Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Deimos  (Read 5203 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Mech of the Week: Deimos
« on: 04 May 2024, 13:31:32 »


Deimos was the Greek god of fear who accompanied his father Ares into battle and created disorder among armies.  In 1877, when astronamers discovered the two moons of Mars, it was the name used for the smaller one.  And in the 3060s when Clan Snow Raven decided to build themselves an assault omnimech for their ground forces, it was the name chosen.  The Inner Sphere stopped hearing about this mech during the chaos of the Jihad (and Wars of Reaving), but in the 3080s it was once again revealed as the Ravens settled into the Outworlds Alliance.

Weighing in at 85 tons, the Deimos omnimech uses a 255XL engine to give itself a 3/5 movement, with occasional bursts of speed up to 64 kph thanks to the use of MASC.  An endo-steel chassis saves weight while 14.5 tons of standard armor plating give it about 88% of its maximum protection, arranged fairly sensibly across the mech without leaving any locations excessively thin.  The mech made its official Battletech debut (see below) in the PDF exclusive TRO: 3085 Supplemental before being reprinted in TRO: Jihad.

This left the mech with a considerable amount of tonnage to devote to its offensive capability.  On top of its 43 tons of pod space, it carries four external double heatsinks: two in the Left Torso and one in each leg.  It also makes the unusual decision to hard-mount several weapons, specifically an ER Medium Laser in each side torso and an anti-missile system in the head with one ton of ammo stored stupidly in the center torso.  Seriously, I do not understand the obsession of CT ammo bins in TRO 3085.

Showing the Snow Raven bias for air combat, the Deimos possesses the Anti-Aircraft Targeting quirk if quirks are in play, and the Prime features a weapon load that plays to that.  Six Ultra 2 ACs are equipped, three per arm, while a pair of LRM 15s are nestled in the side torsos.  Three tons of ammo are devoted to the autocannons (one in each arm and one in the right torso) and another three tons are split between the missile pods (two in the left torso and one in the right).  The heat sinks aren't quite enough to handle a full alpha strike, leaving you at a net 4+movement+plus possibly the AMS, but that can easily be managed by deciding whether or not to double tap with the autocannons in the same turn you use the lasers.

The A is built for closer-range engagements with better anti-mech capabilities, now possessing paired ER PPCs and Medium Pulse Lasers mounted one in each torso as well as a pair of LB 10-X autocannons located in the arms.  An ECM sits in the center torso, good for jamming enemy missiles or C3 networks.  Each autocannon carries the standard two tons for an LB 10-X, allowing the use of both solid and cluster munitions, but the addition of only two extra heatsinks leaves the mech barely able to handled the heat from the ER PPCs while running, to say nothing for the rest of the weapons.  Alpha striking in this machine is dangerous, it shoots you straight to 20 heat just from weapon fire alone, 23 if you ran and the AMS activated.  That's shutdown and ammo explosion roll territory.

The B is built to fight at closer range than the Prime but longer range than the A.  It keeps the ECM from the A in the center torso, while mounting a pair of ER PPC and Large Pulse Lasers, one in each arm, along side four LRM 10 pods, two per side torso.  Six tons of ammo for the missile pods are split between each arm, which gives plenty of flexibility for using any alternate munitions that might be available to you.  But like the A, it only has 32 heat dissipation but the heat is even worse!  A running alpha strike with the AMS active will shoot you straight to 47 on the heat scale!  That's literally off the chart (and an automatic shutdown) unless you're using the optional expanded heat scale rules from TacOps.  Very few mechs can overheat themselves that badly in one round of fire.  Bracket fire or die in this mech.

The C variant returns to more close-range focus and also grants an impressive mobility boost.  The ECM suite is still parked in the center torso, while the arms are each equipped with one ER large laser, one Ultra 10 AC (fed by a total of four tons of ammo, one in each arm and one in each side torso), and one Small Pulse Laser.  The heat sinks are back down to the 14 hard-mounted ones, and the remaining tonnage is devoted to 4 Improved Jump Jets.  Was it really worth paying five tons for that extra one jump movement over using standard jump jets?  I'll let you decide.  Again, this mech runs hot but at least this time it's got easy bracket firing: you use the ER larges or you use everything else.  If you do feel the urge to alpha strike, you're looking at 22 plus movement and AMS.  So try not to do that unless you really need to.

The S variant this time designates a mech designed for space rather than for city combat, as the only difference between it and the C is that it drops the ECM for one ton of liquid storage to provide reaction mass for the IJJs in a vacuum.  Definitely a specialist machine, there's no point in using it if you're not fighting in space.  Not really surprising to see, given who builds the mech.

Two more configurations for the omnimech showed up in TRO 3145.  The D is a variation on the Prime, swapping out the six Ultra 2s for a pair of Clan RAC 2s.  The tonnage this saved allowed the torso LRM pods to be upgraded to a pair of Streak LRM 20s.  Three tons of ammo still support the ACs, with one in each arm and the third joining the AMS ammo in the Center Torso because the Deimos wasn't apparently explody enough already.  Four tons of ammo feed the Steak pods, two in each arm.  This mech is relatively mild as far as heat goes, only going up to 6 plus movement and AMS on an alpha strike, and its heat can easily be controlled via being selective with the firing rate on the RACs.

The final omni configuration is the E, this time built for heavy close-range engagement.  An ER PPC sits in the Right Arm, while an ER Large Laser and two Large Pulse Lasers sit in the left.  These, along with the hard-mounted ER Medium Lasers, all tie into a targeting computer in the right arm for additional accuracy, while four Streak SRM 4 pods allow for serious crit-seeking.  A single ton of ammo in the left torso feeds the Streak launchers.  Ground mobility is boosted in the form of a Supercharger in the Center Torso, and the mech's 32 heat dissipation is boosted by the addition of a Radical Heat Sink System in the Right Torso.  Probably taken as salvage from fighting the Davions.  Even with the extra heat dissipation from the RHSS, the mech can't handle the heat from its weapon fire- a running alpha strike will see you at 23 or 24 depending on the AMS.  Once more, bracket firing is the order of the day.

Now, we've covered all the omnimech's configurations, but there's still one last variant to deal with because the Ravens built a second-line version of this mech, apparently as a test-bed for some advanced tech.

The Deimos 2 differs from the omni by using Ferro-Fibrous armor and only mounting the stock 10 double heatsinks.  These changes improved its armor protection to near maximum, with most non-head locations now only two points below max.  The weapon loadout is based on the prime, with six Ultra 2 ACs, two LRM 15s, and two ER Medium lasers the same.  However, it mounts a then-experimental laser AMS in the head instead of the standard AMS, which means that this is the only Deimos to not have ammo in the center torso.  One ton of ammo for the LRMs and one ton for the autocannons sits in each side torso.  This mech doesn't have the endurance of the original.  It still has MASC in the right torso, but the engine has been buffed to a 340 XL, giving it a movement of 4/6(8) now.  Heat's still there, but if you can control it with the Prime you can control it here.

Out of universe, the Deimos is a mech with a complicated history.  It first showed up as a fan design in Mektek before making its way to the Sim Pods, then eventually was canonized in TRO: 3085 Supplemental as I mentioned earlier.

Fighting with a Deimos is typically best done at a distance.  You're not very mobile and while you can take some hits you're not that well protected for a mech your size.  Plus, the heat issues I've been banging on throughout this article are worse up close.  Fighting against a Deimos?  Well, screw with its heat.  Cherry tap it with small missile clusters just to annoy it by forcing the AMS to kick in for a single LRM 5 or SRM 2, and give it a nice warm plasma bath to make the mech's overheating tendency even worse.  And since everything but the 2 has an ammo bomb in the Center Torso, try to exploit that as much as possible- any crit there has a 1 in 12 (or 1 in 11 on the prime or 1 in 6 on the D!) of an ammo explosion that will almost certainly remove the mech from the map.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2024, 15:11:02 »
I'd like to know the story about how this 'mech got canonized.  I don't believe any other unit from a third party source has ever been canonized.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #2 on: 04 May 2024, 15:37:50 »
The Iron Cheetah is the closest thing to that that I'm aware of.  I'm pretty sure it had to do with this mech's getting included in Mechwarrior 4/the Sim Pods.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #3 on: 04 May 2024, 16:55:18 »
The Iron Cheetah is the closest thing to that that I'm aware of.  I'm pretty sure it had to do with this mech's getting included in Mechwarrior 4/the Sim Pods.

I didn't think the Iron Cheetah counted because it originated in Mechforce, which was actually canon official.  Mektek's work was never canon at any time, nor was it an official expansion.  I don't know what their involvement was with the sim pods, however.

Edited for Canon vs official.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2024, 16:58:55 by BATTLEMASTER »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #4 on: 04 May 2024, 18:18:51 »
Beats me.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #5 on: 04 May 2024, 20:31:04 »
Thanks for taking the request!  (I should also note that Sarna shows there being a H model as well, apparently from TRO: Jihad.  I don't have it so I can't check.)

Ah, the Deimos.  What an odd beast.  Lots of tons, not a lot of crits.  Weird fixed gear.  Slightly younger than the Scylla, which is weird if you know your Greek mythology.  What?   :tongue:    The fixed AMS and extra DHS suggests strongly to me that the test pilot and/or head scientist behind the design had a phobia of infernos.  I almost wonder if it was designed by Outworlders, who were new to clantech and omnis.  That might explain some of the weirder design choices.  Or maybe the Ravens just haven't designed a new mech since the Stormcrow and assign dumb, lazy scientists to the mech programs while the smart ones design important things, like WarShips, Aerospace fighters, battle armor, and WarShips. 

Thoughts on individual configs:
Prime: It's interesting.  Not to say *good*, mind you.  More autocannons than the average Davion company (no mean feat!).  Kerensky help JHB if he ever has to drive one, though.  I put the over/under on jammed UACs at 4.  Seems like LBX2s would've made more sense, especially for a mech with AAA targeting, but there's not actually room in the arms for 3 LBX2s.  Remember what I said about crits?  On the plus side, the more ACs jam, the less you need to worry about heat! (Then again, the more jams they have to fix, the more your techs will hate you; swings and roundabouts, I guess.)  Also, this is one of the few AC2 mechs I've ever seen that might run out of ammo before it runs out of armor; you can theoretically drain the bins in just over 11 turns, if nothing jams, which, lol.  Good luck.  It's weird that this config's "hole punchers" are its shortest-ranged weapons.  BV of 2188, which is near that of a Loki II Prime or Summoner F.  I think I'd prefer the Loki II, but I also don't play on the tabletop much, someone more experienced at that should probably weigh in.

A: Devastator, eat your heart out.  Really good design, at least by Deimos standards.  Probably my favorite.  Just don't use all the guns at once.    BV of 2785, near that of a Jupiter, Blood Kite, or War Crow B.

B: Someone welded a Mandrill to an Ebon Jaguar B?  I mean, the ERPPC/LPL combo is a classic, just look at the Warhawk C.  Then count its heat sinks.  23.  tHe Deimos B has 16.  Yeah.  Good luck!  Your LRMs are your close-in sandblast guns, I guess?  Again, that feels backwards.  Overall?  Usable, but finicky.  BV of 2965, just below that of the Shrike.

C: Was the designer a Coyote Abtakha? (If he was a scientist, purge him just to be safe.)  Because this thing reminds me of the Canis.  You could also compare it, if perhaps not favorably, to the Kingfisher D.  Thankfully, it can actually use all of its lasers, unlike the Canis.    And, as a bonus, you have SPLs!  Clan mechwarriors tell me they're highly effective at getting solahma infantry moving when they need extra motivation.  BV of 2737, identical to the Mad Cat Prime.

D: Like the Prime, but better.  Please use the CT ammo first.  BV 2682, same as a Mad Cat D.

E: is for Eclectic, apparently.  It certainly isn't for ATMs.  Streak ammo seems a touch low, but at least you know it'll all hit.  Let's see, fixed MASC, Supercharger, RHSS, boy are your techs going to love how many systems on this design are increasingly likely to fail with over-use!  You blow your supercharger, start generating more heat, which means you need to use your RHSS more, and soon enough a tech brains you with a wrench. Accidentally, of course.  He slipped in the leaking coolant, officer, honest.  BV 3620(!), just higher than the Dire Wolf C.  Yikes.

S: It's a Space C.  BV 264, around that of the Nova Prime.  That seems wrong to me, but again, I'm mostly here to read fiction, which is why I request articles instead of trying to write them.

2: Less ammo, bad.  Laser AMS, good.  More armor, good. Faster, good.  Fewer heat sinks, bad.  No reconfiguring to other loadouts, bad.  Look, if I'm an Outworlder or second-liner I'm happy to have it, probably.  If I'm a trueborn frontliner, I'm probably pissed.  That's the biggest thing separating it from the Prime, honestly.  BV of 2394, in the neighborhood of a Berserker-C3 or Sun Cobra 2.

In sum, the Deimos is...conceptually flawed.  Reminds me of the Avatar, with those fixed lasers.  Maybe that was an OOC plus, to differentiate it from the Savage Coyote, another 85 ton 3/5 clan omni?  I don't know.  Some of the configs are pretty good.  None of them are great.  The chassis still has potential.  I do wish they'd put that AMS ammo somewhere else, and not added so blasted many fixed heat sinks outside the engine.  Also, you notice how none of them carries a gun bigger than a UAC10?  That crit layout really hurts.  You *could* fit a gauss in the arms, but would have to split any AC20 or HAG bigger than a 20.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2024, 21:24:12 by Arkansas Warrior »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #6 on: 04 May 2024, 21:04:58 »
The mech was designed in-universe before the Snow Ravens migrated to the Inner Sphere, so definitely not built by someone from the OA.

One thing that's honestly rather weird is the name.  Given Clan naming conventions, I'm surprised that "Deimos" hadn't already been used by some sort of Clan vehicle.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #7 on: 04 May 2024, 22:10:50 »
One thing that's honestly rather weird is the name.  Given Clan naming conventions, I'm surprised that "Deimos" hadn't already been used by some sort of Clan vehicle.

Maybe that's because the Clans generally don't fear vehicles?   :laugh:

I was comparing the Deimos to the Savage Coyote as well:

- The Deimos has effectively 46.5 tons of pod space compared to the Savage Coyote's 45 tons (that includes the fixed ER medium lasers and AMS)
- The Deimos is a little faster than the Savage Coyote since it equips MASC
- The Savage Coyote isn't as crit-packed as the Deimos
- The Deimos has fixed ammo in the CT, so it's an ever-present ammo bomb
- If quirks are in play, the Deimos' AA targeting quirk is definitely better than the Savage Coyote's "Oversized" quirk
- The Savage Coyote has a tiny bit more armor than the Deimos

And in my opinion, the Savage Coyote has better canon configurations than the Deimos.

However, according to the MUL, only Clan Wolf and Clan Hell's Horses may have the Savage Coyote in the Inner Sphere, though it's my opinion that other Homeworld escapees, like Clan Goliath Scorpion, may have them too.  I don't think anyone's building Savage Coyotes outside of the Homeworlds.  The Raven Alliance, the Rasalhague Dominion, and Clan Sea Fox all have access to the Deimos and the 'mechs are being built in the Inner Sphere.

Overall I think the Savage Coyote is the better 3/5 85-ton Clan omnimech.  I don't think MASC on a 3/5 'mech is a very useful application of the technology - at 85 tons the Deimos could use the three tons for three jump jets instead, which offer more maneuverability, and 3D maneuverability at that, than another ground hex, especially in a brawl.  The Savage Coyote has more internal space to play with so some big guns can be mounted without splitting crits, like the HAG/40 or LBX-AC/20.  Sure, the "Oversized" quirk sucks but I think what the 'mech brings to the table more than makes up for it.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #8 on: 04 May 2024, 22:30:18 »
It should be noted that if the Foxes have access to it, then everyone has access to it…for the right price.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #9 on: 05 May 2024, 00:06:54 »
I'd like to know the story about how this 'mech got canonized.  I don't believe any other unit from a third party source has ever been canonized.

That depends on how you see Battletechnolgy, because many of those units are in BT now.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #10 on: 05 May 2024, 00:59:08 »
Worth mentioning, the D benefits from Streak on the LRMs helping with the heat curve.  With 14 doubles you have 10 from the ER MLs, another 10 for the RACs on optimal ROF, 2 from movement, possibly one from AMS to put you at 23 before the LRMs.  One LRM locks and you're at +0-1, if both lock you're at +6-7 but you've also done at least 40 damage to your target.  If your hit numbers are 7+, you're 50-50 to gain any heat at all.  Worse numbers and you're less likely to have any heat issues at all.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #11 on: 05 May 2024, 01:14:43 »
Not counting designs that use massed one-shot weapons like rocket launchers, is there anything that comes close to the alpha strike overheat level of the B?  Off the top of my head, the worst I can think of is the Kodiak, which hits 30 on an alpha if both streak pods connect.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #12 on: 05 May 2024, 05:48:26 »
It should be noted that if the Foxes have access to it, then everyone has access to it…for the right price.

That's true!   The Deimos is like a cheaper, slightly faster Dire Wolf alternative.


That depends on how you see Battletechnolgy, because many of those units are in BT now.

Battletechnology was also an official publication and was canon at one point.  The Deimos came from a source that was neither of those things, hence my curiosity.

Mektek had several original designs, yet this was the only one canonized - at least so far!
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #13 on: 05 May 2024, 10:44:35 »
Some MekTek designs are only workable in MW4
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #14 on: 05 May 2024, 16:35:38 »
the prime feels very much like an attempt to combine the Bane 1 and Bane 3 into a single lighter platform.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #15 on: 05 May 2024, 23:26:43 »
One thing I forgot to mention was the fact that this mech actually got a mini before it had any canon stats, something that differed even from the Dark Age clicky mechs.

The original mini was also huge.  Very out of proportion, with limited details and quite frankly it was rather sharp- the edges weren't nearly as rounded as you see on most minis.  It was also only available as a con exclusive, as I recall.  The resculpt that was released several years later was much more in proportion with other minis and had much better details and more rounded edges.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #16 on: 06 May 2024, 09:41:33 »
Thanks for taking the request!  (I should also note that Sarna shows there being a H model as well, apparently from TRO: Jihad.  I don't have it so I can't check.)
I have that TRO. Here's the spread:
Gauss Rifle & ERLL in each arm
Heavy Large Laser in the LT
4x tons of Gauss ammo
3x Jump Jets

Just enough jumping to avoid some terrain issues, enough heat sinks to be a boring long-range sniper, and enough armament to make things interesting up close. Kind of uninspired to me as a Clan Assault Omni (it feels like something I've seen before), but I wouldn't turn one down.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #17 on: 06 May 2024, 09:49:32 »
I have that TRO. Here's the spread:
Gauss Rifle & ERLL in each arm
Heavy Large Laser in the LT
4x tons of Gauss ammo
3x Jump Jets

Just enough jumping to avoid some terrain issues, enough heat sinks to be a boring long-range sniper, and enough armament to make things interesting up close. Kind of uninspired to me as a Clan Assault Omni (it feels like something I've seen before), but I wouldn't turn one down.

It is something you've seen before - pretty much anything related to the Marauder II or Nightstar  :tongue:
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #18 on: 06 May 2024, 10:30:20 »
so the Deimos H is basically a better Stone Rhino 1..

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #19 on: 06 May 2024, 10:47:54 »
Given Clan naming conventions, I'm surprised that "Deimos" hadn't already been used by some sort of Clan vehicle.

Clan vehicles are specifically named after war/martial gods, and Deimos doesn't quite fit the bill for that. Adjacent, though.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #20 on: 06 May 2024, 11:16:18 »
Clan vehicles are specifically named after war/martial gods, and Deimos doesn't quite fit the bill for that. Adjacent, though.

Deimos was as least as much of a war god as some of the deities whose names were used for canon vehicles.
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tassa_kay

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #21 on: 06 May 2024, 11:24:22 »
Deimos was as least as much of a war god as some of the deities whose names were used for canon vehicles.


Out of morbid curiosity, which vehicles are you referring to?
« Last Edit: 06 May 2024, 11:27:09 by tassa_kay »
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BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #22 on: 06 May 2024, 11:24:34 »
so the Deimos H is basically a better Stone Rhino 1..

I don't think so.  The Stone Rhino has large pulse lasers instead of ER larges, not to mention the lack of XL engine vulnerability, so no heat penalty with a side torso loss.  Though I think the Deimos H putting Gauss rifles in the arms is a better placement for those weapons as it keeps the explodium out of the torsos.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #23 on: 06 May 2024, 12:37:38 »
I don't think so.  The Stone Rhino has large pulse lasers instead of ER larges, not to mention the lack of XL engine vulnerability, so no heat penalty with a side torso loss.  Though I think the Deimos H putting Gauss rifles in the arms is a better placement for those weapons as it keeps the explodium out of the torsos.

It’s closer to the Loki II Prime.  Just with a heavy large laser and jump jets instead of a Streak pod.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #24 on: 06 May 2024, 14:35:33 »


Out of morbid curiosity, which vehicles are you referring to?

Well, ignoring instances of Clan vehicles being given non-divine names like the Carnivore tank or not even being given names at all like the SM1, there's the Aithon Assault Transport, which was named after one of Ares's horses and the Zephyros, named after the Greek god of the west wind who was known as being one of the most gentle of all gods and about as far from being a war god as it is possible to get.  Then there's the Mithras, which is a questionable choice because very little is actually known about the Roman cult of Mithras other than that it might have been the worship of a hero-god.
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tassa_kay

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #25 on: 06 May 2024, 14:56:04 »
I'd slap the Zorya on that list, too. That one was really a head-scratcher.

For most of those other examples, being newer-ish as they are, I suppose it makes sense that the Clans wouldn't feel as obligated to follow the old naming protocols once they started leaving the Homeworlds and doing their own things.

Sorry, not to go off on a tangent on your thread about the Deimos here. Just something interesting to chew on as I hadn't thought about this much before.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #26 on: 06 May 2024, 17:32:36 »
No problem.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #27 on: 25 May 2024, 01:42:39 »
Not counting designs that use massed one-shot weapons like rocket launchers, is there anything that comes close to the alpha strike overheat level of the B?  Off the top of my head, the worst I can think of is the Kodiak, which hits 30 on an alpha if both streak pods connect.

Supernova 4, if my calculations are correct can overheat by 31 firing everything & jumping.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #28 on: 27 May 2024, 11:46:49 »
Hi. I played MW4 since its start, and remember when the Deimos was added. The creator I don't remember his name but I do know what happened to him. He went to a war and didn't come back. Not sure which one, iraq or afganistan, but it listed him as MIA. I cannot get wayback machine to work to get the page, hope someday that someone will be able to get it.

Just didn't want the detail to be lost.
Also, the torso is reminiscent of a Abrams tank turret.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Deimos
« Reply #29 on: 16 June 2024, 01:19:46 »
might be why they canonzied the Deimos then
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