Is there such a thing as too much transport?

[Weirdo]

So the bulk of infantry transports out there carry one or two infantry units in their bays, but we do have some(Notably the Maxim (I) and Maxim II) that can carry entire companies of conventional troops or a full platoon of battle armor. These mega-haulers are still limited to offloading a single infantry unit per turn though due to stacking limitations, at least until you start working with large support vehicles. So I ask those who have actually used these high-capacity APCs, had this proved to be a problem? Do you find that sitting still long enough to get everyone out the door or staying on the move by spreading out your troops prove to be a liability, or are you able to compensate somehow?

[Sartris]

My main use for the mega clown car maxim is to drop squads at multiple spots a decent distance apart. The stacking limits nuke their ability to take advantage of their main tactical asset.

[AlphaMirage]

I've never used them, to much risk of losing the large infantry unit if the vehicle gets KO'ed or mobility killed. I'd also rather have options to take multiple objectives at once rather than in sequence.

That said I could see them being used if you have limits on units (like dropship slots) and want to bring a more combat focused mix of vehicles rather than a bunch of hover IFVs capable of dropping off squads. They do adequately well for that but I'd much rather it be crunchier Battle Armored Troops inside rather than a company of PBIs. The PBIs can come in the second wave on trucks. They don't need a bespoke Maxim like the Chad 'Mobile Infantry.'

[Scotty]

Many BattleTech games, regardless of size, ultimately come down to one side's ability to create a major mismatch in capability and exploit it.  This typically happens on a single or small handful of decisive turns, after which the side that won the decisive turns have a significant advantage.  Setting up this decisive stroke can take a handful of turns, but the difficulty in greatly increased the more turns it takes to set up that stroke.  Applying maximum offense to the critical point is key, and getting all your battle armor on the field at the same time makes that easier.

That is to say, concentrated transport is more difficult to coordinate than smaller individual transports for what would happen in a typical game.

Big transports with extended compartments and the ability to deploy infantry across a front is going to be much more useful in a game where the objective is not necessarily "kill your opponent".  Locating a hidden objective in urban terrain, taking and holding key points, or making some maneuvers more dangerous for your opponent for objective reasons are all excellent opportunities for a capacious transport to show its use.

[Charistoph]

There is a similar capacity that isn't just as easily found.  OmniVehicles with Infantry Transport Bays.

Last Friday I used 2 Inner Sphere Bandits to deliver 4 Squads of ISS Battle Armor on the field.  I had one going on the right flank, and the other on the left side.

Right Flank dropped off its Mechanized Squad when a Fire Moth carrying Elementals came screaming by.  They actually managed to get some shots in on them while they focused on a Crusader's Rear.  Right Bandit then kept going down the field and dropped its Transported Squad behind a mesa to get a Timber Wolf to come out and play.  They didn't do much else after that.  The Bandit went off to try and flank/backstab another Adder (it was 2v2, and they both pulled their units from the Clan Invasion box set), but its Movement was Heavily Damaged by then.  It then backed up as the Adder ran by its rear and popped its SRMs in to its backside anyway.

Left Flank had a more interesting story.  Dropped off its Mechanized Squad next to a more central mesa.  It was Immobilized by fire from flanking mechs that turn.  The Squad managed to get in to the hex of a Nova in one turn, and an Executioner in the next.  No Swarming happened .  The Transport Squad got out the next turn and later Jumped to a point to try and harass someone when an Adder backed up adjacent to them.  Surprisingly, that Bandit survived the rest of the game, even managed to pop off its remaining SRM rack at the Adder before end game.

They might have survived longer if I had Skirmishers going up with them, but my list wasn't designed with that in mind.  2 TAG J Edgars, a Crusader, a Trebuchet, and an interesting Victor with Gauss Rifle and Large Pulse Lasers (Kataga), which ended up ripping hard in to that Timber Wolf last turn.

[Natasha Kerensky]

A lot comes down to the size of the game.  In a multi-weekend, battalion-on-battalion engagement, a few of these company-sized APCs make more sense.  But in a typical lance pickup game or single weekend, company-sized engagement, you’re more likely to be putting too many eggs in one basket.

BV may also be a consideration.  For example, a Maxim II at 476BV2 can deliver the same amount of infantry as several or a handful of Hover APCs at 188BV2 each.

[RifleMech]

Depending on the game I may only use half filled transports. The rest of the space is used for supplies, loot, rescued people, and space additional infantry incase other APCs get knocked out.

[idea weenie]

If the troops make echo jokes, that is too much room.  At least if the troops try to do yodeling exercises, they will form an orderly orderly orderly queue.

[Sir Chaos]

As the person who designed a Behemoth Tank variant carrying an entire battalion of jump infantry, I think that, no, there is no such thing as "too much transport".

[Hellraiser]

So, the Maxim-i & Maxim-II/III are all fine IMHO.

I wouldn't go bigger than that mind you, but moving a full Platoon of FC BA or a Jump Infantry Company at 16 Tons is fine.
Game mechanics wise its a bit of a pain that you can't drop off more than 1 unit at a time I will say, but, logistically, I'm fine with the #s above.

I wouldn't bother with a "Battalion Mover" unless it was strictly rear area like using a BFFL to move from 1 base to another outside of wartime.

Where I think there is NOT ENOUGH transport for infantry is at the Dropship level.
The fact that the Condor, Excalibur, Hercules, & Colossus (maybe more) ONLY manage to move a single battalion of infantry & not a full regiment is criminal to me.
The Condor concept of an Infantry Battalion w/ APC/Recon company absolutely needs to be scaled up to a transport that moves a full Regiment w/ a Light Vee Battalion.
IE.  Basically a Seeker w/ way more infantry.

Not that I want to see that concept taken to the extreme either, a Regiment is a good #, no need to make a "Division" mover dropship really.
But something that can move a Regiment & is designed for COMBAT is needed IMO.

Brigade mover is debatable I suppose.

[AlphaMirage]

I mean the Czar does exist, but Infantry drains a lot of life support on a dropship. I've run the numbers and people quartered in bays get expensive in mass and money quickly to sustain in addition to payroll and all that. On Warships that's fine you can put 800 quarters on a Warship (Regimental-ish size). For Dropships that's basically the upper deck of a Mule. Which is how I expect Regiments of Infantry are transported across space into a battlezone since you can put their vehicles, ammo, and other logistics/support equipment (Hospital, Communications, etc...) down there.

Condors and similar Aerodyne Transports (Leopard, Fury, Gazelle, and even the Triumph) are IMO for planetary ready forces (Noble Troops or Planetary Militia) to handle 'local' problems on their world rather than for invading other ones. Maybe you use them in conjunction with a spheroid to raid your neighbors but most are to small for sustained ops and require runways in a hostile land.

[Sir Chaos]

I wouldn't bother with a "Battalion Mover" unless it was strictly rear area like using a BFFL to move from 1 base to another outside of wartime.

Well, to be fair, that one was more of an exercise in deliberate insanity (I blame Covid quarantine induced loopiness) than attempt to build a viable combat vehicle. I mean, it moved at a speed of 2/3.

If I really wanted to put an entire battalion´s worth of eggs into one basket, that basket would be a Planetlifter.

[Scotty]

I appreciate the ambition apparent but I'm like 99% sure Weirdo is asking in the Ground Combat board because the context of the question is a game of BattleTech and not a campaign.

[Weirdo]

I appreciate the ambition apparent but I'm like 99% sure Weirdo is asking in the Ground Combat board because the context of the question is a game of BattleTech and not a campaign.

Correct, thank you.

[Sir Chaos]

Well then... if you´re going to be unloading under fire, I think one unit (infantry platoon or BA squad) per vehicle is plenty.

Carrying more than one unit is mostly good for getting someplace before the enemy does, and unloading there so that the infantry is in position by the time the enemy arrives.

[Charistoph]

A lot depends on how many units of Infantry you're planning on deploying and how much you need them down range, balanced against how much muscle you plan on deploying elswhere in the match.

Being able to deploy multiple Squads/Platoons down range, or quickly redeploy in the back range, reduces the number of hulls and BV you're dedicating to that ability.  Of course, the downside is that puts 2 or more eggs in one basket if it takes the wrong type of fire.

[Starfury]

One until deployment per APC/IFV was never a real issue for me, as I would make sure to cover my infantry transports with escorts that could cover for them. Most larger transports have a nice secondary effect as units that can fight once their infantry is dropped off, amd the recent uptick in effective battlefield combined arms units makes them even more effective. 

[Weirdo]

I suppose if you have two or more big transports, you could run them in a big weave or circle, with each one dropping troops in a hex that its buddy just dropped in the turn before. Would only take a few turns to set up several widely spaced locations with a solid infantry presence.

[Wolf72]

somewhere I thought you could dismount one infantry unit per facing per door, so a super heavy hover craft @100t with 1 door ea to the right, left, and aft could dismount 3 units at a time, one at each of those facings.

working off of faulty memory though, I easily could have read that idea/HR in the forums also.

[Dapper Apples]

I've used the unarmed Pegasus variant in the past, it has a 12 ton cargo bay.  One game had objectives scattered about the map, that could be carried away by mechs to the board edge or secured by any unit at the end of the game.  I had the pegasus drop off jump infantry (srm) on the closest objectives to me to hold them while the mechs contested the middle ones.  Another game had a Pegasus drop two fenrir BA at the mouth of a valley the enemy was going thru to meet the rest of my force.

With a singular transport, it means deploying more safely behind so the transport doesn't risk taking fire and sacrificing any units still in the hold.  It also probably means all the contained troops will likely end up in the same relative location, as the transport won't easily/quickly cross the map to say drop troops on opposite flanks.  Deploying the transport on a flank will likely commit the whole hold to that flank.

From a meta (outside the game) standpoint, the benefit is running less APCs to take turns/initiative with, esp. unarmed ones that just shuttle troops.

There's also some Omni vehicles that have an infantry bay plus the battle armor on the outside.  Normal transports can "double up" too if the BA have mag clamps.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Using the variant rules for battle armor capacity definitely requires bigger transports if you want to lug heavy or assault suits around the field.

[Iceweb]

In an ATB game with megamek I've captured and then otherwise acquired some more maxims to move battle armor around.  And using the 12 ton bay to move two squads of BA on one unit had some advantages but really very few of those advantages translated to the ground combat part of the game.  If memory serves correct I had some heavy or assault suits with 6 men in them, and optional rules for variable BA weights were used.  I think I had BA squads that took up 9 tons of bay space to load.  And for tactical reasons I didn't want them unsupported when dropped off.  So a second squad of light infantry or BA was also put in the maxim to act as support. 

For the game the advantages were the maxim being able to take some glancing lucky fire without going right up in flames like an APC but it wasn't going to be taking any dedicated fire without a kill, mobility or otherwise.  Two hover APCs would likely have been better if they would have fit the larger BA squad.  A separate APC for all my BAs would have been more expedient on the TW level board.  They do get unwieldy as opposed to doubling up the BA, but they give you more flexibility and you can dismount all at once. 

You are going to need some external house or scenario rules, from your standard put your units down and kill them all game of BattleTech to make more of a reason to use the larger transport bays and put more units in your transports than 1 to 1. 

On the ATB side the larger bay for fewer transport had a lot of benefits, such as needing less crew and techs, and them being more likely to be recovered in a condition that they could be repaired for the next battle in the campaign.   But again all the big bay benefits come out at a higher level than TW.

[Martius]

I prefer smaller transports to a big one- if I can get away with it- too big the danger to lose everything in one hit. Also the unloading of several squads takes time where you have barely a movement mod or you have to do some circle rshing, with makes you predictable. Of course the BV system punishes bringing too many units (Initiative sinks can be annoying for some) so I tend to adapt there.

A century of troops split into 10 APCs (the old 1t capacity APCs getting some love here- perfect for a 10 trooper contubernium) can be very intersting to play.

[Paul]

So I ask those who have actually used these high-capacity APCs, had this proved to be a problem? Do you find that sitting still long enough to get everyone out the door or staying on the move by spreading out your troops prove to be a liability, or are you able to compensate somehow?

Generally, it proves superior to have a number of transports equal to the number of units you're deploying. Greater flexibility in location of deployment, more redundancy in case some get disabled or destroyed, and deploying them all at once is generally an advantage.
A side advantage is that if your enemy knows that they're only carrying a single infantry unit, they are less likely to assign significant firepower; the benefit is reduced if you do hit, and they're about to become less important after they drop infantry in many cases; leapfrogging infantry positions can sometimes be useful, but often isn't practical even if you pull it off. So the survival rate of the carriers go up, especially if their firepower isn't significant.

But it does tie up a large number of units, so in games where you can only deploy a fixed amount, being able to task just 1 or two total vehicles to infantry deployment can be a big benefit. It does reduce your options somewhat in deployment; either you spread the troops widely (often not great) or you're sacrificing speed and tactical options to find a deployment zone with sufficient cover for your multi-turn operation.
I tend to prefer that latter option: find one safe spot (LOS blocked by terrain, no enemies able to close in time) and just invest the turns in deploying. If you're able to use Smoke to provide cover, you usually can still get the infantry in to the spot you wanted them to go. As with most things infantry, an urban setting also reduces the problems with this approach.

[Hellraiser]

Using the variant rules for battle armor capacity definitely requires bigger transports if you want to lug heavy or assault suits around the field.

Heavy does all right thanks to the Karnov, Blizzard?, & Heavy APC line.
But assault?  yeah, agreed, things start to get real slim pickins when looking for an 8-ton mover available before the Civil war.
Eventually you do get the Maxim-I and the Karnov-BA but there isn't an abundance of choices.

[Daryk]

I think that reflects the lack of abundance of assault armor generally, really...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Pre-Civil War, the Fenrir and Kanazuchi were the only assault suits in existence. And they both had pretty limited deployment.

[paladin2019]

somewhere I thought you could dismount one infantry unit per facing per door, so a super heavy hover craft @100t with 1 door ea to the right, left, and aft could dismount 3 units at a time, one at each of those facings.

working off of faulty memory though, I easily could have read that idea/HR in the forums also.

Support vehicles can do this but not combat vehicles. Stacking limits still apply, however.

[Wolf72]

Support vehicles can do this but not combat vehicles. Stacking limits still apply, however.

aha! thanks.

[House Davie Merc]

Thanks for bringing these up. I didn't know about them.

On a similar note-the "Unarmed Pegasus" variant has 12 tons of cargo and a single
cargo door.
It moves at 8/12, has a BV of 317, and is available in the Succession Wars Era.

I'm considering using a few for some tabletop games but no matter what I do
in MegaMek I can't get infantry on board.
The get on and off everything else just fine.

Am I missing some reason why I can't get them on?  Thanks.