MechWarrior 5: Clans Announced

[Alan Grant]

Has the look and vibe of the Smoke Jaguars surprised anyone else?

I think I was expecting something a bit more gruff. Grittier. A little less polished. A little more like street thug meets professional warrior. A Clan of young Riddicks.

I think the image in my head is purely my own from reading the novels, particularly the one depicting the Northwind Highlanders versus the Jaguar Tau Galaxy on Wayside 5. Gave me a very savage and lethal impression of the Jaguar officers. Much more lethal than the Kit Commander even. Though he comes the closest to matching my mental image.

I'm just wondering if anyone else had a little bit of a "that's not what I thought they'd look like" moment.

Before anyone scrambles to do so. No need to come to the game's defense. Overall, I like what I'm seeing. I appreciate that the Clans are getting a new story depiction in a game, with Clan character, culture, all of it. Not really a complaint as much as sharing an internal feeling of surprise at the disparity between how I thought they'd look, and the game's depiction. With each now clip or featurette I'm getting more excited about the game.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

It's a natural outcome of characters being written as human beings instead of Saturday morning cartoons

And Jaguars have always been written as one note bogeymen even in their own novels

There was similar effect with Scorpions after reading No Dust No Wear AKA the first fiction with them in it, granted they were never villains but like many others they were un-fleshed out

Same situation with Jaguars here, they are humans not robots and this seems to be a story about humans not tropes

I noticed that a lot of fandom just thinks of Clans as bunch of robotic soldiers and that civilians just stand motionlessly in some warehouse until someone needs them

When that view runs into actually written story it creates some mental contradictions

[Crimson Dynamo]

Has the look and vibe of the Smoke Jaguars surprised anyone else?

Not at all! If you consider the novels that featured Jaguar-centric PoVs, you'll note BLP is a pretty common denominator, and the quality of his writing or lack thereof is largely where that image and aura of the brutish thugs or, as Fire Scorpion sums up, the one-note boogeymen come from. The past, oh, 15 or so years have been much kinder in their depictions of the Jaguars, like some of the Upgrade TRO entries, the Era Reports 3052 and 3062, and especially Jaguar's Leap by Reed Bishop have painted a picture far closer to what you see in these trailers: a professional military force populated with actual characters.

What a time to be alive!

[VanVelding]

Has the look and vibe of the Smoke Jaguars surprised anyone else?

I think I was expecting something a bit more gruff. Grittier. A little less polished...

I think you can wrap many trappings of civilization around institutionalized brutality. Well-composed men in nice suits can order, stoke, and allow all manner of [Redacted under Rule 4]. That's always been my impression of the Clans (and the IS, TBH) from the novels.

[Colt Ward]

It's a natural outcome of characters being written as human beings instead of Saturday morning cartoons

Eh, there is a reason I always said Custer was a Jaguar bloodname.

[Crimson Dynamo]

We've just never had the heart to tell you how little sense that makes.

[Colt Ward]

We've just never had the heart to tell you how little sense that makes.

Wolcott, Luthien, Tukayyid . . . sure

[Crimson Dynamo]

Wolcott, Luthien, Tukayyid . . . sure

Maybe Varus, Paullus or Varro, Brudenell, or the names of any of the French leaders at Agincourt should have been Jaguar Bloodnames too, since they all lost big/famous battles too. Pick a name, hope it makes sense.

[Colt Ward]

Not the name but the tactics- mostly rushing in without preparation.  We still get bits about how the Old Jags prized a warriors charging into battle and trying to bull through to victory with ferocity.

[Crimson Dynamo]

We still get bits about how the Old Jags...

Exactly! If you go by the novels alone, the depictions here would come across as jarring and inaccurate. Go by the more recent depictions, like what I assume PGI has done with MW5: Clans, and you get actual characters with capability, motivations, flaws, strengths, and emotions populating a competent military force. I think Alan Grant's surprise at the tonal shift (or evolution) of the faction is certainly warranted. Nobody's saying they're not still quick to action, brutally direct, or wanton in their violence, but that there's far more than just the old 'scream-and-leap' stereotype these days. Cordera Perez's presence guarantees we'll see the darkest side as well.

[Mech_Minis]

It's not even the new books so much as widening the lens to encompass the clan as described in other core source material such as "Invading Clans" and other sourcebook material outside just the novels alone.

And even within the novels that do focus on the Jaguars, there is a sense of camaraderie between warriors of like-minded political leanings. Even in Exodus Road, Trent was a very close friend of Benjamin Howell and would have regular chess matches with him, Paul Moon had several confidants that he trusted in. And warriors who would couple with each other often grew incredibly fond of one another. The conflicts and douchebaggery tended to stem not from every single person being a reprehensible d-bag to everyone else, but that there were multiple ever-shifting power bases within the clan that led to tension and conflict as varying power structures vied for power. And if you found yourself allying with someone else's rival, it tended to put a target on your back.

The thing is, as shown, the characters in MW5: Clans have no stake in those fights yet because of their age/sibko status.  To them, they could care less about intra-clan politics. They care about if they are good enough to make the grade and attain warrior status in the first place. These aren't the "seasoned/jaded warriors" that tend to accompany many Smoke Jag novels, they're teenagers trying to get their foot in the door.

[BATTLEMASTER]

Has the look and vibe of the Smoke Jaguars surprised anyone else?

I think I was expecting something a bit more gruff. Grittier. A little less polished. A little more like street thug meets professional warrior. A Clan of young Riddicks.

I think the image in my head is purely my own from reading the novels, particularly the one depicting the Northwind Highlanders versus the Jaguar Tau Galaxy on Wayside 5. Gave me a very savage and lethal impression of the Jaguar officers. Much more lethal than the Kit Commander even. Though he comes the closest to matching my mental image.

I'm just wondering if anyone else had a little bit of a "that's not what I thought they'd look like" moment.

I was kind of in that boat.  But when I considered that Clan Smoke Jaguar is still part of the SLDF-in-Exile, I think it makes sense.  Each of the Clans may have their own cultures and traditions, but they're still civilizations that possess organized, structured armies.

Unlike the canon we have so far, these featurettes go out to show that these Clan warriors are also human, even behind their customs.  I've heard them referred to as "Space Vikings", but I think they only really look like that in the Clan Council and Grand Council meetings.  I think the guys we've seen so far are the regulars who have boots on the ground, unlike the furry Khans in the meetings with other leaders.

[Colt Ward]

Exactly! If you go by the novels alone, the depictions here would come across as jarring and inaccurate. Go by the more recent depictions, like what I assume PGI has done with MW5: Clans, and you get actual characters with capability, motivations, flaws, strengths, and emotions populating a competent military force. I think Alan Grant's surprise at the tonal shift (or evolution) of the faction is certainly warranted. Nobody's saying they're not still quick to action, brutally direct, or wanton in their violence, but that there's far more than just the old 'scream-and-leap' stereotype these days. Cordera Perez's presence guarantees we'll see the darkest side as well.

I am encompassing the latest materials.  And I used "Old" to refer to the death of the Clan in the Invasion, not Alaric's reborn or Neo Jags.

Read the pilot cards from CI and I think there are a few in Mercs.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's not even the new books so much as widening the lens to encompass the clan as described in other core source material such as "Invading Clans" and other sourcebook material outside just the novels alone.

I dunno, I've always felt Invading Clans kept the novels flavor of the Jags pretty well. Though there was that bit about the Nova Cats copying Jaguar tactics against the DCMS, which to me always dispelled the idea they were tactically inept, at least.

The thing is, as shown, the characters in MW5: Clans have no stake in those fights yet because of their age/sibko status.  To them, they could care less about intra-clan politics. They care about if they are good enough to make the grade and attain warrior status in the first place. These aren't the "seasoned/jaded warriors" that tend to accompany many Smoke Jag novels, they're teenagers trying to get their foot in the door.

Good point. I'm expecting the PC and his Star will become more jaded by the end of the game, or at least be a microcosm of the greater Clan. The recent character spotlight, Liam, shows what could well be the more liberal, contracture-using end of the spectrum, I expect we'll see the opposite end soon with some hardcore fanatic Starmate.

I am encompassing the latest materials.  And I used "Old" to refer to the death of the Clan in the Invasion, not Alaric's reborn or Neo Jags.

Read the pilot cards from CI and I think there are a few in Mercs.

Which latest materials? The little one-paragraph flavor pieces describing individuals on the pilot cards? Other than Clodovea, Logan Moon, and something about one of the Piranha notables being "short-tempered, paranoid, and vengeful even by Smoke Jaguar standards" what are you looking at?

And I've never even mentioned the nuJags, considering they haven't done anything yet.

[Sapphirus]

a new trailer from Gamescom:
https://youtu.be/I3_F-gsn3zI

[MarauderD]

a new trailer from Gamescom:
https://youtu.be/I3_F-gsn3zI

Looks good.  I'm trying my best not to play video games anymore, but this looks like a good immersive Clan adventure to me.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm feeling hyped in spite of myself.

[Crimson Dynamo]

According to one of the captioned lines from a briefing in that vid, the PC and your unit seem to belong to the 362nd Assault Cluster of Beta Galaxy, a unit that was said to be the backbone of that Galaxy. Notably, they were at Santander's World which I think we've seen in gameplay, and were the unit that took Turtle Bay, making me wonder if Hohiro Kurita will appear. The 362nd were also at Luthien and Tukayyid, which makes me hopeful at least one of these campaigns is in the game.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm really wondering how mech assignment is going to work in this game, given how the Clans operate.

[Colt Ward]

I'm really wondering how mech assignment is going to work in this game, given how the Clans operate.

Be a Star Commander and you are assigning the mechs and configurations.  I am more curious about how they will implement Omnis.

[MarauderD]

Be a Star Commander and you are assigning the mechs and configurations.  I am more curious about how they will implement Omnis.

From what we know about Clans (CW and CJF phone books, Thurston and Stackpole novels) it seems like most warriors get an Omni they pilot for most of their career.  I always inferred that they changed configs, but it isn't necessarily true.  We know Ulrik wanted CW Alpha Galaxy to reconfigure to all energy weapons for Tukayyid, and that Radick had Beta Galaxy using up expendables faster than desired. 

While it is probably necessary for a video game, it would be weird to me if you could change your mech willy-milly whenever you wanted.  Hard to mesh that reality with a game though, where most of the time you start in a light/medium and work your way up to an assault.  It would be cool if they found a different 'power curve' than that for Clans.  We'll see.

[Colt Ward]

Two things-

Vlad used a Timber Wolf for the Periphery scout mission, going back to his original mech when it was over.

The Clans also face turnover with mechs.  Look at some of the reported losses in the Refusal War and you can end up where a MechWarrior survives his machine being wrecked and gets a new one assigned.  Also, if a warrior changes stars let alone clusters it does not mean they take them.

Heck, when a warrior gains ristar status in the Wolves they will be assigned a Orion IIc as a compliment.

[ColBosch]

Every game deviates from canon in some ways, so I wouldn't be surprised if it does the usual light to assault progression even if it's not really how the Clans operate.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Mechwarrior 2 did that, IIRC.

What I'm really curious about is how Hero Mechs are going to be implemented. Because it would feel rather weird if it weren't possible to get Hero Mechs in the game given how much of a thing they were in Mercs.

[Wrangler]

From what we know about Clans (CW and CJF phone books, Thurston and Stackpole novels) it seems like most warriors get an Omni they pilot for most of their career.  I always inferred that they changed configs, but it isn't necessarily true.  We know Ulrik wanted CW Alpha Galaxy to reconfigure to all energy weapons for Tukayyid, and that Radick had Beta Galaxy using up expendables faster than desired. 

While it is probably necessary for a video game, it would be weird to me if you could change your mech willy-milly whenever you wanted.  Hard to mesh that reality with a game though, where most of the time you start in a light/medium and work your way up to an assault.  It would be cool if they found a different 'power curve' than that for Clans.  We'll see.

Yeah, problem of Pandora's Box being opened is the problem.  Too many players whom don't follow old lore of Battletech and just play the games, I would imagine won't handle well if you can change out weapons/pod equipment as they saw fit. Nevermind not being able to do it with any mech.

However, I did think MW5 Mercs handled it bit better, making it so you had wait for the standard mechs be rebuilt for the new arrangement with weapons and repairs.   I'm not so sure we'll see it MW5 Clans.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm pretty sure that the last trailer showed that you can swiftly configure your mech with per-selected omni-pod loadouts.

[BATTLEMASTER]

CSJ Sabre Cat inbound!

[Cyc]

Very interesting - if you slow down the Gamescon trailer at 1:36 you can see some interesting items - full ton and half ton Ferro-Fibrous Pods. PGI dev Tiyos let slip that while an OmniMech's armor coverage in MW5:Clans cannot be truly modified like in MWO, you can sacrifice some of both your pod and crit space to at least boost it.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Also in the latest trailer, I saw a different paint scheme, other than the standard CSJ. I imagine in "instant action" you can change your colours (and Clan icon ?)

As in regards to mechs 3050-3052 ?

[Wrangler]

CSJ Sabre Cat inbound!

The Saber Cat is Essex Class Destroyer,  I guess PGI taking it's own liberties with the designs.  I have NO IDEA what the ship behind it is.   Not anything seen in BattleTech before.

Though it's cool, but wow it be wild if they allow people use aerospace anything in the game.