Author Topic: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?  (Read 13727 times)

Sartris

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #30 on: 22 January 2021, 10:20:45 »
the grasshopper isn't flashy but it's a tank. the kintaro has heat issues but it can do big damage

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Charistoph

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #31 on: 22 January 2021, 10:24:44 »
Not really sure the Kintaro or Grasshopper would be considered mediocre.

They're not on my list of initial go-tos for top tier or basement bin.  That is part of what applies the mediocre tag to them.

And honestly, if I want a missile boat, I prefer LRMs as the primary, not SRMs.  But maybe that's just a me thing.
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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #32 on: 23 January 2021, 23:45:40 »
Many moons ago--in the days of yore-- I played in a "maligned 'Mechs" campaign. Players got to basically choose machines per the descriptions of TRO 3025, subject to group discussion and approval. So, while players even then listed a SHD or GOL as a suboptimal design, the lore never intimated that. So, we ran a lance originaally comprised of a Whitworth, Blackjack, Quickdraw, and Charger. At different times, a Clint, Vulcan, Scorpion, BattleTechnology Battleaxe, Stardate Flea, and of course the redoubtable Banshee eventually were seen.

It turned out a lot of designs that were listed as poor actually aren't that bad. If nothing else, it made individual players really find ways and means where they could excel. Even with the original quirks list (from Dragon magazine, printed on yellow pages, with the backlit shadowy horned knight on the cover; Issue 166) in play in a later iteration of the original campaign, most of the designs are not truly terrible.

The original lance listed above can put out some serious close-range hurt on two standard maps. Even at long range it can hold its own. Though it was a campaign, the battles were generally evenly matched. A CGR can do some bad things in a 200ish tonne lance scrum. And it's hard to stay away from the massed medium lasers of that lance on on the 1x2 playing fields seen all to often back then.

Now, I'm a Regulan/Free Worlder through and through, but I got an enduring love of my old PlasTech Blackjack during that campaign, as well as the Clint and Banshee. A well-run BNC-3E can take apart a BLR-1G if played right (just as an RFL-3N is a superb dueling machine if one is willing to invest the time to figure out the nuances). Remember, its not always the speed of the car in the race, its often the relative insanity of the driver.

Well, if anyone here gets a chance to play through such a campaign, it is entirely worth it if done even reasonable right. Give it a shot.
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ckosacranoid

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #33 on: 24 January 2021, 17:03:53 »
Your lance is made up of 4 locusts with the twin form 5 and med laser and one ton of armor.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #34 on: 24 January 2021, 20:24:48 »
Since mediocre doesn't mean "bad" or crappy, it means "ordinary, common, average, u remarkable", I'd use the most dirt common designs from the period. I go back to the first edition of the merc handbook, where the original 52 designs were given "availability ratings" based on their commonality in the 3025 marketplace.
Some designs were easy (4+ on a 2d6 roll) some were harder (10 or 11+).going with a lance made up of 4+ mechs; that being the easiest and therefore most common designs;

Crusader
Dervish
Phoenix Hawk
Locust ( or Wasp or Stinger, all equally common, but the Locust at least has speed)

massey

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #35 on: 24 January 2021, 20:35:10 »
Your lance is made up of 4 locusts with the twin form 5 and med laser and one ton of armor.

That just means I have an 8/12 Archer.  Not too shabby, especially if I rely almost solely on indirect fire.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #36 on: 24 January 2021, 23:45:03 »
I had a 4th SW era Kurita unit that could have been made into a 3rd SW one.

Hatchetman-3F ( they did capture some to make the -5K )
Whithworth--1
Jenner-F
Panther-8Z

Yeah this was from a defuncted unit that I later made better.

From the pre-cursor of the Battle for Fallon II, classic Hatcheman vs. Hatchetman fight, 42nd Avalon Hussars vs Ryuken-ni, circa mid-'50's.

I did win that fight... was very hard!

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Col Toda

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #37 on: 25 January 2021, 01:49:03 »
4 Goliath quads w ammo in center torso.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #38 on: 26 January 2021, 14:47:40 »
I'm glad this thread had a lot of interest. And at least it has potential. For me the idea is that such a lance would be up against all sorts of opponents: 'mechs, vehicles, infantry. No reason to assume they wouldn't.

As for salvaging rides and trading in, that is a maybe. I would assume that we would see things such as forced withdraw in effect, which would mean panicked 'mechwarriors would retreat before losing their 'mech. So the 'mech they have is one they will be using for a long time.

Colt Ward

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #39 on: 26 January 2021, 15:11:14 »
Which is why I suggested what I did . . . for most folks, it is going to be 'mediocre' if the lance is not good at killing other mechs.  The Quickdraw and Shadow Hawk are ok, but do not offer huge armor punching hits that can quickly disable a opposing mech.  As a bit of a joke, the biggest hit in the lance I offered was in a weak light- a primitive Commando- making it the glass cannon of the force.
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MarauderD

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #40 on: 26 January 2021, 17:32:49 »
Many moons ago--in the days of yore-- I played in a "maligned 'Mechs" campaign. Players got to basically choose machines per the descriptions of TRO 3025, subject to group discussion and approval. So, while players even then listed a SHD or GOL as a suboptimal design, the lore never intimated that. So, we ran a lance originaally comprised of a Whitworth, Blackjack, Quickdraw, and Charger. At different times, a Clint, Vulcan, Scorpion, BattleTechnology Battleaxe, Stardate Flea, and of course the redoubtable Banshee eventually were seen.

It turned out a lot of designs that were listed as poor actually aren't that bad. If nothing else, it made individual players really find ways and means where they could excel. Even with the original quirks list (from Dragon magazine, printed on yellow pages, with the backlit shadowy horned knight on the cover; Issue 166) in play in a later iteration of the original campaign, most of the designs are not truly terrible.

Just googled that issue of Dragon Magazine and scanned through it.  It had a review of the original Wing Commander from back in 1991.  What a time machine!

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #41 on: 26 January 2021, 18:14:59 »
From the random opponent table of my 1st edition mechwarrior rpg book.

I Choose:
Wolverine
Enforcer
Valkyrie
Stinger

Since back then I tended to be a Fed Suns guy.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #42 on: 26 January 2021, 18:57:42 »
Well, at least they all jump!  :)

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #43 on: 27 January 2021, 10:23:03 »
I had a 4th SW era Kurita unit that could have been made into a 3rd SW one.

Hatchetman-3F ( they did capture some to make the -5K )
Whithworth--1
Jenner-F
Panther-8Z

I'd actually rate the WTH-1 as "good" for its tonnage, but its restrictive tonnage tends to limit its popularity.  By firepower, armor, and most other criteria, it's essentially a slower Dervish at 15 tons less weight.
The JR7-F qualifies as a mini-"muchkin" design.  It doesn't get much better that that in the Light class, arguably aside from a Wolfhound or Mongoose.

On the other hand, both the Panther and Hatchetman are somewhat mediocre for various reasons; not actually "bad",  but not optimal by any means.

Church14

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #44 on: 27 January 2021, 10:26:36 »
A relentlessly average and unexciting succession war lance....

Whitworth
Vindicator
Panther
Enforcer

All 4/6/4 with decent armor, some long range capability, some short range capabilities, some ammo dependency, and heat issues if they want to jump. I’m not excited or disappointed seeing any in one of my lances.

Only issue is no real anti-infantry weaponry. Have to spray missiles or avoid them. Unless there is a flamer/MG toting variant of one of these

Crimson Dawn

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #45 on: 27 January 2021, 10:42:50 »
Well the original vindicator had a machine gun but had to have it removed due to a mandate that not all of the parts could be made by the same company so they replaced it with a small laser.  Not sure if that has an official record sheet or not though and that would be insanely rare (though I suppose one could mod a standard vindicator back to that model if they wanted to).

There is also a whitworth with a flamer but it is a rare Amaris version and I think it is also one that uses SRMs.  Unlikely to see but it does exist.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #46 on: 27 January 2021, 10:49:58 »
Well, Small Laser for Flamer works . . . what about the -1SIC?
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Sartris

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #47 on: 27 January 2021, 11:01:21 »
Well the original vindicator had a machine gun but had to have it removed due to a mandate that not all of the parts could be made by the same company so they replaced it with a small laser.  Not sure if that has an official record sheet or not though and that would be insanely rare (though I suppose one could mod a standard vindicator back to that model if they wanted to).

does not exist as a record sheet that i'm aware of. jk. it's the VND-1X. i forgot that was the MG one. it was used by both the CC and SIC until the end of the clan invasion

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There is also a whitworth with a flamer but it is a rare Amaris version and I think it is also one that uses SRMs.  Unlikely to see but it does exist.

The WTH-0 (it earned the name señor zippo in an amaris campaign i ran) was used by the taurians until it disappeared sometime before 2900. the WTH-1S (srm boat) served until around the end of the clan invasion.

« Last Edit: 27 January 2021, 11:21:45 by Sartris »

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Church14

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #48 on: 27 January 2021, 12:25:08 »
Well, sounds like my lance is a mediocre (rimshot) hit.

Make the vindicator the -1X and the rest the common variants.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #49 on: 27 January 2021, 13:04:55 »
The JR7-F qualifies as a mini-"muchkin" design.  It doesn't get much better that that in the Light class, arguably aside from a Wolfhound or Mongoose.


Though it might be a little more vulnerable in that lance of 4/6/4 movers.
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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #50 on: 27 January 2021, 19:00:10 »
The Fire Javelin is on par with the Uparmored Jenner, but yeah, I'd give the edge to the Jenner...

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #51 on: 27 January 2021, 20:35:58 »
I'm always seemingly getting screwed with ammo explosions with the standard Jenner, but when I found the F variant, I was hooked!

Same profile, same damage and more armor? Yes please! I hopped, literally, around with my mini, all painted in shiny blood red! Take that you Davion...  xp

Yeah, later I had another Hatchetman vs. Hatchetman fight, more of a rematch... that was a hard won fight I tell you.

TT



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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #52 on: 27 January 2021, 23:52:37 »
ASN-21 Assassin
WTH-1 Whitworth
CLNT-2-3T Clint
CDA-2A Cicada

Seems like a healthy mix of mediocrity. I'm game.
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abou

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #53 on: 28 January 2021, 08:44:16 »
Might have to come up with a BV amount and run mediocre lances against each other.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #54 on: 29 January 2021, 19:14:55 »
Well, at least they all jump!  :)

Funny, as soon as i read that, House of Pain "Jump Around" started going through my head.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #55 on: 29 January 2021, 19:58:18 »
LOL!  Jump... JUMP!  :D

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #56 on: 08 February 2021, 10:38:51 »
ASN-21 Assassin
WTH-1 Whitworth
CLNT-2-3T Clint
CDA-2A Cicada

Seems like a healthy mix of mediocrity. I'm game.
I suspect that this is one of those cases where the whole is less than the sum of its parts.  The WTH-1 is going to hold back the entire lance, due to its far lower movement rate.  Having one 'Mech faster than the rest of the lance is often a good idea, allowing for flanking or scouting options, but having one boat anchor tied to the lance REALLY limits things.  You can't just run away without leaving your slowest member to his/her/its fate.  The rest of the lance would make a good scout-hunter group.

I can actually picture one or more of the Mechwarriors being content with the mix, since the old horror story saying goes "You don't need to be faster than the monster, just faster than the slowest in your group".  That's why you bring the annoying fat kid or the bubble-headed bleach blonde on the outing to the cemetery on Halloween.....or bring the WTH-1 on the mission behind enemy lines.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #57 on: 08 February 2021, 10:50:11 »
In IntroTech games, the Whitworth is reasonable unit in right kind of lances. Pair it with Centurions, Vindicators, Enforcers, Panthers... anything with 4/6/x movement and it is good. But that fast lance? Nope.

That said, the end result is kinda mediocre lance certainly. And depending on the game, one unit having low speed may not be an issue. My games are usually lance on lance or such, and end up with mix of unit speeds, even though my units, companies all, have strict organization based on unit speeds.

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #58 on: 16 February 2021, 23:38:15 »
Centurion
ShadowHawk
Clint
Jagermech

...
...
...
OK, I don't want to run that. But it's something you'd realistically run into (Except the Clint is supposed to be rare), and on the heavy end to boot.

Empyrus

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Re: The Mediocre Succession Wars Lance -- what would you run?
« Reply #59 on: 17 February 2021, 01:45:24 »
Replace the Shadow Hawk and i see a Lance i'd be quite willing to run. The Shadow Hawk ruins everything :P