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Author Topic: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)  (Read 559 times)

Cannonshop

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heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« on: 05 December 2019, 06:35:50 »
IMHO, the Roc is the best balanced of the canon Protomechs, because a point of five of them, is equal to a heavier Medium battlemech in terms of movement and firepower.

That's my own take.

To me, a point of Protos should move together, sharing a movement curve, and five Rocs is a LOT of firepower moving at 5/8/5, able to play offense without losing much, able to spread out to create a dangerous defensive line with mutual fires and cross fire potential.

So, here's the challenge:

Design 5 Protomechs, with the same movement curve, roughly equal survival and endurance, with different weapons to fill the different roles you see in a common 'trooper' type medium or heavier 'mech.  Armor values can flex, depending on what other gear you give them, but they all have to be able to match one another's speed, and we're looking at brakets for comparison.

What do I mean?

3/5: This is the most common speed for Assault 'mechs.  Your point has to be able to deliver roughly the throw weight of a well-armed, general purpose Assault 'mech such as a Battlemaster, which said assault 'mech has multiple weapons systems.

4/6: Most common Heavy mech.  Comparisons to the Thunderbolt, Warhammer, etc.

5/8: a bit more flexible, this must match the throw weight of a 55 ton to 50 ton range with a 5/8 ground speed. (Classic 55 ton trio, etc.)

6/9: Low end Medium or high end light again. Points of comparison being the 45 down to 30 ton brackets, (Phoenixhawk, Valkyrie, etc.)

7/11: Mid-level Lights (30 to 25 tons)

9 or higher walk: 20 ton machines.

Pick your bracket, design your protos, post 'em here, and discuss which battlemech they're 'roughly equivalent to when working together in a point'.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #1 on: 05 December 2019, 13:47:26 »

Superheavy protos allowed?  Quad protos allowed?  WiGE protos allowed?
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
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Cannonshop

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #2 on: 06 December 2019, 01:07:17 »
Superheavy protos allowed?  Quad protos allowed?  WiGE protos allowed?

Let's keep it to the fewest optional rules possible for now.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

RevenVrake

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #3 on: 06 December 2019, 03:11:06 »
So what if we manage to fit almost everything in smaller form that the bigger one carried? Plus, five of these weigh 75 Tons! It works...right?

Code: [Select]
Orion Protomech
Mass: 15 tons
Power Plant: 90 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets:
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 ER Medium Laser
     1 SRM 3
     1 LRM 5
     2 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3131
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-X
Cost: 1,548,906.25 C-bills

Type: Orion
Technology Base: Clan (Experimental)
Tonnage: 15
Battle Value: 583

Equipment                                         Mass (kg)
Internal Structure                                1,500
Engine                        90                  3,000
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:                   9                   2,250
Cockpit:                                            750
Armor Factor:                 67                  3,350

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    4         9     
     Torso                   15        30   
     R/L Arm                4/4       6/6   
     Legs                    8         16   
     Main Gun                -         -     

Weapons
and Ammo              Location        Mass
SRM 3 Ammo (5)           BD            150
LRM 5 Ammo (6)           BD            250
LRM 5                    T            1000
SRM 3                    T             750
ER Medium Laser          T            1000
ER Small Laser           LA            500
ER Small Laser           RA            500

FIVE of these things is a scary thought walking towards you. The ER Medium Laser mimics the old AC-10s range and does slightly less damage but no ammo concerns. The two ER Small Lasers do the same damage as the IS Medium Laser (Albeit at shorter ranges). The LRM-5 is a third the size of the one on the mech, but damn you get five of them in a Point of these things, that's an LRM-25! With six rounds of ammo!

The SRM-3 is there to almost match the short range firepower of the SRM-4, but with five of them (15 tubes) you get considerably more throw weight. Plus the SRM-3 lets a unit carry infernos and in theory kill a BA suit with one barrage each.

So Damage Output:

Five ER Medium Lasers: 35 Points
Ten ER Small Lasers: 50 Points (!)
5 LRM-5 Launchers: 25 Points
5 SRM-3 Launchers: 30 Points

For a possible Point of them doing 140 points of damage a round. That's not...inconsiderable.

2915 BV2 for a point of them. That is expensive I will admit.
7,744,531.25 in Cbills though...which is roughly half a million cheaper than a Clan Wolf Orion IIC Battlemech. Or a million more than a stock IS Orion mech :P
« Last Edit: 06 December 2019, 04:39:04 by RevenVrake »

Cannonshop

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #4 on: 06 December 2019, 04:22:13 »
So what if we manage to fit almost everything in smaller form that the bigger one carried? Plus, five of these weigh 75 Tons! It works...right?

Code: [Select]
Orion Protomech
Mass: 15 tons
Power Plant: 90 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets:
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 ER Medium Laser
     1 SRM 3
     1 LRM 5
     2 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3131
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-X
Cost: 1,548,906.25 C-bills

Type: Orion
Technology Base: Clan (Experimental)
Tonnage: 15
Battle Value: 583

Equipment                                         Mass (kg)
Internal Structure                                1,500
Engine                        90                  3,000
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:                   9                   2,250
Cockpit:                                            750
Armor Factor:                 67                  3,350

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    4         9     
     Torso                   15        30   
     R/L Arm                4/4       6/6   
     Legs                    8         16   
     Main Gun                -         -     

Weapons
and Ammo              Location        Mass
SRM 3 Ammo (5)           BD            150
LRM 5 Ammo (6)           BD            250
LRM 5                    T            1000
SRM 3                    T             750
ER Medium Laser          T            1000
ER Small Laser           LA            500
ER Small Laser           RA            500

FIVE of these things is a scary thought walking towards you.

nicely done.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

RevenVrake

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #5 on: 06 December 2019, 04:28:01 »
nicely done.

I do admit I cheated Bent the Rules Slightly with my Orion. It's a Super-Heavy proto (weighing in at 15 tons). But it was the thing I had at hand right now for an idea. Plus, there is an out of game reason I prefer the Super-Heavies and that is you don't need a specially grown pilot to operate them like the 9 Ton and under protomechs. You can freely have regular freebirths and even elemental washouts try out for the Super Heavy Protomechs and that gives you a much greater pool of potential pilots to pull from.

Cannonshop

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #6 on: 06 December 2019, 08:30:19 »
I do admit I cheated Bent the Rules Slightly with my Orion. It's a Super-Heavy proto (weighing in at 15 tons). But it was the thing I had at hand right now for an idea. Plus, there is an out of game reason I prefer the Super-Heavies and that is you don't need a specially grown pilot to operate them like the 9 Ton and under protomechs. You can freely have regular freebirths and even elemental washouts try out for the Super Heavy Protomechs and that gives you a much greater pool of potential pilots to pull from.

It was a GOOD bend.

Now, think you can accomplish a good result within the STANDARD generation rules?
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Sabelkatten

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #7 on: 06 December 2019, 10:02:58 »
A 5/8/5 9-tonner with 42 armor, ERML, and LRM2 is about the best I can do. :-\

Cannonshop

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #8 on: 06 December 2019, 11:06:17 »
A 5/8/5 9-tonner with 42 armor, ERML, and LRM2 is about the best I can do. :-\

try a slightly different route: keep the mass (9 tons) and speed, and keeping the armor within 10%, use several related names or designated variants. (one energy design, one missile, a ballistic maybe, or pulse vs ER) and build a single POINT of different protos going with complimentary loadouts that match as closely as possible in all non-weapon ways.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Ruger

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #9 on: 06 December 2019, 11:11:29 »
I rather like this:


Nightmare ProtoMech
Code: [Select]
Mass: 9 tons
Chassis: 900 kg
Engine: type 75 fusion - 2000 kg
Walk MP: 5
Run MP: 8
Jump MP: 5 - 500 kg
Cockpit: 500 kg
Armor: 32 - 1600 kg
Head: 2/5
Torso: 9/10
Main Gun: 1/3
R/L Arms: 2/3
Legs: 5/8

Weapons and ammo - Location - Mass
Medium Chemical Laser - M - 1000 kg
Ammo(MCL)15 - M - 500 kg
LRM-3 - T - 600 kg
Ammo(LRM)8 - T - 200 kg
Streak SRM-2 - T - 1000 kg
Ammo(Streak)10 - T - 200 kg

I imagine it as a Clan Hell’s Horses upgrade to the Centaur ProtoMech, so you can use the same mini without mods.

Been a while since I designed a ProtoMech, but I think I have it right. I know you said design 5 different designs, but 5 of these make an effective point, I think. However, let me consider variants.

Edit:

Think I may like this variant:

Stats as before except for weapons:

Medium Chemical Laser - M - 1000 kg
Ammo(MCL)12 - M - 400 kg
LRM-3 - T - 600 kg
Ammo(LRM)8 - T - 200 kg
SRM-2 - T - 500 kg
Ammo(SRM)10 - T - 200 kg
Light Machine Gun - RA - 250 kg
Ammo(LMG)10 - RA - 50 kg
Light Machine Gun - LA - 250 kg
Ammo(LMG)10 - LA - 50 kg
 
Ruger
« Last Edit: 06 December 2019, 15:58:45 by Ruger »
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RevenVrake

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Re: heh..heheheh...(Design challenge)
« Reply #10 on: 07 December 2019, 00:01:11 »
It was a GOOD bend.

Now, think you can accomplish a good result within the STANDARD generation rules?

Hmm...let's see...

Man, working with 9 tons can be a pain in the ass...

But...

Code: [Select]
Jackal Heavy Protomech (Standard)
Mass: 9 tons
Power Plant: 81 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets:
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Micro Pulse Laser
     1 ER Medium Laser
Introduction Year: 3070
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 874,234.5 C-bills

Type: Jackal Heavy Protomech
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 9
Battle Value: 371

Equipment                                         Mass (kg)
Internal Structure                                  900
Engine                        81                  2,500
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:                   6                   1,500
Cockpit:                                            500
Armor Factor:                 42                  2,100

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    2         5     
     Torso                   9         16   
     R/L Arm                2/2       4/4   
     Legs                    5         10   
     Main Gun                1         3     

Weapons
and Ammo              Location        Mass
Micro Pulse Laser        T             500
ER Medium Laser          MG           1000

Moving at 6/9 speeds the Jackal exploits the fact that Protomechs don't need to make piloting checks when turning on concrete at speed. It is armed with an ER Medium Laser to hole punch, same as the proven Roc. What the Jackal also has is heavier armor and a Micro Pulse Laser to mulch any infantry found in its path. 

Code: [Select]
Jackal Heavy Protomech (SRM)
Mass: 9 tons
Power Plant: 81 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets:
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Small Pulse Laser
     1 SRM 4
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3070
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 891,674.5 C-bills

Type: Jackal Heavy Protomech
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 9
Battle Value: 300

Equipment                                         Mass (kg)
Internal Structure                                  900
Engine                        81                  2,500
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:                   2                     500
Cockpit:                                            500
Armor Factor:                 42                  2,100

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    2         5     
     Torso                   9         16   
     R/L Arm                2/2       4/4   
     Legs                    5         10   
     Main Gun                1         3     

Weapons
and Ammo              Location        Mass
SRM 4 Ammo (12)          BD            480
SRM 4                    T            1000
Small Pulse Laser        MG           1000

The SRM Variant of the Jackal instead packs a Small Pulse Laser to keep off the Infantry and an SRM-4 to crit-seek.

Mixing these two machines allows for flexibility in loadouts. The SRM Variant actually usually packs 6 rounds of standard ammunition and 6 rounds of Inferno ammunition for burning Battle Armor and Tanks.
« Last Edit: 07 December 2019, 00:05:11 by RevenVrake »