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Author Topic: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?  (Read 1134 times)

Goose

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What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« on: 14 December 2019, 19:41:20 »
If you were in a position to demand art to match quirks, what would Atmospheric Flyer entail? Any old big wing? Not as much streamlining as a SR-71 (or the X-15)?

Is there a design language to this games' aircraft?
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Hptm. Streiger

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #1 on: 15 December 2019, 13:24:04 »
Clearly not like those brick like aero fighters like the angel.
On the other hand with a brutal fusion-air ram your flyer can look like a brick, although it should not fly that fast.

Most ASFs art work doesn't look aerodynamic enough so hyper velocity or passing into the atmosphere under combat condition might be a death sentence.

almost a life time ago (2 years) i started some ASFs for the Leopard project.... don't think I bring it up again:
Stuka

Shilone:

leopard internals
« Last Edit: 16 December 2019, 09:59:41 by Hptm. Streiger »

marauder648

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #2 on: 18 December 2019, 04:40:54 »
O_O As always your CGI designs are superb!
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Hptm. Streiger

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #3 on: 18 December 2019, 05:17:33 »
O_O As always your CGI designs are superb!
Nah, stop it - as said it has been years and I totally not looked into the topic it since then, heck I did not even redo the YellowJacket, yet.

Although I usually spend some time in the concept phase - for example, a plane called Stuka without bent wings is a no-go. I simple wanted to merge some design elements of the Ju87 and Ju187 and some other "Nazi prototypes" - not my fault that they called it Stuka, could have called it Beaufighter - I would have used other stuff

the Shilone - concept is based on a tailless aircraft but the problem might be indeed the transfer from space into atmospher (so it had some kind of telescope wings to move them into the body during re-entry . The LRM20 is supposed to work as kind of bomb-bay instead of a "launcher" - the body should be able for hypersonic speeds.

finally the Leopard concept - it's based on the MWO model, I scaled it accordingly to have 4 MechBays with some room for spare parts, it has 15 single person cabins, each with a kind of shower and zero-g toilet (yes I modeled a Zero-G toilet) some extra space for galley and bridge.

The challenge was the ASFs - I used the wide Chippewa - two Corsairs would not have been an issue. they need to fold wings to fit into the bay - the whole front of the leopard is a vacuum rated bay. The pilots move into the pressurized hangar, then the whole hangar is open to vacuum and the ASFs are pushed out by catapult - before igniting their drives.... you really don't want them to ignite it within your ship....

also, I was thinking about the drives for the leopard - simple because it needs a kind of maneuver drive and of course the transfer drive (the transfer drive - for constant acceleration need to be placed at the "bottom")

ahhh this issue:


another shot: you see the fusion-drive rings of the maneuver drive (and the small exhausts for the transfer drive in the bottom)




OK - thats for now - back to the OP: had some more time to think about it. Some of the conventional fighters are quite well designed. sure the Meteor for example has intakes at the upper side - this cries "hypersonic" speed - but boy the SRM racks below the wing will just rip the fighter into pieces.
The Guradian and Boeing Jump Bomber Raubvogel are delta wings, fine. Planetlifter and Vendetta might work as well. The MechBuster/Seabuster is a cannard fighter and should work as well.

Other look strange but as I started with the "Nazi-prototypes" its seems that every form of aircrat is able to fly as long as you have enough speed.

marauder648

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #4 on: 18 December 2019, 07:01:53 »
What about the various lifting body types we've seen?





With the Kirghiz I would assume the big AC in the nose retracts into it and deploys out when firing or not needing orbital speeds.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #5 on: 23 December 2019, 00:06:47 »
F-90 Stingray probably counts as the best example of being aerodynamic, though I imagine the Lucifer is pretty decent in the air too just looking at it.  Chippewa and Riever both look like they'd have nightmarish pitch control problems...

Cannonshop

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #6 on: 21 January 2020, 00:40:49 »
I've always liked the lines of the SL-15 Slayer (except for that kinda doofy almost-turret on the back)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #7 on: 24 February 2020, 16:59:14 »
I've always liked the lines of the SL-15 Slayer (except for that kinda doofy almost-turret on the back)

That's actually close to reasonable aerodynamics across the subsonic to hypersonic range.
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Demiurge

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #8 on: 06 March 2020, 12:24:53 »
That's actually close to reasonable aerodynamics across the subsonic to hypersonic range.


Agreed.

Aerodynamic lift is a function of airspeed squared (if we ignore some hiccups in the transonic range).  Battletech fighters are fantabulously fast, so they wouldn't need much wing area at all to generate plenty of lift.

In fact, they are so fast that ram compression of the atmosphere and subsequent heating of the structure would be a major concern.  So, I would expect to see small-ish wings, and a generally blunt, rounded shape, since that shape handles ram compression heating better.  In other words, I would expect them to look vaguely like the space shuttle, as that operates in a broadly comparable regime.

Empyrus

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #9 on: 10 March 2020, 21:50:29 »
In fact, they are so fast that ram compression of the atmosphere and subsequent heating of the structure would be a major concern. 
BT has magic armor, can't be a big issue lol
Maybe their skin is the same material as used on WarShip engine nozzles, since those don't seem to be magnetic systems one would expect from a torch ship...
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Demiurge

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #10 on: 12 March 2020, 18:33:41 »
BT has magic armor, can't be a big issue lol
Maybe their skin is the same material as used on WarShip engine nozzles, since those don't seem to be magnetic systems one would expect from a torch ship...


Au contraire, heat from plasma weapons, flamers and inferno gel goes straight through that magic armor.  So while it is impossibly strong, it is not impossibly insulative.

Empyrus

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #11 on: 13 March 2020, 21:52:59 »
Must be selective armor. Few million kelvin? Super insulation. Few thousand at most? Sure, go ahead.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #12 on: 24 March 2020, 19:56:22 »
Must be selective armor. Few million kelvin? Super insulation. Few thousand at most? Sure, go ahead.

Fusion rockets use magnetic confinement nozzles, not material.
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Daryk

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #13 on: 24 March 2020, 19:58:49 »
Magnetism FTW!  :D

Empyrus

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #14 on: 25 March 2020, 17:56:29 »
Fusion rockets use magnetic confinement nozzles, not material.
My point was, BT rocket nozzles don't look like they'd be magnetic confinement nozzles. They're far too solid looking. Not to mention seemingly too small (larger size would be easier to keep cool).
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Hptm. Streiger

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #15 on: 26 March 2020, 01:57:37 »
Pure Fusion is never enough to get even close to the trust ratings that could be a achieved.
So they use reaction mass - water? Ideal would be higher dense fuel to save volume.
In atmosphere the air becomes the reaction mass.

I could try to make a "correct" asf, but its low priority....

Daryk

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #16 on: 26 March 2020, 03:43:01 »
If I remember right, just dumping some unfused hydrogen as reaction mass will work.

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #17 on: 26 March 2020, 05:03:59 »
If I remember right, just dumping some unfused hydrogen as reaction mass will work.

problem is the mass - a kilogram any matter put into the exhaust will - ok I'm not so familiar with rocket science, and if i interpret my calculation done some years ago, correctly, a single kg of mass per second into the exhaust of a Stingray -Epstein Class... will accelerate the ASF with 220m/s² - volume is irrelevant, the less the better


Daryk

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Re: What would Atmo Flyer really look like?
« Reply #18 on: 26 March 2020, 17:01:25 »
Fighters are possible with dumping mass at stated fuel consumption rates.  It's strategic mode that's off the charts.