmen here."

"you can change that rule." Marthe told her.

"part of the job, I don't make rules on that level." Liz sighed, "If I could, I wouldn't have had to ask Victor to suspend the Militia Act.  Kowloon was forced to sign the Ares Conventions after Running Deer Mountain, we then joined the Lyran Commonwealth, so it's both in our law, and in the law we adopted, I literally can't without breaking my people's word, I tried to get that changed when I got Henry back..." she looked at the Falcon Khan, "but it failed in the Assembly.  So I had to let him go where he could do and be what he was meant to do and be."

"Who forced it?" Marthe asked.

"General Aleksandr Kerensky." Liz answered, "He made it a condition for our continued involvement in punishing the Rim Worlders, he didn't want another Running Deer Mountain.  We had to stop using enemy prisoners as bayonet practice, crucifying war criminals, and stringing up collaborators. One of the Ares conventions, I believe in article two, or three, prevents the use of POW's in war industries, war production, or as combatant elements on the battlefield.  the Bondsman process violates that at least three ways."

"So, something we can do, and you can not, quiaff?"

'yep." Liz said.

"You will sort it out.  In the meantime, I may need to replace Nathan Roshak here." Marthe told her, "And having local ties is convenient."

"What?"

"Your brother is almost Twenty five and only returning after a prolonged absence." Marthe told her, "that puts him behind recent Sibko graduates, to make use of him, I have determined his best chances are with Beta Galaxy, assigned to Hue.  like it or do not, you will be working more closely with Clan forces. get used to it...oh my, look at the time!"

"WHAT??" Liz felt a surge of emotion, "What do you mean you're replacing Roshak??"

Marthe measured her with a cool gaze.  "if you want him, fight for him." and walked away.
« Last Edit: 24 January 2020, 04:39:11 by Cannonshop »
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1167 on: 24 January 2020, 04:52:52 »
Oh that can't possibly end badly...  ::)

Cannonshop

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1168 on: 24 January 2020, 04:58:22 »
Oh that can't possibly end badly...  ::)

Ohyeah.  Marthe's got her number, and on speed dial. she knows exactly how to get under Lizzie's skin.  There's also the dominance angle.  She knows Liz chafes under her rules and under her (admittedly demented) code of honor-Marthe's got her measure, and wants to score some coup-either way, if Liz challenges, she wins, and on some level, both of them know it.  Marthe wins if Liz fights, not if Liz loses, because the loss is making Elizabeth go against her own rules to follow Clanner rules.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: Teaser for a proposed...thing.
« Reply #1169 on: 24 January 2020, 05:09:09 »
I lay even odds on Liz getting Roshak to defect... take THAT...  ::)