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Author Topic: Are there no Hover Artillery units?  (Read 892 times)

Goose

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Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« on: 26 March 2020, 14:27:03 »
Is there a rule forbiding it, or has no-one thought of it?  ???

Maybe is just can't be tube?
Goose
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Sartris

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #1 on: 26 March 2020, 14:32:52 »
There are a pair of AIV hovers - the Hadur and Regulator artillery variant. the Scapha E carries a thumper so it's not against the rules it seems.

Retry

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #2 on: 26 March 2020, 14:33:59 »
There's a version of the Regulator Hovertank and Hadur Fast Support Vehicle sporting Arrow IVs.  Trouble is it's really difficult to fit anything bigger than a Thumper on a regular hovercraft, unless you go superheavy.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #3 on: 26 March 2020, 14:36:41 »
Is there a rule forbiding it, or has no-one thought of it?  ???

Maybe is just can't be tube?

Not many, but there are at least two.

The Regulator has an Arrow IV variant, but only for the Capellans and Canopians.

That's it for pre-Jihad.

Post Jihad?  You have the Hadur.  Technically a Clan Hell's Horses design, but also in the hands of the Falcons, Wolf-in-Exile, Republic of the Sphere, Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth and Mercenaries according to the MUL.

the Scapha E carries a thumper so it's not against the rules it seems.

That is the Thumper cannon, a direct fire only piece, which is why I didn't count it.
« Last Edit: 26 March 2020, 14:38:30 by Nikas_Zekeval »


PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #5 on: 26 March 2020, 15:20:12 »
There is few hover just because it is not so efficient - hovercraft's strength is its speed and it cannot have much weight, but artillery doesn't needs for speed and it needs some weight enough to carry the gun. But anyway nothing prevents hovers to equip an artillery.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #6 on: 26 March 2020, 15:29:21 »
any hover that can find room for an AC20 or gauss rifle can theoretically fit an artillery system (arrow-IV or Thumper)
but as mentioned, there isn't a lot of call for fast moving artillery platforms. one of the reasons there are so few artillery VTOLs as well.

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #7 on: 26 March 2020, 15:58:19 »
There is few hover just because it is not so efficient - hovercraft's strength is its speed and it cannot have much weight, but artillery doesn't needs for speed and it needs some weight enough to carry the gun. But anyway nothing prevents hovers to equip an artillery.

  BT is a game of weapon platforms. Some are better than others, while players are free to design their own uses for the various platforms to suit their style of play, technology limitations or budget. Hovers have a mobility edge, so could have artillery positioned where they are least expected. They also could take advantage of the "shoot and scoot" principle, to avoid counter battery fire or other means of retaliation.

Goose

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #8 on: 26 March 2020, 16:08:48 »
There's a Karnov with a Thumper?! :o
Goose
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #9 on: 26 March 2020, 16:19:13 »
There's a Karnov with a Thumper?! :o

Its listed on the MUL, but the rules require it to land to fire.  The Arrow IV Yellowjacket OTOH can fire while in flight.

Luciora

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #10 on: 26 March 2020, 16:23:11 »
Sure is, I kitbashed one also because of the artillery thread.

There's a Karnov with a Thumper?! :o
« Last Edit: 26 March 2020, 16:47:10 by Luciora »

Goose

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #11 on: 26 March 2020, 16:23:17 »
… require it to land to fire.
I'll take it! :drool:
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #12 on: 26 March 2020, 16:42:39 »
The regulator A4 is really great, its mobility is to get it behind cover to launch indirect fire and get out of town if something big comes looking for it.  I used them to great effect is several games

Zaskar24

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #13 on: 26 March 2020, 17:52:32 »
I have run into the same thing. If you use artillery the way it is supposed to be it is off board by quite a bit so speed is not of the essence. Unless you play a game of hunt the artillery that is.

For the tactical game on a few map sheets a hover with LRMs and semi-guided munitions is the better bet. Frustrate the enemy by having them constantly move. You can also use them to limit access by dropping mines in areas. On a Regulator we are talking 2 LRM-15 and an extra ton of ammo. If only IWM had a good turret with 2 LRM-15. Just a thought there.

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #14 on: 26 March 2020, 18:16:45 »
Its listed on the MUL, but the rules require it to land to fire.

No. Aeros must land to fire non-Arrow arty. VTOLs have never had any such restriction.
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Daryk

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #15 on: 26 March 2020, 18:28:52 »
That's hilarious!  :D

Also, I designed THIS for the ultimate in "shoot and scoot"...

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #16 on: 26 March 2020, 18:38:50 »
Its listed on the MUL, but the rules require it to land to fire.  The Arrow IV Yellowjacket OTOH can fire while in flight.

incorrect.  This was actually a discussion on the forums once upon a time, and got heated enough to get a developer response. (Sometime in, what was it, 2001? 2002?)

The official 'word of god' from the line developers of the time, was that VTOLs, unlike Aerospace units, did not have to land to fire artillery.
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Sartris

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #17 on: 26 March 2020, 19:00:16 »
No. Aeros must land to fire non-Arrow arty. VTOLs have never had any such restriction.

Does... that mean my artillery WiGE can fire while airborne?

Daryk

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #18 on: 26 March 2020, 19:01:53 »
Sounds like it to me...

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #19 on: 26 March 2020, 20:21:52 »
Does... that mean my artillery WiGE can fire while airborne?

Shoot n' scoot, my brother. Shoot. And. Scoot. 8)
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #20 on: 26 March 2020, 21:42:21 »
incorrect.  This was actually a discussion on the forums once upon a time, and got heated enough to get a developer response. (Sometime in, what was it, 2001? 2002?)

The official 'word of god' from the line developers of the time, was that VTOLs, unlike Aerospace units, did not have to land to fire artillery.

I stand corrected on that point.  And now see the Karnov being blown backwards Hollywood style when it fires the Thumper in the air. :D

There is few hover just because it is not so efficient - hovercraft's strength is its speed and it cannot have much weight, but artillery doesn't needs for speed and it needs some weight enough to carry the gun. But anyway nothing prevents hovers to equip an artillery.

Besides shoot and scoot to avoid counter battery fire?  Or unassing if the enemy manages to get some fast movers behind you to make a run for the artillery?

Artillery isn't much use if you outrun its range, and the further out it is, the longer it takes fire to arrive.  Hover and VTOL artillery is something you can assign to relatively fast moving units to give them artillery support that can keep up with their speed.  Rather than requiring the commander to choose between leaving the artillery behind, or limiting his advance to its overall speed.

Hover artillery can also work as a response unit.  Something to send if some part of your troops have a sudden need for more firesupport.

In terms of size, a 50 ton 8/12 hover with an ICE engine (Say, a stripped down Maxim frame and engine) is 24.5 tons, before armor or anything else is added.  Besides Thumper and Arrow IV, that is just enough room to mount a Sniper and two tons of ammo.  True the armor is going to be light, but it is doable.
« Last Edit: 26 March 2020, 21:49:41 by Nikas_Zekeval »

Kovax

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #21 on: 27 March 2020, 11:13:17 »
I stand corrected on that point.  And now see the Karnov being blown backwards Hollywood style when it fires the Thumper in the air. :D
THAT is why you mount the artillery piece facing backwards, so you turn away from the enemy BEFORE firing, and the "shoot" automatically provides acceleration for the "scoot".

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #22 on: 27 March 2020, 11:58:20 »
No. Aeros must land to fire non-Arrow arty. VTOLs have never had any such restriction.

What he said . . . biggest problem is you have to plan your flight paths since it fires out the side.  BUT its funny to use as a surprise . . . its BV is so low . . . and being 17 hexes away from someone for direct fire the first time you let loose.  Bonus if you hit a Omni moving some BA!  Along with the Karnov RL our Marian player likes, its part of the reason folks consider AA when we do random 5k matches.

IMO, we should have a Condor Multi that has a Thumper since that upgrade put the big gun in the chassis facing forward.  Hover artillery should be present, just as we have had cav artillery to accompany the mounted regiments of the past- something fast to keep up with your hovertank battalions and regiments should exist in BTU.
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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #23 on: 27 March 2020, 13:50:54 »
Remember, mechanized BA do NOT get automatically hit by AE - the damage has to be rolled against the transport and then assigned to them just like regular weapons fire. Targeting units carrying mechanized BA accomplishes little more than targeting anyone else, because the odds of hitting the suits are so low, and you don't get to damage every suit, just the ones you hit directly.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #24 on: 27 March 2020, 17:05:48 »
Sometimes people are forget that VTOL is classified as combat vehicle, NOT aero unit.

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #25 on: 27 March 2020, 19:16:32 »
Remember, mechanized BA do NOT get automatically hit by AE - the damage has to be rolled against the transport and then assigned to them just like regular weapons fire. Targeting units carrying mechanized BA accomplishes little more than targeting anyone else, because the odds of hitting the suits are so low, and you don't get to damage every suit, just the ones you hit directly.
AE hit entire hexes right?
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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #26 on: 27 March 2020, 20:03:17 »
Yes, apparently with the exception Weirdo just pointed out...

Maingunnery

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #27 on: 27 March 2020, 20:38:23 »

Found it: TW p227-228
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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #28 on: 27 March 2020, 21:11:31 »
Yeah, the procedure for them taking damage from AE is exactly the same as taking damage from other sources, no exceptions. It's only when the suits dismount that AE becomes so dangerous.
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Daryk

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Re: Are there no Hover Artillery units?
« Reply #29 on: 27 March 2020, 21:20:23 »
I suppose they just move to the far side of whatever is carrying them...