Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion Part 5 - Comes With Everything You See Here

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

One of the big issues of the Regent A is that it's actually oversinked.  It's got 52 heat dissipation/round, so it can fire all three PPCs and the ER Medium laser while running and stay heat neutral.  Since it can do that, trying to use the capacitors actually lowers its damage output, because there's no pattern that can be used with the PPCs that lets it match the damage potential of just firing all three without capacitors.  The Coolant Pod is likewise redundant because there's no way to actually gain heat in the mech multiple turns in a row unless you've taken engine damage or an Inferno bath.

[BrianDavion]

honestly caps are outright over used these days. every design with PPCs seems to use them and I HATE it

[VensersRevenge]

Agreed, they don't do enough to be valuable, I just take them off in amy custom design.

[Empyrus]

PPC caps are interesting as game mechanic, adding risk-reward and offering additional first-strike firepower. But they need above average pilot and/or to-hit bonuses from AES or TC to be worth it in numbers, IMO. A reg is too likely to waste a charged shot against reasonably mobile or covered opponent.

A 'Mech with single PPC with cap? Sure, it is fine, all it takes is one ton. Charge it up before first attack, then ignore it for rest of the game or until you get a break to charge it, not even too expensive in BV.

[Weirdo]

The situation to use the capacitors is is either in the first salvo once in range, when you've had the chance to charge them the turn before when you weren't able to fire anyway.

The other situation when you want to charge is during those occasional turns when you lose LoS to your targets(you're 3/5, it's gonna happen at some point). You take advantage of the lull to charge up and hit the target extra hard when you next see them.

[Scotty]

I’ll freely admit I’m not qualified to rate mechs in the way Scotty does.  I’ve played on the tabletop.  I’ve even played BV balanced games (occasionally).  But I don’t really “speak BV” so to speak.  My perspective on Battletech is definitely fiction-first.  So it should come as little surprise that I have a completely different take on the Regent than Scotty does.  I think it’s exactly what an omnimech should be.  Replicating multiple designs on one chassis simplifies logistics enormously and is exactly what omnis should always have been doing all along.  There should be a 5/8/5 55 tonner that has configs replicating the classic trio (and the jumping Trebuchet etc).  There should be a top-end 4/6 heavy Omni with configs that replicate the Marauder, Warhammer, Archer, Black Knight, Grasshopper, etc.  Is it boring?  Yeah, maybe.  But it makes total in-universe sense.  Also, I completely adore the A config.  3 20 point hits out to 23 hexes every other turn with essentially no heat or ammo worries?  Yes please.


I should admit to pro-Regent bias because I like the fiction around it for other reasons, but even laying that aside I love this mech.  More of this, please.

The meta problem with the Regent is that all of its configs do the same thing.   Your choices are: direct fire energy with a big ballistic gun and middling secondary guns, direct fire energy guns only, direct fire big ballistics only, and a more expensive Mauler.  These are fundamentally the same things (and a Mauler) and all approach every other target in the game the same way.  There's no config that mixes up big and small hits, there's no config that effectively brackets, there's no config that changes the mobility profile, there's no config with meaningful support equipment.

It's four bricks that are slightly different colors in a row, the variety is superficial.

[Arkansas Warrior]

It would be nice if there was one that replicated the Longbow/Salamander/Viking/[Insert other assault LRM boat here].  Or an artillery config like the Naga/O-Bakemono, that’s true.

honestly caps are outright over used these days. every design with PPCs seems to use them and I HATE it

I wouldn’t use them all the time; 3 15-point hits every turn is better than 3 20-pointers every other turn.  But they’re a nice option to have.  Any turn you don’t fire the PPCs, charge them up and hit for extra damage the next time you fire.  The difference isn’t quite as dramatic with clantech, but with IS tech, when the capacitor turns the PPC into a headcapper?  Huge deal.

[Colt Ward]

Question is for cERPPCs, would it be worth it if it did 7 or 8 damage rather than 5?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Honestly?  Not really.

[Jal Phoenix]

A Capacitor turns a Clan ER PPC or a Heavy PPC into a weapon that forces a piloting skill roll. It turns a standard PPC, IS ER PPC, and Snub-nose PPC into headcappers. It turns a light PPC into a standard PPC every other turn. For 1 ton and 1 crit. I'll take it.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Capacitors also brick the PPC on an attack roll of 2 and explode for an ammo explosion equal to the PPC+Capacitor's damage if they or the PPC is critted while the Capacitor is charged.

[Liam's Ghost]

Personally, I feel like capacitors are best on smaller units who don't have tonnage for more than one big gun and are likely to spend more time maneuvering. The down side of the capacitor is much less pronounced when you're ducking in and out of cover and you're light enough that, on average, you're less likely to survive to see it explode.

Big, heavily armored, slow moving machines are better off keeping up the rate of fire than toying with something already cutting down their ability to do damage over time that might just take a gun straight out of the fight.

[Sartris]

They’re true (or at least most hilarious) calling are on fast or ambush-oriented combat vees.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Personally, I feel like capacitors are best on smaller units who don't have tonnage for more than one big gun and are likely to spend more time maneuvering. The down side of the capacitor is much less pronounced when you're ducking in and out of cover and you're light enough that, on average, you're less likely to survive to see it explode.

Big, heavily armored, slow moving machines are better off keeping up the rate of fire than toying with something already cutting down their ability to do damage over time that might just take a gun straight out of the fight.

Agreed.

[S.gage]

Personally, I feel like capacitors are best on smaller units who don't have tonnage for more than one big gun and are likely to spend more time maneuvering. The down side of the capacitor is much less pronounced when you're ducking in and out of cover and you're light enough that, on average, you're less likely to survive to see it explode.

Big, heavily armored, slow moving machines are better off keeping up the rate of fire than toying with something already cutting down their ability to do damage over time that might just take a gun straight out of the fight.

For the most part, this makes a lot of sense. However, I could see a use on an assault 'Mech - if your 'Mech is significantly under-sinked, say like some variant of the Titan II, and you need to alternate firing patterns to remain near heat-neutral, capacitors might make sense. But this seems like a knife-edge of riding the heat curve, and would require a lot of serendipity or some pretty savvy design.

[Jal Phoenix]

Capacitors also brick the PPC on an attack roll of 2 and explode for an ammo explosion equal to the PPC+Capacitor's damage if they or the PPC is critted while the Capacitor is charged.

Ultra ACs and RACs also brick the weapon, though RACs can be unjammed. Gauss Rifles are a huge number of crits waiting to explode, as opposed to the Capacitor's one. And when the Capacitor is not in use, it's a harmless little crit sink. What I'm saying is that those are very minor drawbacks for the benefit, and they are neither unique to the Capacitor nor particularly devastating. The added heat is a bigger problem than either of those things. And I guess BV, but honestly I don't put a lot of thought into that. I wish I had the chance to play more, then I might.

[Weirdo]

Personally, I feel like capacitors are best on smaller units who don't have tonnage for more than one big gun...

I know this isn't precisely what you mean, but that was basically the logic behind the Anzu's LPPC+Cap. It gave that mech two heavy guns for less tonnage, the cost being a reduced rate of fire.

Honestly, I rather like the fact that capacitors dice you to plan ahead, and have also felt that aside from a few rapid-fire autocannons this game has been woefully lacking in rate of fire mechanics unless you want to jump in the deep end of some long OOP dueling rules.

(Full disclosure: When designing that mech, I had also COMPLETELY forgotten about the penalties of rolling a 2 with that gun. :-[ )

[Scotty]

Having the capability to fire every turn is a major advantage.  Or rather, not having the ability to fire on some turns is a major disadvantage. It gives your opponent an entirely new lever (on top of initiative) to force disadvantageous maneuvering responses or a significant reprieve from dangerous incoming fire unless your unit with capacitors is well supported.

Being able to force a PSR in one hit is fantastic, but if you miss the wheels come off much faster than if you didn't have one at all.  And the things it does to your BV are, uh, not kind.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Ultra ACs and RACs also brick the weapon, though RACs can be unjammed. Gauss Rifles are a huge number of crits waiting to explode, as opposed to the Capacitor's one.

Capacitors explode if the Capacitor or the PPC it's attached to get critted.  That's not as much as a Gauss Rifle, but the Capacitor also bricks the gun if you roll a 2 (and unlike an ultra or RAC, the attack doesn't have a chance to hit the target), and it limits your firing rate.  That's a lot of added disadvantages for +5 to damage that can at most occur every other round.

[CVB]

I think it's not so much the 5 damage points per se, but the fact that in every case it allows the PPC to cross a threshold:
HPPC and Clan ER: PSR
IS (ER)PPC; SR &  MR Snubby: head capper
LPPC; LR Snubby: head IS damage & crit roll.

[five_corparty]

Personally, I feel like capacitors are best on smaller units who don't have tonnage for more than one big gun and are likely to spend more time maneuvering. The down side of the capacitor is much less pronounced when you're ducking in and out of cover and you're light enough that, on average, you're less likely to survive to see it explode.

I think a GREAT example of this is the Jackal 1579 w/Capacitor: ducking in and out of cover and gaining the headcapper ability.

Would I LOOOOVE to see a Jackal C/ or a Jackal w/HPPC? Sure!  But this works. :-)

For my part, agree with the discussion- I LOVE me some capacitors, but I've learned that they're not great on big mechs that rely on them for their main punch because of the staggering requirement.  But on little bubbas (or the truly bonkers Awesome -11M) they are just soooo much fun!

[Zeruel]

but the Capacitor also bricks the gun if you roll a 2 (and unlike an ultra or RAC, the attack doesn't have a chance to hit the target)

wait, what?
How do UACs and RACs still have a chance to hit their target on a jam?

[MarauderD]

Capacitors also brick the PPC on an attack roll of 2 and explode for an ammo explosion equal to the PPC+Capacitor's damage if they or the PPC is critted while the Capacitor is charged.

Interesting.  Is that rule in TW so I can read it myself?

[Empyrus]

wait, what?
How do UACs and RACs still have a chance to hit their target on a jam?

They don't, 2 is automatic miss for them.

[Sartris]

Interesting.  Is that rule in TW so I can read it myself?

no, capacitors are in TacOps Advanced Rules and Equipment p149

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

They don't, 2 is automatic miss for them.

No it isn't.  Rapid-fire weapons do not automatically miss on a 2: BMM Common Misconceptions, page 128.  Capacitor rules specifically state that the PPC misses (fails to fire, actually) on a 2.

[Jal Phoenix]

They don't, 2 is automatic miss for them.

Total Warfare changed that with its first edition. P114, under Rapid-Fire weapons states that even though the gun jammed, the shot still fires. BMM under its entry on Rapid-Fire weapons clarifies that the shot are still fired as normal and may still hit their target. It's a stupid change that never should have been made, but it's been there since 2005.

[Zeruel]

Hunh...I know realism isn't a major thing in CBT  but what is jamming if the shot still fires?

[Ghaz]

Hunh...I know realism isn't a major thing in CBT  but what is jamming if the shot still fires?

Realistic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_malfunction#Failure_to_eject

[Colt Ward]

Hunh...I know realism isn't a major thing in CBT  but what is jamming if the shot still fires?

You can get brass & feed links stuck in the ejector that will jam up a semi/auto mechanism.  Or double feeds.  Honestly, firing or not firing depends on what type of jam.