Author Topic: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread  (Read 70013 times)

tassa_kay

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1230 on: 08 February 2024, 09:42:41 »
No mention of the Demon, the Scapha, the Padilla, the Tribune, the Praetorian or the Trajan?
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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1231 on: 08 February 2024, 11:04:17 »
Some of them are used by the Republic, but I'm not sure if I'd call them iconic RAF units.

Definitely the Scapha though, and to a similar extent the Zephyr OmniDrone(and by extension the Diggs). Those are VERY Republic, I was thinking of them when I clicked on this thread.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1232 on: 09 February 2024, 03:22:51 »
The Trajan defintely. The coaltion at that time didn't see the value in it so all units were taken over by the Republic and they stayed there too. The JES are a rather IS common thing as it's manufacturer sells them to all comers.
Was thinking of the Behemoth 2 but that tank is also sold on the open market

BrianDavion

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1233 on: 09 February 2024, 16:29:37 »
funny how no one saw a use to a 3/5 infantry transport innit? :)
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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1234 on: 09 February 2024, 17:51:37 »
If the weapons load weren't so eclectic, I'd use it in every urban combat game.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1235 on: 09 February 2024, 20:29:26 »
If the weapons load weren't so eclectic, I'd use it in every urban combat game.

yeah the weapons load out is just weird.
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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1236 on: 09 February 2024, 21:50:21 »
It's got a definite "box of spare parts was stuck onto this chassis" feel to it.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1237 on: 10 February 2024, 06:37:55 »
yeah the weapons load out is just weird.
When the tank is a carrier of heavy infantry you don't need overwhelming firepower. Just enough to distract the opponent from the REAL threat. Plus the AC and missile luancher can both fire incendiary ammo so you can always cause some extra havoc

Colt Ward

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1238 on: 22 May 2024, 10:35:32 »
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84972.0

Since no bites so far, I thought I would ask the Republic thread to consider what sort of force they would put together.
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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1239 on: 02 June 2024, 15:47:37 »
I was recently re-reading Field Manual 3085 and came across a Republic Unit I hadn't heard of before, Stone's Stalwarts. Seems like they got destroyed by Liao Warrior Houses and never reconstituted.

Are there any other materials that talk about the Republic-Liao War of the mid-3080s besides this Field Manual? Like in chronological detail?
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tassa_kay

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1240 on: 02 June 2024, 17:05:27 »
Are there any other materials that talk about the Republic-Liao War of the mid-3080s besides this Field Manual? Like in chronological detail?

Not really, unfortunately. The best look we really get at it is in the preface of the Capellan Crusades in Wars of the Republic, and all it really amounts to is "the Crusades were intentionally fought like this earlier war".
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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1241 on: 07 June 2024, 14:03:49 »
The product that I desperately want, but will never get is a House book for the Republic.

BrianDavion

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1242 on: 07 June 2024, 14:27:44 »
The product that I desperately want, but will never get is a House book for the Republic.

I've long said that the biggest mistake about the house books done by CGL was they date they set them in.

3067 meant that the new history was eaither retcons, or a summery of stuff we'd been reading for years. the House books SHOULD have been set on august 6th 3132 (basicly the day before the black out)  and yeah given us one for the republic.
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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1243 on: 07 June 2024, 20:33:22 »
Handbook for the Houses took many years to make, that's why they were in 3067.   Closest thing we have for handbook for the Republic was the Field Manual: 3085.  Frankly, it would been nice to have more.  Era Report: Dark Age is another book that has some elements needed, but frankly isn't enough.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1244 on: 07 June 2024, 21:57:39 »
Handbook for the Houses took many years to make, that's why they were in 3067.   Closest thing we have for handbook for the Republic was the Field Manual: 3085.  Frankly, it would been nice to have more.  Era Report: Dark Age is another book that has some elements needed, but frankly isn't enough.

a lot of that is also conditional.  At the time, the game market was coming off a massive downturn (late 1990s through early 2000's saw more than one crash), and while the House Books (the 3067 ones) were extensive-they were also begun prior to the FASA collapse, and a lot of them dated to before the mid 1990s gaming industry implosion.

flash to MWDA and a lot of it is 'recovery era'.  MWDA started during the period that FanPro was still acting as license for both Europe and the U.S. , Catalyst was a suggestion, and just getting their feet under them, means finances were tight and licensing was an issue.  (the "No Published Fiction" era, and the Dark Age Novels)

this means a lot of what might've made it into a sourcebook series or series of novels? wasn't going to either because of IP control issues (Who gets to run novels? who gets to run short stories? how much of your sourcebook can be fiction?) and raw finances.  (Total Warfare was expensive, the whole collection of hardbacks were expensive both to produce, and to distribute.)

There's a lot of externalities involved in why the Republic never got t heir own book, and that's not counting the feedback from marketing and fan reactions and how those can be interpreted by the guys who have to pay the bills.

Plus, they were hips deep in the backstory of the Republic already with Dawn of the Jihad, including trying to resolve the individual blurbs Wizkids put out with special unit cards to fit and work with the prior story materials while allowing something to progress after.

and Catalyst was not a huge operation at the time-neither was Fanpro.  My contributions to FM:Mercs were paid with what amounts to a regular (not cashier's) cheque, because of all the infrastructure they were still dealing with setting up at the time.

It's kinda useful to acknowledge that this is a business, and it's a volatile business, sometimes the thing you think is ideal can't be done, because the resources just aren't there compared to where they ARE going-which is usually toward the safer bet until there's enough slack to actually take risks.  When the FM books rolled out to the stores?  they were set up for an era that was pretty sure to post profit of some kind, or at least break even.  in the early 2000's there was no guarantee that Wizkids' success would carry over to a sub-license property in the right way.

basically a LOT of the fans treated MWDA as "Klikkytek' and ragged on (and raged about) it unfairly.

so there was a lot going into that.  It's unfortunate that they capped off the Republic era the way they did, I suspect a prolonged war arc would've been better storytelling than what was delivered, but that's smoke out the casing now.
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tassa_kay

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1245 on: 07 June 2024, 22:32:27 »
basically a LOT of the fans treated MWDA as "Klikkytek' and ragged on (and raged about) it unfairly.

It's wild remembering just how true this was on here once upon a time.
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Church14

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1246 on: 07 June 2024, 22:53:53 »
In terms of finance, I’m not sure there was enough open interest in the Republic pre-HotW to justify an sourcebook that took significant effort just on them.


It feels like that novel retroactively made more people like the RotS

BrianDavion

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1247 on: 08 June 2024, 00:27:25 »
In terms of finance, I’m not sure there was enough open interest in the Republic pre-HotW to justify an sourcebook that took significant effort just on them.


It feels like that novel retroactively made more people like the RotS

and how much of that is genuine intreast in the ROTS vs bandwagoning on hating on the wolves. Because let's face it there is DEFINATLY some of that at play
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monbvol

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1248 on: 08 June 2024, 07:19:51 »
If anything HotW has made me feel like the RotS needs a little justice.  They were given such poor treatment in that novel and the lead up to it.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1249 on: 08 June 2024, 11:03:15 »
and how much of that is genuine intreast in the ROTS vs bandwagoning on hating on the wolves. Because let's face it there is DEFINATLY some of that at play

The thing is also that the Republic has so far more positive things written about it. The nation that gave the IS at least some form of peace while also usually not written as a nation that invaded others to claim whatever old birthright. Yes we have some dark hints like the "adoption" of several Blakist scientists as well as the resettlement policies but those seem rather minor. And if you would ask most the Republic is probably a rather "good" nation unlike the Wolfes under Alaric. Which makes me wish we might have gotten that alternate timeline where the Republic survived and Stone returned as some form of evil mastermind. Though that's not to say that the Republic might just return in some form within Clan Wolf. 
« Last Edit: 08 June 2024, 15:25:50 by Metallgewitter »

Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1250 on: 08 June 2024, 15:03:29 »
and how much of that is genuine intreast in the ROTS vs bandwagoning on hating on the wolves. Because let's face it there is DEFINATLY some of that at play

Saying quiet part out loud right here ^^^

Some people would become resurrected Clan Mongoose fans if Mongoose suddenly went up against Wolves

But it would not be actual interest in Clan Mongoose just like most of the times it's not actual interest in ROTS






Church14

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1251 on: 08 June 2024, 15:19:23 »
Though that's not to say that the Republic might just return in some form within Clan Wolf.
Wolves and Republic stand as polar opposites of each other. Stone and the republic tried to get everyone to stop shooting each other, and never tried to be on top because that only invites war. Alaric believes that the sphere must be conquered and subjugated by the clans.

Which comes to “the republic survives within the wolves.” How? Cause if Republic citizens and ex-RAF join Alaric’s war machine on his jihad to conquer the sphere, that’ll feel in no way like the republic. It’ll be someone who didn’t understand the faction slapping the name on more Wolf troops. It would - to me - be worse than just saying the RotS is dead because we’d get a constant reminder that this new faction using tje name of something more interesting. Like the nuJags

I’d love for Stone’s deathbed conversation to come true. That Terra keeps RotS values and haaaaates the wolves. That Wolves never ever get to be at ease and it’s always an occupied planet. Show Terra causing no end of problems for the wolves and making it clear they’ll never feel welcome. That would feel like something remains.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1252 on: 08 June 2024, 15:19:54 »
Saying quiet part out loud right here ^^^

Some people would become resurrected Clan Mongoose fans if Mongoose suddenly went up against Wolves

But it would not be actual interest in Clan Mongoose just like most of the times it's not actual interest in ROTS


Hey! Clan Mongoose had a cool insignia and a cool Warship and stuck it to the old Smoke Jaguars by blowing up their flagship.

But back on topic: a ROTS Field Manual set in…. Well any era, would be cool. We got some descriptions of them pre-3085 and then we got snippets from the Capellan Crusades. 3145 showed us what’s left at that point, but I would have loved a 3150 update (especially an order of battle for Terra!), but also to just see a list of Paladins at the end (or just an entire two-three pages dedicated to them).

Sure there’s a lot of hate on the Wolves and people flock to the ROTS for that reason, but it also works in reverse. Lot of Capellan fans because they hate the ROTS.

I do wish we would get more Jihad/ pre-Republic forming stuff but holding out for that is only slightly more possible than more Wolverine work. It’s one of those subject that while they MIGHT touch, it’s probably bottom of their list.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1253 on: 08 June 2024, 15:29:48 »
Which comes to “the republic survives within the wolves.” How? Cause if Republic citizens and ex-RAF join Alaric’s war machine on his jihad to conquer the sphere, that’ll feel in no way like the republic. It’ll be someone who didn’t understand the faction slapping the name on more Wolf troops. It would - to me - be worse than just saying the RotS is dead because we’d get a constant reminder that this new faction using tje name of something more interesting. Like the nuJags

My guess would be that Levin reaches an accord with Alaric when the Wolves suddenly realize they need the Terrans to fight for them. Levin is still on Terra (I assume) and he is one of those Republicans to do what's necessary. And maybe he can convince the Wolves to keep Republican ideas alive to make anew "fusion" between Is and Clan. The Wolves can't simply puit their system over Terra. It worked for the League worlds because they were just not long there otherwise I would have expected an implosion at one point

Church14

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1254 on: 08 June 2024, 17:39:58 »
My guess would be that Levin reaches an accord with Alaric when the Wolves suddenly realize they need the Terrans to fight for them. Levin is still on Terra (I assume) and he is one of those Republicans to do what's necessary. And maybe he can convince the Wolves to keep Republican ideas alive to make anew "fusion" between Is and Clan. The Wolves can't simply puit their system over Terra. It worked for the League worlds because they were just not long there otherwise I would have expected an implosion at one point
Problem is that wolf and republic culture do not overlap. There’s no fusion to be had. Best case is a Raven Alliance deal.

That said, your idea about Alaric being forced to cut a deal with Levin is a solid start to a story. I feel like the only way you still get a “spiritual successor” to the republic is if wolves are forced to make more concessions than the ex-RAF, but how run down would wolves have to be for that to happen?

Metallgewitter

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1255 on: 09 June 2024, 04:29:51 »
That said, your idea about Alaric being forced to cut a deal with Levin is a solid start to a story. I feel like the only way you still get a “spiritual successor” to the republic is if wolves are forced to make more concessions than the ex-RAF, but how run down would wolves have to be for that to happen?

That is a good question. The one problem i see for Clan Wolf is that they can't replenish their trueborn losses. And I mean "pure" Wolves from the vats. Even if they manage to push the Capellans of some planets that will cost them while their replacements in the Empire seem to get chewed up by the League (and we don't know if there is still resistance on Terra). Just think about it this way: if some partisans can, let's say, bag a handful of trueborns, that sidelines a star or even more. Then what? Recruit Ex-RAF members? While they can (and most likely will) adopt warriors from other Clans those are also a rather finite resource especially with the Bears being entangled with the Combine and the Ravens might have just bit more then they can chew from the Suns (at the end of DD they took Miligan and that might have been the straw that broke the camel's back).

Or think of it this way: how large of a garrison do the Wolves need to keep on Terra to control a population of 10 billion? That's quiet the weight around your neck when the planet is not pacified. Yes they have Warships to guard against outside attacks but an unruly population? Amaris had to keep several divisions on Terra and he had to deal with an active resistance for the entire occupation. The Clans and their rather alien culture might just stirr more resistance (not to mention the total destruction they wrought during the battles). Heck geneva, the old nerve center of the planet is a huge ruin and Unity City is under construction. Not the best starting point for a new administration that is at war

Church14

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1256 on: 09 June 2024, 09:33:48 »
That is a good question. The one problem i see for Clan Wolf is that they can't replenish their trueborn losses. And I mean "pure" Wolves from the vats. Even if they manage to push the Capellans of some planets that will cost them while their replacements in the Empire seem to get chewed up by the League (and we don't know if there is still resistance on Terra). Just think about it this way: if some partisans can, let's say, bag a handful of trueborns, that sidelines a star or even more. Then what? Recruit Ex-RAF members? While they can (and most likely will) adopt warriors from other Clans those are also a rather finite resource especially with the Bears being entangled with the Combine and the Ravens might have just bit more then they can chew from the Suns (at the end of DD they took Miligan and that might have been the straw that broke the camel's back).

Or think of it this way: how large of a garrison do the Wolves need to keep on Terra to control a population of 10 billion? That's quiet the weight around your neck when the planet is not pacified. Yes they have Warships to guard against outside attacks but an unruly population? Amaris had to keep several divisions on Terra and he had to deal with an active resistance for the entire occupation. The Clans and their rather alien culture might just stirr more resistance (not to mention the total destruction they wrought during the battles). Heck geneva, the old nerve center of the planet is a huge ruin and Unity City is under construction. Not the best starting point for a new administration that is at war
The inability to replenish trueborn losses, and an overall unwillingness of the RAF who wouldn’t join up for the ilclan trial to join up now, could lead to a position where wolves just need people and can’t be picky. This has been my hope for a plot - not just cause I’m tired of wolves winning - but because watching Alaric and his wolves being forced to compromise (better yet, have to beg/grovel/make concessions for aid) is the most engaging plot idea going forward that I’ve heard and results in an actual league of clans instead clan wolf and it’s mooks

Metallgewitter

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1257 on: 09 June 2024, 10:28:29 »
Depending on how the future wars go he might have to. And I would wager the Bears won't be very impressed after they lost a third of their touman because he didn't like the votring result. What might hint at a reconciliation between the Wolves and Terans are the BloodRibbons which were issued to the Canadian firefighter teams who tried to contain the massive fires that were set during the trial between the Wolves and the Falcons. Though that is the only point so far, no book so far has pointed out what life on Terra is now (well except a lot of ex RAF being very angry and frustrated, civilians in itself seem to be somewhat indifferent for now)

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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1258 on: 09 June 2024, 14:11:01 »
Problem is that wolf and republic culture do not overlap. There’s no fusion to be had. Best case is a Raven Alliance deal.
......

Their cultures don't need to overlap in order to go to war together

Fusion is something for later

As for controlling the population of Terra, they don't need to control it

They can just take control of those parts of infrastructure that are currently necessary for them to fight off the enemies and leave the rest of it on autopilot

Amaris had to garrison the place but Amaris was genocidal psychopath who made it his business to directly force everyone into worshiping him and immediately punishing everyone who didn't, it was self-inflicted problem

Wolves can just go with hands off approach which is what they are probably doing already





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Re: Ideas are bulletproof: The Republic of the Sphere Megathread
« Reply #1259 on: 09 June 2024, 15:18:05 »
Depending on how the future wars go he might have to. And I would wager the Bears won't be very impressed after they lost a third of their touman because he didn't like the votring result. What might hint at a reconciliation between the Wolves and Terans are the BloodRibbons which were issued to the Canadian firefighter teams who tried to contain the massive fires that were set during the trial between the Wolves and the Falcons.

I don't think "here's an award or stopping the disaster I'm partially responsible for" is really going to win over a lot of people.
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