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Author Topic: Warship Race Redux  (Read 11870 times)

Hairbear541

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #120 on: 05 April 2020, 20:35:43 »
question to you gents , have any of you thought about using davy crockett  as a special munition for aerospace lrm attacks .  .25 to .75 kt range , really be a bad day for whom ever is on the recieving end .
ps...marcus i think i'm going to have to go without a grav deck on this design .
« Last Edit: 05 April 2020, 20:38:18 by Hairbear541 »

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #121 on: 05 April 2020, 20:43:09 »
Hairbear - were treating all space combat as if its already nuclear or good enough - because we want warships, not dust clouds.

IDK why your version of the spreadsheet is buggin out over a small Grav Deck... msg me and we can talk through it.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #122 on: 06 April 2020, 08:20:30 »
Also - Gentle Reminder - we would like to get turns in by the 10th, which is this Friday.  That will give Smegish and I a weekend to start processing.  If you want someone to eyeball before you post it, Im happy to look, or you can put an unofficial version up here before the official version goes in the IC thread  - even the ones in the IC thread should be treated as editable for error correction, etc. up until the end of the day on the 10th.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 11:37:53 by marcussmythe »

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #123 on: 06 April 2020, 17:58:54 »
Quick question.

SRCS is listed as dawn of space flight level tech.

And in the Tech tree Caspar is listed as something we can learn.

Does buying the ECM tech upgrade make the Shielded SRCS available for use?

And minor followup should the Naval C3 be higher tech then Caspar tech since Caspars gain the bennifits of Naval C3.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #124 on: 06 April 2020, 18:09:37 »
Quick question.

SRCS is listed as dawn of space flight level tech.

And in the Tech tree Caspar is listed as something we can learn.

Does buying the ECM tech upgrade make the Shielded SRCS available for use?

And minor followup should the Naval C3 be higher tech then Caspar tech since Caspars gain the bennifits of Naval C3.

Im putting SRCS on 'open' availability.  Shielded Version going in with Casper - it actually had a ~later YIS Date than Casper, but close enough for government work.

RE:  C3 v Casper - in universe, C3 has a later intro date than Casper.  One presumes its easier to network computers than people?  For now Im going to leave those dates as they stand.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 18:35:32 by marcussmythe »

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #125 on: 06 April 2020, 18:15:41 »
Let me get to my books - will edit answer in.

P146 TO under the ATAC system it mentions NC3 benefits.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #126 on: 06 April 2020, 18:21:54 »
Sorry ive been bleh this past week: typing up the turn as we speak it should be finished by tonight.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #127 on: 06 April 2020, 18:42:20 »
Sorry ive been bleh this past week: typing up the turn as we speak it should be finished by tonight.

Feel better!  Looking forward to seeing it!

VensersRevenge

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #128 on: 06 April 2020, 18:43:09 »
My papers took longer than I thought they would. My turn should be up tomorrow.
...Is this just fantasy?
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #129 on: 06 April 2020, 20:12:03 »
Well its up: let me know if I did anything wrong: tried to include a bit of RP indicating doctrine, how badly the last guy messed up (my own RP flare because... why not) and why my designs might be a tad off....

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #130 on: 06 April 2020, 20:40:32 »
I like it. Nice touch with Admiral Corrupt.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #131 on: 06 April 2020, 20:43:53 »
Well its up: let me know if I did anything wrong: tried to include a bit of RP indicating doctrine, how badly the last guy messed up (my own RP flare because... why not) and why my designs might be a tad off....

The intention had been to use generic fighters, jumpships, and dropships, and focus on the warships.  (The Lyran Heavy Fighter was included for flavor, this may have mislead some people).  That said, on reflection Im not opposed to people designing abd building their own custom craft at every level - just dont expect them to radically outperform their ‘generic’ counterparts on a per cost or per unit basis.  It does give a LOT of flavour, and I promise to try to take the custom designs chosen into account when I process combat - note ‘try’, theres a bunch of you all and everyone will have the same right to custom toys.  Just dont expect them to give you a meaningful edge - noone should be forced to min-max their fighters or droppers to keep up.  Do not feel that you need to ‘roll your own’ JS or DS or Fighter or Tank to get an edge or to stay competitive.

Sound fair to everyone?


Some notes:  I intended Funds to be ‘Funds left over from last turn’ (zero, youll be negative next turn).  Revenue for new income.

Starting assets are -zero-, other than your revenue, the technologies commonly available, and your starting yards.  JS and DS and everything else has to be bought - and remember next turn you have to pay maintenance on it.  (The only navy with starting assets is the TH - they started this race)

Also, check your editing.  You left Lyran Commonwealth in there at least once.

I see the debt.  That... probably wont get you in trouble if its paid off next turn, but if its abused, expect it to have consequences going forward.

Im really enjoying the writing.  Thats what I love most about this stuff.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 20:52:32 by marcussmythe »

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #132 on: 06 April 2020, 20:49:03 »
Theirs a lot more in my head but I tried to keep it PG-13. That and I kinda wanted to put some Scandinavian in somewhere but since I've got  absolutely no knowledge of any of the languages and I didn't want to waste forever on Google Translate i'm skipping most of it.

EDIT: Sorry yes, I just figured as a smaller navy id work a bit with that for initial start up. I might be designing a couple DS in the future but only a pair of fighters from now on: referencing them as just generic staples for the entire fleet. Again my bad.

Second EDIT: Got it Marcus: editing the post now
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 20:53:56 by Tyler Jorgensson »

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #133 on: 06 April 2020, 21:06:03 »
Also, please round your costs to the nearest Million.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #134 on: 06 April 2020, 21:09:20 »
Sorry: On it

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #135 on: 06 April 2020, 21:18:28 »
Theirs a lot more in my head but I tried to keep it PG-13. That and I kinda wanted to put some Scandinavian in somewhere but since I've got  absolutely no knowledge of any of the languages and I didn't want to waste forever on Google Translate i'm skipping most of it.

EDIT: Sorry yes, I just figured as a smaller navy id work a bit with that for initial start up. I might be designing a couple DS in the future but only a pair of fighters from now on: referencing them as just generic staples for the entire fleet. Again my bad.

Second EDIT: Got it Marcus: editing the post now

Given the Forum Rules, PG-13 is assumed.

Im fine with custom everything, I want to encourage fluff and creativity - different navies will have different demands at every level - the US Built Hellcats, the IJN built Zeros, and there are reasons for each.

I just dont want anyone to feel they need to do so to get or keep an edge.

ALSO:  Double check, but it looks like you overcharged yourself for prototypes.  Design and Prototyping work is 25% of the cost of the thing... an 8B Warship costs 2B to design, etc.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 21:21:16 by marcussmythe »

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #136 on: 06 April 2020, 21:24:26 »
Also, please round your costs to the nearest Million.

Million?  I always just rounded all fractions up to the nearest billion.  :)

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #137 on: 06 April 2020, 21:25:17 »
Yeah I noticed some inconsistencies regarding my numbers.... ill post again when I figured out where I went wrong in my notes. Gotta open like five tabs for the Google Docs, MML, and my posts lol

EDIT: Triple checked... I 'think' I'm good on the numbers now? And that just means 3 billion off my budget next turn! Go me making my life hard for myself!  >:D
But seriously it should be good.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 21:47:12 by Tyler Jorgensson »

kindalas

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #138 on: 06 April 2020, 23:03:22 »
For aerospace fighters, dropships and small craft are we supposed to use the generic vehicle costs for them and to consider our designs to just be fluff?

Because that's how I designed the Shu-3 for the LC.




Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #139 on: 07 April 2020, 02:13:25 »
For aerospace fighters, dropships and small craft are we supposed to use the generic vehicle costs for them and to consider our designs to just be fluff?

Because that's how I designed the Shu-3 for the LC.

Very true, fluff em however you please, but the costs for Aero/Small Craft/DS are as listed on the master sheet. Missed that earlier.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #140 on: 07 April 2020, 07:44:36 »
Looks like I really need to get a small post ready.
In retrospect, I should have maybe taken the CC. They fight so nicely dirty.  ^-^
Sometimes I catch myself thinking "nah, the DC wouldn't do that. Probably." ;D
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marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #141 on: 07 April 2020, 10:46:39 »
Looks like I really need to get a small post ready.
In retrospect, I should have maybe taken the CC. They fight so nicely dirty.  ^-^
Sometimes I catch myself thinking "nah, the DC wouldn't do that. Probably." ;D

Well, for us here, 'fighting dirty' goes more to design and doctrine - remember, were playing the CNO, not the admiral at the front lines, nor the backstabbing political leader.

Note also the era - the DC in this era only has some of its samurai flavor, compared to later - and they are crazy conquerors with the likes of Kentares in their future.  Their TOS Klingons compared to the TNG Klingons of the 3SW.

The CC, OTOH, is in this era not yet a crazy Chinese Communist Yellow Peril Expy with Stalinist Sidebars - this is the nation that made peace with its other bits in the face of external threats, is reknown for its education, and would produce the leader that pushed for the ares accords.  They should really be science and culture and the like, in these days.

Jester Motley

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #142 on: 07 April 2020, 16:23:28 »
At the risk of violating the adage, "Never interrupt your enemy in the process of making a mistake..."

I was perusing many of the ship designs so far submitted and noticed a distinct lacking of escape pods and boats on a number of designs across a number of fleets.  Including one design that appears to have zero.  And a number of those designs are carrying marines.

I know its a small amount of weight (except for troop haulers, but still not much), but I can't help but think that in-universe people would question that?  And I don't see how that's not going to bite someone in the tail at some point, either morale issues, "Sir, um... the marines somehow learned to count with their shoes on, and they've concluded there's 30 lifeboats on the vessel... and 2000 of them.  Um... they're asking questions now and I don't know how to answer them.  And giving them the blue desert crayons isn't calming them down this time."  or a PR nightmare as troops describe attempts to abandon ship...  "Star News Network here, bringing you word from the survivors of the recent battle...  Ship's mate Johnson, I understand you were on the oddly named SS GonnaGoBoom when she suffered a catastrophic warp core breach?"  Johnson: "Warp cores are from holovision!  It was worse, the fusion plant had a cracked bottle and the scuttle charge didn't work.  Captain ordered abandon ship, and we all start running to the pods, but...  There weren't enough!  I saw two officers knife fight over the last slot in a boat.  Sadly for them, I was able to slip in and hit the launch button."

I know 'small craft' sounds like an answer, but if you can't dump all your small craft and fighters in one turn/flush, that doesn't sound like a viable alternative to not enough pods and boats.  Not to mention things like being fueled, ready to launch at a moments notice, having enough bay doors, flight control, etc.

And I'm not sure "casualties mean we don't have to supply for everyone" just doesn't seem like a good comment to make after a disaster without initial casualties...  Like a patrol boat that decided to ram an ice-breaker cruise ship's hull, and sunk itself...  (Seriously, wtf Venezuela... wtf.)

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #143 on: 07 April 2020, 17:18:02 »
Ah, yes, the age is a bit different.

I think it'd be nice to have some limited variety in the smaller assets - maybe besides fluff, allowing to maybe have some effect in usage in the more outrageous cases might be interesting.

To take an example far into the future - a player could make the strategic decision to outfit all future interceptors with XXL engines, granting more speed than their competitors at twice the cost.
Maybe we could develop some guidelines that allow players to basically adopt a doctrine that influences their auxiliary forces in some predetermined way.
Another example would be a small craft like the later Würger - get better point defense, lose fighting capability or troop transport space. Of course, the actual equipment on the detailed design still wouldn't matter.
We need a thinking smiley.
Then again, later on, having stats for a factions pocket warship might not be such a stretch. Of course, priority must be to prevent overwork of our erstwhile overlords game masters.

@Jester Motley  Heh. I was actually thinking about that a bit. I usually try to incorporate enough either boats or pods to contain my standard crew, and a fraction of the bay personell (who for some reason don't need berthing).
Though I also assume that when a ship is abandoned, 10% of the crew, give or take, is already dead, and most fighters and combat worthy small craft will have already launched with their regular crew complement.

A further question: Do we still have unlimited structure, and standard pricing for armour? I felt there was little reason to not go all out on at least the latter.
« Last Edit: 07 April 2020, 17:34:17 by UnLimiTeD »
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #144 on: 07 April 2020, 18:17:57 »
Were using the ‘normal’ rules for SI, so its still tied to drive.

That said, I find the 150 SI 3/5 Superships less of a ‘given’ now that Im thinking in terms of more than raw combat power - that SI eats up a LOT of your spare tonnage.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #145 on: 07 April 2020, 18:33:28 »
Yes, SI costs tonnage. Though I still think a 100 is absolutely worth it on anything combat-worthy. But Armour? Why would I ever not put on as much as I can support?
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #146 on: 07 April 2020, 18:44:04 »
Yes, SI costs tonnage. Though I still think a 100 is absolutely worth it on anything combat-worthy. But Armour? Why would I ever not put on as much as I can support?

You wouldnt.  While the SI:Armor:Etc. rules could use some rewriting, at some point your not playing a game anyone else recognizes - so Im trying to make sure our ‘outputs’ are both legal, and reasonable.

So slather the armor on, and dont feel bad.

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #147 on: 07 April 2020, 19:07:47 »
I put a limitation on the SI of NPC ships I designed to 30 + (tonnage/10,000) for personal taste myself, to avoid simply building min/maxed designs right out of the gate.

But that was me as a GM,feel free to ignore that limit yourselves.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #148 on: 07 April 2020, 19:18:16 »
I put a limitation on the SI of NPC ships I designed to 30 + (tonnage/10,000) for personal taste myself, to avoid simply building min/maxed designs right out of the gate.

But that was me as a GM,feel free to ignore that limit yourselves.

Ive flirted with some ‘overSI’ designs... in the 4/6 180 SI range, mostly for giggles.  Mass Fraction is -terrible-, leaving no more than 12% for weapons and cargo - yould likely go near naked on Cargo, and accept the cost of collars and large droppers to hang some huge external cargo bays off of it.  I just cant come up with a mission for it...

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #149 on: 07 April 2020, 20:09:25 »
Well, with armour, we could always go with excessive cost. Or maintenance, whatever sense that'd make. Or raise tonnage, because that will still be a small fraction and could easily be converted to extra cargo on anything converted.
hmm.
Or we could treat each military vessel as having a few points extra whenever you calculate a battle - that'd make the remaining points make less of a difference.

Ah, whatever. I'll start lower than is probably ideal, as well.
It's a roleplay, after all. We don't have screen launchers yet, do we? Always puzzled me how the ability to throw sand out the window was only developed after 6 centuries.  ;D
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

 

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