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Which comes out on top, the assault or the heavy?

Warhawk D wins most of the time
15 (53.6%)
Warhawk D has a slight advantage
9 (32.1%)
About even
2 (7.1%)
Grand Summoner A has a slight advantage
2 (7.1%)
Grand Summoner A wins most of the time
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Author Topic: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A  (Read 467 times)

Kojak

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Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« on: 25 March 2020, 20:24:03 »
Once again, two deadly Clan designs with nearly identical BVs (2474 vs 2473). In a one-on-one fight, assuming 3/4 Clan pilots, which one do you put your C-bills on to come out on top?
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worktroll

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #1 on: 25 March 2020, 20:35:24 »
Going with Falcon Power here - just. The Warhawk D is heavier, has more armour & IS to clear, but the Grand Summoner has jump-jets, and greater speed. Unless duelling on a ping-pong table, and with a patient pilot, the Grand Summoner has the edge.

The Warhawk's loadout is ... interesting, but lacks the headcapping potential. it'll hurt if it connects, so the GS' pilot's job is not to let it.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #2 on: 25 March 2020, 21:55:35 »
The Masakari has about twice the firepower at most range as the Thor II.  Combined with having a targeting computer for its lasers and autocannon, it's just going to be hitting a lot harder on most rounds.  Unless the Thor II has a lot of easily exploitable terrain, it will get pummeled.
« Last Edit: 25 March 2020, 22:33:17 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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GreekFire

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #3 on: 25 March 2020, 22:24:02 »
The Masikari has about twice the firepower at most range as the Thor II.  Combined with having a targeting computer for its lasers and autocannon, it's just going to be hitting a lot harder on most rounds.  Unless the Thor II has a lot of easily exploitable terrain, it will get pummeled.

Don't really have more to add here. If the Warhawk stands still and just shoots, the Thor II will be in trouble - the TargComp on the Warhawk will always give it better to-hit numbers, and there's no range band the Thor II can exploit to gain the upper hand. The Warhawk also has better crit-padding and endurance.

Barring lucky shots, the Warhawk wins unless the Thor II manages a good backstab.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #4 on: 26 March 2020, 00:16:41 »
The Warhawk has more firepower, armor, and heat dissipation (though it has greater need for the latter as well).  The Grand Summoner’s only consistent advantage is mobility, though it does also possess the only headcapper on the field.  I’d expect the Warhawk to win most of the time.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #5 on: 26 March 2020, 02:19:16 »
Actually, it has more heat dissapation than it needs unless the birdie gets in close and you are holding down the double tap . . . beyond 6 hexes and being careful with the UAC/10?  You can suffer a engine crit, run and still be confortable- but they DO give it good padding.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #6 on: 26 March 2020, 08:13:58 »
It all comes down to terrain. Generally open and the Masakari wins most of the time. Restricted sight-lines favor the Thor II.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #7 on: 26 March 2020, 11:29:17 »
It all comes down to terrain. Generally open and the Masakari wins most of the time. Restricted sight-lines favor the Thor II.

Huh?  Unless I am seeing something wrong even restricted sightlines will not help- the cERLLs have a short range of 8 which is greater than the ERPPC, LRM or LB-10X.  If the Grand DOES get closer it also opens itself up for HE rounds in the ATM- otherwise it is probably throwing Stds.  The Grand can get a max of 45 points damage if it all hits . . . Warhawk D can get 58 with Std rounds and no ERSL- if the Grand jumps to 6 hexes where all its weapons are at short and the Warhawk did not move, the jumping Grand has 6s to hit w/o cluster while the Warhawk has 5s for everything but the ERSL (9) and 8s for HE ATMs (27 damage if all hit).  The Warhawk also has the chance of punching with four 10 point hits . . . the Grand is going to be sanding off with the LRM scatter.  Being crit packed it if does manage to get internal its less likely to cause damage than the Grand might take.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #8 on: 26 March 2020, 11:59:24 »
Actually, it has more heat dissapation than it needs unless the birdie gets in close and you are holding down the double tap . . . beyond 6 hexes and being careful with the UAC/10?  You can suffer a engine crit, run and still be confortable- but they DO give it good padding.
Yeah, heat isn't really a factor for either.  The Warhawk at a running alpha makes 40 and sinks 40, unless I'm doing the math wrong.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #9 on: 26 March 2020, 12:22:50 »
Forgetting double tap?  But that is fine IMO b/c it is covered by not firing the ERSL.  How much does the Grand sink, I could find weapons (ugh, mismatched LRMs) but not sinks.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #10 on: 26 March 2020, 12:29:55 »
Nope, that's counting the double tap.  2xRLL=24, ERSl=2, ATM9=6, 2xUAC10=6, Run=2  24+2+6+6+2=40.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #11 on: 26 March 2020, 12:39:22 »
Ok, I knew I counted it up last night while actually looking at the Warhawk's HMP entry.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #12 on: 26 March 2020, 13:46:15 »
Going for the Warhawk here. The Summoner pilot has to be better, has to play smarter, every fight short of a lucky head cap in order to win.

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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #13 on: 29 March 2020, 17:15:41 »
Huh?  Unless I am seeing something wrong even restricted sightlines will not help- the cERLLs have a short range of 8 which is greater than the ERPPC, LRM or LB-10X.  If the Grand DOES get closer it also opens itself up for HE rounds in the ATM- otherwise it is probably throwing Stds.  The Grand can get a max of 45 points damage if it all hits . . . Warhawk D can get 58 with Std rounds and no ERSL- if the Grand jumps to 6 hexes where all its weapons are at short and the Warhawk did not move, the jumping Grand has 6s to hit w/o cluster while the Warhawk has 5s for everything but the ERSL (9) and 8s for HE ATMs (27 damage if all hit).  The Warhawk also has the chance of punching with four 10 point hits . . . the Grand is going to be sanding off with the LRM scatter.  Being crit packed it if does manage to get internal its less likely to cause damage than the Grand might take.

Restricted sight lines give the Thor a better chance to use it's superior mobility to flank.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #14 on: 29 March 2020, 17:58:28 »
Unless it's on a map with abnormally restricted line of sight (and the Masakari can't find a level 3 hill to climb), the Thor is not going to have an easy time avoiding line of sight until it can get a back shot).
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #15 on: 06 April 2020, 19:33:29 »
WarHawk-D in a landslide.

That thing is so "under-BV'd" compared to the other Walking Death Machine Warhawks.

I think the Summoner has 1 chance & that is find a whole bunch of heavy woods 5 hexes apart from each other.

Maybe that way it could keep the to hit #s high but the Hawk is going to pound it into scrap.   I love that thing.
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Re: Fight Night: Warhawk D vs Grand Summoner A
« Reply #16 on: 07 April 2020, 12:18:53 »
Maybe if the Thor carried smoke rounds in the LRM-5 and used that to help block LOS, it would have a chance.  Still it's hoping for lucky head hits.