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Author Topic: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs  (Read 616 times)

Iceweb

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Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« on: 31 March 2020, 21:40:33 »
So a common thing is that a mech will jump on top a building.  This often leads to a lot of line of sight to a large area of the battlefield, and the jumper getting legged and crippled on the rooftop. 

So the question is, in the BTU, how do they get military equipment off roofs?  I mean obviously cranes are involved, but when you think of battlemech recovery vehicles, you go to the three flat bed trucks in the TRO.  Is there a canon vehicle ever mentioned that has a crane, or lift equipment?  I'm not sure what type of reinforcements you would need to a standard crane to rate it for 100 tonnes of military equipment?  Is such equipment common on planets?  Are mercenaries expected keep a crane on hand to cover recoveries of this nature?  I would imagine that a crippled mech on a roof would also require a specialized hazmat team to deal with all sorts of fluids that likely leaked out of the mech while waiting for the recovery.  I can't imagine hazmat clean up is less dangerous on a damaged rooftop.  Is there anything else that makes life more difficult about recovering mechs (or other military equipment) off a roof?

Col Toda

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #1 on: 31 March 2020, 22:12:54 »
3 ways get techs to disassemble it so the crane can handle the mass  and lower it to the ground by crane  . After 3085 get a Tunbo Support  VTOL to pick it up and bring it your dropship . Have a properly equipped airship with do the same thing slowly . The first takes forever  , the second takes 10 seconds plus flight time , the third probably 30 seconds and a longer flight . time . Depending on ERA and planet do not know how long it takes to but or hire such .

If you need it fast and are willing  to do damage  do enough CF damage to the building  it can no longer support  the mechs weight and the building  collapses  and the mech takes falling damage and collect it from on top of the rubble.

General308

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #2 on: 31 March 2020, 23:19:05 »
So a common thing is that a mech will jump on top a building.  This often leads to a lot of line of sight to a large area of the battlefield, and the jumper getting legged and crippled on the rooftop. 

So the question is, in the BTU, how do they get military equipment off roofs?  I mean obviously cranes are involved, but when you think of battlemech recovery vehicles, you go to the three flat bed trucks in the TRO.  Is there a canon vehicle ever mentioned that has a crane, or lift equipment?  I'm not sure what type of reinforcements you would need to a standard crane to rate it for 100 tonnes of military equipment?  Is such equipment common on planets?  Are mercenaries expected keep a crane on hand to cover recoveries of this nature?  I would imagine that a crippled mech on a roof would also require a specialized hazmat team to deal with all sorts of fluids that likely leaked out of the mech while waiting for the recovery.  I can't imagine hazmat clean up is less dangerous on a damaged rooftop.  Is there anything else that makes life more difficult about recovering mechs (or other military equipment) off a roof?

No mercenaries are not required to keep equipment to get a mech of a roof.  Then again not having said equipment could mean losing a mech.   They could always try and locate and rent or procure a crane.

AlphaMirage

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #3 on: 31 March 2020, 23:47:11 »
You could also get another jumping mech to just push the damaged mech off. 

Local roads are the local lord's problems.  The mech might take some damage but that is what they are designed to do right?

worktroll

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #4 on: 01 April 2020, 00:45:15 »
Controlled demolition of the building (happening off gameplay turns) would limit the damage to the 'Mech - remember the Toyota Hilux ;)

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Colt Ward

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #5 on: 01 April 2020, 02:27:40 »
Lots of ways to get it down without a crane . . . for one thing you could use steel cables held by your mechs (with hands!  another great reason for hands!)going up to the trapped mech and then roll it off the side.  Your mechs slowly walk it down the side of the building.
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Iceweb

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #6 on: 01 April 2020, 03:58:05 »
My take away from this discussion is that the quickest way to the hearts and minds of the local populace, is through the stomach (with a retractable blade)

Gigastrike

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #7 on: 01 April 2020, 09:13:24 »
Controlled demolition of the building (happening off gameplay turns) would limit the damage to the 'Mech - remember the Toyota Hilux ;)

W.

By "controlled demolition" you mean "concentrated laser fire", right?

Sartris

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #8 on: 01 April 2020, 10:17:52 »
any manner of options are available. i once had a TSM'd Ostsol 8M shoot and then double-punch a hardened structure since the Seraph atop it was being super rude with its double c3i-guided HPPCs.

Kovax

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #9 on: 01 April 2020, 10:25:19 »
If you've got time, doing enough repairs to the 'Mech to allow it to hang by an arm and do a controlled drop off the building might work.  It'll probably fall when it lands, but from one or two levels lower than being pushed off.  If you have a LOT of time, fix the main motive issue in place.

"Controlled demolition" of the building would mean only using "concentrated laser fire" against one wall, so the 'Mech rolls off that side.  Three sides of the building intact, so it might only end up needing 2/3 the cost of the entire building to rebuild the destroyed wall, most of the roof, and half of the interiors of the upper floors.

Another problematical recovery situation is with a 'Mech that loses a leg, engine, or gyro while underwater, and you've got a deadline until the air supply runs out for the MechWarrior inside.

General308

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #10 on: 01 April 2020, 11:57:34 »
The controlled demolitions is a bad ideal.  One that will not stop your mech from taking damage.  Two you are going to get stuck in the ruble and have to dig it out.   Three as a merc unit you are now risking getting accused of using excessive force in a city.  Destroying buildings for no reason is a good way to end up in front of the MRBC.

Colt Ward

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #11 on: 01 April 2020, 12:36:56 »
The controlled demolitions is a bad ideal.  One that will not stop your mech from taking damage.  Two you are going to get stuck in the ruble and have to dig it out.   Three as a merc unit you are now risking getting accused of using excessive force in a city.  Destroying buildings for no reason is a good way to end up in front of the MRBC.

Well . . . blowing a lip of brick/concrete/facade clear to get a obstruction out of the way is one thing . . . collapsing half of a L3 building to create a ramp of rubble the mech could be dragged down is a different story.

But I would say its going to be a odd world that does not have a SkyStar or Garrot style VTOLs, the question really is what sort of time frame you have to carry out the job.
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Sartris

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #12 on: 01 April 2020, 13:39:55 »
The controlled demolitions is a bad ideal.  One that will not stop your mech from taking damage.  Two you are going to get stuck in the ruble and have to dig it out.   Three as a merc unit you are now risking getting accused of using excessive force in a city.  Destroying buildings for no reason is a good way to end up in front of the MRBC.

if it's a choice between not getting the salvage and damaging the salvage to have salvage, i'm shooting the building

Mayor: You shot the building after hostilities ceased!
Merc: Saw his fusion reactor light up *whistles innocently*

General308

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #13 on: 01 April 2020, 13:44:05 »
if it's a choice between not getting the salvage and damaging the salvage to have salvage, i'm shooting the building

Mayor: You shot the building after hostilities ceased!
Merc: Saw his fusion reactor light up *whistles innocently*

Seems to me if you were going to do that you could just roll off the building

Sir Chaos

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #14 on: 01 April 2020, 13:49:23 »
3 ways get techs to disassemble it so the crane can handle the mass  and lower it to the ground by crane  .

You could also use more than one crane.
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Sartris

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #15 on: 01 April 2020, 14:46:35 »
Seems to me if you were going to do that you could just roll off the building

depends on a couple things
1) has the pilot of the potential salvage seen the wisdom of cooperation?
2) if yes, is the building structurally sound enough to risk having a pilot go up it (or do i have a VTOL to perform the same task)?
3) tangentially related: what is my current level of spite on a scale of none to burn the city down?

garhkal

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #16 on: 01 April 2020, 14:56:01 »
If you've got time, doing enough repairs to the 'Mech to allow it to hang by an arm and do a controlled drop off the building might work.  It'll probably fall when it lands, but from one or two levels lower than being pushed off.  If you have a LOT of time, fix the main motive issue in place.

Good point.  Can the mech itself, help?


Another problematical recovery situation is with a 'Mech that loses a leg, engine, or gyro while underwater, and you've got a deadline until the air supply runs out for the MechWarrior inside.

That would worry me more.
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Iceweb

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #17 on: 01 April 2020, 15:42:30 »

3) tangentially related: what is my current level of spite on a scale of none to burn the city down?

When is the spite level not maxed out?

Sartris

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #18 on: 01 April 2020, 16:15:46 »
0-1%* of the time

*pay incentives for leaving previously standing structures as such may change the calculus

Colt Ward

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #19 on: 01 April 2020, 16:20:13 »
"If the price of collateral damage is high enough, you might be able to get paid for bringing ammunition home with you."
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General308

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #20 on: 01 April 2020, 16:32:00 »
depends on a couple things
1) has the pilot of the potential salvage seen the wisdom of cooperation?
2) if yes, is the building structurally sound enough to risk having a pilot go up it (or do i have a VTOL to perform the same task)?
3) tangentially related: what is my current level of spite on a scale of none to burn the city down?

This is why you keep a dispossessed MechWarrior on staff.     They will see the Wisdom

Sartris

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #21 on: 01 April 2020, 16:48:45 »
Crippled enemy units I plan to relieve them of are generally not piloted by my dispossessed mechwarriors

Daryk

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #22 on: 01 April 2020, 18:44:16 »
"If the price of collateral damage is high enough, you might be able to get paid for bringing ammunition home with you."
+1 for Maxim 28!  :thumbsup:

Simon Landmine

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #23 on: 01 April 2020, 20:26:19 »
Controlled demolition of the building (happening off gameplay turns) would limit the damage to the 'Mech - remember the Toyota Hilux ;)

Yeah, but that was a Hilux, not something flimsy like a 'Mech!

+1 for Maxim 28!  :thumbsup:

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Daryk

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #24 on: 01 April 2020, 20:29:33 »
Heh... Tayler really covered most of the bases with that book...  ^-^

General308

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #25 on: 01 April 2020, 21:36:44 »
Just use your jumpjets and get off.

Colt Ward

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #26 on: 03 April 2020, 11:39:11 »
Just use your jumpjets and get off.

I can see how that happens from RP . . . its either-

*in redneck voice* "Hey y'all, watch this!"

or

*drunk sounding tech*  "And sthen sthat mechwarrior bet me a case of Glengarry scotch I could not get sthat damn mech off without fancy equipment.  Joke's on him *hiccup*, it shtill has functioning jump jets, they are justh going to push it over the edge when I press this button's remote."
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BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Getting Meks (and other stuff) off roofs
« Reply #27 on: 04 April 2020, 09:09:10 »
If collateral damage needs to be minimized, get some cranes to pick the unit up, either road cranes or VTOLs would work.  In and out of universe they're strong enough to pick up stuff as heavy as a battlemech from great heights.
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