Register Register

Author Topic: Most Powerful single mech by rules level  (Read 2946 times)

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2324
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #60 on: 25 March 2020, 22:09:11 »
A standard introductory level Xanthos has 323 points of armor. This is more than any Mech of its era. With its weaponry it isa major threat to any and all who oppose it

Thank you for your input, but the discussion was about Primitive 'Mechs - the Primitive Xanthos has 160 points of armor.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

GreekFire

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2324
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #61 on: 25 March 2020, 22:12:57 »
So nobody's even gonna mention the Gyrfalcon 4? ???

Ehh...TSEMP 'Mechs are way too dependent on lucky rolls for me to really consider them top contenders.
I feel like if it bumps into something like the Blood Asp G it'll get absolutely vaporized unless the Gyrfalcon 4 nails that shutdown.
Looking for a write-up on your favorite 'Mech? Check this out: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
Want to know which 'Mechs haven't been covered? Take a look at this: http://pastebin.com/9LNAMhFC
Interested in requesting or writing a 'Mech of the Week article? Come join us over here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55619.0

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10350
  • CR 21 Bullshit Elemental
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #62 on: 25 March 2020, 22:58:16 »
TSEMP is best applied in waves. the best solution to static low probability is a high quantity of attempts

Retry

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 907
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #63 on: 25 March 2020, 23:09:05 »
TSEMP is best applied in waves. the best solution to static low probability is a high quantity of attempts
If I have the spare tonnage to waste on waves of TSEMPs to get consistently good results, I have the spare tonnage for Snubbie PPCs or lasers to simply vaporize the target.

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10350
  • CR 21 Bullshit Elemental
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #64 on: 25 March 2020, 23:20:00 »
no one said it was a good idea

sometimes a bad hand played cleverly is the only option you have

Son of Kerenski

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 456
  • Everything is AWESOME.
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #65 on: 27 March 2020, 11:45:11 »
The Archangel is really only superior at avoiding death by crits, though.  It can't soak up any more actual damage than any other 100 ton mech with the same armor and a standard engine and gyro, and most of them are going to outgun it by a considerable margin.  All it can dish out is 40 points of damage for no heat if it's standing still, or 50 points if it wants to gain 10 heat.  Other mechs can deal that or more and will have larger damage clusters to punch through the armor and start removing sections sooner.

Which other IS standard mechs are you referring to?

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19101
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #66 on: 27 March 2020, 11:50:43 »
Giving the Archangel to a pilot of Berith's attributes is a bit of a cheat, but straight up fight?

Thunderhawk, Devastator, Fafnir, O-Bake in the assault class . . .

Heavy class is a bit more iffy, maybe a Falconer or Warhammer -9D (5/8/3?)

Phoenix Hawk 7K, Uziel 8S, TR1 Wraith, or other designs along those lines (is there a 2 Snub & IJJ medium?)

If we BV balance it, then a lot more faster ranged options become available.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2353
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #67 on: 27 March 2020, 19:16:07 »
TSM Berzerker is pretty nasty.

Greatclub

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #68 on: 27 March 2020, 20:33:19 »
TSM Berzerker is pretty nasty.

As I said earlier, balancing heat on it is a pain. I'll take the relative fragility of the Banshee -8S over the 'zerk.

Giovanni Blasini

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4296
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #69 on: 27 March 2020, 20:42:33 »
For Primitives, what about the Helepolis?
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 18174
  • Dang it!
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #70 on: 28 March 2020, 15:00:56 »
For Primitives, what about the Helepolis?
Because it artillery can fire nuclear shells?
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Sgtops54

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #71 on: 30 March 2020, 00:12:55 »
Crusader.

Son of Kerenski

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 456
  • Everything is AWESOME.
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #72 on: 30 March 2020, 08:16:06 »
Giving the Archangel to a pilot of Berith's attributes is a bit of a cheat, but straight up fight?

Thunderhawk, Devastator, Fafnir, O-Bake in the assault class . . .

Heavy class is a bit more iffy, maybe a Falconer or Warhammer -9D (5/8/3?)

Phoenix Hawk 7K, Uziel 8S, TR1 Wraith, or other designs along those lines (is there a 2 Snub & IJJ medium?)

If we BV balance it, then a lot more faster ranged options become available.

OBakemono? With Arrow 4? I will take that fight one on one any old day of the week.

Would also happily take on the Thawk with its 3 exploding Gauss and XL engine.

And with standard pilots. No Berith BS.

Warhammer 9D is also fragile. Would definately outlast it in a match.

There's a chance a Uzi or Wraith might be able to wear it down eventually but it's gotta get close to those Peeps.

There are 2 mediums with 2 Snubs and 7 jump. Yao Lien and Eidolon.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19101
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #73 on: 30 March 2020, 11:18:26 »
The Warhammer 9D has movement and 5 hexes of range, forcing it into HPPC range is going to be more of a challenge for the slow Archangel.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Son of Kerenski

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 456
  • Everything is AWESOME.
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #74 on: 30 March 2020, 19:16:42 »
You forget the Luminos version also has ERPPCs. Happy to stand still and trade 2 ten pointers at maximum range until the cows come home.

It also has slightly less BV2 than the 9D

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2353
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #75 on: 30 March 2020, 20:02:21 »
As I said earlier, balancing heat on it is a pain. I'll take the relative fragility of the Banshee -8S over the 'zerk.

I never had a problem with it.  First round, you walk and shoot the ER PPC and 4 ER Mediums plus the Flamer.  That puts you at 9 heat.  You can set up out of LOS if you want and just shoot at trees or something if you need to.

Now you just need to stay heat neutral.  So you can run, shoot the ER PPC and 2 ER Mediums and Flamer, or 5 ER Mediums and Flamer.  You'll stay right at 9.  Either dump ammo on the Anti-Missile System, or live with occasionally going to 10 heat and walking next round.  Either way, you just need to keep 9+ so you can get those 40 point hits.  The movement bonus isn't as vital once you get to HTH range.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2353
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #76 on: 30 March 2020, 20:04:38 »
All of you who are talking about Battle Value should go wash your mouths out with soap.  That heresy has no place in a thread like this. ;)

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15587
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #77 on: 30 March 2020, 20:33:05 »
Agreed... BV, which has no mechanism to account for player skill, isn't particularly useful.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17734
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #78 on: 30 March 2020, 20:53:06 »
Battle value isn't supposed to represent player skill.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15587
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #79 on: 30 March 2020, 20:53:46 »
Exactly the problem.

Paul

  • dies a lot at the Solaris Melee Challenge!
  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13992
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #80 on: 30 March 2020, 21:44:58 »
Exactly the problem.

How would that even be achievable though?

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17734
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #81 on: 30 March 2020, 23:03:27 »
I'm pretty sure it would involve a lot of tournament play.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Greatclub

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #82 on: 30 March 2020, 23:10:50 »
How would that even be achievable though?

manually, with a handicap based on a rough estimate.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17734
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #83 on: 30 March 2020, 23:20:44 »
I'm pretty sure that would make things even less balanced.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10350
  • CR 21 Bullshit Elemental
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #84 on: 30 March 2020, 23:24:14 »
It’s all relative. I ran chaos campaigns for the same people for years. The BV adjustments I made for their games were curved to their skill and play style. I doubt they would work for a general audience

Greatclub

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #85 on: 30 March 2020, 23:39:53 »
It’s all relative. I ran chaos campaigns for the same people for years. The BV adjustments I made for their games were curved to their skill and play style. I doubt they would work for a general audience
This.


Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15587
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #86 on: 31 March 2020, 03:45:33 »
Yes, that... a GM who knows their players.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19101
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #87 on: 31 March 2020, 11:09:19 »
You forget the Luminos version also has ERPPCs. Happy to stand still and trade 2 ten pointers at maximum range until the cows come home.

It also has slightly less BV2 than the 9D

Your shifting targets on me- you were discussing the Berith person config.  I put up IS models of various classes that could defeat it with a stock pilot, you wanted to shift to a more ranged model.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7213
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #88 on: 31 March 2020, 11:46:17 »
Think this entire discussion went off the rails some time ago.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Son of Kerenski

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 456
  • Everything is AWESOME.
Re: Most Powerful single mech by rules level
« Reply #89 on: 31 March 2020, 20:21:08 »
Your shifting targets on me- you were discussing the Berith person config.  I put up IS models of various classes that could defeat it with a stock pilot, you wanted to shift to a more ranged model.

No targets to shift as I never actually said I would be using the Berith model or pilot. Go through my posts again and you will see that.

I would use the Dominus against Assaults and the Luminos against Heavies and lower.