Modern Covers

[pokefan548]

So, I just want to know what people think of the modern style of cover art, with the 3D 'Mech models used as a base.

I know a lot of the old art has... aged, and doing things this way greatly smooths out and reduces the long-term cost of art, but to me something about it tends to end up feeling a bit less satisfying. A lot of the covers are "protagonist 'Mech shoots at enemy 'Mech like in that one scene" or "'Mech stands around looking cool". It's fine for some stories but feels a bit weak for stories where the 'Mech action is a backdrop and pacing tool to the personal conflict, and in my mind it makes the covers blend together when they almost all follow one or two patterns. Say whay you will about the old art, you can grayscale and blur it and still tell one book from another. I don't feel that's always the case with the new art.

But again, I must admit that this method does ease the strain on art, which as far as I'm aware is the biggest current bottleneck in just about every BT project.

[warriorsoul]

 I like it but to me Battletech is pretty much inextricably linked to the video games and CGI art.

[Colt Ward]

Not a fan of it on the old MWDA covers . . . hate the head up by the title, and using some of the 'current' art is wrong- the one that comes to mind is a new Warhammer IIC when the Warhammer IIC in the story is a 4 since it was common in the game.  Also, Julian's Templar III being a Templar on the cover for Fortress . . . same with Jasek, though fact-checker let it get through on his final short story getting a original Templar.

The Shrapnel covers are great, recent fiction covers . . . depends.  I mean, Icons breaks the mold you were speaking about . . .

[pokefan548]

Not a fan of it on the old MWDA covers . . . hate the head up by the title, and using some of the 'current' art is wrong- the one that comes to mind is a new Warhammer IIC when the Warhammer IIC in the story is a 4 since it was common in the game.  Also, Julian's Templar III being a Templar on the cover for Fortress . . . same with Jasek, though fact-checker let it get through on his final short story getting a original Templar.

The Shrapnel covers are great, recent fiction covers . . . depends.  I mean, Icons breaks the mold you were speaking about . . .

Icons was definitely an exception I had in mind. It's a bit of an odd choice, but I'm all for some naval representation, so hay.

[tassa_kay]

Icons was definitely an exception I had in mind. It's a bit of an odd choice, but I'm all for some naval representation, so hay.

Would've been even better had the McKenna's Pride actually been portrayed accurately on said cover. 

[Colt Ward]

Would've been even better had the McKenna's Pride actually been portrayed accurately on said cover. 

Lol, yeah the TRO3057 look!

[SteelRaven]

Should start with the fact that this may come down to personal taste and mileage is going to very allot.     

That said, my 2 Cents; While there are some amazing Fasa era covers, some have aged terribly.

Honestly, as much as I love the mechs of the setting, many of the most boring covers are just mechs are the most boring. Some give as a great dramatic angle that gives us a sense of movent and a upward angle to give a sense of scale (we need to look up to see it) but too many are just robots shooting robots. Also not the biggest fan of the colors ROC chose to use for their covers in the early-mid 90's, giving Battlemechs the same colors as Transformer and GoBots. It was less space opera and more Saturday morning cartoon. A good number of covers would improved 100% with better use of colors.

DA novels are a mix bag but someone a while back pointed out most of the covers always put the characters up front much like the early FASA novel covers. Those 90's ROC covers I had a problem of looking like they were trying to sell you a toy, the ROC DA covers look like a DVD cover... though some of the DVDs you would find on the bargain rack of a gas station.

The current CGL covers have a good mix, the mechs are front and center again but rarely boring pose (a few maybe but that might just be me) and the character's profile in the background reminds you this is a human story, not a toy ad. It reminds me of a few source book covers like Shattered Sphere and FedCom Civil War, the action is on the for front but this looming figure is the driving force of the conflict.

... and no, I'm not going to get hung up on what mech is on the cover. If I was, ROC would owe me dental money for grinding my teeth from 1995 on from this gem:

I remember my friends and I spent too much time trying to figure out which mech that was suppose to be. My 12 yo brain couldn't accept a professional artist only used one point of reference for the Dire Wolf. Roger Loveless has a impressive portfolio but you can tell ROC gave him a deadline and he wanted to cash the commission check. So no, not going to get hung up on what Warhammer was use on the cover, as long as I can tell it's a Warhammer. 

[warriorsoul]

Should start with the fact that this may come down to personal taste and mileage is going to very allot.     

That said, my 2 Cents; While there are some amazing Fasa era covers, some have aged terribly.

Honestly, as much as I love the mechs of the setting, many of the most boring covers are just mechs are the most boring. Some give as a great dramatic angle that gives us a sense of movent and a upward angle to give a sense of scale (we need to look up to see it) but too many are just robots shooting robots. Also not the biggest fan of the colors ROC chose to use for their covers in the early-mid 90's, giving Battlemechs the same colors as Transformer and GoBots. It was less space opera and more Saturday morning cartoon. A good number of covers would improved 100% with better use of colors.

DA novels are a mix bag but someone a while back pointed out most of the covers always put the characters up front much like the early FASA novel covers. Those 90's ROC covers I had a problem of looking like they were trying to sell you a toy, the ROC DA covers look like a DVD cover... though some of the DVDs you would find on the bargain rack of a gas station.

The current CGL covers have a good mix, the mechs are front and center again but rarely boring pose (a few maybe but that might just be me) and the character's profile in the background reminds you this is a human story, not a toy ad. It reminds me of a few source book covers like Shattered Sphere and FedCom Civil War, the action is on the for front but this looming figure is the driving force of the conflict.

... and no, I'm not going to get hung up on what mech is on the cover. If I was, ROC would owe me dental money for grinding my teeth from 1995 on from this gem:

I remember my friends and I spent too much time trying to figure out which mech that was suppose to be. My 12 yo brain couldn't accept a professional artist only used one point of reference for the Dire Wolf. Roger Loveless has a impressive portfolio but you can tell ROC gave him a deadline and he wanted to cash the commission check. So no, not going to get hung up on what Warhammer was use on the cover, as long as I can tell it's a Warhammer.

Oh my God, I just noticed the legs on that Dire Wolf. I've seen that cover so many times and just not even thought about it because of how ugly the overall art work is.

[SteelRaven]

Yeah, not going to complain about artist currently using 3D models if it gets the mechs looking better overall. I'm sure Loveless would have made a better cover for us if someone gave him a Ral Partha mini of the Dire Wolf (I mean, he got the Timber Wolves right) 

[Colt Ward]

... and no, I'm not going to get hung up on what mech is on the cover. If I was, ROC would owe me dental money for grinding my teeth from 1995 on from this gem:
 . . .  So no, not going to get hung up on what Warhammer was use on the cover, as long as I can tell it's a Warhammer.

Both of them mentioned 'are' different mechs, I vs III & Classic vs Phoenix.

[warriorsoul]

Yeah, not going to complain about artist currently using 3D models if it gets the mechs looking better overall. I'm sure Loveless would have made a better cover for us if someone gave him a Ral Partha mini of the Dire Wolf (I mean, he got the Timber Wolves right)

It's certainly far, far easier to find reference material now in general. You can spend a few minutes doing some Google searches and find multiple examples of whatever you need info on.

[SteelRaven]

It's certainly far, far easier to find reference material now in general. You can spend a few minutes doing some Google searches and find multiple examples of whatever you need info on.

That cover was defiantly a victim lack of reference material and communication. Only reason I pointed out the Timber Wolves, it was clear Roger Loveless was more familiar with those machines in the background, maybe from the cover of TRO:3050 or from other sources (the Ral Partha mini, the Model Kit, another Fasa book) Way of the Clans also features a Dire Wolf on the cover but avoids making the same mistake so the references existed, it was ROC and/or Fasa not communicating with the artist and then slapping it on the cover to meet the publishing deadline.

Both of them mentioned 'are' different mechs, I vs III & Classic vs Phoenix.

The mileage is going to very from person to person. I personally more invested in the overall quality of the cover art. I can understand if the wrong model of Warhammer IIC bothers others more than myself but other covers have bothered me far, far more for far more fundamental reasons. I find using the wrong Warhammer or Templar model far more forgiving than "I guess that passes as a Dire Wolf? Send it to the printers!"

[Weirdo]

Would've been even better had the McKenna's Pride actually been portrayed accurately on said cover. 

Don't forget that there is no 100% accurate for any given Star League WarShip, because they can be either 2750s or 3057s, and the book is clear that Pride never got refitted to Clan standards.

It is inaccurate in that it's not a proper SLN paint scheme, I'll give you that.

[tassa_kay]

Ray said it was an oversight and that it was intended to be the 3057 version.

[Weirdo]

Ray said it was an oversight and that it was intended to be the 3057 version.

Which is entirely proper for a Star League battleship.

Sorry, I thought this was another perpetuation of the 2750 vs 3057 fallacy. Carry on!

[PyreLight]

I definitely think all the artists are super exceptional and really doing great work. I know that Alex Iglesias started the revival 10 years or so with the stuff he did and he's also provided some amazing stuff now. Marco Mazzoni is up there as well with his sublime artworks. And of course some of Anthony Scroggins' early work when he wasn't overwhelmed doing concept art and 3D work :) I think Ken Coleman is a great addition as well as I absolutely love the colors and lighting he use for the Shrapnel books. Really great stuff.

The only - and I am sorry if this comes across as negative - criticism I have is the new Alpha Strike box cover and the Alpha Strike Commander's Edition. Usually Spooky777 is an absolute master at what he does, but there's something about the new ones that aren't as good as the previous one. I'm sorry to say, but I think there's something wrong with the lighting or shading or something, because it makes the mechs mostly look like small toys rather than big stompy robots.

I think it's a downgrade going from this:



to this:



and this



to this



I mean, it's all good otherwise, it's only these two that I find to be downgrades and underwhelming to me considering the very high bar that Florian has set previously as well as the other modern BT artists. Sorry for the nitpick, as I really think everyone is firing on all cylinders these days. 

[Com Guard Precentor]

I for one cannot be happier that they replaced the dated covers with the new versions featuring the KS redesigned mechs. I wanted to pick up Total Warfare when it had the old artwork, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay money for something that looks like it belongs in 1992.

I am still holding out for the day when TPTB make the decision to update the internal layouts of TW and TO to the more modern designs in the BMM, AS:CE, and latest sourcebooks.

Out with the old, in with the new.

[Church14]

I’ve been happy with the new covers. But they need a high quality, current standards version of that man walking dire wolf.

No substitutes allowed, embrace the wacky on that one.

[Greatclub]

Fasa publishing era the the artists were a bit too b-list. I think the early ROC novels were best. 91-94, before they went CGI. Malicious intent is where it went bad. OG dark age novels were usually too dark and shadowed, appropriately enough.

[Colt Ward]

I for one cannot be happier that they replaced the dated covers with the new versions featuring the KS redesigned mechs. I wanted to pick up Total Warfare when it had the old artwork, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay money for something that looks like it belongs in 1992.

I am still holding out for the day when TPTB make the decision to update the internal layouts of TW and TO to the more modern designs in the BMM, AS:CE, and latest sourcebooks.

Out with the old, in with the new.

Which TW cover?  I absolutely agree about the "retro" covers on the core rulebooks.

[pokefan548]

I like the retro covers, but I'm glad they're just a little event thing and the mercs covers are the new face.

[BATTLEMASTER]

I’ve been happy with the new covers. But they need a high quality, current standards version of that man walking dire wolf.

No substitutes allowed, embrace the wacky on that one.

Someone on the BattleTech Reddit bashed a Dire Wolf mini with legs from a Gargoyle to emulate the cover 

[pokefan548]

Someone on the BattleTech Reddit bashed a Dire Wolf mini with legs from a Gargoyle to emulate the cover 

Thanks, I hate it.

[MarauderD]

Agree on the AS: CE cover.  The Crucis Lancer Thud getting gutted is one of my favorites.  My rules are pretty out of date, but I'm keeping that book because I love the cover.  Same for the BattleMech Manual cover with the Red Hunter Marauder on it.  Not sure if they are both Mazzoni covers, but man, I love em and won't replace them.

[truetanker]

Yeah, not going to complain about artist currently using 3D models if it gets the mechs looking better overall. I'm sure Loveless would have made a better cover for us if someone gave him a Ral Partha mini of the Dire Wolf (I mean, he got the Timber Wolves right)

Firing backwards?, it allows torso twisting, eh...

TT

[SteelRaven]

Firing backwards?, it allows torso twisting, eh...

TT

Ignoring the proportions being wrong that also illustrates Roger Loveless only had one point of reference, the toes and shin guards show the mech is in fact stepping forward. This was someone sending the artist one image of the front of the mech, no other descriptions and the artist assuming it was a hunched over humanoid rather than a bulky bird walker.

If they gave Roger Loveless more time and proper references, we could have had something closer to this;

Not a fan of the colors but look at that detail and the dynamic angel, it's almost if these are two different artist.

[BATTLEMASTER]

Ignoring the proportions being wrong that also illustrates Roger Loveless only had one point of reference, the toes and shin guards show the mech is in fact stepping forward. This was someone sending the artist one image of the front of the mech, no other descriptions and the artist assuming it was a hunched over humanoid rather than a bulky bird walker.

That's a good observation.  In that sense, Roger was entirely correct in his interpretation 

[SteelRaven]

That's a good observation.  In that sense, Roger was entirely correct in his interpretation 

No, he was still wrong but it wasn't entirely his fault. Why I keep mentioning Roc and Fasa should have given him more notes other than what I assumed read "this mech fighting these mechs by this deadline."

Note: I wouldn't hate this being a look of a new mech but it would only make the cover more confusing to new players reading up on Sarna going 'what the hell is that?'

[truetanker]

Or if the weapon was the correct angle for backshots.

As is, it's the wrong arm.

No mech is a true 360*, always a 180* turn one way or the other.

TT

[Com Guard Precentor]

Which TW cover?  I absolutely agree about the "retro" covers on the core rulebooks.

It was the retro cover with the old, wacky-proportioned Atlas