Question about bloodname trials

[Metallgewitter]

Hi everyone

I have a question about bloodname trials: in the 3rd novel of the Blood Heritage trilogy Ulric Kerensky told Phelan that he waited for a specific bloodname to be avaliable. He also mentioned that some bloodnames were rising and falling during the Revival invasion. In specific it is about the Malthus bloodname from Adler Malthus who was disgraced by Kai Allard-Liao on Twycross. Said bloodname was open for a bloodname trial and no Mechwarrior wanted to touch it and so an Elemental took it (Taman Malthus). The book is a bit unspecfic but it almost sounds like as if Taman just showed up and said "I take it" and he got it without any real fight. Can something like this happen? That some disgraced bloodnames are simply open for grabs if the disgrace is big enough? Because who wants to fight for something that is actually "worthless"? Or is there at least a token trial required like a mock battle?

[Alan Grant]

Even mediocre bloodnames have a lot of value attached to them. I struggle to imagine anyone winning one without a fight and probably a full array of competitors.

I'd only expect the competition to be drastically reduced in the most extreme of circumstances, such right after the Wars of Reaving era, when a lot of eligible warriors were cut down by DNA targeted viruses and combat alike. But they would also react to suspend some Trials of Bloodright (effectively reducing the bloodheritage count or bloodcount), until the number of viable candidates has come back up.

The Clans don't like the idea of "watering down" their bloodnamed warriors by awarding bloodnames who warriors who potentially aren't worthy. They'd rather suspend that Trial of Bloodright until the time is better.

Ulric Kerensky was waiting for a specific bloodheritage to become available. Each bloodheritage has a history behind it, all of its previous holders, and therefore some bloodheritages are actually seen as more prestigious than others. He was waiting for a specific prestigious one.

The book Warriors of Kerensky page 39 describes a hypothetical. A bloodheritage of Bill Jones, a mediocre one, and the bloodheritage of Sam Jones, the most recent ristar in a line of ristar. It talks about how the latter will attract better warriors and more competition. The Bill Jones bloodheritage will attract its share of applicantsm but they won't be the best warriors, so the mediocre and ristar lines cycle tends to perpetuate itself.

The Malthus example is basically saying: this bloodheritage is traditionally held by a mechwarrior, lots of mechwarriors traditionally tend to compete for it, but very notably, every eligible mechwarrior candidate declined to participate in the Trial of Bloodright. That sends a strong statement about the current reputation of that bloodheritage.

I strongly suspect Taman Malthus still fought for it. I suspect there were still a full array of competitors. But the mechwarriors effectively boycotting the Trial of Bloodright put a weird spin on the situation, as warriors generally don't do that to any Trial of Bloodright, and it is almost basically implied that the holder of that Bloodname may be gaining a bloodname, but one with a particularly bad/rough reputation, and therefore, it will be up to that warrior to try to do something to restore its reputation. And hopefully not do anything to make it even worse. It is also implied that with so many warriors effectively boycotting that Trial of Bloodright, maybe the actual competitors weren't the best, maybe they were mediocre quality warriors. Maybe the bloodname didn't go to the best possible warrior. It put a negative spin on the whole thing. Mired it in controversy.

Normally winning a bloodname is almost nothing but upside, a tremendously important individual victory once you've won. This one is the  exception, this one comes with baggage. A lot of warriors declined to participate so maybe the winner isn't the best warrior possible. Also that winner is forever attaching their name to Adler Malthus and the destruction of the Jade Falcon Guards. It is now up to that to restore its reputation. Hope they are up to the challenge!

Of course Taman Malthus succeeds, does restore some of the Malthus reputation. All this turns him into practically a celebrity within the Clan. It's a very compelling story of how a warrior took a bloodheritage from rock bottom back up to glory again.


Pivoting to your token Trial question....

The only time I've seen a kind of "token" Trial of Bloodright play out was with Vlad Ward. When he saved Clan Wolf from being absorbed by Clan Jade Falcon, his Trial of Bloodright was very weird. His competitors basically stepped forward and instantly yielded (or refused to defend themselves, letting Vlad draw blood and be victorious). He even declared before the Trial was over, that he was fighting over a different Ward bloodheritage than the one the Trial of Bloodright was originally set up for. Normally such a thing would be unheard of, but everyone just ran with it.

Basically all the remaining Crusader Wolves wanted Vlad to be Khan of the restored Clan Wolf. In their minds he had already earned that, but he needed a bloodname to be eligible to be Khan. So they went through the motions to give him one. But that was a very unusual and unique set of circumstances in the storyline of the Refusal War and its aftermath. Even then, technically, he faced challengers. Even if they yielded immediately or offered no resistance. Which speaks to the importance of at least honoring the traditions of the Trial of Bloodright.

[paladin2019]

The book Warriors of Kerensky page 39 describes a hypothetical. A bloodheritage of Bill Jones, a mediocre one, and the bloodheritage of Sam Jones, the most recent ristar in a line of ristar. It talks about how the latter will attract better warriors and more competition. The Bill Jones bloodheritage will attract its share of applicantsm but they won't be the best warriors, so the mediocre and ristar lines cycle tends to perpetuate itself.

[spoiler]Of course the heritage of Flash Gordon is going to be superior!  :D :))[/spoiler]

[wantec]

The book Warriors of Kerensky page 39 describes a hypothetical. A bloodheritage of Bill Jones, a mediocre one, and the bloodheritage of Sam Jones, the most recent ristar in a line of ristar. It talks about how the latter will attract better warriors and more competition. The Bill Jones bloodheritage will attract its share of applicants but they won't be the best warriors, so the mediocre and ristar lines cycle tends to perpetuate itself.

Of course there are exceptions to this general rule. One example is the Malthus one, where a previously good blood heritage was stained by the actions of one holder. Then there are cases like Natasha Kerensky, where a ristar and great warrior just goes after (and wins) the first bloodheritage available and then by their own actions turns a lesser blood heritage into a better one.

[Hellraiser]

The book is a bit unspecfic but it almost sounds like as if Taman just showed up and said "I take it" and he got it without any real fight. Can something like this happen?
Or is there at least a token trial required like a mock battle? 

It was always a bit suspect to me that not a single MechWarrior went after that Bloodname, but, it doesn't imply that no one else bothered with it.
I'm sure that specific heritage was "historically" know to be held by MW of the blood house.  So maybe it got less interest....
But it wouldn't surprise me if Taman still faced off against some other Elementals or AS Pilots.

The Vlad example is a total outlier, basically he'd just done something that no one else in the clan thought was possible so they let him run the "Vlad Show"

[The Wobbly Guy]

Has anybody explained how they conduct augmented elemental vs aerospace pilot trials?

[Hellraiser]

Has anybody explained how they conduct augmented elemental vs aerospace pilot trials?

Conveniently missing from fiction, and probably why some Heritages are known for specific Genotypes.
Like Taman was an Elemental going after a MW Heritage.
Meanwhile Cyrilla Ward's heritage was also a MW Heritage but was so prestigious that Elementals & ASP went for it knowing that fights could go very bad for them on the coin toss.
Like Elementals having to fight Augmented & anyone facing an Elemental Un-Augmented.
 

[Alan Grant]

Has anybody explained how they conduct augmented elemental vs aerospace pilot trials?

A topic of much speculation and little canon facts and no real consensus among the community.

To start with, I suspect they avoid this as much as possible. In the preliminary rounds they'd probably pair up elemental v elemental or pilot v pilot, as much as they can. Even a mechwarrior opponent for either would make more sense.

But then at some point, it does become unavoidable in the later rounds depending on who is left.

I once toyed with a version of this where the elemental would be given elemental armor (for the protection and mobility, but no weapons to keep the suit light) and would be given a battlefield of essentially field guns (thinking autocannons of various types) scattered around in an anti-aircraft mode and that can be activated and worked by a single person in elemental armor, and that elemental would be able to bound around the battlefield from one AA weapon to the other, using them to engage the ASF. While the pilot would be in the lightest ASF possible, with minimal armor, and stuck in the Short VTOL mode used for landing (ASFs can't vertically take off and land like a helicopter, but they can S/VTOL which means low speed take off and land, so I'm picturing that the fighter is effectively put into that mode and can't get out of it) and equipped with nothing more than perhaps a couple small lasers or something like that.

Basically, reducing that ASF down to something akin to slow helicopter speeds and with no weapons that can one-shot kill the elemental. And with the short-range weaponry it'll be forced to spend time at very low altitude. Against an elemental running around, hopping onto anti-aircraft emplacements, firing at the ASF, but then needing to move on to the next emplacement quickly because once that elemental has given up his location the ASF will attempt to strafe that emplacement to kill both warrior and weapon system.

But that's truly my own speculative idea, and some people I've run it by didn't like it (some days I don't either, I flip-flop on it a lot). Like I said, there's no real consensus on this one. This is a whole discussion in and of itself, that Clan fans have gone over many times over the years. I know people who have thrown out other suggestions for a setup. I've known people who suggest that they may not have a choice, it has to be an unaugmented fight. But that almost definitely favors the elemental. The pilot still has tricks to pull, like setting traps or fighting in zero-G but it's gonna be tough.


Another idea I've heard that I can see working...

I once heard someone speculate that in the event of an augmented fight, both warriors would don marine combat environment suits or hostile environment suits (both are like bulky space suits with very good armoring), or even just more typical infantry field uniforms and armor, carry small arms and fight that way. That actually made a lot of sense to me. The elemental would get to exploit some of their expertise in infantry-style combat and wearing/using armor in conjunction with weapons. The pilot gets to avoid a hand-to-hand fight and instead try to kill that elemental with a rifle or explosives or some other infantry-grade weapon.

In that augmented setup, I could even see some elementals with a fondness for a fair fight, an honorably won battle, actually selecting the augmented option to settle it in a gunfight. That's one of the upsides to this idea in my head. It presents an interesting set of pros and cons for each combatant and it presents the possibility that even if the elemental won the coin, they might choose either option.


Regardless of what setup is chosen.... If all warriors involved know this setup (whatever it is) is a possibility in the upcoming Trial of Bloodright, then all elementals and pilots can prepare and train for it as part of their workup to the Trial of Bloodright. We know a lot of warriors grab a coach/mentor and spend time training and preparing for the big event. I think if everyone knows that this augmented Trial setup (whatever it is) MAY happen far enough in advance, and so has time to train and prepare for it, it becomes pretty fair and reasonable.

[The Wobbly Guy]

Maybe they have a bunch of converted crop dusters with machine guns and some armor for these duels. Any aerospace pilot shd know how to fly these right? :D

[AlphaMirage]

I also kind of like an Aerospace pilot vs Elemental on a moon or warship where the ASF (a light one armed principally with small energy weapons) can actually move slowly across a moon or space ship engaging an Elemental who possesses cover and probably an ER Small or later Magshot equipped battle armor.

[Hellraiser]

To start with, I suspect they avoid this as much as possible. In the preliminary rounds they'd probably pair up elemental v elemental or pilot v pilot, as much as they can. Even a mechwarrior opponent for either would make more sense.

Sadly, in Phelan's known example, this doesn't seem to be the case.
He ended up facing only 2 MW along with 2 Elementals, & 1 ASP.
That would be a LOT of other phenotypes coming after that Bloodname if they had been paired w/ like previously.


But lets step back & think about this a minute from the Protocol & Decorum perspective.

1.  25 Heritages & based on the Alder Mathus example, they tend to get "typecast/profiled" into following a pattern where each Heritage is funneled into one of the phenotypes.

2.  The 32 Nominees come from other Bloodnamed (24-25), the House Master (6-7), & the Grand Melee (1)   (The variation comes down to if the deceased left a "will" with their nominee like Cyrilla did or if the House Master chooses it by default.

3.  Most of the house is going to follow "norms" & nominate someone from the phenotype of that heritage.  (Clanners don't like "Rebellion"/Wolverines, don't break faith)

4.  For a Nominee to get pushed forward towards a non-matching phenotype heritage the un-blooded warrior has got to be pretty good friends with one of the Bloodnamed.
Not just "Your my Designated MW" kind of Friends, but, "I will go against the clan norms & nominate you for something that I normally wouldn't do because it will make me look bad" kind of Friend.
IE.  Not just a Drinking Buddy but a I'll bury the Body w/ You kind of Buddy.
That, or the Un-blood is owed a huge favor by that Bloodnamed, etc etc.

The Cyrilla Ward example was held up as a "this is NOT the norm" kind of thing.
Her heritage was apparently one of the most valuable in the clans.

5.  Finally, and this is just a personal perspective, but, any phenotype going for a non-matching heritage is likely going to be a target from everyone who is "supposed" to be there.   The danger is, if you win the flip, then you likely have an easier time but the animosity is going to be huge.  Meanwhile if you Lose the flip, then the standard phenotypes are going to be looking to KILL you, not just beat you. 
Phelan was being very kind and un-bloodthirsty in his Trials, but it was noted that Vlad was not & was killing his opponents IIRC.
Augmented Elementals won't get wounded & signal surrender, they will get Stepped on or Alpha Striked till there is nothing left.
Un-Augmented Pilots will likely get their necks snapped, etc etc.

[Metallgewitter]

5.  Finally, and this is just a personal perspective, but, any phenotype going for a non-matching heritage is likely going to be a target from everyone who is "supposed" to be there.   The danger is, if you win the flip, then you likely have an easier time but the animosity is going to be huge.  Meanwhile if you Lose the flip, then the standard phenotypes are going to be looking to KILL you, not just beat you. 
Phelan was being very kind and un-bloodthirsty in his Trials, but it was noted that Vlad was not & was killing his opponents IIRC.
Augmented Elementals won't get wounded & signal surrender, they will get Stepped on or Alpha Striked till there is nothing left.
Un-Augmented Pilots will likely get their necks snapped, etc etc.
[/quote

In the novel Natasha commented that there are risktakers who compete for bloodnames that are not their phenotype. The question is though are those all nominated? I can't imagine that those unblooded warriors simply say "I want in!" and then get a slot. I would assume that most of them are protegees of bloodnamed warriors (often high ranked ones I'd wager) who want to increase their power by getting more of their side into the coveted positions Like fo example  the Diamond Shark Xoc who was on one side a gifted warrior and on the other had strong backing by the sharks saKhan who later became Khan. She also sponsored him for a slot in a Hammond bloodname trial and he won the name. So simply sending one of yours into a loosing battle just looks wasteful unless they know what can happen and weigh cost and beneiftand then decide.

Also in regards to augmented vs unaugmented: there is still the mitigating factor the coin toss looser can choose. Like in Phelan's trial the second Elemental choose to fight in an industrial district and Phelan was given a Mech without machine guns giving the Elemental an advantage as Phelan could not blast the windows efficently

Also I just thought of something: what happens to bloodnames that come from criminal warriors? Like Coomodus von Houten who was sentenced to lifelong prison aboard the Prince Eugen. His bloodname wasn't stripped apparently. Would anyone compete for THAT name? Well they might just to cleanse it but the stigma would be a lot

[Colt Ward]

Of course there are exceptions to this general rule. One example is the Malthus one, where a previously good blood heritage was stained by the actions of one holder. Then there are cases like Natasha Kerensky, where a ristar and great warrior just goes after (and wins) the first bloodheritage available and then by their own actions turns a lesser blood heritage into a better one.

Which is one of the things Ulric points out in that discussion IIRC.

As for criminals . . . well, Conal Ward's was left vacant until after the Refusal War and presumably re-instated with the rise of the Crusader Wolves.  I would expect that Ward heritage to remain vacant among the Wardens.

[Hellraiser]

The question is though are those all nominated? I can't imagine that those unblooded warriors simply say "I want in!" and then get a slot. I would assume that most of them are protegees of bloodnamed warriors (often high ranked ones I'd wager) who want to increase their power by getting more of their side into the coveted positions Like fo example  the Diamond Shark Xoc who was on one side a gifted warrior and on the other had strong backing by the sharks saKhan who later became Khan. She also sponsored him for a slot in a Hammond bloodname trial and he won the name. So simply sending one of yours into a loosing battle just looks wasteful unless they know what can happen and weigh cost and beneiftand then decide.[/quote]

[/quote]Also in regards to augmented vs unaugmented: there is still the mitigating factor the coin toss looser can choose. Like in Phelan's trial the second Elemental choose to fight in an industrial district and Phelan was given a Mech without machine guns giving the Elemental an advantage as Phelan could not blast the windows efficently[/quote]

[/quote]Also I just thought of something: what happens to bloodnames that come from criminal warriors? Like Coomodus von Houten who was sentenced to lifelong prison aboard the Prince Eugen. His bloodname wasn't stripped apparently. Would anyone compete for THAT name? Well they might just to cleanse it but the stigma would be a lot [/quote]

1.  They have to be nominated, or try for the grand melee
As you say it would have to be quite the favor to be pushed into the wrong heritage, because it IS very much like wasting a protégé.
I can't imagine someone foolish enough to Grand Melee outside their Phenotype.  Talk about imbalanced & a target for group fire.
The ASF seems like it has an edge, till 20 MW gang fire on it.   The Mech is truly the "King" among Elementals, till the entire battlefield swarms him.
This really is a situation of "don't be a douche" or "stay in your lane".

2.  Exactly, the coin toss turns an advantage to disadvantage quickly.  Which is why Natasha point out that it is rare & only risk takers try it.  Failure is likely death.

3.  The Blood House Leader has to decide to put it up for trial, its possible the don't due to the disgrace or the Khan might suggest not to, or, that heritage could be attacked for Reaving due to the disgrace & "bad genes" of it.
As for Wanting it, few would, other than it IS a blood name, but this is a culture that wants to be the Best of the Best.  So the truly elite would probably skip it & only those that had no chance of Nomination for a better name, IE, the Regulars, would go for it.  Or as Taman did, took it from another Phenotype due to complete lack of competition.

[Alan Grant]

Sadly, in Phelan's known example, this doesn't seem to be the case.
He ended up facing only 2 MW along with 2 Elementals, & 1 ASP.
That would be a LOT of other phenotypes coming after that Bloodname if they had been paired w/ like previously.

I really only meant they may try to delay elemental versus pilot until the later rounds through stacking the matches that way, if possible. Those other mixes, mechwarrior versus pilot or elemental, fine with that in early rounds, and we know it happens based on Phelan's Trial. Elemental versus pilot just represents the most distant and arguably difficult pairing setup. If I was organizing a Trial of Bloodright, I'd arrange the match combatants so that's not likely to happen until and unless it just so happens that elementals and pilots are the only warriors left in the later round(s).

Regarding nominations. Yes, aside from Grand Melee participants and winners, all of those are nominated. But this does call attention to a parti of the nomination process that isn't explained.

The Trial of Bloodright nomination process as written/described in canon materials kinda assumes that all nominated warriors all want to compete. Which is apparently a bad assumption. As we've been highlighting in this thread.

So the nomination has to work both ways. You are nominated and you accept the nomination, choosing to compete. Evidently you can just decline. In which case I assume they turn around and nominate someone else. They need to fill all the slots with active participants.

I suspect some version of that happened with the Malthus mechwarriors. Either they declared that they wouldn't be participating prior to being nominated, or after being nominated. In this case with so many boycotting that Trial of Bloodright, they might have declared their intentions early.

To give another example, as we previously noted, Ulric Kerensky waited years until a particular bloodheritage came up. Did that mean he turned down previous nominations over the years as he waited for that particular bloodheritage to come up? Probably. That seems logical to me that it played out that way.

At that point the people handing out nominations, the existing Bloodnamed of that House plus either a either the Loremaster running a committee to pick nominations (in the case of an exclusive Bloodname), or the Bloodname House Leader (in the case of a non-exclusive Bloodname, start looking at the list of eligible warriors again to find new nominations.  (source: Warriors of Kerensky, page 38)

As for criminal warriors, it depends on the crime, but I could see a Reaving vote come out of that Bloodname if that criminal was notorious enough. Otherwise it would just be handled normally. But the situation could look like the Adler Malthus Bloodname situation, with some warriors opting not to participate. While the ones who do participate will tell you that they want to redeem the honor of that bloodname (such a tact would probably be looked upon favorably by the Bloodname House, and that could be a useful angle in the area of Bloodname House politics).

These Bloodnames/bloodheritages have been around for hundreds of years, held by many holders of that bloodheritage. I suspect plenty of them have some black marks on their record if you look deep enough.

The books just describe their quality i.e. a long line of ristars versus a mediocre bloodname. That implies that this speaks to nothing but warrior quality and battlefield achievements. But things like criminal activity, or the politics of particularly noteworthy past-holders would definitely be a factor in my mind as well.

[Metallgewitter]

From what I remember is that Ulric stated he had the opportunityies to win a Kerensky bloodname but waited until a specific bloodname was available. I think he also said that the name he holds had only 8 holders in it's "life" meaning that the name had distinguished warriors who lived long adding merit to it. He also said that this basically reinforces the hierarchy among the Clans with the strong ones competing for names with a certain gravitas while the mediocre warriors compete for rather obscure names. Though of course there can always be someone who elevates a bloodname to reknown but can also sink it's reputation. And we have for example the Jaguars who simply executed all children from disgraced bloodname warriors (the most extreme version)

[Hellraiser]

The Nomination thing, I would think, comes down to each blood named warrior having a few "favorites" among the unbloods.

Like Conal had Vlad as his chosen one.

Likely warriors serving under you, but those that you served with in the past or maybe just became acquainted with & hit it off as friends.

Point is, you probably have a few, and they probably aren't all elite uber warriors but a mix.

Chances are you discuss heritages in your off time & the Blood Named has a general feel for who wants what & if you know your favorite is waiting for XYZ person to die then you don't nominate them for DEF's name.  Instead you nominate your #2 if they are open it it.

Point is I doubt you get a "I nominate Bill" and Bill says "No Thanks" in front of the Grand Council. 
Preparation & Discussion before hand is likely the rule here.

[Colt Ward]

Which is not the problem, the problem is AFTER 1-24/25 are chosen . . . the remaining 6/7 are put forward by the Bloodhouse (supposedly on merits) which would have a list of the 'best' that were not sponsored.

Star Colonel Gregor Kerensky, who favors the ristar Ulric, decides not to nominate him for the available Bloodname because he knows he is waiting for Galaxy Commander Evander Kerensky to kick the bucket.  But the ?(Nic or Andrey) Kerensky Bloodhouse leader has to select 7 or 8 entries (who is Natasha nominating after all) from the rolls of the Bloodhouse who are most eligible . . . and if Ulric was a ristar, his name would be on the list.

BUT the simplest method to avoid declining would be to loudly make it known you were not going to compete for a Bloodname until old Evander Kerensky died before another Kerensky ever keeled over.

[Hellraiser]

Mentor, Blood House Leader........ either way it falls under "Preparation & Discussion".

Given Vlad & Cyrilla relationship, I would thinking speaking to your house leader is not difficult.


I'm just guessing but I feel like each blood house wouldn't have more than a "battalion" of total bodies at any time.
Probably more like a company & a half.  (Infantry figures, not Mechs)

Its 25 bloodnamed, I doubt a blood house could afford to run all 25 bloodname trials w/o repeat participants if some disaster took out all 25 at once.

[The Wobbly Guy]

I can't imagine someone foolish enough to Grand Melee outside their Phenotype.  Talk about imbalanced & a target for group fire.
The ASF seems like it has an edge, till 20 MW gang fire on it.   The Mech is truly the "King" among Elementals, till the entire battlefield swarms him.
This really is a situation of "don't be a douche" or "stay in your lane".

Man, i suddenly feel the urge to fire up megamek, put 29 solitary elemental 'points' controlled by 29 bots, myself controlling an (urban?)mech, within a small arena, and see how long i can last. :))

[Metallgewitter]

Man, i suddenly feel the urge to fire up megamek, put 29 solitary elemental 'points' controlled by 29 bots, myself controlling an (urban?)mech, within a small arena, and see how long i can last. :))

"Stop, drop, roll" all around the arena with Elementals as bowling pins sounds like a fun game

[Alan Grant]

I have a semi-related question. During this discussion I had this nagging thought that I had once read something in a canon book that called out a particular warrior, perhaps a mechwarrior, saying this person was one of the rare individuals to beat an elemental unaugmented. It said something like this person dragged out the Trial in some form of rough terrain until the elemental was killed or wounded via one of this warrior's traps. It might have said man-pits or man-traps.

This might have been as small as a sentence or two in a Field Manual book. I don't think it's a novel reference, I think it's a sourcebook reference that my brain is trying to cough up here.

But I've been digging around and I can't find it. Does anyone know the reference I'm speaking of?

I just have this nagging desire to find it again.

[Colt Ward]

You might be thinking of . . . the Rhino BA entry?  The warrior staged reloads around the circle of equals and IIRC set up traps, though it was augmented against a vehicle or mech, I cannot remember.  Mechwarriors do defeat Elementals in hand to hand . . . honestly, THIS sounds like the strategy for a Aero Pilot.

But it gets into one other aspect that the entry I mentioned is a rarity . . . while the Hunted can declare the battleground and conditions (IE, Phelan got zero-G while Marlotta Kerensky got mid-day) we do not see any other entry where a combatant can prepare the ground.  So if it was un-augmented then a warrior would have to avoid the other combatant and build the traps as it went- making it a sort of Hunger Games arena.

[Alan Grant]

That's what I'm referencing reminded me of. Unaugmented fight by either a mechwarrior or pilot against an elemental, the warrior dragged out the fight, ran around in the woods or jungle and set traps, after the match had begun. And the elemental was wounded or killed in some kind of trap.

I swear I read that somewhere but I can't seem to find it now, and I'd like to find it.

It wasn't a play-by-play of what happened, it was a very brief reference, probably on an obscure Clan warrior that got mentioned like one time. Like how you see with some of the Star Colonels and Galaxy Commanders in the FM: CC and WC books.

[wantec]

That's what I'm referencing reminded me of. Unaugmented fight by either a mechwarrior or pilot against an elemental, the warrior dragged out the fight, ran around in the woods or jungle and set traps, after the match had begun. And the elemental was wounded or killed in some kind of trap.

I swear I read that somewhere but I can't seem to find it now, and I'd like to find it.

It wasn't a play-by-play of what happened, it was a very brief reference, probably on an obscure Clan warrior that got mentioned like one time. Like how you see with some of the Star Colonels and Galaxy Commanders in the FM: CC and WC books.

You're close on the Rhino entry. It was a Trial for command of a Cluster. The Rhino Elemental staged missile reloads all across the area with simple pulley systems to all her to reload the SRMs on her suit. After many missile salvos she took down the Star Colonel's Black Knight.

[The Wobbly Guy]

There was also the one-on-one by Jeremiah Rose of the Black Thorns against an Elemental, where he set up a trap in a dropship to kill his opponent.

[Alan Grant]

I finally found what I was looking for. Field Manual: Warden Clans page 68. Under the Sharks 27th Cruiser Cluster (Alpha Galaxy).

It wasn't a Trial of Bloodright, but competition for the cluster CO slot (this would have been during the rebuilding period after the Battle of Tukayyid), which it describes as being very competitive. A reservist Jem Rodriguez beat Elemental Star Captain Torrence Maine in hand-to-hand combat. The Trial was in a wooded area and Rodriguez relied on speed and stealth to stay away from Maine until he fell into one of her mantraps.

[Metallgewitter]

Just thought of something: if the duel is unaugmented can the looser also ask for a specific sort of weapon? Like for example "we fight with swords" or something like that? I read that the usual trials like a trial of grievance can be fought with almost any weapon available so I would assume this goes also for bloodright trials

[AlphaMirage]

I believe unaugmented is always hand to hand but Augmented can include melee

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, augmented is a weapon.