Author Topic: Shrapnel Issue #1 Sniper Rifles for TW (Read 27938 times)

Hellraiser · « **Reply #30 on:** 31 May 2020, 17:24:02 »

Well I have not read the article yet so I don't know the fluff.

But based on the 1E crew of the Barton & the name "Yuan Ling" I don't think either of those 7 range beasts will get retconed into my custom infantry.

I do love the name "Hammel Marksman", LOL, Did someone sneak in a SW reference?

I assume the Thorshammer is a Lyran rifle, so that is an option for my old FedCom mercs infantry.

I am curious what the fluff is behind the Wilimton trio of models & the FNF (SLDF)

Code: [Select]

Name			Shots	AP	BD	TW Dmg	No RLF	Crew AToW Rng	TW Range
Thorshammer		10	4	4	0.28		1	175	6
Wilimton RS-17 (MD)	10	5	6	0.53		1	175	6
Wilimton RS-17 (Str)	10	5	6	0.53		1	170	6
FNF-J12 (SLDF)		8	4	6	0.34	0.42	1	175	6

trboturtle · « **Reply #31 on:** 31 May 2020, 18:42:52 »

Quote from: Hellraiser on 31 May 2020, 17:24:02

Well I have not read the article yet so I don't know the fluff.

Well, I wrote the article, so... ;)

Quote

But based on the 1E crew of the Barton & the name "Yuan Ling" I don't think either of those 7 range beasts will get retconed into my custom infantry.

The idea was to expand the selection of weapons beyond the ones found in the AToW handbook. I never really considered them for the Battletech battlefield, and I'm reading the thread with interest.

Quote

I do love the name "Hammel Marksman", LOL, Did someone sneak in a SW reference?

To be honest... er, no, it never occurred to me on a conscious level.... :-[

Quote

I assume the Thorshammer is a Lyran rifle, so that is an option for my old FedCom mercs infantry.

It is.

Quote

I am curious what the fluff is behind the Wilimton trio of models & the FNF (SLDF)

The Wilimton (MD) was used by the Manei Domini troopers and is built for their use. The Wilimton (Str) is for those who aren't MDs. The FNF is from Phil Lee's Story, Whispering Death, and I thought it should be included.

Craig

Maingunnery · « **Reply #32 on:** 31 May 2020, 18:51:28 »

Quote from: trboturtle on 31 May 2020, 18:42:52

Well, I wrote the article, so... ;)

Thanks they really filled a niche that required something. :thumbsup:

Anymore of such useful articles?

Daryk · « **Reply #33 on:** 31 May 2020, 19:05:22 »

Thanks for weighing in trboturtle! :thumbsup:

For everyone else, as I mentioned earlier, I was trying to limit how much I shared here to limit the amount of quoted material. Seriously, go check out Shrapnel #1! :thumbsup:

Hellraiser · « **Reply #34 on:** 31 May 2020, 23:03:03 »

Quote from: trboturtle on 31 May 2020, 18:42:52

To be honest... er, no, it never occurred to me on a conscious level.... :-[

The Wilimton (MD) was used by the Manei Domini troopers and is built for their use. The Wilimton (Str) is for those who aren't MDs. The FNF is from Phil Lee's Story, Whispering Death, and I thought it should be included.

Well I took one look at it & thought, I think someone is playing word games here, LOL. Guess not :)

Well a Blakist gun probably isn't getting retconed into my Merc infantry either, lol.
Maybe there is hope for the Mjolnir if its old enough ;)

Daryk · « **Reply #35 on:** 01 June 2020, 02:28:57 »

Its availability is X-C-C, so I think it's probably is old enough. If not, the Liberator Mark V and Hammel are C-C-C.

Maelwys · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 June 2020, 09:34:42 »

How do they compare to the Minolta 9000, which is fluffed as the ultimate sniper rifle made for the Death Commandos?

Auberan · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 June 2020, 10:46:07 »

All are pretty much better in regards to range, though there are only three that match its penetration, and one of those is an anti-material rifle.

The Capellan one is the best ranged one by far though, and is fluffed as being used by their special forces and has mention of a Death Commando maybe using one, so it's either a replacement, or they use the 9000 for when they need more penetration over range.

Daryk · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 June 2020, 14:50:57 »

Paul came back pretty quickly with the answer on the to-hit bonuses: they do NOT translate to the TW level (whew!).

Maelwys · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 June 2020, 09:38:14 »

Quote from: Auberan on 12 June 2020, 10:46:07

All are pretty much better in regards to range, though there are only three that match its penetration, and one of those is an anti-material rifle.

The Capellan one is the best ranged one by far though, and is fluffed as being used by their special forces and has mention of a Death Commando maybe using one, so it's either a replacement, or they use the 9000 for when they need more penetration over range.

Yeah, kind of having to turn my head sideways to figure out if these fit with the other sniper rifles in game or not.

Maingunnery · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 June 2020, 12:21:05 »

Quote from: Maelwys on 13 June 2020, 09:38:14

Yeah, kind of having to turn my head sideways to figure out if these fit with the other sniper rifles in game or not.

Maybe the Minolta 9000 is more silent? Because these anti-material rifles certainly aren't.

Daryk · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 June 2020, 13:50:51 »

Silencers feature on several of the Sniper Rifles yes, (and no, not the Barton AMR).

monbvol · « **Reply #42 on:** 13 June 2020, 14:21:00 »

I have felt that the sniper rifles in RPG stats were always a bit underwhelming and many were criminally short ranged for sniper rifles.

Maingunnery · « **Reply #43 on:** 13 June 2020, 14:22:31 »

Quote from: Daryk on 13 June 2020, 13:50:51

Silencers feature on several of the Sniper Rifles yes, (and no, not the Barton AMR).

Silence can be relative, it could be that the Minolta 9000 is silence at very short range, which could be very handy in a city.

Maelwys · « **Reply #44 on:** 14 June 2020, 10:01:45 »

The Minolta got reduced weight, reduced penalties for unsupported fire and no need for a simple action to chamber the next round in Lostech for MW3.

I mean, as it is, the Yuan Ling has better availability, the same AP/BD, Longer Range, same ammo count, costs the same (though its ammo is more expensive) and the Yuan Ling comes with its own night-vision scope.

So why the Minolta then?

Daryk · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 June 2020, 10:08:55 »

As presented, I think you might be able to install a silencer on the YUÀN LÍNG...

Maelwys · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 June 2020, 10:42:52 »

Sure. Or a scope on the Minolta. But you still have to ask yourself, why take the Minolta at all?

The Lancelot as well. Lower tech, lower availability (and available in all eras), lower legality, same damage, much greater range, cost is less than half, weight is the same as Minolta, which took endo-steel to build, and has a superscope on it.

I mean, nice in theory, but sort of reminds me of when HB:HD was released the and M61A and M42B were stat'd and they just blew everything away.

edit
changed the second availability to legality
/edit

Daryk · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 June 2020, 10:48:14 »

And they still haven't fixed the M42B... it's the only "Standard" weapon with the Heavy Burst special.

Maelwys · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 June 2020, 18:38:23 »

Does it get that by trying to mix up the standard rifle with the support rifle version or something?

Daryk · « **Reply #49 on:** 15 June 2020, 04:09:42 »

It combines the grenade launcher for the rifle configuration with the burst value of the machine gun. It should either be listed as a support weapon, or lose Heavy Burst (several other "standard" rifles with attached grenade launchers do similar damage).

Maelwys · « **Reply #50 on:** 15 June 2020, 21:09:09 »

Sounds fun. Doubt they're going to shift them to support, since that would negate a couple of the conventional infantry units from TR3085.

Daryk · « **Reply #51 on:** 16 June 2020, 03:17:07 »

Ideally, they'd stat out both versions of the weapon, and use two them configured as MGs for Support weapons.

Maelwys · « **Reply #52 on:** 17 June 2020, 07:04:31 »

Hadn't considered that. That would work. Since they split Inferno/non-inferno ammo, splitting HMG/Rifle would seem to make sense as well.

Daryk · « **Reply #53 on:** 17 June 2020, 14:20:05 »

Exactly. There are far more elegant solutions to the problem than merging everything (including the machine gun!) into the rifle stat block.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #54 on:** 20 June 2020, 14:02:23 »

Quote from: Daryk on 15 June 2020, 04:09:42

It combines the grenade launcher for the rifle configuration with the burst value of the machine gun. It should either be listed as a support weapon, or lose Heavy Burst (several other "standard" rifles with attached grenade launchers do similar damage).

Random thought & curiosity questions since I don't have the RPG stats.

Are we 100% sure it just gave the value of both?

Is it possible they averaged the values? Like 50/50 per platoon?

What happens if you had them as 2 separate stats & then have 5 of the GL version w/ 2 of the MG version as "support" weapons.

Don't they lack the E for crew so we would still end up with full movement?

In the RPG stats are the 2 versions noticeably different range values?

monbvol · « **Reply #55 on:** 20 June 2020, 15:13:21 »

The M42B RPG wise is one weapon where you can take 20 seconds and change it from a Close In mode to a Support Machine gun mode or something between those that RPG wise falls under the Small Arms skill.

There seem to be some parts changing involved too because the Close In configuration is 1kg lighter than the standard mode despite having more gadgets integrated in that mode.

Off hand I'd guess barrel with the reduced AP/BD ratings and reduced range, possibly even the bolt action/trigger with the burst rate change, and a different magazine for the support version.

I suspect someone swapped what was supposed to go where and never corrected it.

So yeah it is all the same weapon.

Daryk · « **Reply #56 on:** 20 June 2020, 18:21:23 »

Lacking "E" has no effect on the movement penalty imposed by having two support weapons per squad.

I posted the errata for this years ago.

Wolf72 · « **Reply #57 on:** 01 July 2020, 19:27:06 »

So as long as the crew is 1 or 1E, each trooper can have one, right?

Total Side note: quick someone make a Star Wars blaster variant!

Anyway:

30 Troopers w/ 30 Rifles: sweeeet.

Cobra was ahead of its time when they equipped their troopers!

Daryk, that table copy/pasted (unformatted) quite nicely! You are awesome, even if you trade your PPC's in for Blazers!

Ugh, time to read through and add in mass for rifle and ammo! b/c ... I just need to.

[edit] Also, no idea about the extended clip: is that simply 2x the ammo? also (simply) the extra mass would be the weight of another ammo clip?

Daryk · « **Reply #58 on:** 01 July 2020, 19:40:42 »

Yep! 1 or 1E means Sniper Rifles for ALL your friends (just ask the Taurians…)!

I'm glad the table formatting worked for you! :thumbsup:

And yes, Blazer Cannons for ALL MY FRIENDS! :D

Wolf72 · « **Reply #59 on:** 01 July 2020, 19:48:59 »

just edited above, to late it seems:

What are the basic mass/weight stats for an extended ammo clip? simply 2x shots and mass?