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Which comes out on top, QuadVee or OmniMech?

Notos Prime wins most of the time
6 (24%)
Notos Prime has a slight advantage
3 (12%)
About even
4 (16%)
Summoner B has a slight advantage
8 (32%)
Summoner B wins most of the time
4 (16%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Author Topic: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B  (Read 446 times)

Kojak

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Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« on: 23 March 2020, 17:30:27 »
Two radically different designs, both with an identical Battle Value of 2115. In a one-on-one fight, assuming 3/4 Clan pilots, which one do you put your C-bills on to come out on top?
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Firesprocket

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #1 on: 23 March 2020, 18:18:13 »
The Notos Prime is actually BV 2335.  I'd give the nod to Summoner because of the better range on the LRM-20s and jump jets.  If this is a city fight though I think it becomes a toss up because of pavement movement bonuses that Notos can use to back up directly in reverse to get a +3 mod while Summoner is going to have either jump or take a skid check to get to that same +3 movement mod.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #2 on: 23 March 2020, 20:15:02 »
Terrain is going to matter a great deal.  If sightlines are short and terrain is suitable for wheeled vehicles, the Notos has a shot.  On a marshy plain or something, I think the Summoner takes it.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #3 on: 24 March 2020, 00:54:31 »
The Notos Prime is actually BV 2335.  I'd give the nod to Summoner because of the better range on the LRM-20s and jump jets.  If this is a city fight though I think it becomes a toss up because of pavement movement bonuses that Notos can use to back up directly in reverse to get a +3 mod while Summoner is going to have either jump or take a skid check to get to that same +3 movement mod.

You only have to make a skid check on pavement if you run, make a facing change, and exit that hex in the same turn.  So if it has to turn in the middle, around 5 hexes, then keep going there's some risk but not a huge one.  Remember that the modifier on the PSR depends on how many hexes you've already moved- at 0 hexes there's a negative modifier.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #4 on: 24 March 2020, 00:59:41 »
Also, I'm going to say that something with 5 Clan MPLs tied to a targeting computer is nasty.  This fight really hinges on how quickly the Notos can get to 8 or fewer hexes- once it closes the distance it is likely to shred the Thor.
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #5 on: 24 March 2020, 01:14:00 »
About even, depending on terrain. Summoner has jumps and LRMs, Notos with the Pulse TC combo. If the Notos can get close and stay there, it will chew up the Summoner fast.

Greatclub

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #6 on: 24 March 2020, 03:08:50 »
About even, depending on terrain. Summoner has jumps and LRMs, Notos with the Pulse TC combo. If the Notos can get close and stay there, it will chew up the Summoner fast.

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #7 on: 22 April 2020, 04:54:38 »
Going to give it ever so slightly to the Summoner B on this one. Due to maneuverability, heat management & range.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #8 on: 22 April 2020, 21:08:34 »

Notos wins most of the time.

It takes unusual terrain, like the marshy plain that AW mentioned, for the Summoner to both keep the Notos’s TC/pulse combo at bay while also maintaining LOS for its own LRMs.

In most other terrains, the Summoner is at a severe disadvantage.

In open terrain, like rolling fields, the Notos can close at nine hexes per turn for every five hexes that the Summoner jumps or walks backwards.  The Summoner will only get off two, maybe three, LRM salvos before the Notos’s TC/pulse combo comes into play.  That’s not enough to stop the Notos and its 12.5 tons of armor.

In restricted terrain, like woods/jungle/urban, the ground-restricted Notos may not be able to close as fast against the Summoner’s jump jets.  But the Summoner is unlikely to have LOS at range anyway in those kinds of terrains.  Terrains that limits long-range shots and reduce combat to shorter-range slugfests favor the Notos’s TC/pulse combo.  The Summoner’s missiles, even with the Narc, just can’t compete.  Thanks to the Notos’s turret torso, the poor Summoner can’t even jump to the rear to get away from the Notos’s TC/pulse combo.

It gets even worse if the Summoner doesn’t have rolling mapsheets or a large enough map and gets pinned against a map edge.  Any terrain or map on which the Notos can press its attack or limits the Summoner to mid- to close-range shots favors the Notos.

Clear advantage Notos Prime and Hell’s Horses on most terrains/maps.  Pity the Falcons that take Summoner Bs against them.
« Last Edit: 23 April 2020, 00:06:07 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Re: Fight Night: Notos Prime vs Summoner B
« Reply #9 on: 22 April 2020, 22:37:39 »
Yeah, I'd give it to the Notos.

The LRMs are long range, but even if the Summoner B had the ability to keep the fight there, it has a big issue.  The Clan engineers, in their infinite wisdom, gave the Summoner B's primary weapon a limited ammo bay.  Now, it's actually a pretty decent bay by Clan standards, but it's still shallow enough that if it's firing at the Notos at Long Range for most of the fight (Easily 10+ modifiers, given the speed of both), the Summoner may simply run out of LRM ammo before the Notos's armor is breached.

The Summoner's jump jets are nice, but though they make it harder to be hit, the cheesy MPLs + TC on the Notos offset it completely.  The problem with JJs in this fight is it makes hitting LRMs with the summoner much more difficult, and the Summoner cannot afford to waste ammo on bad shots.

What's worse is that the Notos puts out more damage on average than it takes from the Summoner as soon as the Notos gets within firing range range (12 hexes and less).  That is in addition to the Notos's (marginally) superior armor.  Even with a range bracket advantage (ranges 9-12, 7-4), the Summoner has to maneuver magnificently to get better or equal to-hit numbers thanks to the MPL's targeting computers, and equal to-hit numbers for the Summoner is still a losing proposition at hexes 10-12

As the Summoner I want to be firing at numbers where I have decent to-hit numbers, but I also don't want to take more damage than I inflict.  That means medium range on my LRMs at least, so the Goldilocks zone is hexes 13-14.  That's... pretty dire.  I'd much rather be the Notos in this fight.