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Author Topic: Clan phenotypes  (Read 991 times)

Empyrus

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Clan phenotypes
« on: 19 February 2020, 18:25:38 »
I wonder if there are some i haven't read or heard about.

EDIT, updated:
MechWarriors
Aerospace pilots
Elementals
ProtoMech pilots (Hell's Horses, Blood Spirits, derived from ASF-line)
Naval Commanders (Raven exclusive, derived from ASF-line)
TankWarriors (Hell's Horse exclusive, combination of MW and Elemental lines)
Elstars (Dark Age-era combination/genetically enhanced type)
Mystic (Nova Cat phenotype to enhance mystic powers and observation)

Did i miss anything else?
« Last Edit: 19 February 2020, 18:47:57 by Empyrus »
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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #1 on: 19 February 2020, 18:31:57 »
Well . . . Raven Naval is just proven bloodlines of Aero pilots.  They are not really a separate phenotype but just a sub-category.

TankWarriors are mixed mechwarrior & Elemental bloodlines . . . basically acknowledging that physical strength is easier to make repairs on your tank (aka breaking track) while having a smaller sized crew lets you get things like the 'low profile' quirk (see Soviet tank crew requirements).  So mediocre short Elemental blood heritages mixed with specially selected (and usually not prime MW stuff) Mechwarrior heritages- by 3130s it may still be a product in development, but by 3150 it should be battle proven.  Not sure when it was introduced which is why the last statement.  They might also have been bred for Quad-Vee use- just ready before the first effective designs.

Elstars . . . honestly, that was never very well explained afaik and seemed to be a project to force genetic evolution.

You DID forget the Nova Cat's Mystics . . . of course, they maybe gone if we never see Kishio and his jumpship again.
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #2 on: 19 February 2020, 18:35:40 »
Whoah, there's a Mystic phenotype? Where was that featured?

As for Elstars, as i understand, their original source (some MWDA novel) implied they're a combination of primary phenotypes, though given how genetics work, i don't think they'd necessarily inherit strengths of all the specialized phenotypes. Indeed, i suspect this is the reason later material implies they're genetically engineered, presumably all the necessary genes are artificially added/activated, though i assume the result isn't perfect.

EDIT  I think TankWarriors predate QuadVees quite a bit, though they are kind of a natural fit for those by happenstance.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #3 on: 19 February 2020, 18:43:03 »
Yeah, the Mystics feature pretty prominently in the Nova Cat's contribution around the time of Victor's funeral in the form of Kishio.  I want to say he was introduced in a book before that but its been a while since I read early MWDA fiction.  The example we are given is someone who was supposed to be good, but doubted his 'gifts' even worked at all or was he hyper-observant?  They are all descended from Minobu's genetics combined with I would imagine the Cat warriors who exhibited the best visions.  Hrm . . . gives you a alternate bloodline as a claim to the Dragon . . . You should be able to look him up on Sarna.

I will agree TankWarriors predate the Quad-Vees, but my point was that perhaps they were developed before Quad-Vees became established.  IE, both were thought of as a program and it was easier to mix the genes in a beaker than to perfect the Quad-Vee tech.  I am not sure we ever saw anything about either one from the Horse perspective.

I also forgot, the Ravens and perhaps the Horses have started to develop their own Proto lines under the Aero phenotype.  I know one of the TRO3145 Proto entries mentioned Proto pilots getting a bloodname.
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #4 on: 19 February 2020, 18:45:39 »
Oh, right, ProtoMech pilots, another ASF-line derivative.

Think both Blood Spirits and Horses have those. Or had?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #5 on: 19 February 2020, 18:56:18 »
Ravens for sure, besides using washouts- probably have a division some thing like Trueborn/Freeborn.  Horses might, but not sure . . . they are the next most likely.

Spirits . . . well, maybe- but they are dead.  I think the other question would be . . . the Scorpions?  They used Protos, not sure the Hellions got into it . . . but Protos would be a great thing for their resource strapped situation- just like it was for the Jags.
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rebs

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #6 on: 20 February 2020, 04:49:44 »
Don't the Ravens also have a Warship Commander Phenotype?  It may not have been successful  as they hoped, iirc...

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #7 on: 20 February 2020, 05:01:29 »
Its the naval, its a subset of the ASF
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grimlock1

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #8 on: 20 February 2020, 17:38:02 »
Don't the Ravens also have a Warship Commander Phenotype?  It may not have been successful  as they hoped, iirc...
How would that work out in trials?

Imagine being opposite one of those fellows in a Bloodname trial when they choose to fight augmented!

Idle question:  The last spot in a Bloodname trial goes to the winner of the Grand Melee. For 'names that aren't exclusive to a branch, do they have individual melees for each service?  Or could a lone Elemental find them self in a Grand Melee with 24 mech jocks?
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #9 on: 20 February 2020, 17:50:45 »
How would that work out in trials?

Imagine being opposite one of those fellows in a Bloodname trial when they choose to fight augmented!
I think the Ravens use a lot of simulators for naval commander types for practical reasons.
Also i suspect the naval commander Bloodnames are only for naval commanders, this would sidestep this kind of weirdness. Alternatively, they're also expected to be capable of operating a fighter.

I mean, there is no logical way for a DropShip to Warship to fight an even trial with any other unit type. Elemental vs 'Mech can be balanced to an extent for example.

Uh, this makes me wonder how Elemental vs ASF pilot fights that are augmented work.
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ravensword

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #10 on: 20 February 2020, 18:04:11 »
Uh, this makes me wonder how Elemental vs ASF pilot fights that are augmented work.

20-ton fighters and a Mk 2 AA weapon on the AP mount for the Elemental, I'd assume.

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #11 on: 20 February 2020, 18:16:42 »
Naval trials are usually done with specific goals defined like 'first to X type damage,' amount of damage, crits or other specific established goal.  And yes, the Ravens do use naval simulators . . . so they might fight to simulated destruction.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #12 on: 23 February 2020, 16:14:34 »
I think the Ravens use a lot of simulators for naval commander types for practical reasons.
Also i suspect the naval commander Bloodnames are only for naval commanders, this would sidestep this kind of weirdness. Alternatively, they're also expected to be capable of operating a fighter.

I mean, there is no logical way for a DropShip to Warship to fight an even trial with any other unit type. Elemental vs 'Mech can be balanced to an extent for example.

Uh, this makes me wonder how Elemental vs ASF pilot fights that are augmented work.
IIRC, TRO3145 Merc has an anecdote where a Nagasawa captain bids down to only using one PPC vs a Scytha.
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Maelwys

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #13 on: 23 February 2020, 21:11:37 »
Is the mystic caste actually a Phenotype or is it just a caste?

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #14 on: 24 February 2020, 11:18:09 »
Its not a caste- they are a part of the warrior caste . . . consider them something more akin to a bloodhouse as they descended from Minobu Kurita who joined the Nova Cats.  But it has its own breeding program designed to increase the mystic abilities of each new generation, with the reader's most familiarization being Kishio- which we are given as ironic b/c he is not even sure about his own 'gift.'
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #15 on: 24 February 2020, 11:31:02 »
Figure it is sorta half and half. A sub-caste of the Warrior Caste, made up by specifically bred warriors.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #16 on: 24 February 2020, 11:33:25 »
Which is why I said its like a Bloodhouse- they breed to the 'gene' identified as generating the mystic abilities but they lack a actual Bloodname . . . though if Kishio ever makes to to Rikkard with the last of the Nova Cats, he might be granted one or the mystics could end since IIRC that was not something the Spirit Cats copied their fellows to create.
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grimlock1

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #17 on: 24 February 2020, 11:50:22 »
Uh, this makes me wonder how Elemental vs ASF pilot fights that are augmented work.
I've been asking that since I read Lost Destiny.
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dgorsman

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #18 on: 24 February 2020, 11:50:58 »
And per ER:3145, a lot of intense training in specific fields such as statistical analysis and meditation styles.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #19 on: 24 February 2020, 12:08:10 »
I've been asking that since I read Lost Destiny.

Didn't the ASF pilot Phelan knocked out of the sky take out a Elemental in her previous round?  It was also mentioned as the risk a ASF pilot or Elemental ran when competing for a Blood heritage that was general or just not associated with their phenotype.
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grimlock1

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #20 on: 24 February 2020, 15:03:23 »
Didn't the ASF pilot Phelan knocked out of the sky take out a Elemental in her previous round?  It was also mentioned as the risk a ASF pilot or Elemental ran when competing for a Blood heritage that was general or just not associated with their phenotype.
Kinda makes you wonder how many Elementals have lost to ASF pilots in hand to hand because they got cocky? :toofunny:
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marauder648

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #21 on: 25 February 2020, 13:12:31 »
Re the Aerospace phenotype, why does their description make me think



Its one thing that always irked me, they'd not be dinky midgets, their bodies would be less able to endure the g-forces, and at the speeds they're moving at, eyes won't be much use and you'd be working mainly with sensors/radar etc, not the Mk1 eyeball.

If I was to re-do it, i'd make it so that they're 'small' by Clan standards. From what i've read, your Average Warrior is around the 6' tall mark or even taller, they're big, strong people. Not Elementals but still, big gits. You want a smaller pilot, have them be more normal, 5'4 - 5'9 at the most, and with physical training that focuses far more on endurace and cardio-vascular training. So they're not big like a warrior but wiery, with strong hearts and are still strong but wiry in build.

Perhaps fluff it so the original template was Oompa-loompas with O_O eyes but it was rejected by like ALL the Clans, as being too extreme and with far too many costs outweighing the benefits and instead it was re-done as a 'small' but physically fit person instead of the huge diversion with the cannonical aerospace phenotype.

« Last Edit: 25 February 2020, 13:31:51 by marauder648 »
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #22 on: 25 February 2020, 13:50:23 »
+1 to above.  Small, strong people with superhuman reflexes moreso than even the other phenotypes and a more durable nervous system for EI or similar cyber augments.  Their training would be focused on zero g combat and technical matters which is why they and others could beat Elementals un-augmented there.  These individuals also would be great as assassins and the like if the clans practiced that sort of dezgra behavior.

Talen5000

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #23 on: 25 February 2020, 23:44:54 »
Uh, this makes me wonder how Elemental vs ASF pilot fights that are augmented work.

The pilot would be given a craft suited to the environment chosen by the Elemental.

Likely, a small, light conventional aircraft armed with machine guns.

Think more Spitfire instead of a Kirghiz.
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grimlock1

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #24 on: 26 February 2020, 12:00:59 »
+1 to above.  Small, strong people with superhuman reflexes moreso than even the other phenotypes and a more durable nervous system for EI or similar cyber augments.  Their training would be focused on zero g combat and technical matters which is why they and others could beat Elementals un-augmented there.  These individuals also would be great as assassins and the like if the clans practiced that sort of dezgra behavior.
We are basically taking about a race of Olympic gymnasts, aren't we?

Why even have a mechwarrior phenotype?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #25 on: 26 February 2020, 12:07:07 »
Because the mechwarrior is going to be built more like a running back- which will be useful in the lower caste for washouts or infantry/armor for those who fail to impress.  And size matters for infantry & armor- besides sticking to the human norm is 'easier' to work with than the ASF phenotype probably was . . . heck, the Ghost Bears never adopted the Aero phenotype so as proven by Bjorn there should not be a physical difference between Bear pilots & mechwarriors.
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marauder648

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #26 on: 28 February 2020, 09:22:33 »
Speaking of Phenotypes, when would the first Trueborn of the Warrior and pilots started appearing? I'd assume sometime after Nicky's death.
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grimlock1

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #27 on: 28 February 2020, 09:56:38 »
Speaking of Phenotypes, when would the first Trueborn of the Warrior and pilots started appearing? I'd assume sometime after Nicky's death.
From The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky(pg 30-31), the early Iron Wombs were online in 2816, but the Nicholas formally established the program in 2819.  Nicholas died in 2834, so he would have seen at generation and a half of Trueborn warriors, but I don't think he saw what we would recognize as the modern Elemental or Pilot phenotypes.
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #28 on: 28 February 2020, 11:28:07 »
I wonder how Elementals were created. Now, it could be that the Horses had been breeding bigger humans for a while until they eventually just got that big, but Elementals are exceptionally big and strong, which makes me wonder if the Horses did do some genetic engineering beyond the usual Clan scope (correcting some flaws but that's it)
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grimlock1

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Re: Clan phenotypes
« Reply #29 on: 28 February 2020, 12:52:08 »
I wonder how Elementals were created. Now, it could be that the Horses had been breeding bigger humans for a while until they eventually just got that big, but Elementals are exceptionally big and strong, which makes me wonder if the Horses did do some genetic engineering beyond the usual Clan scope (correcting some flaws but that's it)
It does get a bit blurry because some sources suggest Elementals and Pilots are the results of selective breeding, while others suggest the were engineered. The second option leads to the question of "why are Clan warriors still basically human?"  Why don't Pilots have hollow bones to save weight?
 Why don't Elementals have scutes?  Exactly how much tinkering is acceptable? 
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.