Author Topic: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'  (Read 16948 times)

Bismarck

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Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« on: 15 July 2011, 06:06:59 »
Circum-solar, inter-stellar, neighborhood, to range +500 pc (~1600 ly)

The following 'star-maps', of the IS, are graphed, according to galactic coordinates (longitude l, latitude b), whereby 'coreward' defines zero degrees 'galactic longitude' (Liao); 'spinward' defines 90 degrees (Outworlds Alliance); 'rimward' defines 180 degrees (Clans); 'anti-spinward' defines 270 degrees (Rim Worlds).  Thus, generally, galactic longitudes increase anti-clock-wise, sweeping 'spinwards', from 'corewards', towards galaxy center:


(source: SAO)


(source: think-astronomy)

For game-historical reasons, 31st century AD IS astrographers typically employ a 'left-handed' coordinate system, looking 'up' into the IS, from the galactic south pole.  That is in contravention, to 21st century AD terran astronomers, who employed a 'right-handed' coordinate system, looking 'down' onto the galactic disk, from the galactic north pole.  Thus, since the ensuing star-maps employ the game-ancient terran system, game-modern viewers will need to note the coordinates with care -- 'left' & 'right' remain unchanged, but 'top' & 'bottom' are 'flipped', so that the FWL / CC / FS spaces now stretch across the top of the star-maps, whilst LC / DC spaces now span the bottom.


Big Picture -- Inner Sphere & Outer Sphere, to 1500 light-years


orange arrow is solar motion
blue arrow is 'Local Fluff' motion

dark blue regions are hot, diffuse plasma (T > one million Kelvin)
pink regions & mauve regions are diffuse 'clouds' of inter-stellar gas & micro-dust
maroon circles are cold, dense Molecular Clouds (T < one hundred Kelvin)
bright blue circles are clusters of massive stars

blue arc, towards Orion Nebula, is 'Orion's Cloak' super-bubble shell (from Star Formation (SF) & Super-Nova (SN))
blue arcs, towards Gum Nebula, are super-bubble shells, from SF, in sub-groups, of Scorpius-Centaurus star-cluster (e.g., smallest shell feature is 'Loop I' Super-Nova Remnant (SNR))

royal blue triangle, towards Orion, is Geminga Pulsar
purple circles, towards Gum, are Vela & Vela Junior SNRs

gray concentric circles indicate increasing distances from earth (spaced 250 light-years apart)

(sources: Frisch 1997, APOD 1998, APOD 2002)


Big Picture with IS overlay (solid colors)





Big Picture with IS overlay (dashed lines)





Game Identifications -- 'Veil of Kerensky' associated with 'Gum-Scorpius/Centaurus-Aquila' string of Molecular Clouds ?

Clan space is located ~1500 light-years 'coreward' of the IS (depicted as 'down', on the above star-maps).  And, the 'Veil of Kerensky' obscures Clan space, from the IS.  And, sight-lines from the IS, 'coreward' towards Clan space, are, indeed, obscured, by the vast string of cold, dense, Molecular Clouds, stretching, 'anti-spinwards' to 'spinwards', from the Gum nebula, through the Scorpius-Centaurus cluster, and on to the Aquila cluster.  Moreover, these cold clouds, of the Scorpius-Centaurus cluster -- including that clusters' collections of young, big, blue, bright super-massive stars, 'budding out off of' those cold clouds -- seem to mark the periphery marches, of the LC & DC spaces.  Thus, the game can claim the 'Veil of Kerensky' to be astronomically accurate.



Game Identifications -- Geminga Pulsar within Magistropy of Canopus ?

At an in-plane distance of 160 pc, or 515 light-years, the Geminga Pulsar could be an 'astro-tourism attraction', in the MC:

« Last Edit: 15 July 2011, 08:19:32 by Bismarck »
their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

Archangel

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #1 on: 15 July 2011, 06:23:48 »
In the words of our forebearers...HUH?? :o

Why do I think you spent more time on this than the game creators did when designing the Inner Sphere?
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Onisuzume

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #2 on: 15 July 2011, 07:29:24 »
In the words of our forebearers...HUH?? :o
+∞.

Also, please flip the maps so the DC is in the upper-right corner like we're used to.
Helps to make much more sense for most of us.

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Demon55

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #3 on: 15 July 2011, 09:21:19 »
It is nice to see the IS map on an actual star map.

Onisuzume

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #4 on: 15 July 2011, 09:55:49 »
Here's one that probably makes more sense to most of us:
Image is *not* mine.

Seems to be 3025-ish.
The IS is around 1000 light-years from one side to the other, so the clans would be around one IS towards the top from the IS. Or whatever which way they're supposed to be. Image was mostly for scale reference, iirc.
« Last Edit: 15 July 2011, 10:48:21 by Onisuzume »

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BlazingSky

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #5 on: 15 July 2011, 10:17:35 »
In the words of our forebearers...HUH?? :o

Why do I think you spent more time on this than the game creators did when designing the Inner Sphere?

Well considering that the creators spent what, a few hours on a trip banging out the entire universe, yeah. Also, I just noticed the topic starter. I'm going to escape now, before the random science attacks.
I don't post to play nice with everyone. I post to posit my ideas. If this offends you, there's an ignore function.
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Lord Harlock

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #6 on: 15 July 2011, 11:03:32 »
And the catgirls start dropping like flies. However if anyone ever wants to create a stable superstate, they just need to get away from the Inner Sphere for a couple of centuries. Invading the Inner Sphere may be a logistical nightmare though.
« Last Edit: 15 July 2011, 11:05:55 by Lord Harlock »

VF1LAM

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #7 on: 15 July 2011, 11:33:42 »
@Onisuzume:  I think your depiction of the Milky Way and Inner Sphere within it are correct.  The editors at FASA Corporation had no problem with my description of the Clans as originating "from the galactic core" when I wrote my novel proposal in the late '90s.
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Isanova

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2011, 22:03:39 »
And the catgirls start dropping like flies. However if anyone ever wants to create a stable superstate, they just need to get away from the Inner Sphere for a couple of centuries. Invading the Inner Sphere may be a logistical nightmare though.

Tried that. It's called the Chainlaine Islands or Novo Franklin, I forget which
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Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #9 on: 16 July 2011, 08:41:55 »
@Onisuzume:  I think your depiction of the Milky Way and Inner Sphere within it are correct.

Onisuzume's posted picture is quite close to correct -- as you stated, the Clan came from 'coreward', on a 'rimwards' vector, out towards the IS, which is roughly 500 pc = 1500 ly farther from our galactic core, than the Clan homeworlds.  However, the Outworlds Alliance is 'spinward' of terra, meaning that the vector from earth, to the OA, points in the direction of spinning motion, of our galaxy's disk, around our galaxy's center.  Thus, on that posted picture, the IS should be 'flipped horizontally', left for right, with the FS & DC located to the left.  Worded another way, when looking 'rimwards', out towards the IS, the Clans' 'viewing vector' would basically be:

view of IS, from 'coreward', out along 'rimward' vector

(cf. other visualizations)

Please note, that the stars, residing in the disk of our galaxy, whirl around the galactic core, 'in plane', with little regard, for the 'weather conditions', in the 'Milky Way meteorology' images, that this writer posted previously.  Worded another way, and with another, closer-in view, our galactic disk has a 'stellar component' (stars), and an 'inter-stellar component' (gas & micro-dust):

view from north galactic pole, down onto galactic disk, depicting diffuse 'space weather conditions'


The game designers may have been well aware, of the 'astro-graphy', of our solar neighborhood.  For instance, the IS seems to 'fully fill out' the 'Local Bubble', hundreds of light-years across, in which our solar system currently resides.  And, notice that the IS state capitals tend to avoid the densest 'clouds'.  Space weather affects passing star systems, and such dense 'high pressure zones' impinge upon stellar 'astro-spheres' -- the heliospheres of other stars -- and interfere with intra-star-system, inter-planetary, radio communications (e.g., satellite traffic, Jump-Point-to-Inhabited-Planet communications).  Indeed, the 'Local Fluff', a train of SN shock 'shells', sweeping through the IS, are threaded-through, by high-intensity, inter-stellar, magnetic fields, which would also affect 'space weather' conditions.

Moreover, 'star-maps' of the IS depict a 'dark rift', devoid of human-inhabited star systems, located 'behind' Luthien (periphery-ward, away from earth), in DC space.  That 'dark rift' coincides conspicuously closely, with the Aquila 'Rift', a dark, dense, cold Giant Molecular Cloud (GMC), that may hide some star formation deep within its bowels.  And, again, the places where the inter-stellar 'space weather' begins to get grim, seems to coincide closely, with the peripheral limits, of (game-modern) human-inhabited space.

Some other (game-ancient, 21st century AD) human astronomers' star-charts:

view 'down onto disk', from north galactic pole, with 'spinward' up, and 'coreward' right
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3811/istopview2.jpg

'in-disk', 'in-plane', 'spinward' viewing vector (from Rim Worlds to Outworlds)
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4606/issideview.jpg




their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

Frabby

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #10 on: 16 July 2011, 10:12:09 »
I already posted this in another thread a while ago (may have been lost in the latest forum crash), but as far as I know many of the original systems in BattleTech were determined by using a real-world stellar catalogue and converting its 3-d coordinates relative to Sol/Terra into 2d coordinates for BattleTech. The 3d-->2d conversion somehow (unsurprisingly) caused certain... gross inaccuracies. I think in some cases, direction was mixed up with distance. Or something like that. Plus, a large number of plainly made-up systems were added in.
I haven't  been able to find the original posting where someone explained how FASA had allegedly determined map locations (dim memory it may have been posted by Oystein, Peter Smith or Roosterboy?).

Way back on the old forum somebody once tried to extrapolate the original formula by comparing BT star system locations with their real-world counterparts.
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Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #11 on: 16 July 2011, 11:28:54 »
Game terms -- 'Space-Weather Control' ??

The 'Local Fluff' is a train of expanding shock-shells, sweeping through the solar neighborhood.  Emanating from the Scorpius-Centaurus star cluster -- a region of active star formation (SF), and ensuing Super-Novae (SN) -- they have propagated across inter-stellar space, for hundreds of thousands of years.  They are waves of shock-compressed 'space gas', the eons-ancient 'thunder', of SF & SN, which occurred before fully modern humans, on earth, had even evolved.  The shock-shells are 'threaded-through', by strong inter-stellar magnetic fields, which can compress the 'astro-spheres' protecting the planets, residing within the star systems, that the shock-shells 'sweep past'.  And, thereby, inter-stellar 'space weather', can influence inter-planetary (intra-star-system) 'space weather':

Quote
The '[Local] Fluff' is strongly magnetized [and] strong magnetic fields could compress the heliosphere... Compression could allow more cosmic rays to reach the inner solar system, possibly affecting terrestrial climate and the ability of astronauts to travel safely through space.



In game terms, these shock-fronts could be 'creatively construed', as influencing the inter-stellar state boundaries, between the LC & DC, and, especially, between the CC & FS.  Also, if planetary 'weather control' technologies are already game-ancient reality, then perhaps game-modern star systems (e.g., state capitals) possess inter-planetary 'space-weather control' technologies -- designed to mitigate the impacts of inter-stellar 'space-weather fronts', or 'space turbulence', on their core-and-crucial star systems ('it takes more than a stray SN, to sink an IS state-capital star system').  Such 'space-weather control' technologies -- really big 'space-fans' -- might mimic, or augment, the circum-stellar 'magnetic cocoons', of those star systems' astro-spheres.  Such systems might employ lasers or particle-beams, to heat up and disperse (or otherwise influence) 'space-clouds'; or, they might manipulate magnetic fields, to counter those threading-through in-bound magnetized shock-fronts ('space ECM'):


(source: ESA)


Space-Weather Control HQ, 'pick-your-favorite-IS-state-capital', 31st century AD (cf. The Storm)


Space-Weather Control satellite, in 'deep orbit'


'space-cloud' dispersal PPC


'space-cloud' dispersal laser (source: 30green)
« Last Edit: 16 July 2011, 12:14:36 by Bismarck »
their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

abou

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #12 on: 17 July 2011, 17:43:13 »
That... is pretty damn awesome.

HikageMaru

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #13 on: 17 July 2011, 19:00:19 »
gross inaccuracies

Current telescopes show that Betelgeuse has lost about 15% of its size in the past 15 or so years, and its surface is highly unstable.  Some believe that its about to go super nova (if it hasn't already).  Of course, nobody knew this in the mid-80s, but even if Betelgeuse is around in the 30th Century, I doubt I'd be buying any real estate nearby it.  Also considering the fact that Betelgeuse is ridiculously massive, I doubt that in real life a star of that size would have any real estate nearby to buy.  Just sayin'.

ChrisSmith

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #14 on: 19 July 2011, 10:15:29 »
You're in for in it now.  You said Betelgeuse three times.
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HikageMaru

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #15 on: 19 July 2011, 10:42:02 »
You're in for in it now.  You said Betelgeuse three times.

+1.

VF1LAM

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #16 on: 21 July 2011, 21:04:56 »
Betelgeuse is totally '80s... 8)
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Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #17 on: 26 July 2011, 09:17:39 »
IS in relation to Milky Way & Magellanic Clouds (view out to ~200,000 l.y.)

The MCs are "anti-spinward" of the IS, "off the left-hand-side of the map", (way) beyond Marik & Steiner space, on most standard IS star-charts:


their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #18 on: 26 July 2011, 11:06:53 »
Betelgeuse has lost about 15% of its size in the past 15 or so years, and its surface is highly unstable.  Some believe that its about to go super nova (if it hasn't already)....even if Betelgeuse is around in the 30th Century

I looked online.  And, according to Wikipedia, Betelgeuse is a variable star, whose luminosity oscillates by about 30%.  It has probably 'pulsated' so, for 10 million years, and will likely do so, for a million years more.

From the definition of stellar 'Habitable Zone (HZ)'; and, from Newtonian gravity applied to presumed planets on simple circular orbits; then, w.h.t.:

d2 = l
t2 = l3/2 / m


where the lower-case letters denote the star-in-question's relevant parameters (HZ radius, luminosity, mass), in 'solar normalized' numbers.  Now, Betelgeuse, in relative-to-our-sun units, is, on average, shines at ~160,000 Lsun, and masses ~20 Msun.  Thus, the circum-stellar HZ of Betelgeuse resides way out at a distance of ~400 AU, where the orbital period is ~1800 years.  Note, though, that "most of the star's radiant energy occurs in the infrared, and huge amounts are absorbed by circumstellar matter", masking & muting much of Betelgeuse's brightness.  Thus, 'in practice', Betelgeuse's HZ could be closer to the star.  Also, the star "is a slow rotator", taking ~30 years to spin on its axis -- so that, compared to the sun-earth system, 'everything happens in slow motion' (star spin, planet orbit, etc.).

Now, the in-game-universe human-colonized world has "over 20 commercial factory complexes in the northern hemisphere producing over 30 percent of all Capellan consumer and luxury goods" (ISA).  And, the world's still-surviving native life-forms are primarily marine animals (Sarna).  Perhaps, then, that world -- the main production site, for the Vindicator 'mech -- has a large southern ocean, which helps moderate its climate.

Also, if the Jump Point is 2 days from the planet, then, at standard 1 G burn, that point lies only 1/2 AU from the world.  Thus, the Jump Point must be a 'pirate point', designed to avoid the erratic central star, and its surrounding shroud of shifting circum-stellar plasmas, which extend out to ~40 AU, or ~10% of the way to the human-inhabited world:



Note, though, that the Wikipedia article says Betelgeuse may have some faint companion stars.  Perhaps Betelgeuse has a to-be-detected 'Brown Dwarf' companion, out at ~400 AU, with a couple of planets orbiting it, something like the inhabited moon 'Pandora', in the movie Avatar ??

For sake of visualization, computing the angular size of the central star, using the above formulae, w.h.t., in solar-normalized units:

theta = r / d = r / l1/2

So, for the Betelgeuse system, whose central star has a radius of 1200 Rsun, and a HZ out at 400 AU, the red-giant star, alone, would appear to be about 3x bigger than our sun, as seen from earth, or about 1.5 degrees (~2 finger-widths, at arms' length).  The surrounding shell of glowing plasmas would be about 20x bigger than our sun-from-earth, or about 10 degrees (a pinky-tip-to-thumb-tip Hawaiian 'hang loose' sign, at arms' length).  Days, on world, would be somberly red, a little like a red-light-lit military barracks room, at night, perhaps something like these artistic impressions (which have been selected, to try to high-light the diffuse, ill-defined 'boundary surface' of the star):







The on-world Vindicator factory might look like:

« Last Edit: 26 July 2011, 11:59:37 by Bismarck »
their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #19 on: 29 July 2011, 13:17:03 »
As also indicated by its comparable-to-solar metallicity, Betelgeuse is a relatively young star system.  As such, its encircling planets are also geologically young -- when earth was a mere 10 Myr old, it was a still-molten proto-planet.  But the Betelgeuse system is much larger, planets in its HZ would only have (star relative) space velocities, of 5 km/s, so everything would happen much more slowly, enabling time to cool off, w/o rapid showers of impactors (perhaps).  Also, the still-exposed dusty debris-ridden planetary system might be a rich source of minable minerals, explaining so many on-world factories.  And, any on-world life would probably be microbial and still-primitive.  And, as it happens, the HZ worlds have only completed 1/2 orbit since human settlement ~900 game-years ago; if the world is 'tipped on its axis', like Uranus, perhaps its inhabited northern hemisphere is drifting out of view of the star, and entering an ice age ??
their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #20 on: 01 August 2011, 00:36:01 »
Betelgeuse -- the evolution of a Super-Massive star

Super-Massive stars (M > 20 Msol) begin as big, bright, 'Blue Giants'.  But, quite quickly, their fast-and-furious core fusion burns up core Hydrogen (?), and the star starts evolving off of the 'Main Sequence' (MS), slewing horizontally to the right, on the 'Super-Giant Branch' (SGB), on the HR diagram.  This happens, as the Helium 'ash', from the first fusion phase, is reprocessed, becoming the fuel for the next, faster-and-furiouser phase, that fuses He into C,N,O:


(source: Astronomy-Online)

Now, stars the mass of Betelgeuse likely live ~10 Myr.  And, Betelgeuse has evolved nearly to 'the end of the line', at the observed limits, of the SGB.  So, Betelgeuse is probably about 10 Myr old, and is within <1 Myr of Super-Nova'ing.  By way of comparison, the similar-mass star Rigel, has only evolved ~half as far, off of the MS.  So, Rigel is probably about 5 Myr old, resembling Betelgeuse in its smaller-but-bluer youth.  In the following figure, the central bright spot is roughly the size of Rigel, compared to the behemoth Betelgeuse, so indicating the steady swelling of the latter star, over the past 5-10 million of years:



So, at its star-birth, Betelgeuse bathed its circling proto-planets, in 'hard' radiation (X-Rays, UV), which has steadily 'softened' over the past ~10 Myr (into the IR).  No wonder, then, that the native exo-biology is 'marine', having evolved under the protective shielding of on-world oceans (even as likely occurred on earth, ~4,500 Mya) !  Indeed, ~5 Mya, the younger-and-bluer Betelgeuse may have looked like the following visualizations, of Rigel, today:







"star seasons" -- Betelgeuse pulsates, with a ~6 year cycle, brightening & dimming 2-3x

Betelgeuse pulsates, 'puffing up' before falling back inwards, every ~6 years.  This is b/c the star's

Quote
... stellar atmosphere is inherently unstable. As the star contracts, it absorbs more and more of the energy that passes through it, causing the atmosphere to heat up and expand. Conversely, as the star expands, its atmosphere becomes less dense allowing the energy to escape and the atmosphere to cool, thus initiating a new contraction phase.

Indeed, Betelgeuse has swelled so much, over its millions of years of existence, that the bloated behemoth rotates extremely slowly, spinning on its axis only once every "several years".  These periodic pulsations -- from 'smaller-and-oranger', to 'bigger-and-redder', and back again -- would be a regular feature, of on-world weather, on inhabited planets, within the Betelgeuse star system.


Betelgeuse is a Trinary star system ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse#Star_systemBetelgeuse[/url] may have two stellar companions.  If so, then the closer of the two companions is ~20x fainter than the primary central star, and orbits the same, with a period of ~2 years.  Assuming a spatial distance, to the star system, of ~100 pc, then the observed angular separation (~0.06 arc-seconds) implies a spatial separation of roughly 5 AU *.  Then, Kepler's Law of Periods gives the total mass, of both co-orbiting stars, of ~25 Msol, of which ~8 Msol would be due to the close companion.  And, indeed, B-class stars, of that mass (e.g., Bellatrix), generate luminosities, ~20x fainter than Betelgeuse-prime (~7000 Lsol).  Meanwhile, the outer companion co-orbits at a distance of ~40 AU (calculated from the observed ~50 arc-second angular separation), and is some 60x fainter (~2000 Lsol), consistent with a ~5 Msol A-class star (e.g., Achernar).  Its presumed co-orbital period would, then, be about ~50 years.
* Modern distance estimates push Betelgeuse back to 200 pc, clear out of the IS.  Since, according to Kepler's Laws, total system mass scales with the cube of spatial separation; and, since spatial separation equals angular separation times distance; so parking Betelgeuse, 2x farther away, implies 8x the total mass -- or, an implausible 150-200 Msol !

Betelgeuse trinary system (radius plotted logarithmically)

(source: digilander)

Betelgeuse-alpha & -beta, seen from inner-most planet

(source: flickr)

Betelgeuse-alpha & -gamma, seen from HZ, out at ~400 AU

(source: flickr)


hypothetical images from Betelgeuse system

star-rise over the southern oceans

(source: Jeff Bryant)


(source: flickr)


high-noon over planetary capital



from a moon...


from space...


time-lapse animation, of Betelgeuse rotation
Orion's Arm
« Last Edit: 01 August 2011, 01:14:58 by Bismarck »
their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?

abou

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #21 on: 01 August 2011, 04:25:46 »
I guess the question is, if the surface of the habitable planet in the Betelgeuse system were to be "liveable" in that it has water and a breathable atmosphere, would anyone want to actually live there?  With a a sun so close to the planet like that, would it actually be tolerable?

Sartris

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #22 on: 02 August 2011, 16:44:31 »
I guess the question is, if the surface of the habitable planet in the Betelgeuse system were to be "liveable" in that it has water and a breathable atmosphere, would anyone want to actually live there?  With a a sun so close to the planet like that, would it actually be tolerable?

I suppose that would depend on three primary factors

1) Is the temperature of the planet low enough to sustain life?
2) Does the atmosphere of the planet deflect enough radiation to make sure all the children born don't have four legs and a claw?
3) (Most importantly) Does it creep you the **** out that the sun takes of half of the sky?

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #23 on: 02 August 2011, 19:01:20 »
3) (Most importantly) Does it creep you the **** out that the sun takes of half of the sky?
Best tan coverage ever.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Bismarck

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Re: Inner Sphere 'Astrography'
« Reply #24 on: 05 August 2011, 23:02:34 »
Betelgeuse b ?


(source: visions 2200)




(source: science photo)

Due to eons of star pulsations, the Betelgeuse star-system is choked-full of gas (to 1000 AU) and dust (to 3000 AU) (Kaler. 100 Greatest Stars, p.33).  The system HZ resides well within those minimum limits (~400 AU):



All that inter-planetary debris would create a brilliant glow, in the planetary 'eccliptic' plane (Zodiacal light); and, would create frequent-if-not-constant shooting-stars & meteor-showers:






Antares -- Betelgeuse' Lyran cousin

Depending on when one looks, at these giant stars, in their slow 'swellings & saggings', the one or the other, of Antares or Betelgeuse, may be bigger:


(source: one-minute astronomer)

Now, the (game-historically) Lyran star-system of Antares hosts a marginally habitable, and sparsely inhabited, world of (game-historically) "minor strategic importance", and whose non-descript nature seemingly provided the perfect cover for an "SLDF replenishment and resupply base" (since reconquered by the Clans).  Antares, too, is a binary star system, whose marginal world might look like the following:


(source: astronomind)




(source: nasty boy)





This video hypothesizes what the native flora and fauna of 'planet Antares' might look like.  And, the Antares star-system the same spectacular "dust displays", as its Capellan cousin, Betelgeuse:

Quote
Antares' huge size & luminosity promote a fierce [star-]wind, that blows at a rate of nearly 1 solar mass per million years.  The star has encompassed itself in its own expanding effluvia, some of which has condensed into dust, that is illuminated by reflected Antarian star-light.  Buried within this cloud is a much smaller, thick dust shell, that reveals recent activity.  Antares, and its nebula, also harbor...a hot, blue, 6th magnitude, class-B companion...450 AU away, that has not yet begun to evolve... The companion, lying deep within the dusty ejecta, has carved an ionized cavity within the great wind, about 1000 AU across (Kaler. 100 Greatest Stars, p.8).

Note that the Antares-B companion star orbits the primary, at about the would-other-wise-be HZ distance (~400 AU).  Thus, unlike the Betelgeuse 'close-binary (-trinary?)' system, the Antares 'wide-binary' system would dramatically impact the orbiting planetary system.  No wonder, then, that BT accurately portrays the planets of Antares as more marginal, than the heavily inhabited, industrial-world of Betelgeuse-b !
« Last Edit: 05 August 2011, 23:48:43 by Bismarck »
their rules (not mine) = "everybody dies, and from death, some are selected to slavery"

foolish farmers fooled forth from farms, to the field, at (e.g.) Marathon, where many men met determined doom, and all others, identified, were ever after relentlessly pursued & hunted down, themselves, their families, their blood, per policy of "pasture-ization", by (e.g.) oath-sworn Hannibal, patiently, for prolonged protracted periods, to present -- those have been being The Rules, for many millennia

honor is politics... right ?