Author Topic: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us  (Read 116387 times)

Nerroth

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #120 on: 04 February 2022, 23:00:36 »
[spoiler]One thing I endeavored to show in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade is that the Scorpions have learned from the mistakes that the Invading Clans made. Instead of conquering vast swaths of territory far from home, and splitting their forces and focus, their conquest of the Hanseatic League began first by establishing colonies between the Empire and the League. This reduced the distance between the two parts of what would become the larger Empire after the conquest, making it easier to govern the whole. To undertake an invasion of worlds on the edge of the Inner Sphere would require considerable effort and an abandonment of the model that worked so effectively. While the Scorpions are very invested in anti-piracy efforts, even those far afield (as I showed in one of the reborn ComStar trio 'Mechs in the RecGuide), this is as much about maintaining a keen edge on their troops' abilities as cleaning up the neighborhood. Most assuredly, their forces will engage any pirates from the Rim Territories, if the pirates are foolish enough to seek prey outward rather than in toward the Inner Sphere. Since the latter is much closer and thus requires less time and investment to raid, and since they've been around for 70 years, they'd be well-advised to mind their manners. But any attempt to occupy or conquer those worlds by the Empire isn't something I see develeloping given how long it would take to engineer. After all, the Scorpions now have a fully self-sufficient nation. They're not content to sit on their laurels, and they've added at least one Galaxy to their touman since the Crusade. They know what dangers lurk in the depths, after all. I'd say they're busily preparing for the next war, which is more likely to come to them than vice versa.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Alternatively, if a full-scale conquest of the Rim Territories was not viable, perhaps a more measured approach could be an option?

To put it another way: perhaps the Scorpions could show up and claim control of a single Rim Territories system to begin with, akin to their establishment of a foothold in the Chaine Cluster. (Since the Scorpions are so keen on history, perhaps they might re-name the world in question to the name it went by during the first Star League.)

Such a holding might act as a waypoint to support rimward Seeker expeditions - such as their relatively recent visit to Solaris VII - while offering a useful distraction for the more hot-headed Trueborn warriors who might otherwise stir up trouble in the Empire proper.

And in the medium to long term, the Scorpions could try to pick off a neighbouring star system or two if circumstances permit...[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: 04 February 2022, 23:04:57 by Nerroth »

Doc Swift

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #121 on: 04 February 2022, 23:06:21 »
Just have to say your Awesome C is the scariest Awesome variant I have read about.  And Spot on: Hellion Keshik is definitely a great sequel to Hanseatic Crusade.

There was back and forth over whether it should be the Awesome C or Awesome IIC, since it's really a complete remake. That happened above my pay grade, though. I'm just happy it's what it is. (See, I had it in mind when I gave the Hanseatic League the Awesome 9Q in the OTP, which took some back and forth of its own as I recall.) In the end, it's fairly simple but I think pretty, well, awesome. :)

At some point, the Empire will have to fight a war. Their touman is filled with warriors who want to make their mark. Holding them back will only work for so long. As the architect of things to this point, I hope it doesn't force them to make rash decisions that could lead to disaster. After all, it's not like in the Homeworlds where it was easy to throw your best against another Clan's best and let them beat each other's brains out. They've basically cleared the region of threats, and their warriors need worthy foes...

And thanks! The OTP and the two SOs were fun to craft!
« Last Edit: 04 February 2022, 23:13:22 by Doc Swift »

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #122 on: 04 February 2022, 23:12:43 »
[spoiler]Alternatively, if a full-scale conquest of the Rim Territories was not viable, perhaps a more measured approach could be an option?

To put it another way: perhaps the Scorpions could show up and claim control of a single Rim Territories system to begin with, akin to their establishment of a foothold in the Chaine Cluster. (Since the Scorpions are so keen on history, perhaps they might re-name the world in question to the name it went by during the first Star League.)

Such a holding might act as a waypoint to support rimward Seeker expeditions - such as their relatively recent visit to Solaris VII - while offering a useful distraction for the more hot-headed Trueborn warriors who might otherwise stir up trouble in the Empire proper.

And in the medium to long term, the Scorpions could try to pick off a neighbouring star system or two if circumstances permit...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]"There are always possibilities," Spock said, and it's certainly something that could happen. I'll note that winning a trial for an enclave on a Clan-held world is a far different matter from taking territory from non-Clan forces. They tend not to take such things in stride, and it would definitely escalate beyond a simple trial. In an actual fight, the Scorpions would mop the floor with the Territories, but then the Empire would be left vulnerable. It's not a short trip between the two. Now, if the Seekers get themselves into trouble digging for some relics or other, there might be a reason to send in the troops. It was kinda their fault the Crusade happened when it did, somewhat prematurely for Khan Scott's liking, so there's also precedent for that! (And Seeker Galaxy got tuned up hard in the Crusade.) The Scorpions are sporting at least seven Galaxies, which is pretty significant. It's eight if the PGCs are lumped together into Grunt Galaxy again.

Rather than military conquest, though, a mercantile operation to peel them off from Lyran or Sea Fox suppliers could spark a bigger conflict between the Empire and worthy foes...[/spoiler]

rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #123 on: 04 February 2022, 23:36:28 »
[spoiler]Well, I'm glad there is not state of war between the Scorpions and Sea Foxes.  The Sea Foxes are the types that would welcome the competition. 

I see the prominent ELH Bloodnames in existence.  That's something many of us have been speculating about for quite some time.  Barclay sibko decanted on Roche BEFORE they were Abjured?  That's really interesting. [/spoiler]

I already can't wait for the Scorpions to appear in future sourcebooks.
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #124 on: 04 February 2022, 23:47:00 »
[spoiler]I see the prominent ELH Bloodnames in existence.  That's something many of us have been speculating about for quite some time.  Barclay sibko decanted on Roche BEFORE they were Abjured?  That's really interesting. [/spoiler]

I already can't wait for the Scorpions to appear in future sourcebooks.

[spoiler]Remember why the Scorpions were abjured? ;) And I think you might mean Winston...  ???[/spoiler]

Tell Ray! And tell him you want me to write it!  ;D

Nerroth

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #125 on: 05 February 2022, 00:16:40 »
[spoiler]"There are always possibilities," Spock said, and it's certainly something that could happen. I'll note that winning a trial for an enclave on a Clan-held world is a far different matter from taking territory from non-Clan forces. They tend not to take such things in stride, and it would definitely escalate beyond a simple trial. In an actual fight, the Scorpions would mop the floor with the Territories, but then the Empire would be left vulnerable. It's not a short trip between the two. Now, if the Seekers get themselves into trouble digging for some relics or other, there might be a reason to send in the troops. It was kinda their fault the Crusade happened when it did, somewhat prematurely for Khan Scott's liking, so there's also precedent for that! (And Seeker Galaxy got tuned up hard in the Crusade.) The Scorpions are sporting at least seven Galaxies, which is pretty significant. It's eight if the PGCs are lumped together into Grunt Galaxy again.

Rather than military conquest, though, a mercantile operation to peel them off from Lyran or Sea Fox suppliers could spark a bigger conflict between the Empire and worthy foes...[/spoiler]

Hmm...

[spoiler]I took a look at the maps in First Succession War in order to try and figure out which Rim Territories systems had which Rim Worlds Republic system names - and it turns out that a number of these systems had been part of the short-lived Finmark Free Republic. So there's an added bit of history there to dig up, so to speak.

But then, there is another detail of note. During Operation REVIVAL, the invading Clans were mainly focused on the crimes of the Usurper when they showed up in former RWR systems, to the chagrin of the conquered populace. However, despite everything, the Great Father himself had considered the "post-Amaris" Rim Worlds to be under Star League protection. He was not pleased about the opportunism displayed by the Lyrans during Operation ALMARIC, though any effort to follow up on this was pre-empted by the Exodus. (Over in the Empires Aflame timeline, settling this "unfinished business" would lead the Terrans and Lyrans to co-sponsor the creation of the Rim Federation.)[/spoiler]

So, [spoiler]if the Scorpions were to show up in Rim Territories space - in whatever capacity - they could portray themselves to the locals as the (belated) executors of Kerensky Senior's wishes towards them. What said locals might think of it all, however, is another matter...[/spoiler]

And another thing: [spoiler]if there is going to be a greater degree of contact between the Scorpions and the Council of Six Clans - or is it seven now, with the return of the Smoke Jaguars? - might there be a Trial of Position to see if threads like this one should stay here, or possibly be moved "back" to the Clan sub-board?[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: 05 February 2022, 00:24:40 by Nerroth »

rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #126 on: 05 February 2022, 00:27:08 »
[spoiler]Remember why the Scorpions were abjured? ;) And I think you might mean Winston...  ???[/spoiler]

Tell Ray! And tell him you want me to write it!  ;D

Yes, I do remember why they were Abjured.  And of course I meant Winston!   Lol... 

Anyway, if you think it would help, I'll ask, but....
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #127 on: 05 February 2022, 00:32:00 »
[spoiler]if there is going to be a greater degree of contact between the Scorpions and the Council of Six Clans - or is it seven now, with the return of the Smoke Jaguars? - might there be a Trial of Position to see if threads like this one should stay here, or possibly be moved "back" to the Clan sub-board?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]No one has really pointed out that the Sea Foxes clearly regard the Scorpions as Clan, not as abjured. I've got ideas on how that might lead to new developments, but there are a lot of moving parts to deal with when you move beyond the isolation of the Deep Periphery. I think unless the Scorpions officially gain some recognition that negates that abjuration, they're still a separate entity. I also like the Periphery and having the Scorpions thread here makes it cooler.[/spoiler]

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #128 on: 05 February 2022, 00:33:01 »
Yes, I do remember why they were Abjured. 

This was me acknowledging that turn of events and tying it into a new Bloodhouse.

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #129 on: 05 February 2022, 11:42:38 »
I really see the SO opening up the field like Tamar Rising. More people to fight at sub-invasion levels?

that is gold. Well done!

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #130 on: 05 February 2022, 13:38:19 »
Technically, isn't the Tamar Pact just the Chaos March 2.0?

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #131 on: 05 February 2022, 19:42:01 »
[spoiler]Remember why the Scorpions were abjured? ;) And I think you might mean Winston...  ???[/spoiler]

Tell Ray! And tell him you want me to write it!  ;D

DO IT! Start writing now ;D
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #132 on: 05 February 2022, 21:40:13 »
I really see the SO opening up the field like Tamar Rising. More people to fight at sub-invasion levels?

that is gold. Well done!

The Scorpions will be tied up with expanding their forces in the former Hanseatic League.  The expansion into the Chainelane looks more like an attempt to keep trade that the Hanseatic League kept and to find the next challenge in their expansion.  It looks like they may have competition with the Clan Sea Foxes but I see it (hopefully) more civilized.

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #133 on: 05 February 2022, 21:43:24 »
The Scorpions have already formed at least one new Galaxy since the Crusade (mentioned in RecGuide V23, I think), and the Sea Foxes zealously kept others from the Chainelane worlds. Winning that enclave was the Scorpions flexing on them, kind of testing their mettle against their biggest regional threat.

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #134 on: 06 February 2022, 00:18:59 »
SO on Helion Keshik continues the line of excellence I've loved from your work Doc. I'd love to see how the other Periphery powers end up during the start of the IlClan, especially if you ever get to tackle the Fronc Reaches again. Or even the Taurians/Calderon reapproachment and reunion...

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #135 on: 06 February 2022, 00:31:42 »
Thanks! Glad to hear you've liked my work!

I still love the Reaches. The sequel to "The Marshal Way" is floating around somewhere with the fiction guys, but it's been there for several years so I'm not confident it'll ever see the light of day. Shame, as I thought it was pretty damn good.

Hassle Ray that you want me to write more Periphery stuff! Maybe he'll listen!  >:D
« Last Edit: 06 February 2022, 00:33:58 by Doc Swift »

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #136 on: 06 February 2022, 00:55:57 »
[spoiler]No one has really pointed out that the Sea Foxes clearly regard the Scorpions as Clan, not as abjured.

Well I don't think any IS Clan cares really what the Homeworld Clans decreed after the Wars of Reavings, otherwise they would all be considered Abjured
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Doc Swift

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #137 on: 06 February 2022, 00:58:03 »
And now the Scorpions know that...

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #138 on: 06 February 2022, 01:03:52 »
The Abjured Clans outnumber the UntaintedTM Clans of the Homeworlds.

Last I checked might does not make wrong among the Children of Kerensky...
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #139 on: 06 February 2022, 01:32:12 »
And now the Scorpions know that...

sure? but the IS Clans were all "Abjured" before the Scorpions were...if anything, it should say more that the Scorpions don't consider the Foxes as Abjured
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #140 on: 06 February 2022, 04:12:36 »
The Scorpions have already formed at least one new Galaxy since the Crusade (mentioned in RecGuide V23, I think), and the Sea Foxes zealously kept others from the Chainelane worlds. Winning that enclave was the Scorpions flexing on them, kind of testing their mettle against their biggest regional threat.

Yep. And we already had some more details about them in Moving Forward.

sure? but the IS Clans were all "Abjured" before the Scorpions were...if anything, it should say more that the Scorpions don't consider the Foxes as Abjured

Yes and no. If you are talking to the Homeworld Clans, perhaps. But then again, those consider them all tainted.
Now, if you want to talk to the Clans in the IS, their opinion counts a lot heavier than that of the Homeworld Clans. Why would Clan Wolf care what any of the Homeworld Clans think? (That assumes the Homeworld Clans are even alive anymore.) If the Scorpions want to engage with the IS Clans, they have to somewhat play by their rules.
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #141 on: 06 February 2022, 04:28:24 »
Yes and no. If you are talking to the Homeworld Clans, perhaps. But then again, those consider them all tainted.
Now, if you want to talk to the Clans in the IS, their opinion counts a lot heavier than that of the Homeworld Clans. Why would Clan Wolf care what any of the Homeworld Clans think? (That assumes the Homeworld Clans are even alive anymore.) If the Scorpions want to engage with the IS Clans, they have to somewhat play by their rules.

the point being made was that the Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes don't consider the Scorpions as Abjured

my point is, why would they? The Homeworld Clans Abjured the Scorpions long after the IS Clans already left the Homeworlds behind and were already themselves Abjured by said Homeworld Clans (including the Scorpions)
« Last Edit: 06 February 2022, 04:35:38 by Zeruel »
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #142 on: 06 February 2022, 05:17:27 »
my point is, why would they? The Homeworld Clans Abjured the Scorpions long after the IS Clans already left the Homeworlds behind and were already themselves Abjured by said Homeworld Clans (including the Scorpions)

Ah, then I misunderstood :)
We will have to see how the relationship between the Scorpions and the IS Clans will play out. I don't think Alaric has them on his radar. And we don't know what decision they are going to make after the end of Moving Forward. They were going to discuss their relationship with a potential ilClan, not necessarily accepting it or bowing to it, but also not necessarily not accepting it. I don't really see them bend the knee, though. The risk of losing what they have build through careful planing might be too great. But I can see them enter in a mutual beneficial relationship.
Either way, just speculating here. I have absolutely no insight into how things are going to progress from this point forward. I haven't asked, since I am currently not writing anything about the Scorpions.
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #143 on: 06 February 2022, 05:52:48 »
As I was scrolling to the MUL yesterday (as one does) I saw that the Scorpions have access to the Korvin ever since they conquered the Castilians, bringing it back from extinction. Is that new? Or did I just miss it? Either way, it was a nice surprise.
EDIT: And the Tiger and LVT-4 are on the list as well. This really makes me want to build a mixed second-line Binary.
« Last Edit: 06 February 2022, 08:42:53 by Gorgon »
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #144 on: 06 February 2022, 11:58:59 »
Yeah, by all appearances the PGCs of the Empire are full of some really cool stuff.

It's kind of a shame that Imperial society seems to be far more Clan than not, meaning there doesn't seem to be any room for militias that rate even below the PGCs, or for small private forces raised by influential civilians(the equivalent of a noble's personal forces, though in this case you'd likely have a merchant of some kind at the top), but I guess we can't have everything.

At this point I think the proper term Imperial law would use for such units would be "Pirate".
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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #145 on: 06 February 2022, 12:10:02 »
Since they had to fight those private forces during the Crusade, I think the Scorpions would take a dim view of them on their new territory. With the early issues the Scorpions faced consolidating, future Hansa members of the merchant caste would have little political capital to try to reform such forces. And if any tried to build them in secret, their former serfs would waste little time ratting them out or taking matters into their own hands, especially now that they live far better as members of the laborer caste.

However, Clan police forces rate below PGCs, so there's a place for more eclectic force composition out there.  :)

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #146 on: 06 February 2022, 12:20:38 »
Yeah, by all appearances the PGCs of the Empire are full of some really cool stuff.

It's kind of a shame that Imperial society seems to be far more Clan than not, meaning there doesn't seem to be any room for militias that rate even below the PGCs, or for small private forces raised by influential civilians(the equivalent of a noble's personal forces, though in this case you'd likely have a merchant of some kind at the top), but I guess we can't have everything.

At this point I think the proper term Imperial law would use for such units would be "Pirate".

The Scorpions may create or modify one of their Galaxies to protect their merchants.  They have experience with their Seeker units but the Scorpion Empire is flexible enough that creating such a unit is not out of line.  One other note the Hanseatic League had a poor experience with mercenaries before the Crusade so the chances of creating merc units is the same as the Ghost Bear Dominion directly hiring the GDL in pirate hunting.

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #147 on: 06 February 2022, 13:11:54 »
The Scorpions may create or modify one of their Galaxies to protect their merchants. 

afree- Sounds like a mission for a rebuilt ELH... ;-)

They have experience with their Seeker units but the Scorpion Empire is flexible enough that creating such a unit is not out of line.

Agree fully; sorry to see the protos go, but I can see the Scorpions becoming big fans of quadvees, they seem like kind of Mech that would be popular with their freeborn mechwarriors and the trueborns being all "eh, sure, we'll allow it.  whatever." :-)

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #148 on: 06 February 2022, 14:49:03 »
However, Clan police forces rate below PGCs, so there's a place for more eclectic force composition out there.  :)

Oh hey, I have a Jade Falcon Watch force in the works, but completely forgot about doing something similar for the Scorps! Hmmm...horse-mounted police with a couple APCs as paddy wagons (or whatever they're called now), a couple armed Indys for heavy backup, and a command blimp on overwatch!
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rebs

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Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us
« Reply #149 on: 06 February 2022, 14:55:51 »
Didn't TR mention something about Police 'Mechs as well?
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