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Author Topic: Ghost Bear Tactics  (Read 556 times)

Precentor Scorpio

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Ghost Bear Tactics
« on: 19 January 2020, 12:00:39 »
For the Ghost Bear players out there, how do you organize your cluster(s) or Trinaries and fight using what you consider Ghost Bear tactics?  If it matters, I would prefer the 3050 - 3075 time frame.  Inner Sphere opponents. 

Would this make sense for the Ghost Bears?  Five Fire Moths or other Omni-mechs assigned to an elemental trinary.  (Either for this mission or permanently assigned, this assignment doesn't matter.) 
The five Fire Moths carry a star of elementals into the enemy formation and drop off these elementals within five hexes of the enemy lets say. 
The Fire Moths withdraw to pick up the next star, maybe the Fire Moths are walking backwards providing mech support to the first elemental star while the Fire Moths continue to pick up the next star. 
The Fire Moths pick up the next star and then carry this second star into the battle.  Any surviving Fire Moths continue to do this until all of the elementals have been deployed.

Could I use this tactic?   Have a traditional mech binary engage the Inner Sphere forces for two or three rounds, and once the forces are approximately fifteen hexes away from each other, have a star of Fire Moths just run onto the battlefield and end their original movement approximately twenty-five hexes from the enemy.  On the next turn activate masc, run nineteen hexes and drop off the elementals.  Once the elementals have been dropped off, on the following turn, the Fire Moths return to pick up the next star of elementals as the other two stars of elementals are jumping towards battle.

Yes, my game, my rules, etc etc.  But are these tactics/ideas that the Ghost Bears would use?  Or what other tactics are available that say, this is how the Ghost Bears fight.

Thank you


AlphaMirage

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #1 on: 20 January 2020, 07:51:55 »
Why limit yourself to just Fire Moths, Vipers, Mist Lynx, and other fast omnis are solid Elemental party wagons and effective combatants to have in a Mech Star.

As for Ghost Bears why would they use any tactic other than the standard ones used by the other clans?

Elementals are close support units. They protect their mech partners from flankers and backstabbers. If possible they might also maneuver into their opponent's flank or rear in constricting terrain because all but the slowest mechs can outrun them in the open.

I could see fast Omnimechs running past the enemy and dropping the Elementals off behind.  That would restrict retreat vectors and use the SRM packs to their fullest crit seeking potential.  However, I think running a shuttle race would take too long.  By the time (say three rounds) they deploy the second star carried by the other mechs the Clan forces should have blazed through the IS ones; especially if they were firing at long range before the fast runners entered the fray.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #2 on: 20 January 2020, 11:04:22 »

Fire Moths are the fastest but also the most thinly armored.  I’d also look at Vipers (another Bear design), Ice Ferrets (a Wolf design that appears on the General Clan MUL lists), and maybe even a Mongrel (a Shark design that presumably the Bears can buy after 3052/Tukayyid even if it doesn’t show up on their MUL lists).  These are all thickly armored, low-end medium designs with above-average speed (7/11+) and jumps jets in the case of the Viper and Mongrel.  Unlike Fire Moths, these taxis can stay in the fight with their battle armor after dropping them off.

Like real-life APCs and IFVs, omnimech battle armor taxis do not usually make repeat trips for multiple units of infantry.  If each Elemental star does not have its own set of rides, then your first star of Elementals will be picked off without support while the taxis spend the next two turns returning and delivering the next star of Elementals.  You want to be able to deliver your entire force (or the bulk of it) at once as the situation requires.  Otherwise, your taxis are just a conveyor belt delivering a little bit of your force at a time to get destroyed piecemeal by the opposition’s full firepower.

Instead of another two stars of Elementals, I’d look at a star of some heavier, slower, but longer-ranged designs.  The Mad Dog is the classic Bear fire support omnimech.  But you could also mix in Executioners (also a Bear design), Timber Wolves (appears in the art with Bear insignia all the time), Stormcrows (design from the Bears’ allies in the Snow Ravens), and Black Hawks (old design from the Bears’ rivals in the Hell’s Horses)

Might look something like this:

Binary Supernova

Battle Star
Timber Wolf (or Executioner)
Mad Dog
Mad Dog
Mad Dog
Stormcrow (or Black Hawk)

Striker Nova
Mongrel
Elemental Point
Viper
Elemental Point
Viper
Elemental Point
Viper
Elemental Point
Ice Ferret
Elemental Point

If you want a full supernova trinary, then add another star or nova, as you see fit.

This is a balanced, flexible, mobile, survivable, hard-hitting Clan binary.  It can do lots of things, but usually the Striker Nova will be in front, fixing opponents with Elementals and shorter-ranged weapons while the Battle Star provides heavier and longer-ranged firepower from further back.  Other tactics include using the Battle Star’s thicker armor to fix the enemy while the Striker Nova hits from the flanks.  Or using a closely grouped Battle Star to punch a hole in the enemy line for Striker Nova to exploit.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 21 January 2020, 12:58:33 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
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"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
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dgorsman

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #3 on: 20 January 2020, 12:00:12 »
If this is close to the start of the Invasion period, it's guaranteed a star of Fire Moths is the fastest thing on the field.  That means those Elementals are going to be first on the field ahead of anyone.  They can be deployed on the flanks to force the enemy away from strong points, hidden to spring a trap on the lead elements or headhunt commanders, or let the Mechs flow through and deal with the conventional forces.  They could sweep the area for enemy forward air controllers, artillery direction teams, scouts, and minefields as well.
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massey

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #4 on: 20 January 2020, 12:42:23 »
I see the Dasher/Elemental combo as something that targets support units rather than front line forces.  Not that they can't target front line forces, but it's more damaging to go after the guys in the back.  It's a similar tactic to the Smoke Jaguars' headhunter stars.

Take a Star of Dashers with Elementals, and run them deep behind enemy lines.  Go after supply depots, fuel trucks, ammo storage facilities, repair stations, etc.  It isn't exactly something you'd want to play on the tabletop, but that's the sort of thing they should be doing off-camera.  Likewise you'd go after artillery the same way, or vehicle units.

On a whim the other day, I played a megamek game vs the bot.  I took a Dasher Prime, and went against a company of wheeled APCs (the 10 ton version with an SRM-2).  I don't think I even got hit once.  I just danced around them and slaughtered them at my leisure.  And that's the important part of that mech -- with a Dasher, you choose who you encounter.  You can attack the weakest part of your opponent's force, so that's what you should do.  You can delivery Elementals to a location where your opponent has nothing that can handle Elementals.

On the tabletop, it helps to play on really big maps.  Lack of room to maneuver kills a Dasher faster than a Gauss Rifle (metaphorically speaking).  I wouldn't drop the Elementals off 5 hexes away.  They can't do anything the turn you disembark them, so they're sitting ducks.  Instead I like to drop them off behind a hill or something, where your opponent can't get immediate LOS to them.  Now you've got a nasty little slow-moving obstacle that forces your opponent into bad moves.  The mechs are still the primary threat, but now you've also got an Initiative sink that helps your Dashers move as late as possible.

jimdigris

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #5 on: 20 January 2020, 14:31:24 »
I think that it is unlikely that the Dasher pilot would be willing to run extra points of elementals back and forth because the time that is spent hauling elementals is time that the mechwarrior is not earning glory defeating enemy mechwarriors.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #6 on: 20 January 2020, 14:51:26 »
I prefer to run full Supernova Trinaries with 15 Omni’s and 75x Elementals but that’s just me. Currently I have a force listed in the ‘non-canon units’ section of the board which shows my current Ghost Bear force of minis arranged. It’s not a good arrangement because I have too few for two Clusters and too many for one Cluster.

As much as I love the Fire Moth I do agree from a game perspective that the Viper is better as a Battle Taxi. In my various games I haven’t picked up any dismounted Elementals not have I run back for more. Once I’ve dropped them off I tend to use those light units as backstabbers and harassers while my Elementals swarm things.

Now on heavier Omni’s (like Timber Wolves and other fast 5/8 or 6/9 movers) I try and keep both points together to harass a singular target. With six odd targets against one it’s a nice way to get a bit extra firepower in against the enemy.

But a final bit of advice: Light Mechs gotta go fast! Use those TMM’s for all they are worth. Speed is your only armor on a Fire Moth.... well that and those Elementals you’re carrying :)

Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #7 on: 21 January 2020, 09:11:21 »
Thank you for your comments. I agree supernovas would be the way to go, but I thought I saw some elemental trinaries with one assigned mech star.  (The unit had four stars).

I will try the idea of depositing some elementals behind the enemy to prevent an escape.  That could be a nice objective.  Something different.  Maybe run a supernova binary off the battlefield so they can seize a bridge off the game board.


Quote
As for Ghost Bears why would they use any tactic other than the standard ones used by the other clans?

Each clan has fluff.  Some individuals believe the Clans should only fight according to Zellbrigen no matter what and the Inner Sphere can concentrate fire with no reprisal.  I don't believe the Clans are stupid but I do try to use the fluff of each clan to prevent the Clans from acting as the Inner Sphere and shooting at whatever opportunity appears.

Wolves may fight using Inner Sphere tactics to include artillery and minefields.  (The Wolves used vibramines under Ulric Kerensky)
Falcons may shoot at their assigned target and anyone else who has shot at them. (Devlin Hazen was working on flexible tactics so this is what I think he devised for my games)
Diamond Sharks may call in air support
Steel Vipers may switch targets with no loss of honor as a variation of the coil tactic.  (For each turn, I still try to have to more than two Viper mechs shoot at an Inner Sphere mech.)
Ghost Bears use lots of elementals.  Hence this question.  So thank you for your comments.
In all cases, elementals may shoot at any target unless an honor duel has been issued and accepted.














Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #8 on: 21 January 2020, 12:55:27 »
Thank you for your comments. I agree supernovas would be the way to go, but I thought I saw some elemental trinaries with one assigned mech star.  (The unit had four stars).

Yes, the phone book at the back of the Jade Falcon Sourcebook had some trinaries consisting of a light omnimech/elemental nova and two elemental stars.  (And they’ve probably showed up elsewhere.)  Doesn’t make sense, especially for offensive, frontline, clusters, which some of those were.

I put it down to the “newness” of the Clans at that time.  I don’t think the author of those units understood the implications of that formation with respect to mechanized battle armor, didn’t have much experience playing with mechanized battle armor at that point, or just didn’t understand the mechanized battle armor rules at all.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

marauder648

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #9 on: 22 January 2020, 04:39:20 »
Isn't it basically boiled down to

1 - Can we use assault mech's to deal with the problem?
2 - Elementals. All of them.

They have a general preference for large fast Mechs and whilst not up there with the scream and leap of the Smoke Jags, the Bears are direct on the attack.
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Colt Ward

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #10 on: 22 January 2020, 11:56:51 »
Yes, the phone book at the back of the Jade Falcon Sourcebook had some trinaries consisting of a light omnimech/elemental nova and two elemental stars.  (And they’ve probably showed up elsewhere.)  Doesn’t make sense, especially for offensive, frontline, clusters, which some of those were.

I put it down to the “newness” of the Clans at that time.  I don’t think the author of those units understood the implications of that formation with respect to mechanized battle armor, didn’t have much experience playing with mechanized battle armor at that point, or just didn’t understand the mechanized battle armor rules at all.

Actually, as was explained the Clans had APCs for the rest of the Elementals but they were just taxis . . . even when they were the very capable Svantovits.  Then again, they could have also been VTOLs or even Small Craft to deliver the Elementals.
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #11 on: 22 January 2020, 12:32:58 »
There may also be different tactics per Galaxy; Omega was formed to fight using IS tactics for example.
Another fun Bear tactic is to use Kirghiz C Omni Fighters to air drop Elementals.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #12 on: 22 January 2020, 14:36:43 »
Actually, as was explained the Clans had APCs for the rest of the Elementals but they were just taxis . . . even when they were the very capable Svantovits.  Then again, they could have also been VTOLs or even Small Craft to deliver the Elementals.

Sure, that’s an acceptable retcon explanation.  But I doubt the authors of the JFSB (some of which from Adventure Architects I gamed with in Boston around that time) had that in mind.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."


Colt Ward

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #14 on: 22 January 2020, 23:23:45 »
The Tyr is also a fantastic vehicle for Ghost Bear forces.

But not available during the Invasion- so Svantovits, Anhurs, any SLDF left overs, and bog standard heavy APCs- even captured ones.
Colt Ward

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Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #15 on: 23 January 2020, 11:39:51 »
These additional solutions for deploying the elementals are very helpful.
 Thank you  Additional posts are always welcome.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Ghost Bear Tactics
« Reply #16 on: 24 January 2020, 05:22:19 »
But not available during the Invasion- so Svantovits, Anhurs, any SLDF left overs, and bog standard heavy APCs- even captured ones.

The first post did say 3050-3075.

 

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