Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

Sorry for double-posting, but had a thought very much on topic come to me.

I know the Republic has gotten plenty of fiction in a dozen different sourcebooks, but I think as an Inner Sphere power that was around for almost 50% of the game's history (BT started in 1984, ROTS was created in 2002, it is now 2023, so Republic was around for 19 of the game's 39 years, almost 20), it probably deserves a sourcebook/housebook where all that information unique to just the Republic could be put down.

It would be a neat fan-project at the very least.

[Stormlion1]

I think a lot of the Republic Troops that the Wolves adopted into the Clan will be used eventually to fill out the ranks. There is a reason those former Republic Troops will do so. There gonna want to keep There mechs, there careers. Leaving the Clan and there new warrior caste positions will mean dropping down into the Clans lower castes never to rise again. To most mechwarriors that will be anathema.

[tassa_kay]

They also have almost no allies left anymore, even Canopus is pulling away. I feel like the spoiler attack by Andurien will distract Liao enough to allow the Wolves to build their buffer.

The shift in dynamic in the Capellan/Canopian/Andurien sphere of influence has been, like so much of the ilClan era, really out of left field. FM3145 was pretty clear in that the CapCon and MoC were closer than ever, even starting to connect on a social/cultural level, and now that's seemingly going out the window for reasons, I guess. They really do need to do a better job of laying the groundwork for these things instead of making the conflicts so contrived and artificial. There's no reason why either Canopus or Andurien should be pulling away from/initiating hostilities with the CapCon right now.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

The shift in dynamic in the Capellan/Canopian/Andurien sphere of influence has been, like so much of the ilClan era, really out of left field. FM3145 was pretty clear in that the CapCon and MoC were closer than ever, even starting to connect on a social/cultural level, and now that's seemingly going out the window for reasons, I guess. They really do need to do a better job of laying the groundwork for these things instead of making the conflicts so contrived and artificial. There's no reason why either Canopus or Andurien should be pulling away from/initiating hostilities with the CapCon right now.

Andurien is going to Andurien at the end of the day. It's just their sthick.

The Canopus/Liao split seems to be that Canopus is feeling their military is being abused, the Magestrix feels like the Junior partner to Daoshen who disrespects her because he's dumb. It was surprising but not out of left field or untelegraphed. Plenty of alliances have broken down historically due to lack of respect or one power using the other rather than providing benefit.

[BrianDavion]

honestly the capellan/Canopian relationship breaking down is loooong over due

[Minemech]

Andurien is going to Andurien at the end of the day. It's just their sthick.

The Canopus/Liao split seems to be that Canopus is feeling their military is being abused, the Magestrix feels like the Junior partner to Daoshen who disrespects her because he's dumb. It was surprising but not out of left field or untelegraphed. Plenty of alliances have broken down historically due to lack of respect or one power using the other rather than providing benefit.

Their alliance with the Confederation still befuddles Free Worlds League fans to this day, along with Wallacia willingly defecting to the Confederation. It would have been like the Smoke Jaguars becoming peaceniks during the Clan Invasion arc.

[BrianDavion]

Their alliance with the Confederation still befuddles Free Worlds League fans to this day, along with Wallacia willingly defecting to the Confederation. It would have been like the Smoke Jaguars becoming peaceniks during the Clan Invasion arc.

the FWL/Capellan love fest has always kinda annoyed me, it's like the writers forget at how much abd blood is on that border all so they can prop up Chancellor Gary Tzu

[tassa_kay]

It was surprising but not out of left field or untelegraphed. Plenty of alliances have broken down historically due to lack of respect or one power using the other rather than providing benefit.

It was absolutely out of left field and untelegraphed. The last major update we had, which was ER3145 and FM3145, their alliance was deeper than ever and showing absolutely no signs of strain. It wasn't until Empire Alone that a problem was even mentioned to begin with. But the change in direction behind the scenes between FM3145 and ilClan has seen a lot of shifts like this (looking at you, RasDom). Andurien is at least a little bit more understandable in that regard, but it still seems odd that they'd randomly decide to poach worlds from an ally when they have actual enemies on their borders to worry about.

[Metallgewitter]

Anyone thinks the Capellans and the Mariks might build a new alliance of convenience? Right now the MAriks are in full out war with the Empire and if they ally for that purpose they could split the Empire between themselves (the world closer to Terra for the Capellans the rest for the League) with that the Capellans would have more jumping points for a potential invasion at Terra.

Also, the Capellans have one warship left. The Foxes destroyed the second in Shattered Fortress when they escorted Julian back into the suns.

And lastly: the average Republic citizen probably thinks that they might be able to beat the Capellans. They went to war two times and both times they were able to beat back the Capellans though I would bet that the RAF leadership would consider the Capellena Crusades a phyrric victory at best. The main question would be if they prefer the caste system of the Clans over the caste system of the Capellans. The Capellan system in theory offers more social mobility then that of a "pure" Clan once you have become a Capellan citizen. Or am I mistaken? And let's be honest the Republic had it's own version ingrained into their population: serve the state and you gain full citizenship which gives you full privileges (though I would say that a Republic "non-citizen" had also more social mobility then the average non-citizen Capellan). The Combine was for example pleasantly suprised with some of their captured population when they started their Ashigaru initiatives and had more volunteers then expected.

[tassa_kay]

The Capellan system in theory offers more social mobility then that of a "pure" Clan once you have become a Capellan citizen. Or am I mistaken?

It does. Capellans have the ability to switch to another caste if they meet the qualifications, and in theory can even gain entrance into the nobility (many in the Intelligentsia caste, for instance, are rewarded noble titles and estates for their work). The Clan caste system doesn't tend to afford people the same opportunities (punishments and test-downs notwithstanding).

And let's be honest the Republic had it's own version ingrained into their population: serve the state and you gain full citizenship which gives you full privileges (though I would say that a Republic "non-citizen" had also more social mobility then the average non-citizen Capellan).

And that's actually something the Capellans can offer them that's familiar: becoming a citizen through a period of service to the state, like the Republic also requires, entitles them to free health care and education as well as the opportunity to enter the caste system as something other than a Servitor.

[Metallgewitter]

And that's actually something the Capellans can offer them that's familiar: becoming a citizen through a period of service to the state, like the Republic also requires, entitles them to free health care and education as well as the opportunity to enter the caste system as something other than a Servitor.

The thing is though that free education and health care was something even a "non-citizen" in the Republic had access to according to FM3085. They had to put that in place lest they get sued for it. Would be funny if the Capellans look at that and think "you know that doesnt sound that bad" and adopt it

[Geg]

Andurien is going to Andurien at the end of the day. It's just their sthick.

The Canopus/Liao split seems to be that Canopus is feeling their military is being abused, the Magestrix feels like the Junior partner to Daoshen who disrespects her because he's dumb. It was surprising but not out of left field or untelegraphed. Plenty of alliances have broken down historically due to lack of respect or one power using the other rather than providing benefit.

Both states are situated to enter into a personal union when Danai takes their respective thrones.   I can see the Magestrix wanting to renegotiate their relative power levels before that happens.  Timing wise, the use of military force to renegotiate that point is opportunistic with Daoshen distracted towards Terra, and any Riwards issues would force him to split his army.  The invasion isn't really the break down of the Alliance (yet), but more the expected outcome of Daoshen not having complete authority over the new state he's putting together.

For the out of left field... 

I feel like it showed up in Blood Will Tell, and maybe to a very a hidden degree in Shattered Fortress.  My take is that the root cause of the fighting that started in Empire stems from Danai's elevation to heir apparent, which happened after 3147 or 8, and the ensuing court politics of that decision.  In the MoC, that official change would have united the two faction that wanted MoC as a full partners with CapCon, and those that did not want a personal union, thus giving the Magistrix a freer hand to take a direct military action.

[Church14]

I think a lot of the Republic Troops that the Wolves adopted into the Clan will be used eventually to fill out the ranks. There is a reason those former Republic Troops will do so. There gonna want to keep There mechs, there careers. Leaving the Clan and there new warrior caste positions will mean dropping down into the Clans lower castes never to rise again. To most mechwarriors that will be anathema.

We have one tiny snapshot in time, in a shrapnel story I have a lot of issues with, of how wolves are treating ex RAF. If they didn’t aid wolves to win the ilClan trial, the wolves dismiss them and want nothing to do with them.


As for the ones who did help, the wolves were at 42% of pre-Terra strength after absorbing the RAF bondsmen and WiE. And some of those RAF left after the falcons were defeated. I genuinely think RAF troops are a dry well for the wolves.

[Metallgewitter]

We have one tiny snapshot in time, in a shrapnel story I have a lot of issues with, of how wolves are treating ex RAF. If they didn’t aid wolves to win the ilClan trial, the wolves dismiss them and want nothing to do with them.


As for the ones who did help, the wolves were at 42% of pre-Terra strength after absorbing the RAF bondsmen and WiE. And some of those RAF left after the falcons were defeated. I genuinely think RAF troops are a dry well for the wolves.

I think a lot of former RAF troopers who joined the Wolves also left right after they won the IlClan trial. The Cheetahs are probably the most prominent as their leader stated "we only wnated to defeat the Falcons but we don't want to serve the wolves who destroyed our home" And as you mentioned said Shrapnell story the former RAf soldiers HATE those that are still serving the Wolves. That's one powderkeg ready to explode if it isn't diffused soon

[Colt Ward]

As for the ones who did help, the wolves were at 42% of pre-Terra strength after absorbing the RAF bondsmen and WiE. And some of those RAF left after the falcons were defeated. I genuinely think RAF troops are a dry well for the wolves.

The 42% number has a lot of problems whenever someone tries to use it beyond that day it was said, but that has been covered before.

As far was Republic citizens ranking Wolves vs Capellans . . . IMO why the Capellans will be seen as a worse threat-

Everyone on Terra would be declared a servitor for 10 years, the Clans at least translate people over into directly correlating castes.  Mobility in the Clan castes still needs to be explored since by the RecGuides we have seen some movement up and down.

Capellans putting Republic officials on Trial as criminals against the state- Shattered Fortress & Danai POV book covers this, though Danai was not doing it as much as the random Capellan occupation gov't.  This means all the Republic paper pushers that survived and every member of the RAF.

Capellans putting anyone working for the Republic of Capellan descent (broad definition, basically born on any world once claimed by the Cappies) on trial as traitors to their nation even if the Cappies had not controlled that world for decades.  IIRC this was covered in a Shattered Fortress sidebar.  How many people on Terra were from formerly Capellan worlds?

Shattered Fortress had the Capellans putting ex-RAF in re-education labor camps IIRC?  While HotW and ilClan did not address it, nor the Cheetahs, any RAF member has to know the Capellans are coming at some point.  Alaric has to know they are the next immediate threat- why the Wall was kept up- that will have to be fielded when he stops feeding jumpcores into the machine.

OOC bright spot, it is nice to see the Capellans getting back to their source material.

As far as MoC vs Capellan . . . folks are also forgetting that Ilsa is actually seeing some pushback from a . . . niece?  grand-niece?  Or was it cousins?  Which could all be cynical, them driving public sentiment against being the 'junior' partner in the alliance in a effort to take the throne.  To me that section read like a cadet branch being sick of the ruling line being a ruler in absentia and used the time w/o oversight to lay a foundation for a coup.

I know the Republic has gotten plenty of fiction in a dozen different sourcebooks, but I think as an Inner Sphere power that was around for almost 50% of the game's history (BT started in 1984, ROTS was created in 2002, it is now 2023, so Republic was around for 19 of the game's 39 years, almost 20), it probably deserves a sourcebook/housebook where all that information unique to just the Republic could be put down.

Actually we knew it was done . . . 4 or 5 years ago?  Whenever that Stone vs Alaric GenCon diorama was released before the original ilClan was put on hold.

BUT . . . yeah, the Republic has had several specific SBs.  ER Dark Ages and Wars of the Republic are ones that come specifically to mind.  Only at one point in time did they do faction specific sourcebooks, and that was 3060ish.  Even at that point only the five houses got their own specific books, the Clans were split in two, Periphery in one book, and minor IS factions combined into another- FRR, CS, WoB, and SLDF.  I am leaving off the CM/Force Manual series since it was paused, but that would have also been before the Republic's period.  Your best bet would be when the ForceMans get the later era updates.

[Metallgewitter]

I think the Capellans are somehow avoiding the thorny issue of incorperating Republic worlds now that Danai has been given this task. From the books it seems that she has managed rather well. But I agree there are several instance where the Capellans simply take everything and force the former leaders into the servitor caste. Not exactly the most efficient way to rule planets.

On the inter Magistarcy fight: wasn't that the daughter or Erde Naomis youngher sister (and sometimes called "the first Daddy's girl of the Magistracy)? Erde seemed to still play the role of rubberstamper for Ilsa but she stepped down for her own daughter due to her old age

[Colt Ward]

I think the Capellans are somehow avoiding the thorny issue of incorperating Republic worlds now that Danai has been given this task. From the books it seems that she has managed rather well. But I agree there are several instance where the Capellans simply take everything and force the former leaders into the servitor caste. Not exactly the most efficient way to rule planets.

On the inter Magistarcy fight: wasn't that the daughter or Erde Naomis youngher sister (and sometimes called "the first Daddy's girl of the Magistracy)? Erde seemed to still play the role of rubberstamper for Ilsa but she stepped down for her own daughter due to her old age

Huh?  She had one world, and Daoshen said it was to 'teach' her.  Daoshen is taking those worlds back and unlike Sun-Tzu during Xin Sheng, he is using the full rigor of standard Capellan practices on Republic and FedSuns worlds that 'were' Capellan.  This goes IIRC from the beginning of the MWDA setting, though it took later books to show the full rigor being applied.  I think Bonfire of Worlds had a pre-chapter blurb about dealing with the disaffected on Chesterton, but I KNOW Shattered Fortress had a lot of stuff- one sidebar I would swear was written by MadCapellan b/c it sounded like some of the Cappie stereotype satire bits he put up on the forums over the years.

[tassa_kay]

I think Bonfire of Worlds had a pre-chapter blurb about dealing with the disaffected on Chesterton

Not sure about ABoW, but ilClan actually has a blurb about the aforementioned disaffected on Chesterton.

[Colt Ward]

Not sure about ABoW, but ilClan actually has a blurb about the aforementioned disaffected on Chesterton.

ilClan or Hour?  I had been re-reading Hour, pulling up ilClan to research the Four Horsemen vs TRC/2nd fight, and started re-reading Bonfire . . . I could not easily find that blurb, but it dealt with the Cappie Duke of Chesterton talking about illegal protestors.

[tassa_kay]

ilClan or Hour?  I had been re-reading Hour, pulling up ilClan to research the Four Horsemen vs TRC/2nd fight, and started re-reading Bonfire . . . I could not easily find that blurb, but it dealt with the Cappie Duke of Chesterton talking about illegal protestors.

Yes, that's in ilClan, page 119.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Sorry for double-posting, but had a thought very much on topic come to me.

I know the Republic has gotten plenty of fiction in a dozen different sourcebooks, but I think as an Inner Sphere power that was around for almost 50% of the game's history (BT started in 1984, ROTS was created in 2002, it is now 2023, so Republic was around for 19 of the game's 39 years, almost 20), it probably deserves a sourcebook/housebook where all that information unique to just the Republic could be put down.

It would be a neat fan-project at the very least.

I would second that honestly: even House Arano got a sourcebook (due to its popularity I’d assume (I did enjoy it myself)).

Not to mention they lasted close to 80 years in game? Technically the FRR was around for less time as an independent faction.

[Colt Ward]

Not to mention they lasted close to 80 years in game? Technically the FRR was around for less time as an independent faction.

And never did get a sourcebook to themselves . . .

The Arano book was a snapshot- like ER Dark Ages- for a campaign.

[Geg]

even House Arano got a sourcebook

Wasn't that because HBS donated a ton of the art, and maybe some of the copy.

I would love an 3130-3145 Republic Source book.  Something that really showed how everything worked in the High Republic era, but post Stone, and then how it all came apart with the HPG.  With the necessary historical background work to make jive.   I also acknowledge that this books would suck to write and be a fact checkers nightmare.

The Dark Age Digest is good, but it's only 7-8 pages of "history.   It's just thin compared to the meat of a real sourcebook.

[Church14]

It’s not really that the Republic didn’t get sourcebook page time. I feel like it got a lot for a “new” faction whose existence heralded the longest overall peaceful era since the Star League. It’s not that the Republic didn’t show up in Novels. It was a participate and a protag in some DA novels.


It really just feels weird that we have no boots on ground novels focused on Stone or those around him. The most definitive character in the setting for 80 in universe years until Alaric took Terra and he appears in tiny moments in just barely over half a novel. As what was intended to be the bad guy. And then gets smothered with a pillow after he loses every single battle. That feels off.

A short series, 2-3 books, covering the Jihad, and maybe one during the Capellan crusaders would do wonders.

[Minemech]

 I do not think that a sourcebook would generate enough revenue. I hate being the downer on this one.

[Stormlion1]

Rather than a sourcebook on the Republic, a Campaign book for the IlClan Invasion might be better. Perhaps something like the old campaign books from the FASA Era with battles explained and mechs and mechwarriors listed. To make it complete a listing of the various units involved rather just 'snapshots' of a few.

[BrianDavion]

It was absolutely out of left field and untelegraphed. The last major update we had, which was ER3145 and FM3145, their alliance was deeper than ever and showing absolutely no signs of strain. It wasn't until Empire Alone that a problem was even mentioned to begin with. But the change in direction behind the scenes between FM3145 and ilClan has seen a lot of shifts like this (looking at you, RasDom). Andurien is at least a little bit more understandable in that regard, but it still seems odd that they'd randomly decide to poach worlds from an ally when they have actual enemies on their borders to worry about.

I don't think it was all that out of left field, we know Daoshen is a arrogant SOB so that eventually aliennating his allies is no suprise. it also really doesn't suprise me that there are people in the MOC fed up with canopian blood being shed in inner sphere wars of imperialism

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, the real surprise is that it took so long.

[Stormlion1]

It boils down to pride but also the longer the alliance lasted the more the CapCon looked on the Magistry not as a state but a future acquisition for the Capellan Confederation.

[tassa_kay]

Deleted. I'm just repeating myself at this point.

Back to the topic for the umpteenth time.