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Author Topic: 3D printers  (Read 1185 times)

General308

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3D printers
« on: 08 February 2020, 20:44:54 »
Ok so this got brought up and I like the ideal of 3d printed terrain and buildings....What do you recommend and why?

NeonKnight

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #1 on: 08 February 2020, 22:36:54 »
For terrain go with a Creality CR-10 or Ender, they have LARGE print areas to allow for some large size prints.

these were all done on a CR-10
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General308

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #2 on: 08 February 2020, 22:47:46 »
Those look really good

pascal

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #3 on: 09 February 2020, 15:21:45 »
Unless you really need the size, I'd probably stick with "smaller" printer like the Ender 3 or CR20 Pro...

Keep in mind that larger potentially means a less stable frame. And large prints take a very long time, at which point you need to think whether or not you're going to trust these things to run overnight given that they can be a fire hazard (Anet *cough*).

One big advantage of the Ender 3 is that it has a ton of support for it, and you'll likely be upgrading it, my most useful upgrades have been:
- PEI Flex Steel bed
- SKR mini E3 V1.2 mainboard replacement
- BLTouch sensor (easier to setup with the SKR as opposed to the original mainboard)
- BMG extruder clone

Also take a look at the Prusa Mini, which seems to going to be a strong contender as well...

Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #4 on: 09 February 2020, 16:03:35 »
Just adding in that CR-10 prices are now about in line with CR-3 pro. So the extra size and default glass base ends up being bonus.
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dgorsman

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #5 on: 23 February 2020, 22:37:51 »
A lot of people need to be broken of the idea all prints need to be unitary/all in one go.  Many can be broken up into logical chunks and assembled.  There's a number of advantages, such as: bulk production of pieces; reduced chance and effect of print failure; better optimization of orientation; easier to paint/weather prior to assembly.

For example tall buildings could be printed as individual floors and stacked as needed for each game session.
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Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #6 on: 24 February 2020, 00:17:49 »
Modular is always good to consider.


Funny you should post because I was just breaking out the new CR-10 to prepare to print. I haven't yet leveled the bed or figured out most of the system's menu, but it's coming. The manual is truly worthless, though. Better to look up YouTube videos and Reddit/Facebook groups.
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Grognard

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #7 on: 24 February 2020, 00:30:28 »
how much $$$ are you talking to get started with a CR10?
or any mid-range/capability 3d printer?
I see the forums gushing over the functionality, but nobody will put out specific $$ info.

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Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #8 on: 24 February 2020, 01:47:40 »
$300 for that one. You get good resolution and print size for the money. It's about the cost of two decent color inkjet multifunction printers.

Some are $230 or so. I'm not sure what you sacrifice besides size there.
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Insaniac99

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #9 on: 26 February 2020, 00:51:46 »
Some are $230 or so. I'm not sure what you sacrifice besides size there.
First and foremost: Safety. Some of the cheapos are known to catch fire.

Other than that it's a sliding scale of part quality & reliability, how long the printer stays tuned after you tune it, what materials it can print (many cheap printers lose the heatbed, and lose quality in the hot-end so can only print the easier plastics), and other stuff.

Cergorach

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #10 on: 26 February 2020, 10:03:34 »
Were to get started? Actually deserves a return question, what do you want?
- Do you want to start another hobby? An Ender 3 is fun (I have one), but it requires some modding and if you want it quiet (because it is noisy) it'll take a bit of money and 'expertise' to fix it. There are a lot of resources on YouTube for that, see: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbgBDBrwsikmtoLqtpc59Bw For example.
- So you want to get started right out of the box or don't you mind a (longer) learning curve?
- Do you want this to be a learning experience (that might break your 3D printer) so you don't mind a cheaper 'flawed' 3D printer.
- What kind of money do you want to spend?

And that's besides the FDM vs resin printer question. Resins are a bit more toxic and messy then PLA filament (FDM)...

For FDM printers:
- If you want a cheap, but decent hobby project that will allow you to upgrade all kinds of things (and imho requires upgrades). An Ender 3 (Pro) is often less then $200 (depending when and where you get it).
- If you want something that really doesn't require upgrades and should work out of the box, get an Orignal Prusa Mini for $350. https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-mini/ Sure, it has a smaller printbed, but for BT scale minis, that shouldn't be an issue. If you want your projects printed faster, you can get another. ;-) Only issue is currently, new orders will ship in June 2020 due to high demand.

grimlock1

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #11 on: 26 February 2020, 10:18:35 »
First and foremost: Safety. Some of the cheapos are known to catch fire.

Other than that it's a sliding scale of part quality & reliability, how long the printer stays tuned after you tune it, what materials it can print (many cheap printers lose the heatbed, and lose quality in the hot-end so can only print the easier plastics), and other stuff.
Printers in that $200-$300 range often don't even have a heated bed.  That's something I run into with my Flashforge Finder.  Differential cooling can cause the edges of a print to lift up off the stage, creating distortion.  Depending on how bad, it can junk the part, but often the upper portions will print fine, but the bottom is spoon shaped. Heated bed helps prevent this and helps with adhesion of the initial layers. If those break loose, you come home from work and find a pile of PLA spaghetti in the machine. :-(

A lot of people need to be broken of the idea all prints need to be unitary/all in one go.  Many can be broken up into logical chunks and assembled.  There's a number of advantages, such as: bulk production of pieces; reduced chance and effect of print failure; better optimization of orientation; easier to paint/weather prior to assembly.

For example tall buildings could be printed as individual floors and stacked as needed for each game session.
This!!  There are ways to take files you get from Thingiverse and edit them, but I don't know them yet.  But presumably you are modeling your own parts.  In that case, Tab A and Slot B are your friends.  Dovetails are also wonderful.  Just remember to add draft angles or it can bind up 1/16" too soon.  Don't ask me how I know this.   :-\


In general, a better machine, with higher resolution and thinner layers will mean less finishing work.

It probably won't be too big an issue for making terrain, but higher end machines have the option of printing support structures out of PVA.  All machines should be able to do supports that you have to tear away later.  PVA support is nice because it's water soluble. A warm water bath and a toothbrush are all you need to remove it, and it doesn't mar the surface the way homogenous supports will.

If you can afford it, avoid being pennywise and pound foolish in terms of build volume.  Adhesion gets a bit squiffy at the edges of the the build space.  My Flashforge officially has a 5"x5" table but I try really hard to stay inside 4"x4".
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Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #12 on: 26 February 2020, 12:07:55 »
Printers in that $200-$300 range often don't even have a heated bed.  That's something I run into with my Flashforge Finder. 

The CR-10 I just bought has a heated bed with glass top.
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NeonKnight

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #13 on: 26 February 2020, 12:09:57 »
The CR-10 I just bought has a heated bed with glass top.

And may I suggest for a few bucks more:

https://www.amazon.ca/Creality-Upgraded-Platform-Tempered-310x310x4mm/dp/B07J9YW4WR/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1USPLW0PWSKY8&keywords=cr-10+glass+bed&qid=1582733337&sprefix=CR-10+Gla%2Caps%2C205&sr=8-3

I got one and have never had adhesion issues since (no fiddling with tape, etc!)
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Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #14 on: 26 February 2020, 13:12:56 »
I was going to do my first test print with a glue stick on the glass. Bad idea?
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NeonKnight

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #15 on: 26 February 2020, 13:19:07 »
I was going to do my first test print with a glue stick on the glass. Bad idea?

No. I just found after fiddling with TAPE and GLUE and what not else, I went to one of those and never had an issue with adhesion since
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Cergorach

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #16 on: 27 February 2020, 06:59:21 »
Those plates are SO much better then just glass, it's a worthy investment imho!

Something like a Flashforge Finder misses a lot of the essentials and doesn't grow with you (you can't upgrade it). They look great and might seem fine for an absolute beginner, but you often don't stay an absolute beginner (for long)...

Something like the Ultimaker S5 costs $6,000 but that is imho way overkill unless you intend to use it mostly professionally... ;-)

grimlock1

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #17 on: 27 February 2020, 09:00:10 »
Those plates are SO much better then just glass, it's a worthy investment imho!

Something like a Flashforge Finder misses a lot of the essentials and doesn't grow with you (you can't upgrade it). They look great and might seem fine for an absolute beginner, but you often don't stay an absolute beginner (for long)...

Something like the Ultimaker S5 costs $6,000 but that is imho way overkill unless you intend to use it mostly professionally... ;-)
I picked it up used for $130, and other toys have been higher on the budget list.  ^-^
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Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #18 on: 05 March 2020, 01:50:40 »
Achievement unlocked. The CR-10 performed very well on the first test print and I now have a very good looking li'l doggy. I see and understand what the resolution is capable of now. The finish is sort of satin in its roughness with very occasional layer artifacts that looks like the tiniest mold lines. Very very acceptable.

Next step: familiarizing myself with a slicer.

Is the Fusion 360 slicer add-in really as bad as reviews say or will it work reasonably well for model setup?
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pascal

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #19 on: 05 March 2020, 14:04:50 »
The better question put bluntly why even consider the slicer in Fusion 360?

Even if it was half-decent, it's still behind held hostage by Autodesk, given that they can make it non-free at any point, so why invest (read waste) your valuable time in it, when there are good alternatives.

Anyhow, the big two in the slicing game are PrusaSlicer (which is an enhanced derivative of slic3r) and Cura. Both of these are very high quality pieces of software, and most importantly information about these is most abundant (meaning easiest to master).

In any slicer make sure you have 6mm on the Ender3 or probably 7mm? on the CR10 of retraction (longer bowden tube usually means more retraction), and you have wipe/comb on retraction enabled.

Also, at some point, when you're starting to have issues with your hotend (or need to replace your Bowden tube for whatever reason), you may want to look into:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIkjR2Ytx-g
While your printer is new, and working fine, leave it be though.
« Last Edit: 05 March 2020, 14:37:17 by pascal »

pascal

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #20 on: 05 March 2020, 14:08:18 »
You may also want to look into matte filaments...

Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #21 on: 05 March 2020, 14:20:16 »
The better question put bluntly why even consider the slicer in Fusion 360?

Even if it was half-decent, it's still behind held hostage by Autodesk, given that they can make it non-free at any point, so why invest (read waste) your valuable time in it, when there are good alternatives.

Convenience and trust. I'm a longtime subscriber of Eagle for pcb fabrication and they've done right by me to this point. However, I'm not opposed to other tools.
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NeonKnight

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #22 on: 05 March 2020, 14:27:07 »
In any slicer make sure you have 6mm on the Ender3 or probably 7mm? on the CR10 of retraction (longer bowden tube usually means more retraction), and you have wipe/comb on retraction enabled.

Hmm...I'll have to check this out.

I know I finally after two years replaced my first nozzle on the CR10
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pascal

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #23 on: 05 March 2020, 14:38:31 »
Then you must have had a 0.6mm nozzle at the end (even if you started out at 0.4mm)...  ;D

To maintain print quality you'll probably want to replace the (brass) nozzle every few months if you print a lot...

Bedwyr

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #24 on: 05 March 2020, 16:48:36 »
Retraction means the amount filament gets pulled back from the nozzle to prevent strings, right?

What's wipe/comb?
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Insaniac99

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #25 on: 05 March 2020, 16:59:29 »
Retraction means the amount filament gets pulled back from the nozzle to prevent strings, right?

What's wipe/comb?

Combing is is skipping the retract and z-hop steps and traveling inside the model when possible.

Check out this more full guide, with photos to compare the differences:

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/af822o/psa_limit_your_combing_distance/

I am Belch II

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #26 on: 05 March 2020, 17:45:32 »
Looking to pick one up soon, hopefully it wont start a fire.
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NeonKnight

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #27 on: 05 March 2020, 18:18:06 »
Retraction means the amount filament gets pulled back from the nozzle to prevent strings, right?

What's wipe/comb?

No clue either of those, but...TURN IRONING ON

makes the top layer much smoother
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Insaniac99

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #28 on: 06 March 2020, 12:58:39 »
Looking to pick one up soon, hopefully it wont start a fire.

Don't buy a printer that is less than $300 MSRP (as a general rule), Check for certifications, don't leave flammable stuff near it.

Cergorach

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Re: 3D printers
« Reply #29 on: 07 March 2020, 14:06:56 »
Don't buy a printer that is less than $300 MSRP (as a general rule), Check for certifications, don't leave flammable stuff near it.
That is really bad advice, that insinuates that $300+ is safer, but it isn't. The Ender 3 is half that (at times) and performs better then a lot more expensive machines. Trusting blindly on safety on more expensive machines and 'selfsigned' certificates is asking for trouble! Check the machine yourself, test the machine yourself, especially at this price bracket.