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Author Topic: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?  (Read 5119 times)

RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #120 on: 28 December 2019, 07:37:47 »
The original WFH-1 was built with existing components to keep it affordable as any other light mech and according to the MUL, is available to Mercenaries in general. House Kurita had already declared the Death to Mercenaries order so any deals for DC salvage would be with the Black Market where there is usually a mark up for I'll gotten goods.

That said, no reason to not go with another Light with more history.

I didn't say it wasn't available. I said I didn't think it'd be cheap or how available it may be. The mark up could be high and there could be a waiting list for it. I'm sure quite a few would be willing to pay the price and wait for delivery. Others though might need something now and not be willing to wait or pay the mark up.

blackjack

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #121 on: 29 December 2019, 16:27:36 »
Using the ubiquitous quirk from the battlemech manual, meaning if you close your eyes & throw a rock you probably going to hit one of these mechs. Also means you can pick them up cheap & everyone usually knows how to work on them. There a house models that add some flavor. The list:
Archer
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Warhammer
Rifleman
Griffin
Wolverine
Shadow Hawk
Phoenix Hawk
Stinger
Wasp
Locust
 I'm a fan of the three 55 ton generalist mechs. If concerned with head armor on the Pixie use the Kurita non jumper. If you can get your hands on a copy of 3039 tech readout its a great read & lets you see what mech factories were destroyed also if a mech is built in multiple facilities.
« Last Edit: 29 December 2019, 16:33:48 by blackjack »
#704

JPArbiter

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #122 on: 14 January 2020, 19:17:12 »
Sll MechWarriors ate Phoenix Hawk bound.
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truetanker

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #123 on: 20 January 2020, 22:15:48 »
Panther
Vindicator
Whitworth
Whitworth

All jumpy. 2 PPCs, lots of ML and LRM spam and a solid SRMS punch.

Also recommend a Warhammer-6D, Archer-2s and paired Thuds, one Davion and other Steiner. Makes a great presentation FedCom unit.

TT
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DOC_Agren

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #124 on: 20 January 2020, 23:33:51 »
Also recommend a Warhammer-6D, Archer-2s and paired Thuds, one Davion and other Steiner. Makes a great presentation FedCom unit.
TT
or a Lyran Recon Lance
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truetanker

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #125 on: 21 January 2020, 14:17:24 »
But then it'll need to be all S models...

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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SteelRaven

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #126 on: 21 January 2020, 15:15:03 »
But then it'll need to be all S models...

TT
Criminally, the only S Model Warhammer was post FedCom. There is still a lot you can do with a level one Wammy.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #127 on: 21 January 2020, 15:46:12 »
Criminally, the only S Model Warhammer was post FedCom. There is still a lot you can do with a level one Wammy.

But is it still a Warhammer if you pull off a PPC and a bunch of smaller guns to put a AC/20 in a side torso?
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SteelRaven

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #129 on: 21 January 2020, 16:46:13 »
But is it still a Warhammer if you pull off a PPC and a bunch of smaller guns to put a AC/20 in a side torso?

I was thinking removing the machine guns or downgrading the SRM 6 to a SRM 4  for more armor rather than creating a knockoff Shootist (though I'm sure many have post MWO) a WHM-S6 with a SRM 4 would parallel the 2X SSRM 2s on the WHM-7S in a way that makes sense but that is mute point outside the Fan Build section.

Back on topic, the Warhammer WHM-6R is the most common variant across the sphere regardless. The distribution of the WHM-6D is debatable, it's a very simple variant to make and fit the bill as a solid workhorse that would be cheap to maintain though the MUL leaves the impression of few leaving the FedSuns territory short of those reallocated throughout the AFFC during the clan invasion.
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Daryk

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #130 on: 21 January 2020, 20:42:00 »
6Ds are quite nice.  Shame they weren't proliferated more... Of course, all it takes is an AToW character with a Davion affiliation to sink 200 XP into Custom Vehicle...  ^-^

JPArbiter

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #131 on: 23 January 2020, 23:32:27 »
For the fedcom civil war onward I cannot speak highly enough for the PXH-3PL Phoenix Hawk. Pulse + Tarcomp makes shooting very forgiving at a dash over 1200 bv

Phoenix Hawks in general benefit from the Ubiquitous perk, making finding replacement parts easy.

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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #132 on: 24 January 2020, 00:09:54 »
The Kintaro and Dervish work really well together.

Greatclub

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #133 on: 24 January 2020, 03:27:34 »
When you look at the makeup of the units in some of the earliest products, you see lots of bugs.

The foxes teeth & the black widows, four each of wasp and/or stinger. Sorrenson's sabers two, and they're lavishly equipped sword of light.

If your unit doesn't have at least 25% wasp, locust, stinger, hornet, flea, or other under-size deathtrap, it isn't authentic 3rd succession war.


Hellraiser

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #134 on: 24 January 2020, 03:35:46 »
Aint that the truth!
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Kovax

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #135 on: 24 January 2020, 11:47:29 »
When you look at the makeup of the units in some of the earliest products, you see lots of bugs.

The foxes teeth & the black widows, four each of wasp and/or stinger. Sorrenson's sabers two, and they're lavishly equipped sword of light.

If your unit doesn't have at least 25% wasp, locust, stinger, hornet, flea, or other under-size deathtrap, it isn't authentic 3rd succession war.
Good point.  It's like in "historical" war games, where somebody fields a German armor division with all Tigers and no Panzer IIs, IIIs, and IVs.  Everyone wants to play the chess equivalent of Queens (preferably several on the board at a time), Bishops, Knights, and Rooks; forget about fielding any pawns.  Unfortunately in my opinion, the push over time toward better (lower to-hit number) gunnery skills and the introduction of Pulse weapons has made the survivability of the lighter 'Mechs rather tenuous.

Most BattleTech games are fought on small maps, with no victory conditions aside from "kill everything", no advantages for strategic-level movement, and no critical assets behind the lines to defend, rendering light, fast scouting and raiding units practically superfluous.  That said, a fast unit can often backstab heavier units, or pick off previously damaged units, as well as giving the opponent the choice of taking low-odds shots at the fragile annoyance that's gradually picking away at their weak spots, or easy shots at the units in front of them which are more able to absorb the damage.

wanderer25

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #136 on: 24 January 2020, 23:16:05 »
When you look at the makeup of the units in some of the earliest products, you see lots of bugs.

The foxes teeth & the black widows, four each of wasp and/or stinger. Sorrenson's sabers two, and they're lavishly equipped sword of light.

If your unit doesn't have at least 25% wasp, locust, stinger, hornet, flea, or other under-size deathtrap, it isn't authentic 3rd succession war.

Keep in mind at the time those early supplements were written , there were only the 16 original unseen. Later work had a wider variety  to draw on.
At the time, the mad max/ mech are really scarces meme was still in effect, hence the pressing of light  recon units into  line trooper  slots.


Still for 2nd line/militias/small mercs, bug mechs are likely to be common in front line positions
 

Sartris

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #137 on: 25 January 2020, 02:46:41 »
Keep in mind at the time those early supplements were written , there were only the 16 original unseen. Later work had a wider variety  to draw on.
At the time, the mad max/ mech are really scarces meme was still in effect, hence the pressing of light  recon units into  line trooper  slots.


Still for 2nd line/militias/small mercs, bug mechs are likely to be common in front line positions
 

Ok the Black Widow company needs some light mechs. Let's roll them up.

Light RAT (1985)

2 Locust
3 Stinger
4 Wasp
5 Stinger
6 Wasp
7 Stinger
8 Wasp
9 Stinger
10 Wasp
11 Stinger
12 Locust

I cannot BELIEVE it turned out like this

RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #138 on: 25 January 2020, 03:13:59 »
The Black Widows could also use Hornets, Fireflies, and Fleas.

Colt Ward

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #139 on: 25 January 2020, 04:16:03 »
The Black Widows could also use Hornets, Fireflies, and Fleas.

Except when the book was written, did they exist IRL?
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truetanker

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #140 on: 25 January 2020, 10:36:37 »
Short answer: no.

Long story: there's also the Falcon and the Sling.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Sartris

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #141 on: 25 January 2020, 11:00:17 »
Except when the book was written, did they exist IRL?

They did not. Those didn’t appear until the goons sourcebook four years later (and why I clearly labeled the joke RAT 1985)

the original scenario book used (at least in part) battledroids rules, which is why you get the super wasp and super griffin with mad huge jumping ability

RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #142 on: 25 January 2020, 11:20:55 »
In 1985? No they didn't. However TRO:3025 was printed the next year giving writers a greater selection of mechs to choose from.
However, when Wolf's Dragoons was printed in 1989 the 16 were still widely used. The Black Widow Training Battalion made up mostly of those mechs 1990.

1985 Tales of the Black Widow has the Company using 1 Wasp and 3 Stingers. In 1989 Wolf Dragoons gives the Black Widow Company 2 Fireflies, 1 Hornet, and 2 Stingers. That book also introduced the Firefly, Hornet, and Flea. They get a Flea when the unit expands to Battalion size in More Tales of the Black Widow (1990).

RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #143 on: 25 January 2020, 11:28:01 »
Short answer: no.

Long story: there's also the Falcon and the Sling.

TT

The Sling? No. The Dragoons didn't use the Sling. It went extinct long before the Dragoons were formed.



They did not. Those didn’t appear until the goons sourcebook four years later (and why I clearly labeled the joke RAT 1985)

the original scenario book used (at least in part) battledroids rules, which is why you get the super wasp and super griffin with mad huge jumping ability

I think TRO:3025 was also written with Battledroids fresh in the writers minds. Some of the fluff, like that of the Scorpion, talks about heat sinks being mounted in the legs but Battletech Rules puts the heat sinks in the engine.
« Last Edit: 25 January 2020, 11:39:53 by RifleMech »

truetanker

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #144 on: 25 January 2020, 11:39:05 »
Now that's untrue...

Some prototypes faught before Kerensky left... House Liao made a mech based off it, Smoked Kitties used it to make the Mystic Lynx Omni.

Just because a design is old, don't mean it's not being used.  Old SLDF equipment was sent along as it was thought not to attract attention... the Imp did, but a Sling?  We know that Comstar had a few, but mothballed them in favor of more important things.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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RifleMech

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #145 on: 25 January 2020, 11:52:42 »
Now that's untrue...

Some prototypes faught before Kerensky left... House Liao made a mech based off it, Smoked Kitties used it to make the Mystic Lynx Omni.

Just because a design is old, don't mean it's not being used.  Old SLDF equipment was sent along as it was thought not to attract attention... the Imp did, but a Sling?  We know that Comstar had a few, but mothballed them in favor of more important things.

TT

The Sling was produced in small numbers but that doesn't mean that survived. Mechs based on them could be made by looking at images, plans, specs, and so on. Furthermore, Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook doesn't list any Slings. And how do we know Comstar had Slings? Where's that written? Plus the MUL has them being only being used by the Lyrans and Capellans in the early Succession Wars. Then they're extinct.

Sartris

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #146 on: 25 January 2020, 13:28:31 »
They haven’t used the sling until they have (much like the above-mentioned WD sourcebook mechs added in 1989). Potentiality works fine for your in-home goons scenarios, but “could have maybe theoretically under the right circumstances had one and used it” isn’t the same as “used it”

Future BattleTech canon is essentially quantum superpositioning. It could be canon eventually. It could not be forever, but since it hasn’t been observed, it’s neither.

Regardless, a sling is clearly not something a budding merc is going to have in any period. Bugs mechs are.

Greatclub

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Re: Solid, abundant, cheap workhorse mechs for a budding new merc outfit?
« Reply #147 on: 25 January 2020, 21:06:14 »
Even the 3072 black widows have a couple bugs - a locust (A really fast, respectable locust, but still a locust) and a firefly (Get the guy who boosts the recon lances initiative out of that deathtrap, screw the piloting bonus he gets in it)