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Author Topic: Unit types least used by the Clans  (Read 936 times)

RifleMech

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Unit types least used by the Clans
« on: 28 January 2020, 07:57:19 »
I've been wondering which units are least likely used by the Clans. I'm more concerned with combat units but civilian too. So far this is what I've come up with.

Superheavy Mechs
So far as we know the Clans don't use Superheavy Mechs of any kind. They're pretty new and exclusive so far so they're not likely to have any. Baring Home World developments. They also require a crew which would also limit their use by the Clans. That and not having bays to travel in and deploy from.

Tripod Mechs
Like Superheavies as far as we know the Clans don't use Tripods. This could just be a case of we haven't seen them yet. However, they're also use a crew so they're not something the Clans would normally use.  That said, I could see the Hell's Horses using some for training purposes or in Solhama units. I can also see some being used by civilians.

Industrial Mechs
Industrial Mechs of all types seem pretty limited in use by the Clans. Most Clans don't seem that interested in equipping their civilian casts. I'm not going to say that new Industrial Mechs haven't been built but I think most in use are Star League survivors. I also feel like rather than build a line for industrial mechs that the Clans just re purposed old worn out BattleMechs into IndustrialMechs. That'd be even easier with their retired OMNIs. This of course depends on the Clan. I can't see the Smoke Jaguars doing this. I also think any weapons would be removed. Unless used for demolitions and mining. So no Militia Mechs. I can see a resurrected Society using them though.

LAMs
I know they're not used by the Clans now. I do think that they saw some limited use by some Clans earlier in Clan history though because of Wolf's Dragoons. There wasn't enough time to train LAM pilots from scratch in the time the Dragoons were formed, trained, and deployed. Plus some of the LAM pilots were from Clan Goliath Scorpion. They would have needed to be trained before the Dragoons were formed. It's also possible that the Dragoons were largest use of LAMs that the Clans had seen in ages. LAMs don't seem to be used again by the Clans until the Jade Falcons experimented with them mid 3050s. I want to think they were re-purposed for non-military use except the Jade Falcon scientists were having to design LAMs from scratch. That tells me that LAMs pretty much disappeared from Clan space a generation or two before. Probably on a Dragoon supply run?

Quad-Vees
So far it's just the Horses using them. I hope they spread.

Airships
I can see civilians using them but not so much the Clans military.

Rail trains.
Same as above.

Satellites
Automated: definitely, especially for communications and weather.
Manned: Training, punishment, or scientific studies maybe, otherwise no.

Space Stations
Yes. They're obviously used to maintain the Clans space fleets. Combat Space Stations though I think would be SLDF survivors.

Support Vehicle Chassis (Wheeled, Tracked, WiGE, Naval, VTOL, Fixed Wing)
Civilian yes. Military, I wanted to say no but the Clans do use some aircraft and   wet navy ships. And then there's the small vehicles used by infantry. So I'd say they're limited. Mostly to small or to large units and mostly naval and fixed wing.)

Trailers
Civilians, yes, Military transport only. Having armed trailers doesn't feel like something the Clans would do.

Superheavy Combat Vehicles
I'm going to guess no. It's possible for defensive uses but given the Clans are more focused on Mechs and transport and deployment of super heavies is more difficult I'm still leaning to no.

Mobile Structures.
I'm going to say if any are used they're SLDF in Exile survivors.


Any thoughts?

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #1 on: 28 January 2020, 12:24:11 »
Clans do not use superheavy and LAM at all, and are prohibited as well.

After saw the Amaris' Folly, they(or at least their forefathers) already knew that superheavy is no more than a fancy idea. And it was true unless there are some other solutions to actually make it.

LAMs are at least playable in Clans unlike superheavy mechs, however, for some clans are actually made their own experiment LAMs.

I don't think that Clans have the concept for Tripods. It was abandoned for centuries, and both Clans and Inner Sphere are not need for it. But at least they didn't ban it, so someone can think about this.

Airships are not eligible for the military vessel(apart for unmanned and remote-controlled watcher).

Supports... well, military support vehicles may exist. They will need some ammo-carriers or something similar.

Rails are unlikely to be an worthwhile military asset(other than local transport or occasionally naval coast defense gun carrier), so pass.

Superheavy combat vehicles... well, Wolf in exile have Gulltoppr.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #2 on: 28 January 2020, 13:26:47 »

There are no Clan WiGE combat vehicles in the canon to date, AFAIK.
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #3 on: 28 January 2020, 14:14:37 »
There are no Clan WiGE combat vehicles in the canon to date, AFAIK.

They do have some WiGE ProtoMechs....
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #4 on: 28 January 2020, 16:12:10 »
They do have some WiGE ProtoMechs....

That's more like a hover battle armor. And its name is not WiGE ProtoMechs - they are Glider Protomech.

Wolf72

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #5 on: 28 January 2020, 17:13:20 »
Ultra light mechs: 10 & 15 tons

should have said ultralight battlemechs, with standard internal structure (not the 2x industrial version).

15 ton ultralights easily match 20t mechs, if using clan tech weapons.

10 ton are more of an infantry and BA support ... very fragile, but may make decent police/garrison units.

you can have standard pilots versus protomech pilots too.
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #6 on: 28 January 2020, 17:16:10 »
I'm pretty sure the Clans don't bother making use of fixed-wing aircraft.
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #7 on: 28 January 2020, 19:10:44 »
I'm pretty sure the Clans don't bother making use of fixed-wing aircraft.

Not cannonically that I've seen.  But I could see washed up aerospace pilots being assigned some IS salvage in the same way as a MechWarrior would be assigned a Hunchback IIC as a "have the good sense to take something bigger with you" ride.
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RifleMech

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #8 on: 29 January 2020, 00:35:10 »
Clans do not use superheavy and LAM at all, and are prohibited as well.

After saw the Amaris' Folly, they(or at least their forefathers) already knew that superheavy is no more than a fancy idea. And it was true unless there are some other solutions to actually make it.

LAMs are at least playable in Clans unlike superheavy mechs, however, for some clans are actually made their own experiment LAMs.

I don't think that Clans have the concept for Tripods. It was abandoned for centuries, and both Clans and Inner Sphere are not need for it. But at least they didn't ban it, so someone can think about this.

Superheavies are now proven to work. They're just so new that they're still limited to one faction. That said, once salvage starts getting spread around and reversed engineered things'll change. How or if the Clans will use them I'm not sure.

I just read in IO about the Clans abandoning LAMs and Tripods in the Clan Sub-Eras (2800-3049) section. Apparently they were too limited and difficult to assimilate into the new order. Which makes sense. I'm going to guess Tripods went first as they used crewed cockpits. That'd be really difficult for the Clans to get around. LAMs though were single seats and still had military uses so I think they lingered on until after the Dragoons left and then disappeared.

I guess the Falcons were intrigued by the LAM's use on Tukayyid and started experimenting with them. That they used crewed cockpits ended up dooming the project. At least for them. I can see the Horses using them since they use QuadVees. I could see the Horses also using Tripods but who knows?

Also read about the Clans abandoning robotic and drone technologies. So no Drone and Remote piloted Mechs. So I missed them. Silly me.  :P


Quote
Airships are not eligible for the military vessel(apart for unmanned and remote-controlled watcher).

What?  ???  I've never seen that anywhere. They are prohibited from Armored Chassis Mod and thus most heavier armors but I've never seen anything about them not being eligible for being a military vessel. I can see how they'd be used but they'd be vulnerable with their BAR armor especially against Clan weapons.


Quote
Supports... well, military support vehicles may exist. They will need some ammo-carriers or something similar.

Rails are unlikely to be an worthwhile military asset(other than local transport or occasionally naval coast defense gun carrier), so pass.

Superheavy combat vehicles... well, Wolf in exile have Gulltoppr.

Transport is a given but supports made for combat?

Cool! Thanks. :)  So the Clans would use superheavies for defense. Or at least some Clans would later on. I'm not sure about before the Invasion.



There are no Clan WiGE combat vehicles in the canon to date, AFAIK.


 ???
I don't know of any either.  That doesn't mean they're not used though. There's lots about the Clans that's still blank. There's a lot more unit types now than we had before and unfortunately we haven't had the new blanks filled in. :(




Ultra light mechs: 10 & 15 tons

should have said ultralight battlemechs, with standard internal structure (not the 2x industrial version).

15 ton ultralights easily match 20t mechs, if using clan tech weapons.

10 ton are more of an infantry and BA support ... very fragile, but may make decent police/garrison units.

you can have standard pilots versus protomech pilots too.

Good catch and good points.  :thumbsup: 


I'm pretty sure the Clans don't bother making use of fixed-wing aircraft.

Well, they did use Torrent Heavy Bombers when retaking the Pentagon Worlds. The SLDF also saw Mosquito Radar Planes flying over Strana Mechty and Huntress. So I wouldn't say the Clans don't use fixed-wing aircraft. I do feel like they're more limited to civilian duties or a narrow range of military ones.

Conventional Fighters. (Missed this one too.)
I think they'd be used less than other fixed winged aircraft. Pilots who wash out either don't fly or get a job flying civilian aircraft.

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #9 on: 29 January 2020, 06:33:50 »
Ultra light mechs: 10 & 15 tons

should have said ultralight battlemechs, with standard internal structure (not the 2x industrial version).

15 ton ultralights easily match 20t mechs, if using clan tech weapons.

10 ton are more of an infantry and BA support ... very fragile, but may make decent police/garrison units.

you can have standard pilots versus protomech pilots too.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Roadrunner_(Emerald_Harrier)

RifleMech

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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #11 on: 29 January 2020, 11:10:16 »
Superheavies are now proven to work. They're just so new that they're still limited to one faction. That said, once salvage starts getting spread around and reversed engineered things'll change. How or if the Clans will use them I'm not sure.

I just read in IO about the Clans abandoning LAMs and Tripods in the Clan Sub-Eras (2800-3049) section. Apparently they were too limited and difficult to assimilate into the new order. Which makes sense. I'm going to guess Tripods went first as they used crewed cockpits. That'd be really difficult for the Clans to get around. LAMs though were single seats and still had military uses so I think they lingered on until after the Dragoons left and then disappeared.

I guess the Falcons were intrigued by the LAM's use on Tukayyid and started experimenting with them. That they used crewed cockpits ended up dooming the project. At least for them. I can see the Horses using them since they use QuadVees. I could see the Horses also using Tripods but who knows?

Also read about the Clans abandoning robotic and drone technologies. So no Drone and Remote piloted Mechs. So I missed them. Silly me.  :P

Perhaps. In 32th, many clans are abandon their old ways, and the basic reason to ban superheavy was the failure of Matar, that was even older than Clans. Then it is the dawn of new superheavy concept. If they see some value in superheavy mechs when they against them, they can think twice. But they will requires the infrastructures for superheavy mechs at first, such as invention of superheavy mech bay.


What?  ???  I've never seen that anywhere. They are prohibited from Armored Chassis Mod and thus most heavier armors but I've never seen anything about them not being eligible for being a military vessel. I can see how they'd be used but they'd be vulnerable with their BAR armor especially against Clan weapons.

Because it can be down so easly. Also, why you are bothered to use it as the military carrier or some sorts if you can afford dropships, which is far durable and also able to reach to the jumpships.

So I think that the usage of airships are very limited. It can float in the air without any energy, but it is very easy to destroy it because of its very large size, reliance to the light gases, and limited tonnage(it is possible to make up to 300t with it, though).

It would be an ideal observation post for the military, for it can float all the time with very low cost, but that's all. However, it can be a poor man's satellite.

Transport is a given but supports made for combat?

Cool! Thanks. :)  So the Clans would use superheavies for defense. Or at least some Clans would later on. I'm not sure about before the Invasion.

Well, although their mind is rigid, but clans are always poor so they may consider refit for surplus support assets for combat.

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #12 on: 29 January 2020, 21:15:44 »
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Roadrunner_(Emerald_Harrier)

Doh! ... keep forgetting that one.  If they could just get the armor up some more. iirc it can fit 3.5t standard (56 points ... wait, just checked, can hold 55 points of armor)
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RifleMech

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #13 on: 30 January 2020, 06:52:20 »
Perhaps. In 32th, many clans are abandon their old ways, and the basic reason to ban superheavy was the failure of Matar, that was even older than Clans. Then it is the dawn of new superheavy concept. If they see some value in superheavy mechs when they against them, they can think twice. But they will requires the infrastructures for superheavy mechs at first, such as invention of superheavy mech bay.

Well, WoB and the Republic have proven they're now viable. I don't know what other factions will start using them. They'd be great for defense. Offense though would need a Superheavy Mech Bay.  Home World Clans? Maybe  a scientist thinks outside the box and isn't immediately shot?



Quote
Because it can be down so easly. Also, why you are bothered to use it as the military carrier or some sorts if you can afford dropships, which is far durable and also able to reach to the jumpships.

So I think that the usage of airships are very limited. It can float in the air without any energy, but it is very easy to destroy it because of its very large size, reliance to the light gases, and limited tonnage(it is possible to make up to 300t with it, though).

It would be an ideal observation post for the military, for it can float all the time with very low cost, but that's all. However, it can be a poor man's satellite.

It's fragility would by why not to put them on the front lines. Garrison units though could use airships as transports. They're faster than VTOLs and can carry more. Yet they're cheaper than Dropships. They'd be good for observation and recon. Like you said. Providing that Clan has air superiority. They could even conduct some air to ground attacks if they wanted to risk the airship.


Quote
Well, although their mind is rigid, but clans are always poor so they may consider refit for surplus support assets for combat.

If they're built to modern standards, I'm not sure support vehicles would be cheaper than combat vehicles. There's also crew requirements. Support vehicles require larger crews so that drives costs up. Plus other than size and some specific unit types (rail, airship, fixed wing, snowmobile) I'm not sure there's anything support vehicles can do that combat can't. 


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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #14 on: 30 January 2020, 07:27:11 »
I'm pretty sure the Clans don't bother making use of fixed-wing aircraft.

Spector Command/Recon craft is a 50 ton conventional.
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #15 on: 30 January 2020, 07:37:22 »
Well, WoB and the Republic have proven they're now viable. I don't know what other factions will start using them. They'd be great for defense. Offense though would need a Superheavy Mech Bay.  Home World Clans? Maybe  a scientist thinks outside the box and isn't immediately shot?


The highest BVed super heavy is the Poseidon at 3760.

An Executioner G comes in at 3825.

A Gulltoppr A is 3704.

Totally out of context a Kirghiz E is 4023.

Crude and over simplified I will admit. Cracking 3000 isn't remarkable for a Clan Mech. 2500 is normal for a heavy.

The Clans can match Super Heavy Mech combat power comfortably without the logistical and cultural problems.

RifleMech

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #16 on: 30 January 2020, 07:48:31 »
The highest BVed super heavy is the Poseidon at 3760.

An Executioner G comes in at 3825.

A Gulltoppr A is 3704.

Totally out of context a Kirghiz E is 4023.

Crude and over simplified I will admit. Cracking 3000 isn't remarkable for a Clan Mech. 2500 is normal for a heavy.

The Clans can match Super Heavy Mech combat power comfortably without the logistical and cultural problems.

That's certainly a good reason for the Clans not to use Superheavies. Thanks :)

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #17 on: 30 January 2020, 11:49:25 »
Airships for transport may not be a bad idea.  Remember, if it's not bid then it's not doing any fighting.   ;)

I don't think the Clans use any large blue water warships.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #18 on: 30 January 2020, 13:09:14 »
Yes, airship is still a viable transport. Just not for the military duty.

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #19 on: 30 January 2020, 23:42:31 »
Doh! ... keep forgetting that one.  If they could just get the armor up some more. iirc it can fit 3.5t standard (56 points ... wait, just checked, can hold 55 points of armor)

Even if it is a horrid idea, can you put hardened armor on an ultralight?

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #20 on: 31 January 2020, 04:55:28 »
Airships for transport may not be a bad idea.  Remember, if it's not bid then it's not doing any fighting.   ;)

I don't think the Clans use any large blue water warships.


I think it'd depend on who the airship is fighting. With the best armor BAR 9 it can still take some punishment. Once it starts getting hit with weapons that do 10 points of damage though, it's a gone.

There's the Balena IIC Submarine. It's 200 tons. I can't really see Clan Warships being over 300 tons. I also think they'd limited to a few Clans. The Wolfs got theirs from the Scorpions.


Even if it is a horrid idea, can you put hardened armor on an ultralight?

Yes

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #21 on: 31 January 2020, 11:48:37 »
Why would something not bid into a Trial be fired upon?  Same as a DropShip used to transport units to the Trial location but not included in the Trial, not involved means not a target.  Those who fire on random targets are sanctioned heavily for wasting resources.
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #22 on: 01 February 2020, 01:45:30 »
Why would something not bid into a Trial be fired upon?  Same as a DropShip used to transport units to the Trial location but not included in the Trial, not involved means not a target.  Those who fire on random targets are sanctioned heavily for wasting resources.

Just because it isn't bid doesn't mean it isn't a target and not everyone grants safe passage to the trial site. Destroy the dropship/transport carrying the forces bid, thus destroying those forces is a win for the other side.

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #23 on: 01 February 2020, 01:52:58 »
And not every fight is a trial.
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #24 on: 06 February 2020, 09:35:32 »
That's more like a hover battle armor. And its name is not WiGE ProtoMechs - they are Glider Protomech.

It has WiGE movement points....
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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #25 on: 06 February 2020, 10:03:43 »
It has WiGE movement points....

How it moves isn't the issue. Unit type does.  However, I will count them as not used much as use varies among the Clans including not used at all.

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #26 on: 06 February 2020, 12:03:17 »
It has WiGE movement points....
It is true, but irrelevant and out of topic.

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #27 on: 14 February 2020, 08:26:20 »
Least used but used . I would say artillery  star like 5 Nagas with 10 Arrow IV launchers . Used to pound landed drop ships . HQ vehicle's  walls and buildings  .

TAG and Artillery  use breaks Zellbrigen so the Clans  very rarely  use them . Not every major cluster will even field  an artillery  star . It may be the first bid away if they can . Their is zero glory piloting them  . It is a ride clan pilots that live to a disgraceful age of 50 get sidelined to .

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Re: Unit types least used by the Clans
« Reply #28 on: 14 February 2020, 11:31:26 »
I agree that Artillery are weapons that are less likely to be used by the Clans. The units they're mounted on though can vary and its the unit types I was wondering about.

For example; I really don't see the Clans having any old Rail Long Toms in their forces. I'm not even sure about new versions. They're more a defensive unit and they're very restricted in where they can be used. There wouldn't be any honor in serving on one.