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Author Topic: Recon Camera  (Read 1328 times)

Col Toda

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Recon Camera
« on: 09 January 2020, 10:16:25 »
Available  all Eras but almost never seen on canon units . I put it on a custom  pegasus scout . How often you seen it used???

Insaniac99

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #1 on: 09 January 2020, 15:23:05 »
One-off missions? never. 

A regular ongoing campaign?  All the time.

It's only available on the Boomerang Spotter Plane, the Lexan Surveilance VTOL, and the SeaBuster Strike Fighter, but it is an essential part of battle information for any mercenary force IMO.  Each of those units are still only close to 2 million C-Bills, with the cheapest -- the Boomerang Spotter Plane -- being less than 85,000 c-bills.

  If the Boomerang saves you only a ton of armor by not being surprise attacked only once in its entire lifetime before being shot down, it's almost paid for itself right then and there.

Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #2 on: 09 January 2020, 19:19:21 »
I put it on custom designs all the time.  A half-ton, 3025-era TAG?  Color me sold!  :thumbsup:

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #3 on: 10 January 2020, 01:27:45 »
  In campaign, we use the vehicle design rules to make UAVs. There is no reason to keep BT in the 1980s.

pheonixstorm

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #4 on: 10 January 2020, 08:00:59 »
I had a nice 35 ton scout unit that uses them, even though I have it fluffed as a late SLDF Royal limited run unit. Worked really really well under the old recon camera rules. Don't know about the new revised TAG like rules... just don't like that change one bit... :ticked: :bang: :crash:

Ursus Maior

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #5 on: 10 January 2020, 09:48:57 »
If the Boomerang saves you only a ton of armor by not being surprise attacked only once in its entire lifetime before being shot down, it's almost paid for itself right then and there.
I bought a couple for my 3rd Crucis Lancers Task Force in the 3040 era. We still count Boomerang as conventional fighters (because that's what the TRO and RS say it is and always was) and following that ruling, the thing is a beast (okay a puppy beast). Put a drop tank under it and it has great range (SO rules for fuel consumption, of course) and it can even drop a single bomb or attack with a Rocket Pod.
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RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #6 on: 10 January 2020, 14:03:23 »
I like Recon Cameras. They're good to mount externally on aircraft to make them spotters. I also use them on faster units to make them better spotters and as replacements for TAG. Sometimes even in addition to TAG.




I bought a couple for my 3rd Crucis Lancers Task Force in the 3040 era. We still count Boomerang as conventional fighters (because that's what the TRO and RS say it is and always was) and following that ruling, the thing is a beast (okay a puppy beast). Put a drop tank under it and it has great range (SO rules for fuel consumption, of course) and it can even drop a single bomb or attack with a Rocket Pod.

What version of the Boomerang are you using? The one in TRO:3039 doesn't have hard points. It's built using support vehicle rules and doesn't have any mounted.


Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #7 on: 10 January 2020, 18:03:55 »
Phoenixstorm: What old rules are you talking about, exactly?  ???

Ursus Maior

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #8 on: 12 January 2020, 10:49:38 »
What version of the Boomerang are you using? The one in TRO:3039 doesn't have hard points. It's built using support vehicle rules and doesn't have any mounted.
As mentioned, we still count them as being a Conventional Fighter, since that's the chapter its printed under in TRO and RS 3039 and I started playing BT before Support Vehicles were a thing.
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RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #9 on: 12 January 2020, 14:55:45 »
As mentioned, we still count them as being a Conventional Fighter, since that's the chapter its printed under in TRO and RS 3039 and I started playing BT before Support Vehicles were a thing.

Ah Ok. Missed that. Thanks. :)

Me too although I never quite figured out how they figured the Cruise/Flank Speed in TRO:3025.

Ursus Maior

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #10 on: 13 January 2020, 05:57:30 »
Probably just ruled it. The original TRO 3025 doesn't seem to have had a fully fledged out Aerospace rule set as foundation. Just my guess, though. :)
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RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #11 on: 13 January 2020, 07:25:20 »
TRO:3025 Aerospace units used Aerospace 1. So that's not the problem. The Boomerang seems to be based on ground vehicle rules. Besides Cruise/Flank Speeds, there's the armor locations: Front, Rear, Sides, Turret, and it has an internal structure. I want to say they used the VTOL construction rules but that doesn't work because of the lift factor. I wonder if they wanted propeller aircraft treated differently from Jet and Aerospace Fighters but left the rules out.


pheonixstorm

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #12 on: 24 January 2020, 00:30:15 »
Phoenixstorm: What old rules are you talking about, exactly?  ???

The one that doesn't treat recon cameras as a poor mans TAG. Meaning you have to roll the dice when using RC the same way you do with TAG.

Quote from: TO p338 errata 3.03
This ruling has changed from previous errata versions.

An aerospace unit with a Recon Camera that is between Altitudes 5 and 10 on the Low Altitude map gains the ability to either spot for LRM indirect fire or artillery, or attempt to reveal hidden units. In either case, it may not make any other attacks while attempting to do so. For an aerospace unit to spot, the base to-hit  number  to  designate  a  target  is  the  pilot’s  Gunnery  Skill  +2.  The  target  must be on the ground mapsheet that corresponds to the camera unit’s atmospheric hex.If  the  aerospace  unit  is  attempting  to  reveal  hidden  units  (see  p.  259,  TW),  during  the  Movement  Phase  of  any  turn  where the camera unit passes over a ground mapsheet that corresponds to its atmospheric hex and contains a hidden unit hostile  to  its  force,  the  hidden  unit  may  be  revealed.  The  hidden  unit’ s  controlling  player  must  roll  2D6  for  each  such  hidden unit. The target number is 9, plus any applicable terrain modifiers; for submerged units, apply a +1 terrain modifier per  depth  past  1.  Rolling  equal  to  or  higher  than  the  target  number  immediately  reveals  that  hidden  unit  to  the  camera  unit.

RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #13 on: 24 January 2020, 04:18:54 »
The one that doesn't treat recon cameras as a poor mans TAG. Meaning you have to roll the dice when using RC the same way you do with TAG.

That rule applies to Aerospace units.

Quote
This ruling has changed from previous errata versions.

An aerospace unit with a Recon Camera that is between Altitudes 5 and 10 on the Low Altitude map gains the ability to either spot for LRM indirect fire or artillery, or attempt to reveal hidden units. In either case, it may not make any other attacks while attempting to do so. For an aerospace unit to spot, the base to-hit  number  to  designate  a  target  is  the  pilot’s  Gunnery  Skill  +2.  The  target  must be on the ground mapsheet that corresponds to the camera unit’s atmospheric hex. If  the  aerospace  unit is  attempting  to  reveal  hidden  units  (see  p.  259,  TW),  during  the  Movement  Phase  of  any  turn  where the camera unit passes over a ground mapsheet that corresponds to its atmospheric hex and contains a hidden unit hostile  to  its  force,  the  hidden  unit  may  be  revealed.  The  hidden  unit’ s  controlling  player  must  roll  2D6  for  each  such  hidden unit. The target number is 9, plus any applicable terrain modifiers; for submerged units, apply a +1 terrain modifier per  depth  past  1.  Rolling  equal  to  or  higher  than  the  target  number  immediately  reveals  that  hidden  unit  to  the  camera  unit.

I think its because even if you see it you still have to get the coordinates right.

Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #14 on: 24 January 2020, 06:08:03 »
What RifleMech said...

pheonixstorm

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #15 on: 24 January 2020, 09:10:50 »
Forgot a section

Quote
For  ground  units,  a  Recon  Camera  instead  allows  the  unit  to  act  as  a  spotter  for  LRM  indirect  fire  (see  p.  111,  TW) against  a  single  target  per  turn  and  still  make  a  weapon  attack  or  spot  for  artillery  (at  normal  visual  ranges)  with  no  additional  to-hit  penalty.  To  spot  for  LRM  indirect  fire,  the  unit must  ‘hit’  the  target  using  the  same  rules  and  ranges  as  TAG as appropriate for that unit.

Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #16 on: 24 January 2020, 18:26:59 »
Right, those are the TAG-like rules I thought you were talking about...

RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #17 on: 25 January 2020, 03:26:07 »
Yeah they are TAG like but you still have to send the right coordinates.

Col Toda

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #18 on: 12 February 2020, 10:56:34 »
Just started a 3036 campaign  . Recon camera and 2 medium lasers on my Cicada  Recon lance units . Will know how well it works in 2 weeks . Corporate  unit rotates out units to get CASE factory refits . Something gets reintroduced  getting it out there is important

grimlock1

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #19 on: 12 February 2020, 11:44:02 »
That rule applies to Aerospace units.

I think its because even if you see it you still have to get the coordinates right.
The roll for LRM spotting from the air is only gunnery+2?  That doesn't sound bad at all. 
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Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #20 on: 12 February 2020, 18:09:18 »
Just started a 3036 campaign  . Recon camera and 2 medium lasers on my Cicada  Recon lance units . Will know how well it works in 2 weeks . Corporate  unit rotates out units to get CASE factory refits . Something gets reintroduced  getting it out there is important
Cool... I'll certainly be looking for updates on how it's working out for you.

pat_hdx

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #21 on: 12 February 2020, 19:11:20 »
Those things give me pause. As currently written they seem a bit overpowered no? I haven't reviewed the last errata, but you could mount one on a mast mount on a VTOL, and have a +1 to hit on your indirect LRMs using standard ammo in 3025 play right?  :o I love the idea, but they would seem to need a bit of a Nerf.

Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #22 on: 12 February 2020, 19:13:10 »
No nerf required... a to hit roll is involved already.

pat_hdx

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #23 on: 12 February 2020, 19:58:56 »
Doesn't it make Semi-Guided LRMs obsolete before they even hit the field? Why develop them if you could get a similar effect with regular (cheaper) LRM ammo using much simpler tech than involved in the development of a TAG unit?

Daryk

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #24 on: 12 February 2020, 20:18:37 »
Competing technologies are developed all the time... and Recon Cameras never went out of production, so there's plenty of Succession War goodness that could happen before Semi-Guided come around.

Firesprocket

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #25 on: 13 February 2020, 01:58:44 »
And SG LRMs remove the TMM of the target if TAG is successful.  There is a reason there is BV cost for each ton of SG ammo, it's a definitive upgrade.

Col Toda

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #26 on: 14 February 2020, 08:34:09 »
Anyone see recon cameras  installed on buildings  ?

Anyone see recon cameras  put on an Airship ?

I could see either . But at traffic circles  or intersections  for civil defense  does make sense .

RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #27 on: 14 February 2020, 10:55:57 »
Yes and Yes. If just used to monitor traffic I think a regular vid camera would work for that.

I think it's a shame that the range for ground units is so limited. I would think under double blind rules the range would be a lot longer. Like it'd add so many hexes to the range a unit can see.

Weirdo

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #28 on: 14 February 2020, 12:24:46 »
Why would you put recon cameras in buildings? You gain no benefit, because if the building has a camera, the crew can spot just as well as the camera can.

There are multiple canon airships with recon cameras.
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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #29 on: 14 February 2020, 23:16:25 »
  One of my characters was dropped onto a Clan-occupied world and planted recon cameras in traffic lights, signs, everywhere enemy units would travel. Sometimes you can't just place them in plain sight.
Eventually gaining access to Clan facilities as a janitor, it was obvious how lax they were about security, eventually every office was bugged, documents copied, computers hacked...because the old guy pushing a mop and emptying their trash cans was never even noticed.

Col Toda

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #30 on: 18 February 2020, 07:55:26 »
You put Recon Cameras on buildings  with Drone equipment  controlled  with the Drone Control equipment  in the same civil defense bunker as the communication equipment  that monitors the remote sensor network  .  You can even hard wire it with fiberoptic cables so ECM does not screw with it . Not as good as Stealth  battle armor spotting  but less life loss and more time consuming to uproot and destroy

It also has the advantage  of being in place not caught going from one building to the next . I like saying the round a corner  and get peppered  by indirect fire  from trailers  3 streets over .
« Last Edit: 18 February 2020, 08:13:43 by Col Toda »

RifleMech

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Re: Recon Camera
« Reply #31 on: 18 February 2020, 18:47:04 »
 >:D

 

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