Author Topic: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.  (Read 28031 times)

Red Pins

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #60 on: 20 July 2022, 23:05:07 »
...You know, CS, you should really look into following the Ngo storyline in different nations; I'd be really, really interested in your take in a Marion Hegemony setting.  As much as I read your stuff, I think it would be well-received by fans from the other factions.
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Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #61 on: 20 July 2022, 23:30:51 »
...You know, CS, you should really look into following the Ngo storyline in different nations; I'd be really, really interested in your take in a Marion Hegemony setting.  As much as I read your stuff, I think it would be well-received by fans from the other factions.

The Ngos really only work with the Lyran Commonwealth.  In the FWL they'd be "just like every other minor noble", in the MH they'd be just like the rest of the ruling class.  In the CapCon? same thing, in the Combine there might be a story-but it would end with executions, and the FedSuns doesn't work for slightly different reasons (they aren't generally in possession of both the raging economic wealth, AND utter and complete incompetence).

Liz only works in the LC, because that's the only place in the setting where she could actually stand out.

it's a writing thing.
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #62 on: 21 July 2022, 00:27:53 »
More like a steam explosion after it penetrates the hard shell

Sorry, I thought you were making a Douglas Adams reference (Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.)

monbvol

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #63 on: 21 July 2022, 09:35:13 »
There is one problem with the scene though.

Dropships do not ride in on the Warships.  They are detached.  The physics involved would tear them off a Warship under thrust.  It's actually been a rules thing since at least Battlespace.

Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #64 on: 21 July 2022, 09:57:04 »
There is one problem with the scene though.

Dropships do not ride in on the Warships.  They are detached.  The physics involved would tear them off a Warship under thrust.  It's actually been a rules thing since at least Battlespace.

Huh, that makes designs like the Potemkin even less reasonable, since your dropships wouldn't be able to stick within the air defense envelope of the warship escort.

interesting.

I guess that kills this one.
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Taron Storm

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #65 on: 21 July 2022, 10:25:04 »
According to StratOps pg 66:

Expending Thrust: If any thrust is expended by a unit that
has units docked to it, all such docked units must make a standard
Control Roll, apply a +1 modifier for each point of thrust
expended. A success means the ships remain docked, while
a failure automatically undocks that unit, and destroys the
docking collars on both units; as though both docking collars
the effects of the mishap based on the Margin of Failure (MoF).

I think a warship traveling at 1g should be able to keep its DS onboard. As for going evasive, that would also require a roll.  The techs will be working overtime to maintain the collars I think.
« Last Edit: 21 July 2022, 10:28:15 by Taron Storm »

monbvol

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #66 on: 21 July 2022, 10:50:48 »
Huh, that makes designs like the Potemkin even less reasonable, since your dropships wouldn't be able to stick within the air defense envelope of the warship escort.

interesting.

I guess that kills this one.

Dropships are often 4/6 so I'm not sure why they would have trouble keeping up since it is rare for a Warship to even have 4/6 as they have plenty of fuel for most transits.

So in a way it actually emphasizes that Dropships and Warships are meant to work together to mutually support each other for AA/AMS duties.

According to StratOps pg 66:

Expending Thrust: If any thrust is expended by a unit that
has units docked to it, all such docked units must make a standard
Control Roll, apply a +1 modifier for each point of thrust
expended. A success means the ships remain docked, while
a failure automatically undocks that unit, and destroys the
docking collars on both units; as though both docking collars
the effects of the mishap based on the Margin of Failure (MoF).

I think a warship traveling at 1g should be able to keep its DS onboard. As for going evasive, that would also require a roll.  The techs will be working overtime to maintain the collars I think.


Keep in mind 1g is actually 2 thrust.  The scene in question is having them doing up to 3g so +6.  Physics tends to be a cruel mistress.

Wrangler

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #67 on: 21 July 2022, 11:12:02 »
Dropships are often 4/6 so I'm not sure why they would have trouble keeping up since it is rare for a Warship to even have 4/6 as they have plenty of fuel for most transits.

So in a way it actually emphasizes that Dropships and Warships are meant to work together to mutually support each other for AA/AMS duties.

Keep in mind 1g is actually 2 thrust.  The scene in question is having them doing up to 3g so +6.  Physics tends to be a cruel mistress.
Where does it say 1 gravity is equal to 2 thrust in game? I'm just curious.
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Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #68 on: 21 July 2022, 11:25:08 »
Where does it say 1 gravity is equal to 2 thrust in game? I'm just curious.

Aerotech, Battlespace, and Total Warfare.  I dont' remember page references, but it's there.
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Taron Storm

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #69 on: 21 July 2022, 11:29:11 »
For protected crewmembers, the Primary Threshold is 22 thrust
points per turn (11Gs), while for unprotected crewmembers the
Primary Threshold is 12 thrust points per turn (6 Gs).

pg 36, StratOps for 1 example

Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #70 on: 21 July 2022, 11:30:59 »
Someone want to give the relevant section a re-read?  I adjusted it because darnit, y'all are right-they'd be separated and burning, with maybe doing unrep to keep the provisions topped off.  It's a two-week transit, after all, and the only R&R facilities they've got are on the warship, so crew would be rotating to keep the troops from going buggy.

but the over-all approach WOULD still be at one gee, because that's a health and safety issue for the payloads (ground warriors and ground crews).  How do we know this? because if everyone had supernatural gee-tolerance, it would've been mentioned as a trait, and pulling high gees for days on end isn't going to be good for hearts, lungs, digestive tracts, brains, bones, ligaments, or the cartilage of your joints.  (troops would arrive injured and exhausted from sustained high-gee manuevers, even if they were able to remain anchored down in beds the whole way, which does awful things for muscle tone.)

Fighters and escort dropships not intended for landings tend ot have preparations in place for that kind of thing, but even they don't pull them days-on-end, it's bad for the meat even if the gear can shrug it off.
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Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #71 on: 21 July 2022, 11:33:00 »
For protected crewmembers, the Primary Threshold is 22 thrust
points per turn (11Gs), while for unprotected crewmembers the
Primary Threshold is 12 thrust points per turn (6 Gs).

pg 36, StratOps for 1 example

note that those numbers are for a few seconds-like pulling an evasion maneuver before returning to course, or quick dashes.  there's PLENTY of data in the real world about what sustained Gee-tolerances look like, and it's not pretty on the medical side.
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Taron Storm

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #72 on: 21 July 2022, 11:48:26 »
A lot of TRO for fighters and such will have a statement of how many g's of thrust it is capable of.  It would be easy to compare with the game stats.

Scytha from the TRO3055Upgrades pg 196
Capable of delivering almost 5 gees of thrust, it can
outmaneuver its immediate rivals and deliver its formidable
weapons load—almost half its weight—where its armaments
are most effective.
Game stats: 6/9 thrust

Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #73 on: 21 July 2022, 11:58:47 »
"Duchess Ngo, you have killed Galaxy Commander Icaza, and several of our officers with your...

...cowardly weapon."


Elizabeth leaned back in the RTO Station of the U-One.

"Oh? that's nice." she said, "Are you guys going to do the smart thing then, and go home?"

"The whole purpose of Operation Revival is to return to our HOME!!"

"Kowloon has never been the home of the STar League Defense force, Colonel...it's Roshak, right? This system was NEVER your home. If you need directions to Old Earth, I'm sure we can hook you up, and you can go there, instead."

"Kowloon was a member world of-"

"Wir erinnern uns an das Abschlachten von Dinh Diep." she said grimly, "The scar should be visible even from that distance, Colonel Roshak.  Did you think we'd forgotten the SLDF's support of Amaris in 2729? that we haven't been planning to prevent a re-occurance?"  she spat, "Three hundred thirty nine years is not enough time to forget what happens when an SLDF battleship comes to orbit seeking to 'restore an order'.  Go home, or go back to your mission and retake old Earth and the Sol system, we are not on your route, Außenseiter."

There was silence on the channel, and then, "Warriors have died without honorable battle, we are going to liberate you from the traitor lords and restore the Star League.  This could have gone so much more easily for you if you had not chosen such a dezgra tactic."

"It would have gone easier for you, the Inheritors of the Star League Defense Force, if you had come as friends instead of conquerors." she spat back, "but you came as thieves, not family, which I guess is in keeping with your oathbreaker ancestors, but let me explain to you what you were too stupid to understand." she flushed in anger she rarely admitted to feeling anymore.  "Your ancestors were practically worshipped by most of the human race! a promised return to make right what they did wrong!  Had you come as friends you would have been welcomed as good news, but you chose to come on a carpet of blood, behind a wall of secrecy and silence, to take by force what those fools on Tharkad would have given you freely!  Let me be clear for you, Colonel Nathan Roshak; Your ancestors in their perfidy guaranteed three centuries of blood soaked apocalypse, trillions dead, worlds annihilated in endless war, war with out end, without rules, without decency. The desertion by the SLDF guaranteed it would happen and you, their inheritors, have repudiated the debts left by your ancestors and demonstrated their Perfidy!  We will not submit, Nathan Roshak, and you have given no reason to forgive the betrayal of MY PEOPLE by Kerensky and his Deserters!!"

she was shaking, and smelled cinammon and sweat. not now. 

"So I take it a face to face meeting is out of the question until you have been subdued."

"We will fight you in the orbitals, we will fight in the atmosphere, we will fight on the waves and in the streets and the hills, in the forests and the deserts, we will fight you in the wastelands and in the rocky glades, Colonel, we will never, ever, surrender again.  Go home.  MY people know the price of submission, what it means to be conquered, and we have pledged one and all, 'Never Again'."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Death_from_above

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #74 on: 21 July 2022, 13:37:56 »

"Never Again" as title suggestion ?

Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #75 on: 21 July 2022, 13:44:54 »
She closed the connection off...

and Nathan leaned back in his acceleration couch.  Savashri.  he'd suspected it, but having a spheroid say it out loud was a little galling.

"I do not care if you have to blanket every band and channel, I want that bitch back on the phone." he said angrily.  Her words hurt.

Damn that woman, we are the good guys here!!

Taking Kowloon wasn't part of Revival, keeping it out of the hands of incoming, jealous, homeworlders had become a priority when the Watch discovered plans by several rival clans to force an opening.

an opening that the Khan did not want them to have.

"Maybe a little more diplomatic approach, Star Colonel?" Morgan Icaza mentioned.  "I would say being intimidating has not gone well for us thus far."

"Too true."  there is always plan 'b' but...  Nathan was not at all sure that trotting Henry out as a challenger would net good results, especially now.

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Euphonium

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #76 on: 21 July 2022, 14:45:11 »
Tagged
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

BrokenLancer

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #77 on: 21 July 2022, 15:10:17 »
Neg, Star-Colonel Nathan Roshak; you are not the 'good guys'. And I say that from an objective standpoint- and not merely as one who is less-than-fond of Clan Jade Falcon...

Artifex

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #78 on: 21 July 2022, 15:22:18 »
Yep, well, unfortunately he's too topped off with "W R CLANZERS"-KoolAid. :D

DOC_Agren

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #79 on: 21 July 2022, 17:15:54 »
Star-Colonel Nathan Roshak, you do have Henry maybe ask him what the Kowloonese think of the old SLDF and ?  I'm sure Henry has not forgot who and what they were to his home.

I mean look at that paper he wrote...  of course to being willing to listen, means hearing some horrible but truthful stories that cut to heart of the Clan Way of Life.

"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Daryk

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #80 on: 21 July 2022, 17:41:01 »
Putting Henry on that call will only result in WORSE results.  There is no hate as the hate for traitors.  Liz might even break Henry in that very public conversation.  She values her life less than he does, and she'll 100% call him on that.  Kowloon is about nothing if not self determination.

drakensis

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #81 on: 21 July 2022, 23:36:25 »
Damn that woman, we are the good guys here!!

Keep telling yourself that, Roshak.
"It's national writing month, not national writing week and a half you jerk" - Consequences, 9th November 2018

Adjudicator

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #82 on: 22 July 2022, 03:23:18 »
Putting Henry on that call will only result in WORSE results.  There is no hate as the hate for traitors.  Liz might even break Henry in that very public conversation.  She values her life less than he does, and she'll 100% call him on that.  Kowloon is about nothing if not self determination.

I can imagine Nathan Roshak being told upfront and bluntly by Henry Ngo how he stepped on many toes and reopened a lot of old wounds.

To paraphrase a quote Tywin Lannister (A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones): "Any Faction that must declare 'We are the good guys' Is No True Good Guy"

Another relevant quote from Tywin Lannister that best sums up the entire story:

Jade Falcons: "But we have not been counseled on this!"

Kowloonese / Elizabeth Ngo / Henry Ngo (In each of their own ways) "You all are being counseled at this very moment!"

DOC_Agren

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #83 on: 22 July 2022, 12:00:14 »
Putting Henry on that call will only result in WORSE results.  There is no hate as the hate for traitors.  Liz might even break Henry in that very public conversation.  She values her life less than he does, and she'll 100% call him on that.  Kowloon is about nothing if not self determination.
No not on the call, but to hear what Kowloonese think of the SLDF force that deserted
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Cannonshop

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #84 on: 22 July 2022, 13:16:54 »
"They're sending out a Truce signal...

...Your Grace.  The Falcons want to talk."

"Or buy time for backup? Yeah, I get that...has there been anything from either side of the civil war?"  Elizabeth asked, "because if there hasn't? we might have to give them a chance to speak their piece.  I won't detonate nuclear weapons in atmosphere if I can get out of it."

Li shook her head, "no...well, nothing substantial, besides Nondi Steiner officially declaring you a traitor for refusing to side with Katherine against Victor.  If the LAAF shows up, odds are solid that they're not going to be here to back any of us up, they'll be here with the intent of delivering a punitive expedition, followed by show trials and executions."

The word Elizabeth let slip was a very bad word.  "Inform the Jade Falcons that we will observe a cease fire, and entertain a delegation, on the condition that they, too, observe a cease fire, and send a delegation to make their case, but make it clear we're not looking to surrender, we're just willing to accept a cease-fire."

"Ayeh Mum...where do you want to meet them?"

Elizabeth sighed, "Sub pens at Giap Island, they're mostly idled and there aren't any civilians there to get killed if things turn bad, plus the airfield there is small so it'll be hard to land anything significant unless their aviators have stick time landing on water without crashing...and let them have a corridor for approach that doesn't interrupt the Ferry service to the outer system-we need that."

"Ayeh...this is a bad idea."

"We have limited options, and if I can get away with not setting off the nukes we're NOT supposed to have? I'll play negotiation and hope for the best...but have a spoilsport fire mission loaded in case this one is a trick or shit goes down and we're at war again.  We're now in the 'find a way to buy enough time' phase of things."

"What's your play?"

"Get the Falcons on a hook, if we're REAL lucky we can use it to play 'lets you and him fight' and keep the Heinies from sending a punitive RCT down our throats with warship support until it's too late for them to win."  Elizabeth shook her head, "Or...make it so costly both sides decide they want to fight it out somewhere else.  Either way is good."


"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

mikecj

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #85 on: 22 July 2022, 14:55:46 »
Nice.  I'm surprised she isn't meeting in orbit.
There are no fish in my pond.
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Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Blade4

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #86 on: 22 July 2022, 15:55:54 »
Orbit risks the falcons trying to grab her or just shooting her craft. Them coming to her gives a advantage.
« Last Edit: 22 July 2022, 17:50:23 by Blade4 »

Daryk

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #87 on: 22 July 2022, 16:43:31 »
Said "cease fire" should ALSO include them ceasing to approach the planet with a ****** WARSHIP...  ::)

mikecj

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #88 on: 22 July 2022, 16:47:56 »
Said "cease fire" should ALSO include them ceasing to approach the planet with a ****** WARSHIP...  ::)

Eh... I'm sure the Belters can calculate the orbit and hit it if they choose. 
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Daryk

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Re: I need a title for this, I'll figure it out later.
« Reply #89 on: 22 July 2022, 16:49:42 »
True, but that involves breaking the cease fire WELL before telling the other side that you have...  ^-^