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Author Topic: Mad Cat C  (Read 1163 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #30 on: 14 February 2020, 12:12:58 »
Yeah, the C has range advantage over every other Mad Cat config so all of them will try to close as quickly as possible, meaning that generally you're not going to get more than a round or two at your optimal range bands.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #31 on: 14 February 2020, 12:14:26 »
Unless you have a major speed advantage, you don't get to choose.
And we're comparing timberwolves.

You run forward 8, I back up 5 . . . you gain 3 hexes a turn unless you can pin me against some terrain.  After 3 turns of firing both ERPPCs you are only going to gain 1 hex, though that is the C's best turn to oblique for a new angle.  But that means they are now around 15 hexes, which is what I would be aiming at from the beginning of the engagement since it would be the ideal for that turn- cERLL's at medium range, the cERPPCs at long, and the D has at best a +2 move mod.  I also do not fight in 2x2 phone booths . . . not saying you can never bring the C into short range for the ERPPCs, but I am going to get handful of turns with more chances to hit for more potential damage (10+10+5+15 or 10+15+15+5).

We have chased a bit of a rabbit there, but . . .

I prefer the Prime & C in the Invasion era b/c I prefer the range options they give me over other configs- especially since as bracket firing platforms I can consistently fire up the main guns without having to slow down.  For me the A is usually unlucky- the SSRM ammo always gets TAC'd- and along with the D (and Linebacker D), it bugs me with the fanboi-ism.  Fought against people who swore by both of them over the years on the servers and put them both down with ranged fighting.  So my personal top 3 Timber Wolves would be the Prime, E and C- but I believe the cERLL is the best 'gun' in the game and prefer it over the cERPPC or cLPL.
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Paul

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #32 on: 14 February 2020, 12:19:02 »
You run forward 8, I back up 5 . . . you gain 3 hexes a turn unless you can pin me against some terrain. 

I don't play on pool tables, so that situation never occurs. You'll have to change angle because of hills or trees or other terrain. Or slow down because of the same.
And you're unlikely to have LOS unless you climb a hill and stay there.


Hellraiser

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #33 on: 14 February 2020, 15:42:17 »
I agree that you can't stay at range forever.  But remember Terrain works both ways.

I also think I'd STILL take the C over the D.

Sorry, heat issues on that D are going to be a problem.

And then Missiles are the Back up weapons so the AMS removes some of those.


The A is my favorite because, well, HEAT.

After that though, the Prime & C are "close" to interchangeable in their role.

The lower BV & nicer heat curve of the C both make me choose it over Prime in anything but a close range fight, & in a Mountain/Forest/City, I'd take A or S anyway.

B has no use for me & D is, IMO, only useful in a double blind match where getting into my back arc can happen by surprise.

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Paul

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #34 on: 14 February 2020, 15:46:26 »
I agree that you can't stay at range forever.  But remember Terrain works both ways.

Generally speaking, almost exclusively to the detriment to the ranged unit.


Quote
I also think I'd STILL take the C over the D.

I think you can make that argument, but that still leaves the Prime, A and S as superior in dueling.


Hellraiser

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #35 on: 14 February 2020, 15:55:07 »
I'm not convinced the Prime is that much better in a duel.

The C will put out more firepower over all due to better heat management.

The C will shoot down some of the Primes ranged fire w/ AMS.

The Prime does have advantage in being able to bring 2 extra Medium lasers into play at 15/12 hexes, but, the extremely low heat output of the AC means its adding in a couple taps every turn too for next to nothing in heat.

Prime Better?   Maybe.    Lots Better?  No.


As a star mate I'd take the C for sure since lower BV will allow me to get an edge with one of my other mechs.
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Paul

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #36 on: 14 February 2020, 16:42:54 »
The C will put out more firepower over all due to better heat management.

No.
Prime: 2 erll, 2LRM20 + run = 38, drop 34. Then either 1 erLL gets dropped to be heat neutral, or 1 LRM20 gets dropped to reduce heat by 2 for 2 turns:
20 + 24 damage, followed by 34 damage, alternating. 39 average.

The C: 2 erLL + 2 LRM15 + uAC5 at double + AMS + run = 39 heat, so 9 over. Pretty undesirable in my book to take those penalties when your enemy doesn't have to.
But 24 + 18 + 7 damage for the uAC5 on average = 49. Then 3 turns of running 39 damage while you cool down. Across 4 turns, it's 41.5 average, but 1 turn with a move and a to-hit penalty. Not sure that's a wash for just 3 extra damage, average.

Dropping the erLL allows you to push 39 damage each turn without ever having heat issues, so the same as a Prime.

Once you're close, the damage potential for the Prime is 1 erLL, 2 erML, 1 MPL, 1 LRM20: 43 damage for 34 heat.
The B can go to 1 erLL, 1 erML, 2 LRM15s, 1 uAC5: 42 damage for 31 heat.


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The C will shoot down some of the Primes ranged fire w/ AMS.

Giving it a slight edge, yes. It's just AMS.
But the Prime's ammo doesn't last long anyway, so at some point the math is energy only.


Quote
Prime Better?   Maybe.    Lots Better?  No.

We agree.


Quote
As a star mate I'd take the C for sure since lower BV will allow me to get an edge with one of my other mechs.

That's a meta argument. Then universe doesn't deploy stuff with BV.


Hellraiser

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #37 on: 14 February 2020, 17:03:51 »
The C: 2 erLL + 2 LRM15 + uAC5 at double + AMS + run = 39 heat, so 9 over. Pretty undesirable in my book to take those penalties when your enemy doesn't have to.
Ah, and this is what I get for going from memory.
For some reason I swore it had more DHS than the Prime.
When doing the math in my head I thought it actually had 18 DHS for 36 vent or a standing AS of the Long Range guns for neutral heat.

If its only the stock 15 DHS in the engine then yeah, the Prime clearly has the edge in most cases.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Paul

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Re: Mad Cat C
« Reply #38 on: 14 February 2020, 17:13:35 »
When doing the math in my head I thought it actually had 18 DHS for 36 vent or a standing AS of the Long Range guns for neutral heat.

Ah! Yeah, if it could do that, you would be right, and it would be a superior Mech with a convincing margin. Since it's got substantially less throw weight after the ammo is gone, and since those 2 ERLL are in the right arm, I would expect to win pretty frequently with a Prime, unless the damage distribution went wonky.

 

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