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Author Topic: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes  (Read 448 times)

Alan Grant

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Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« on: 05 April 2020, 08:48:35 »
I'm looking for an infantry support weapon that checks a certain set of boxes.

1. Suppressing Fire (pinning down an enemy over time, not just for a brief moment, such as suppressing an enemy trench or occupied building so friendly units can move)
2. Anti-Armor (some chance of damaging or knocking out an enemy BA, vehicle or 'mech)
3. Area denial (can be used to discourage enemy movement across a specific piece of ground, used to for example, prevent enemy reinforcements from joining their forward troops, or splitting a single enemy line into two parts by engaging the middle, so that one side can't reinforce the other)

Thoughts?

I can think of three different weapon systems that are excellent at these. That's not what I'm after. I'm looking for an a single infantry support weapon system that can be reasonably effective at all three.

BTW this is for a RPG style writing game, but a tactical/strategic game that incorporates whole platoons/companies/battalions while incorporating most of if not all of the table-top game rules.
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #1 on: 05 April 2020, 09:06:29 »
The characteristics describe artillery, really.  For that, take your pick.

Starfury

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #2 on: 05 April 2020, 10:39:38 »
Mortars, specifically infantry or if TO allows mech mortars as a field gun.  Flamers are another obvious one. Grenade launchers, autocannon loaded with flak or other shells, LB-X autocannons, fluid guns, artillery, Iinferno missiles, incendiary rounds, mines, support pulse lasers, Mandrake needlers, machine guns, LRMs, and country music.

Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #3 on: 05 April 2020, 12:14:55 »
That last one is hilarious!  :D

AlphaMirage

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #4 on: 05 April 2020, 14:02:40 »
I'd say grenade launchers probably fit all three followed by rocket launchers and mortars.  Each can carry different ammunition specific to whatever the threat is.

dgorsman

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #5 on: 05 April 2020, 14:03:02 »
Or a noisy orange hedge (aka a bunch of Highlanders).

More seriously, what have you already looked at, rejected, and why?  Otherwise we're just throwing lawn darts at each other in the dark here.
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RunandFindOut

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #6 on: 05 April 2020, 14:48:14 »
Otherwise we're just throwing lawn darts at each other in the dark here.
As someone who has done that it's not as fun as you imagine when you are kids.  And jousting from dirtbikes just ends in trips to the hospital.
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Weirdo

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #7 on: 05 April 2020, 15:38:53 »
Checking the rules:

1: AE is your best bet, which means field artillery, since infantry don't get any other AE weapons. Failing that, any support weapon with the burst fire tag will do a fair job. My advice is whatever burst-fire weapon you have with the best range. All infantry burst weapons add 1d6, so the raw punch if the gun is irrelevant for this step(though it might help for steps 2 or 3). Considering that, my advice would be to try and suppress the infantry from a distance that they might not be able to do the same in return.

2: Literally any weapon in the game capable of damaging armor. You bring enough or shoot for long enough, your target WILL die.

3: This cannot be easily answered, as we need to know: who do you play against most often, and how much damage does it take to worry them? Only after we know that can we answer this question.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #8 on: 05 April 2020, 16:57:14 »
Artillery Cannon seems what you want then, capable of deliver devastate impact against the enemy infantry and keep them at bay, able to threat armors, and is area of effect weapon. The fuel-air amunition in Battletech universe is more effective against armor and is more wide(in the real worlds it is opposite, that fuel-air bomb cause only little damage against heavy armored object and is have smaller area of effect), and there would be enough atmosphere if you ever think about to deploy the infantry in the first place so there is no vacuum to block it.

edit: Ah, they can't use the other type of ammo. Still normal ammo is quite effective.

Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #9 on: 05 April 2020, 17:02:49 »
As Weirdo said, AOE is the most important factor.  There's only so many ways to get that.

Alan Grant

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #10 on: 05 April 2020, 17:17:37 »
I hadn't ruled out anything. I had thought mortars, but there's a lot of infantry support weapons out there and I am not an expert. I wanted to see if there was an alternative I was overlooking it.

For instance, someone said grenade launchers, I hadn't really given much thought to that for some reason and I probably should.

I really wasn't thinking arty or field guns (Someone mentioned arty cannons, to be honest I hadn't thought of arty cannons at all, maybe I should look into that more, good tip). Thinking front line infantry here, probably mechanized dropped off by an IFV or Karnov, supporting a push in rough or urban terrain, (and to answer that third question) preferably overrunning static defenses, armor with few/no good anti-infantry weapons and lesser quality infantry or even support troops like combat engineers or enemy field artillery.

That's on the offense.

I put area denial in there because none of the other units I tend to pick (e.g. model mechs, vees) focus on that at all, and I realized I had ignored that particular tool in the toolbox, but I am unlikely to change my 'mech/vee preferences. So I thought that could be a role/function I could slot my infantry into. I've definitely used infantry to secure/hold/defend an important choke point before. On defense that's the most common thing I do with them. But I felt like adding an extra dose of area denial capability could be extremely helpful, especially in defensive scenarios.

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Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #11 on: 05 April 2020, 17:35:38 »
Infantry mortars aren't great, though.  I don't really know why they're so nerfed, but they are.

Infantry grenade launchers are really only good for damage.  They have the same range as Auto-Rifles, and if you use two per squad, they reduce your movement.

For area denial, you might consider Combat Engineers, which can emplace mines.

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #12 on: 05 April 2020, 18:57:06 »
If you don't want field guns, then you want burst weapons, the longest-ranged and hardest-hitting possible. That will give you suppression, anti-armor, and against all but tougher mechs, area denial.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #13 on: 05 April 2020, 19:35:30 »
For that, the Support Pulse Laser (Heavy) is probably your best bet.  While its damage is close the Support Machine Gun, it has twice the range (4/8/12 vice 2/4/6).

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #14 on: 05 April 2020, 19:52:06 »
There you go. Support Pulse Lasers combined with Auto Rifles will get you the burst and range to suppress, the hurt and range to kill armored units(assuming tactics), and the hurt and the this-is-an-infantry-unit to make other units think twice about entering their threat range. All without cheesing out with Mausers or whatever that one cheesy Davion gun is.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #15 on: 05 April 2020, 19:55:32 »
They haven't fixed the Federated-Barrett M42B... it's still listed with the Heavy Burst special in the Standard list instead of the Support one.  I reported that errata a LONG time ago...

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #16 on: 05 April 2020, 19:56:30 »
Either they decided it should stay, or you need to bump.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #17 on: 05 April 2020, 19:57:39 »
Let me go double check...

Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #18 on: 05 April 2020, 20:02:18 »
Ok, I reported the Errata in 2016, and upgraded to a rules question in 2018, which is currently marked as "Research"...  One bump coming right up...

Col Toda

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #19 on: 05 April 2020, 23:03:46 »
All the options given  have a really  finite  duration .  Mech scale light machine  guns as a field guns is a good  option .  It has a range of 6 the weapon is only 1/2 ton so think a single platoon can use a couple of them and a ton of ammo lasts a while  . Vehicle grenade launcher maybe better with far shorter  duration  .  You did not state how long .  Support  ;Dsrs mentioned have greater hitting  power but the unit carries only so many power packs.

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #20 on: 05 April 2020, 23:21:32 »
Neither option you list is legal as a field gun.

Support Pulse Lasers have infinite ammo, because this is an infantry unit and we're not in the AToW forum.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #21 on: 06 April 2020, 03:50:34 »
The Support Machine Gun is essentially the LMG.  You can have two per squad.

Weirdo

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #22 on: 06 April 2020, 09:17:50 »
Very true, we just have to be careful not to confuse people by implying they're field guns, which is the impression conveyed by Col Toda's post.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Alan Grant

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #23 on: 06 April 2020, 12:00:00 »
There you go. Support Pulse Lasers combined with Auto Rifles will get you the burst and range to suppress, the hurt and range to kill armored units(assuming tactics), and the hurt and the this-is-an-infantry-unit to make other units think twice about entering their threat range. All without cheesing out with Mausers or whatever that one cheesy Davion gun is.

Yet another weapon I haven't really looked into. Thanks for the suggestion Daryk and Weirdo.

Side-question, have we ever seen art for the Support Pulse Laser? Not vital just curious.
« Last Edit: 06 April 2020, 13:18:44 by Alan Grant »
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #24 on: 06 April 2020, 19:42:52 »
Not off the top of my head, or my quick scan of AToW art, and Sarna offers no pictures.  Combat Equipment might have had one, but I have go digging for that...

Crimson Dawn

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #25 on: 06 April 2020, 22:02:18 »
That last one is hilarious!  :D

I think that may be a violation of the Ares Convention.

truetanker

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #26 on: 16 April 2020, 18:08:07 »
I'm looking for an infantry support weapon that checks a certain set of boxes.

1. Suppressing Fire (pinning down an enemy over time, not just for a brief moment, such as suppressing an enemy trench or occupied building so friendly units can move)
2. Anti-Armor (some chance of damaging or knocking out an enemy BA, vehicle or 'mech)
3. Area denial (can be used to discourage enemy movement across a specific piece of ground, used to for example, prevent enemy reinforcements from joining their forward troops, or splitting a single enemy line into two parts by engaging the middle, so that one side can't reinforce the other)

Alan?

Sounds like you want the Federated-Barrett M42B Rifle System.

Game stats : Rifle (Federated-Barrett M42B) IS (C) Small / Standard (B)B 1 1.02 6.0 kg / 0.24 kg (50/5) 1

Needs 1 Trooper, has Burst abilities, can do 1 full damage against BAR 10 armor ( that's mech scale ) and has Range 1 or 3 tabletop hexes. Lightweight with 10 shots per magazine clip, uses 5 round salvos.

So :

1 - check LMG Mode
2 - check Standard Mode
3 - check Compact Grenade ( Standard Mode )

Winner? Up to you.

TT
« Last Edit: 16 April 2020, 18:13:51 by truetanker »
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Daryk

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Re: Infantry support weapon that checks three boxes
« Reply #27 on: 16 April 2020, 18:36:21 »
It's also the single most broken weapon in the entire game system...  It's on the STANDARD list instead of the Support one, so you could technically just arm all your troopers with it.  In AToW, it has swappable barrels, and the LMG mode (which gains the Heavy Burst special) doesn't have the grenade launcher, which is what gives it high damage.  They basically blended all the modes of the weapon and took the best characteristics of each.  And THEN put it in the Standard list instead of Support with the rest of the Machine Guns.  ::)

If you're up for this kind of cheese, swap one of them per squad for a Heavy Grenade Launcher.  It'll boost the damage a bit more with no movement penalty.