Fight Night! TBT-5J vs ENF-4R

[Daryk]

Fair on the torso mount, though that's not clear from the Sarna article.  With rolling map boards jumping one turn and backing up the next should get you 11s for a 4 gunner (the other turns being running away to open the distance).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And you've still only got 8 shots.  So it's very likely that even if you can pull this off without any issues (which requires an unlimited map with no terrain), you're going to run out of ammo before you actually manage to score a hit, at which point you'll have to turn around and engage with your medium lasers vs the Enforcer's large laser and AC 10.

[Daryk]

I thought it kept both tons of ammo? ???

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The record sheet (at least from Record Sheets: 3039) only lists 1 ton of ammo.

[House Davie Merc]

The record sheet (at least from Record Sheets: 3039) only lists 1 ton of ammo.

Correct.
That is why both you and I earlier stated that it has 8 shots of LRMs .

After those 8 LRM shots the Enforcer has a large laser that can fire until it is disabled and an
AC/10 with 10 rounds .
That's a significant range advantage against 3 medium lasers behind light armor and why I give this
matchup to the Enforcer most of the time .

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, same.

[Daryk]

I stand corrected, and a little surprised TPTB tuned it down so much.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It's got five jump jets, five additional heatsinks, and extra armor compared to the stock Treb.  It's not like it's a bad mech.

[Daryk]

The HS are a bit excessive.  You only need 14 after the ammo runs out.

[Hellraiser]

Correct.
That is why both you and I earlier stated that it has 8 shots of LRMs .

After those 8 LRM shots the Enforcer has a large laser that can fire until it is disabled and an
AC/10 with 10 rounds .
That's a significant range advantage against 3 medium lasers behind light armor and why I give this
matchup to the Enforcer most of the time .

8 Tons v/s 9 Tons of armor isn't a massive advantage.
The Speed advantage on of the Treb is well worth that 1 ton of armor.
The Treb only needs to hit w/ 2 LRM salvos to negate that ton while outside the range of AC/LL fire.


The LL/AC10 are a great combo, but in a slower machine, its only going to take a couple bad initiative rolls or terrain limitations to let the Treb also be in close range where the 3 MLs will shine.
The Enforcer can't afford the heat from all its weapons while moving.
Meanwhile those 14 SHS allow the Treb to max jump & alpha the 3 MLs every single turn.
Or if it can manage a walk into range 6 it can alpha the entire array w/ any remaining LRMs from closing distance & put out more firepower than the Enforcer can match.  (24 v/s 18)

And god help the Enforcer if the Treb ever gets back shots on it w/ those 3 MLs.  IIRC its any single hit will open up the back for Engine/Gyro/Ammo damage.

It has free reign to Park at Long while the Enforcer has to close. (Shots on 9-10's)
It can also Walk for a turn or 2 while the Enforcer is at Long & it is at Medium (11-14 hexes).  (Shots on 8's)
Barring horrible luck, its going to connect w/ LRMs before the AC/LL ever get a shot off.

Once the Enforcer is at Medium (10) its stuck moving back at 4 hexes Jump/Walk while the Treb can move up 8 per turn.
Its going to get a total of 2 turns of fire at Medium Range against a +3 Treb before they are in knife fighting range where it will then come down to initiative to see if the Treb gets into the Rear of the Enforcer or is back out at LRM range for the last salvo or 2 while the Enforcer seeks S/M range brackets.

[Nastyogre]

If the terrain is any kind of clear, 5/8/5 should allow the Treb to kite the Enforcer until it runs out of ammo.

With 8 shots? I don't think so. The 5J has 1 ton of LRM ammo and it no longer has the Arm mounted LRM-5.  AS others said, 5/8/5 could only kite if the terrain was heavy. Even in a modestly open map the Enforcer could run to catch a jumping Trebby, otherwise the trebby has to turn it's back. That's a bad idea. 

[Charistoph]

With 8 shots? I don't think so. The 5J has 1 ton of LRM ammo and it no longer has the Arm mounted LRM-5.  AS others said, 5/8/5 could only kite if the terrain was heavy. Even in a modestly open map the Enforcer could run to catch a jumping Trebby, otherwise the trebby has to turn it's back. That's a bad idea.

And once its LRM is out of ammo, it needs to close well inside the Enforcer's guns in order to do any Damage.  And odds are, that Autocannon will do more damage, over all, than that LRM.

[Hellraiser]

Meh, my estimate is the AC still has ammo when the fight is over (whichever way it goes).

The LRM has the option of shooting whenever it wants as often as it wants.
The AC has to be balanced against movement/heat each turn.

Likely the AC doesn't even get 10 chances at good TH#s before the fight ends.

[Daryk]

With only 8 shots, it should be easy to kite until it runs out of ammo...  ^-^