Author Topic: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business  (Read 9038 times)

Inkvine

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #30 on: 01 March 2022, 17:20:04 »
I'm curious: are you using FM:Mercs (R) for this command? If so, what are your monthly expenses? The support costs (food, pay) for all those troopers makes me wince.

Indeed I am. If I didn't goof up (which is very unlikely), the current reinforced Batallion is at around 800k/month I think, as for this one, I didn't dare to look yet... :D

As for the infantry, if I understand correctly, I do not need to specify the extra vehicle if I follow the abstract squad type unless it is something like a Maxim or a Blizzard. So say, 10 guys in dune buggies would be listed as "Motorized Infantry Squad (Wheeled)" However in the case of the Jump infantry, say I want to make them use Karnov UR VTOL to deploy with 4-6 Squads per VTOL, could I also simply note them as "Jump Infantry Platoon (VTOL)" ?
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Doc Swift

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #31 on: 01 March 2022, 17:27:24 »
That's kinda what I was thinking. That's... A LOT of cash!  ;D

2ndAcr

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #32 on: 01 March 2022, 17:36:08 »
 I would use 4x Foot infantry platoons and mount them on 2x heavy APC with the other 2x vehicles for the platoon being Goblin for direct support. Or if hover, something else suitable to keep up but provide direct support fire etc. Or mount each platoon in Maxim Hover tanks. Czar Dropship is actually carrier an Infantry Regiment not an armor carrier. Carrier 36 platoons and 3600 tons supply. But not in current production. But some soldiered on well into the late 3060-70, so possible. Could also carry all your regiment support staff.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Czar

 Personal choice, but I streamline brutally, if possible, to cut down on maintenance, ammo, parts etc. By the Battalion if at all possible, when I am doing large commands.

dgorsman

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #33 on: 01 March 2022, 19:42:01 »
A couple of minor naming notations.  Artillery is typically named 'batteries' (battery, single), while cavalry likes to use historical terms such as 'troop' (company level) and 'squadron' (battalion level).  See the 13th Stalking Horse and the Wild Geese entries in Mercs Supplemental II if you have it.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #34 on: 01 March 2022, 20:21:09 »
FM Mercs (R) had the problem for contract pay out based on salaries rather than equipment involved.  It was early sourcebook nonsense that was never practical but kept alive until . . . Campaign Ops? corrected payment to realize employers are also hiring your TOOLS.
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RifleMech

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #35 on: 02 March 2022, 01:01:31 »
Indeed I am. If I didn't goof up (which is very unlikely), the current reinforced Batallion is at around 800k/month I think, as for this one, I didn't dare to look yet... :D

As for the infantry, if I understand correctly, I do not need to specify the extra vehicle if I follow the abstract squad type unless it is something like a Maxim or a Blizzard. So say, 10 guys in dune buggies would be listed as "Motorized Infantry Squad (Wheeled)" However in the case of the Jump infantry, say I want to make them use Karnov UR VTOL to deploy with 4-6 Squads per VTOL, could I also simply note them as "Jump Infantry Platoon (VTOL)" ?

I would note the Karnov or other transport. Mechanized and Motorized Infantry do abstract their vehicles but the larger transports, such as the Karnov, are still separate entities. They're not integral to the platoon as the platoon and vehicle can still move and fight separate from each other. So they should be noted.
 

guardiandashi

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #36 on: 02 March 2022, 23:43:14 »
depending on what you are intending your infantry's role to be you might want to note what they are armed with
IE rifle, SRM, laser, etc.

obviously srm infantry is going to be more expensive to field/maintain than rifle ones
and laser costs more to setup but "ammunition" is a lot cheaper

Inkvine

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #37 on: 03 March 2022, 14:16:06 »
I want to primarily employ conventional infantry (motorized/mechanized for better deployment speed) in a way that makes use of their in-setting flexibility. I don't see them as troops that take the brunt of the enemy's assault - that's what tanks and 'Mechs are for. Sweeping/defensive roles mostly, sometimes used as non-invasive light elements on the offense - provide correct intel, detect and neutralize ambushes and other threats (mines, planted explosives) to keep heavier elements safe, capturing objectives which need to be kept intact, capturing enemy personnel and equipment, establishing control zones, coordinate evacuation efforts, etc. On top of that, I'm thinking about generally outfitting them with one-shot weapons such as grenades, and have at least a number of troopers per platoon with them with decent anti-'Mech/Vehicle weapons like SRM launchers for opportunistic flanking attacks. I'd give them standard assault rifles per standard to keep initial costs low (ammo seems to be cheap).

Standard firearm: TK Assault Rifle
OS: Grenades (normal/inferno?)
Support: 2-shot SRM

From the description I see jump infantry as veteran troops meant primarily for deep strikes, outflanking, operating behind enemy lines and sometimes providing a hard to hit, hard to engage threat to heavy enemy elements, other infantry, anti-'Mech BA, etc. They circumvent bad terrain, they can get into position easily, they can use a Karnov to deploy from air - I assume they can plink away at 'Mech legs aswell.

Standard firearm: Laser Rifle (Blazer)

BA come in after the Clan Invasion. Their deployment capabilities should be similar to jump infantry (able to airdrop), I imagine they are elite troops used to swarm enemy 'Mechs and armor to try and tear them apart, or engage other BA for that matter, though I don't know too much about them outside the GDL context.

Suit: IS Standard/Gray Death Standard (no JJ, more firepower)
Weapon: Variable

How's this for a setup?

Other considerations:
- I'll note the Karnov as it should be. Thanks for the heads up.
- Isn't an artillery battery 8 or more pieces? Also, is 'Mech mounted/self-propelled artillery still noted as lances/platoons?
- I like the Czar, and will consider it for a future upscaling I think, though it asks the question: can you have too much infantry? ^^ As for the stronger transports, interestingly enough I own a Maxim and two Goblins, and think they are really solid choices for situations when added punch is neccessary.
- Yes, the contract system in FM: Mercs (revised) seems to work solely based on the salaries, which doesn't make sense at all to me. Any suggestions on how to incorporate the value of fielded assets in a streamlined fashion in lieu of Campaign Ops? (there must be a thread somewhere discussing this, I really can't wrap my head around it)
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #38 on: 03 March 2022, 14:47:34 »
Artillery Batteries depend on the strength of a weapon system . . . a Long Tom battery could be 3 guns, a platoon of gunners centered on each one.  A SP artillery battery could be 12 TAV (SW), which you can buy at this point, as those are Thumpers and integrated.

IF you guys decide to allow for squad rules, IMO that is where you infantry becomes useful . . . since you could define a 'squad' down to a 4 man LP/OP team that observes an area and if the mech fight rolls into that sector . . . well, now they can sweep in (using those abstracted infantry rules) on motorbikes to rescue your mechwarriors.

BA . . . the IS Standard uses JJ- and has more firepower than the GDL.  The GLD standard has more sensor support than the IS Standard . . . and the IS Standard has a greater source of parts b/c of commonality with Raiden and Cavaliers.  Unfortunately those two got dumbed down to just be brand named IS Standards instead of slight variations.

Contracts terms & payment . . .

Original Merc campaign material- before FM Merc (R) and going back who knows how far- based payment on salaries.  Which has never been the norm for any sort of contractor with real property involved in the business.  If you do not have it, I would highly recommend Campaign Ops PDF- or sourcebooks by PDF period, I take my Kindle to games and have literal book boxes worth of sourcebooks on it.  Total Warfare, TacOps, TechManual, Camp Ops, Interstellar Ops, Objectives FWL, the RecGuides I bought, ER3145, FM3145, Era Digest Dark Ages, Era Report 3052, lots of Turning Points, a few Spotlight Ons, lots of Touring the Stars, old WCSB, old scenario books, and more.  And SOME of that is PDF only releases.

But going back, Campaign Ops has things that will allow you to add depth to your PC's campaign . . . give units special abilities (hey these guys spent a year slugging it out in the abandoned ruins of a Star League megapolis- they get a urban combat specialty) along with pilots.  A PC accumulates a lot of experience?  Instead of making that veteran pilot get a elite piloting skill, they can get a SPA like terrain master or bonuses when cluster weapons (LBX & Missile) hit a target.

For your contract reasoning, I would have to look at it again but it finally shifted the paradigm to getting paid on the value of your assets.  So a foot infantry regiment (with no vehicles or dropship assets) will not get paid more than a mech regiment just because it has over 756 infantry officers & enlisted compared to 108 mechwarriors.  It actually values that besides that individual, you are bringing in assets that cost millions of c-bills each.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

RifleMech

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #39 on: 03 March 2022, 17:15:16 »
I want to primarily employ conventional infantry (motorized/mechanized for better deployment speed) in a way that makes use of their in-setting flexibility. I don't see them as troops that take the brunt of the enemy's assault - that's what tanks and 'Mechs are for. Sweeping/defensive roles mostly, sometimes used as non-invasive light elements on the offense - provide correct intel, detect and neutralize ambushes and other threats (mines, planted explosives) to keep heavier elements safe, capturing objectives which need to be kept intact, capturing enemy personnel and equipment, establishing control zones, coordinate evacuation efforts, etc. On top of that, I'm thinking about generally outfitting them with one-shot weapons such as grenades, and have at least a number of troopers per platoon with them with decent anti-'Mech/Vehicle weapons like SRM launchers for opportunistic flanking attacks. I'd give them standard assault rifles per standard to keep initial costs low (ammo seems to be cheap).
(snip)

With the Motorized Infantry you might want to list what type they are like you did with Mechanized Infantry. Although (APC Wheeled) is a little confusing. I'm guessing you mean that they ride around in abstracted Wheeled APCs, not that they're Mechanized Infantry with an attached Wheeled APC.

If your unit has the money you might mix the Motorized/Mechanized vehicles a bit. Hover for speed and water crossing. They'd be the scouts. Wheeled for roads and cities. They're your main forces. Tracked to go where the other two can't and carry heavier weapons.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering if you'd thought about using any of the other infantry types; Armored, Field Gun/Field Artillery, Beast Mounted, VTOL Infantry, K-9, Specialized and Xenoplanetary? They do add cost and weight but their advantages can be worth it.

For BA, personally, initially I'd go with Sloths, and maybe Infiltrators. They're not perfect but they're better than nothing and would give your troops experience using BA. With everyone wanting the newer BA they could be easier to obtain and may also cost less as they're less desired and/or used. Otherwise, I'd go with IS Standard as they'd be more available. Any other types would either be captured, salvaged or negotiated for with the Employer as part of their payment.

DOC_Agren

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #40 on: 06 March 2022, 19:54:34 »
ASF:  I would like to throw out a few more options:
Sabre (Interceptor/Recon Birds) made everywhere [basicly the AK of Aerospace fighters. so you can pick up replacement parts anywhere]
Stingray or Eagle (Interceptors)
Thunderbird (Kill other people Dropships)

Slayers if you can get them get the R model, you have the fuel for days compared to everyone else
and if can't get the R swap the AC and ammo for PPC and heat sinks for ammo independance

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Inkvine

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #41 on: 07 March 2022, 20:32:46 »
For your contract reasoning, I would have to look at it again but it finally shifted the paradigm to getting paid on the value of your assets.  So a foot infantry regiment (with no vehicles or dropship assets) will not get paid more than a mech regiment just because it has over 756 infantry officers & enlisted compared to 108 mechwarriors.  It actually values that besides that individual, you are bringing in assets that cost millions of c-bills each.

If that's the case then I'll likely take a look at Campaign Ops after all, although I'll go for the PDF I think, since it seems like more of a 'prep' resource.

With the Motorized Infantry you might want to list what type they are like you did with Mechanized Infantry. Although (APC Wheeled) is a little confusing. I'm guessing you mean that they ride around in abstracted Wheeled APCs, not that they're Mechanized Infantry with an attached Wheeled APC.

If your unit has the money you might mix the Motorized/Mechanized vehicles a bit. Hover for speed and water crossing. They'd be the scouts. Wheeled for roads and cities. They're your main forces. Tracked to go where the other two can't and carry heavier weapons.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering if you'd thought about using any of the other infantry types; Armored, Field Gun/Field Artillery, Beast Mounted, VTOL Infantry, K-9, Specialized and Xenoplanetary? They do add cost and weight but their advantages can be worth it.

For BA, personally, initially I'd go with Sloths, and maybe Infiltrators. They're not perfect but they're better than nothing and would give your troops experience using BA. With everyone wanting the newer BA they could be easier to obtain and may also cost less as they're less desired and/or used. Otherwise, I'd go with IS Standard as they'd be more available. Any other types would either be captured, salvaged or negotiated for with the Employer as part of their payment.

1. Yes, that's the case, as in they are abstracted - didn't really look into the ruling yet. I'm not a big fan of the canon apc models so I'm using contemporary M113-s for tracked and Fuchs' for wheeled. I want to add hover at some point aswell, although as Blizzards (when they become avaliable), since I like the look of those a lot.

2. The above is merely a rough draft. I'll likely integrate field gun/field artillery such as mortars, when it comes to exotic things I'm a bit hesitant at the moment - it also comes down to whether the models are avaliable to be represented or not.

3. I've taken a look at the Sloth, though a Lyran design it is not my cup of tea really, although it is possible that I'd use them in a capacity that you described, as a transition and training platform essentially. The Infiltrator on the other hand seems quite interesting, thanks for the heads up.

ASF:  I would like to throw out a few more options:
Sabre (Interceptor/Recon Birds) made everywhere [basicly the AK of Aerospace fighters. so you can pick up replacement parts anywhere]
Stingray or Eagle (Interceptors)
Thunderbird (Kill other people Dropships)

Slayers if you can get them get the R model, you have the fuel for days compared to everyone else
and if can't get the R swap the AC and ammo for PPC and heat sinks for ammo independance



From what you have listed I had the Slayer R on my christmas wishlist already, as if it were up to me, I'd strap an LB-10X AC on everything, haha. Other than that, the Sabre sounds like a good light fighter and training vessel, since its armament is similar to the Slayer's close range loadout. Further diversifying the ASF compliment would likely make sense too, as (if I understood correctly) the Slayer is more of a "brawler" than an interceptor when compared to lighter, faster designs. Sturdiness and survivability is the name of the game for me, which is why I'm considering either upgrading the Chippewas or swapping them to Rievers.
Desert Harriers [3045 Mercenary Unit]

Information, the first principle of warfare, must form the foundation of all your efforts. Know, of course, thine enemy. But in knowing him do not forget above all to know thyself. The commander who embraces this totality of battle shall win even with the inferior force.

- Spartan Battle Manual

RifleMech

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #42 on: 08 March 2022, 02:50:39 »
1. Yes, that's the case, as in they are abstracted - didn't really look into the ruling yet. I'm not a big fan of the canon apc models so I'm using contemporary M113-s for tracked and Fuchs' for wheeled. I want to add hover at some point aswell, although as Blizzards (when they become avaliable), since I like the look of those a lot.

That's cool.  You might flip the words around a little bit to be more clear. Something like Mechanized Infantry - Tracked (M113 APC) or Motorized Wheeled Infantry (Motorcycles).

Quote
2. The above is merely a rough draft. I'll likely integrate field gun/field artillery such as mortars, when it comes to exotic things I'm a bit hesitant at the moment - it also comes down to whether the models are avaliable to be represented or not.

That's cool. Unfortunately it isn't legal to use mortars as field gun/field artillery. :( I'd be okay with it but it is a House Rule thing. Of course you could just call it a mortar if you wanted even though it's actually something else. As for the other types, no worries. You can always add what you want later when you feel comfortable. It's the best way to do it really.  :thumbsup: I don't know if they'd have models for various infantry types though. You might have to rely on different paint jobs to differentiate them. That or see if there's other infantry models that would work the way you're using the M113.


Quote
3. I've taken a look at the Sloth, though a Lyran design it is not my cup of tea really, although it is possible that I'd use them in a capacity that you described, as a transition and training platform essentially. The Infiltrator on the other hand seems quite interesting, thanks for the heads up.

You're welcome.  :)   Sounds good. :thumbsup:


Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #43 on: 08 July 2022, 12:38:31 »
Forgot about this thread but . . .

Honestly, Blizzards should not have a 3050s intro date.  Like the Brutus that came out in the same book, none of the base model tech restricts it from being a Succession Wars design . . . in fact as a small producer, it is easy to say they flew below ComStar's radar.  One other thing to consider would be the Knox Armored Car . . . IF you are using squad rules, since it's cargo is 1.5t . . . or remove the MG, ammo, and probably the fire control & turret to get the 3t for a platoon.

While the intro BA kind of stinks, the Great Retcon had powered exoskeletons available after Helm.  Some of those got armed and were available to mercenaries . . .the question really is, could it do what you need it to without too many downsides?
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Daryk

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #44 on: 08 July 2022, 13:18:34 »
Only after Helm?  I could have sworn all the necessary systems for exoskeletons never went extinct.  It was only armor that kept BA (or PA(L)) from being a thing.

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #45 on: 08 July 2022, 13:40:18 »
*shrugs*  Not sure, I know it was at least after Helm but if it is earlier so be it.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #46 on: 08 July 2022, 13:59:16 »
Minor point of order.

A "Command" Overlord is likely quite a bit more rare than an Excalibur, IIRC.

Maybe swap it out along w/ 1 of the intruders for something more common, even the Excalibur.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #47 on: 08 July 2022, 14:24:38 »
Except we have that bit of people adjusting/modifying Overlords & Unions over the centuries since the Star League.
Colt Ward
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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #48 on: 08 July 2022, 14:26:40 »
Only after Helm?  I could have sworn all the necessary systems for exoskeletons never went extinct.  It was only armor that kept BA (or PA(L)) from being a thing.

One of the MechWarrior scenarios in the old Kell Hounds sourcebook, set in 3012, mentions an "industrial exeskeleton" in passing. No details or stats are provided, probably because it´s described as "shattered", but it´s there.

Of course, that same scenario also contains two autonomous armed guard robots that have turned against the human garrison of the depot, so I´m not sure how canonical the whole thing is.
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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #49 on: 08 July 2022, 14:27:51 »
Industrial exoskeletons date back to the OG TRO 3026.

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #50 on: 09 July 2022, 01:16:04 »
IO gives Exoskeletons an introdate of ~2100.

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #51 on: 09 July 2022, 07:04:19 »
My point exactly!  8)

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #52 on: 09 July 2022, 10:27:03 »
IO gives Exoskeletons an introdate of ~2100.

And how much longer would it have taken for somebody to improvise a machine gun or recoilless rifle mount on one, as the two-legged counterpart to technicals?
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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #53 on: 09 July 2022, 10:37:56 »
And how much longer would it have taken for somebody to improvise a machine gun or recoilless rifle mount on one, as the two-legged counterpart to technicals?

2100 1/356th . . . I knew they had been detailed and retcon'd to be more serious, but I did not know the intro date off the top of my head.  I just think some of the armed Exos would be better than the Sloth- better training & transition to real BA later . . . and not a death trap.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #54 on: 09 July 2022, 10:50:04 »
Armored Gloves are the "technical" enabling tech... any weapon (support or otherwise) with a crew of 1E or less can be carried by them.

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #55 on: 09 July 2022, 14:05:10 »
My point exactly!  8)

 :thumbsup:


And how much longer would it have taken for somebody to improvise a machine gun or recoilless rifle mount on one, as the two-legged counterpart to technicals?


Excellent question.


2100 1/356th . . . I knew they had been detailed and retcon'd to be more serious, but I did not know the intro date off the top of my head.  I just think some of the armed Exos would be better than the Sloth- better training & transition to real BA later . . . and not a death trap.

I can see better training and more experience. I like the Sloth though. It's not great but as a prototype it's good.

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #56 on: 09 July 2022, 22:04:06 »
Except we have that bit of people adjusting/modifying Overlords & Unions over the centuries since the Star League.

Huh?  People modify dropships that take a shipyard to do?
I think variants are much more a case of factory production runs, not individual modifications by ship captains.
The Command variants are supposed to be rare w/ lots of high tech comms gear & holo tanks & fancy toys.
Not something your typical merc battalion has access to.
Like how Wolf Dragoons had 5 SLDF era Mobile HQs was notable when most units had nothing or made due with an ICE powered Command Van.
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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Colt Ward

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #57 on: 10 July 2022, 00:53:49 »
Modifying a Overlord is not too hard as given by the only canon example we have . . . biggest stumbling block is money.  And for the 'Command' or other types mercs & militaries make, they would not be altering the hull/structural integrity of a dropship but rather the cargo & accommodations inside the ship.  Further, the Union & IIRC Overlord entries talk about how there are all sorts of 'non-standard' of those two ships floating about since military forces have had to modify ships to suit needs rather than during the tech decline just create a brand new type of dropship that fits their needs.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Daryk

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #58 on: 10 July 2022, 04:35:25 »
Converting cargo cubicles to just about anything else is as hard as stacking conex boxes, really.  I've seen the real world military use the "building in a building" trick more than once (to duck the onerous MILCON rules).

Failure16

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Re: Mercenaries - Upscaling Your Business
« Reply #59 on: 10 July 2022, 20:23:57 »
So, how hard would it be to convert ASF bays to 'Mech bays? By the rules on one hand, and "realistically" on the other?
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
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