Author Topic: It's a family curse.  (Read 14867 times)

Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #60 on: 21 May 2024, 08:19:02 »
Victor really wanted to be closer to the front...

...but Kowloon was, at least, above the truce line, and becoming a more tempting target by the minute.

"Walk me through this again, General Mosovich."  he said, "I still don't get it."

"Alright...you recognize the Rommels and Pattons?"

"Yeah, those aren't the approved update for either one."

"Gauss rifles are expensive and ultra autocannons are unreliable." Evelynn explained, "So, Her Grace got Defiance to let her buy rights to produce Defiance Devastators in 105 milimeter bore, big shotguns, like your friend Kai likes to use-the key is, they're reliable.  We used some of the weight savings from losing the energy armament for an antimissile system and CASE, but we kept the LRMs so we can deploy smoke."

"Okay...but that's two."

"Right, well, tanks need things.  They need artillery support, so we took a look at one of the rejected concepts from the Desert Knights project, and slid 105mm Thumpers into tank turrets.  Same movement curve, indirect fire capable, yanked the LRM pacs from those for additional fire director and communications gear, which ties to the third change.  One of the guys Brewer loaned Her Grace had an idea, swapping the location of the power-pack, then opening the rear up with a box-section and a reduced turret assembly, one just big enough for a PPC and some targeting gear with a power amp.  Secondary weapons there are machine guns, because we can pass it to the heavy support Machineguns in the infantry."

"That's the overweight APC."

"Bingo, but it's also, with five tons of electronics gear, a mobile command post or fire direction center-same chassis, same components, same engine and automotive drives as the tanks.  We then converted another one to a bulldozer and found tonnage for a backhoe, mine plow, and so on.  an entire family series of vehicles using the same engine, transmission, suspension, armor plate, filtration systems, you name it.  She calls it 'Economy of Scale', sir-less tech data to keep track of for the mechanics and the techs, and every cubic centimeter and kilogram of transport and storage is more efficiently used, since the spare parts interchange without customizing, which streamlines tech training for our vehicle techs."

"WHat about the armored cars?"

"armored cars, prime movers, field ambulance vehicles, scout cars, and Marine light armor are using the same engines as the tanks, with slight mods to the transmissions to use as many of the same components as we can get away with and still be mechanically sound.  The Fennecs end up being pretty durable for forty tonner wheeled vehicles, and decently quick-and mostly for our 'secondary' force-the ones who garrison on the ships and don't have their own ground bases.  Her grace spent a LOT on life support gear for those, because they're expected to be used in hostile environments."

"It's going to be hard to transport, your tanks and all their similar gear need Heavy bays, not light or medium."

"So they do." Evelynn shrugged.  "we're working up the contracts for dropships now-they'll be ready on time, sir."

"Now, about your 'mechs..."

"Her grace wanted Griffins, we can't get Irian to buy off on the license.  We're going with an LBX version of the Enfield instead.  It'll support the conventional forces but it's not a duelling machine."

"Exactly! you've got no variation."

"Tactics." Evelynn stated, "We're working on innovative ways to use what we have instead of expensive technical solutions that strain the supply chain, unless or until AFFC quartermaster steps in with a bottomless budget, we're looking at this as 'we have to fund it ourselves so how do we do that?' as the basis for what we're building or buying."  the maimed woman paused, then added, "AFFC budgets aren't bottomless of course, and they come with strings."

"It almost looks like you took the history section at the Nagelring seriously." he observed, "Common sources of equipment, with interchangeable components, simplified logistics and uniform procurement."

"We're modeling on an SLDF armored Division, sir, the only serious bottlenecks are going to be manpower and funding."

"You don't have a heavy 'mech regiment."

"Her Grace assumes that if it's decided we need one, one will be assigned from Tharkad or New Avalon.  we DO have three flavors of combat engineers, a separate signals section, intelligence and recon organizations, and the main-line combat formations.  Since ours are using GDI standard instead of trying to match Clanner toad suits, we can keep the training and preparation for those infantry units focused...which should save some time instead of trying to train the guys to suit up with whatever new thing drops out of NAIS or Defiance or whomever."

"I see a lot of flaws in this." he noted.

"That's why we train, sir." Evelynn told him, "because at least we know most of those flaws already ahead of time."

« Last Edit: 21 May 2024, 08:23:14 by Cannonshop »
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

DragonKhan55

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #61 on: 21 May 2024, 09:42:43 »
I am a simple person. I see a new Cannonshop Fanfic thread, I tag and reply and enjoy.

Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #62 on: 21 May 2024, 10:56:22 »
How do you define...

...'mistake'?  You would think this one would be easy.

Elizabeth spent the afternoon in the palace, giving the Archon and select officers a detailed brief on her military and economic programs for Kowloon and a few select neighboring systems.  They finally let her go at around 1900 local time.

by which time, she was pretty thirsty.

Katherine's researches delayed Ryan Steiner's intentions enough that he became interested, and from interested, to convinced that, in order to get things back on track, someone had to do something about the bitchy little girl from Kowloon.

She's a Hassenfanger after all, and punching too high up the scale for proper Nobles, getting away with something even better lords from more important parts of the realm couldn't get a waiver to do.

so...something has to be done.

How do you define 'mistake' in November, of 3055?

"No! put the guns down gentlemen!!" The shadowing team of Lohengrin agents hesitated, the shot would be too complex, too much risk of a miss causing collateral damage, too much chance that the 'group of ruffians' in the alley were going to open fire and hit their primary anyway.

"See?  show these bastards some steel and they back right down!"  his accent had a light burr to it, Isle of Skye maybe? yeah

"Mistake." she said. "Gentlemen, you may depart."

the security men looked at each other, then, she nodded, "go ahead, gentlemen, no reason to risk yourselves."

"you're not even going to scream for help?"

"I don't need help." she said.  she waited a breath, then added, "Your mistake is, you will."

There were no visible or audible witnesses, when she relaxed her hold on her other self.

The men from Free Skye did, indeed, scream for help-and nobody came to help them.

she waited a full five minutes for the Archon's security men to return.

"Be sure the scene is cleaned up properly, boys." she said, dabbing blood from her mouth, "I would hate for Her Majesty to be disappointed in your efficiency."

With teutonic efficiency, the Lohengrin special team collected the bodies-and pieces of bodies, and bagged them for proper disposal.

filled and satisfied, she stopped at her rental condominium, took a nice hot shower, and dressed for an evening out alone.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Lone-Wolf

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #63 on: 21 May 2024, 11:48:19 »
How do you define...

...'mistake'?  You would think this one would be easy.

Elizabeth spent the afternoon in the palace, giving the Archon and select officers a detailed brief on her military and economic programs for Kowloon and a few select neighboring systems.  They finally let her go at around 1900 local time.

by which time, she was pretty thirsty.

Katherine's researches delayed Ryan Steiner's intentions enough that he became interested, and from interested, to convinced that, in order to get things back on track, someone had to do something about the bitchy little girl from Kowloon.

She's a Hassenfanger after all, and punching too high up the scale for proper Nobles, getting away with something even better lords from more important parts of the realm couldn't get a waiver to do.

so...something has to be done.


Why do I have the feeling that both Katherine and Ryan may end up on Kowloon - non voluntary and not leaving.

qc mech3

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #64 on: 21 May 2024, 14:14:48 »
I know that scene  :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

I think Katty may be given a lesson on consequence for bad behavior featuring Liz and Ryan.  :lipsrsealed:

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #65 on: 21 May 2024, 14:28:23 »
I'm somewhat surprised by the choice of Enfields, since they have expensive XL engines.  I would have figured the TDR-5SS Thunderbolt would have been more likely, since it's Lyran, a bit older, and has the same engine as the tanks, plus the PPC of the IFF version.

Also, is the Fennec listed anywhere?
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
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Daryk

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #66 on: 21 May 2024, 18:30:57 »
Hmmm... trying to figure out the designs myself...

Fusion engines don't need power amplifiers, so that should save a little weight.

Extra Communications Equipment should either be three tons (for 4 total with +1 Initiative and SatCom) or 6 tons (for 7 total with +2 initiative instead).  Five extra tons only get you 6 total, with the same bonuses as 4, but with 2 extra crew.

The XL engine in the Enfield is the real problem with that design.  The Watchman idea mentioned earlier would have been cheaper.

7/11 Armored Cars with fusion engines are the best part of the force!  A turret mounted PPC and front mounted Small Pulse nets you 7 tons of armor for just 1,130,200... :)

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #67 on: 21 May 2024, 19:14:03 »
I'm somewhat surprised by the choice of Enfields, since they have expensive XL engines.  I would have figured the TDR-5SS Thunderbolt would have been more likely, since it's Lyran, a bit older, and has the same engine as the tanks, plus the PPC of the IFF version


I suspect the mech choice was in part whom she could get to sell her a production license, and Elizabeth probably wanted the Griffin first because of the commonality of weapons, LRMs and PPC.  The Enfield has the same movement profile if you go with the -6J version, and dump the LPL and small laser for a standard large laser and full jump capacity.

Raw C-Bill wise, it is about three Kowloon Rommels to one Enfield, depending on the exact models and modifications to each.

Though if using an Enfield, you could mod a Patton design with the LB-10X, since a LB-10X makes a nice main tank gun.

That gives her mech force a role of high mobility through rough terrain that armor can't easily match.  I assume those Defiance Devastator cannons AC/20s?
« Last Edit: 21 May 2024, 19:19:29 by Nikas_Zekeval »

Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #68 on: 21 May 2024, 19:28:24 »

I suspect the mech choice was in part whom she could get to sell her a production license, and Elizabeth probably wanted the Griffin first because of the commonality of weapons, LRMs and PPC.  The Enfield has the same movement profile if you go with the -6J version, and dump the LPL and small laser for a standard large laser and full jump capacity.

That gives her mech force a role of high mobility through rough terrain that armor can't easily match.  I assume those Defiance Devastator cannons AC/20s?

The Devastators are LBX/10s.  The 20s are really only good for close urban, and she's trying to plan a force that could hypothetically end up dropped into anywhere.

Why? because the Archon demanded a force, and didn't tell her where it would be used, of course.

The Enfield is, in deed, a matter of who would sell her the licenses.  The XL problem is ameleorated slightly by the fact that everyone who's making XL engines in the Commonwealth is either sourcing the specialist tooling from Ngo, or Krupp of Terra. She had to pay fees to her customers to avoid being dragged into a domestic trade war, but it's still a better option, esp. given that her longer term plans would involve moving to that type of engine in the future for everything once a suitable source of the right raw materials is in motion-which she's got in motion with her venture capital moves and the markets she's selected to invest THAT into.

It's going to take her longer to find/recruit/train 'mechwarriors than it will to build the entire rest of the force, hence the modeling on an SLDF Armored division instead of a 'mech Regiment-if she tried to build a 'mech regiment she'd still be trying to find asses for the seats by 3060. (and still be trying to build the training establishment to replace them when, not if, they end up Hors' d' combat or however you spell it-casualties.)

at least, if she doesn't hire lots and lots of mercs or feel bad about drawing fromt he SAME sources the AFFC draws from.  She doesn't want to HIRE Lots and lots of Mercs, and she's reasonably intelligent about how well drawing from the recruit pool the Archon uses would go over on Tharkad. 
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #69 on: 21 May 2024, 19:45:04 »
It's "hors de combat"... ;)

Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #70 on: 21 May 2024, 19:54:08 »
"WHy didn't you come to ...

...Lockheed for your fighters, Liz?"  Deke Haranshire was not the famous one, he was the grandson born the same year Elizabeth was.  "You know we're good for it."

"I know that you're a primary contractor with the Realm, Deke, I know that you have orders ahead of mine, and I know that those two things mean I'd be risking slowing down the recovery for AFFC units that are waiting on equipment to replace damage...and your family firm abandoned the H-7 because while it's popular, it's also no longer an exclusive, even in the realm."

"But...but Sabers?"

"Most common aerospace platform in human space, even the parent company doesn't make parts, but the aftermarket is sphere-wide and there are imitators turning them out for a song.  Nobody to pay money to, I can get parts for them, lots of people in the business know how to fly them, they're common everywhere and I can get the manuals cheap."

"and it's like putting a pilot in a paper mache firesuit." he scowled, "Those things may be more dangerous than a Lucifer-and Lucifers lack ejection seats."

"Are you saying I flight qualified on a death trap, Deke?" she asked as the server brought their iced coffees to the table.

"Uh...YEAH, the Sabre's a quick little light fighter, it's shit for superiority and has enough acceleration to get into trouble, but not enough protection to survive to get out again.  You've GOT professional pilots, they ought to have told you."

"Mostly they're happy they can put warheads on foreheads in ground attack." Liz commented, "See, the SB-27's airframe is very good for low and fast approaches and toss-bombing."

He blinked.  "You...you're planning....you're planning to use those tinfoil cans in ground attack with flack??"

"Not my plan. I don't get to make those plans, I get to facilitate what the military professionals who work for me plan.  we can make Sabres in large numbers, meaning a deep logistical well for spare parts."

"I think I can get you a better option, and maybe even a domestic production deal." He offered.

"Can you get it through the bureaucracy at Mount Asgard?  Because that's the OTHER reason I went with the open-source 'tinfoil box'-I don't have to ask permission from the 'modern major-generals' to build it.  Kowloon's above the truce line-that means per policy written by people who are actually more intelligent than me, that nothing on the critical military supply lists..."

"I think my dad can get this rammed through, or grandfather can, anyway.  it's decently armored, still has that maniac thrust profile you say you liked, and it's a Lyran design...and a little birdie told me you're using some of that unsold tooling from the Defiance contract you lost to build XL engines, so it's a good fit...how did you lose the Brewers to Krupp, anyway??"

"They underbid me." Liz confessed, "they underbid me, and they underbid me on the Coventry contract too."

"Did you win anywhere?"

"Defiance Furillo." she said, "but not the engine line, I managed to save the structures tooling and myomer looms.  a fraction of the value on that factory site, but it was better than losing the whole thing."

she sipped her drink.

"Seems like Krupp's coming after you specifically, then." he noted.

"It would appear so.  Jobs they weren't even interested in when I was a little girl, they're coming in at less-than-cost bidding to rook out from under me, they're taking our long-term customers, even."

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

mikecj

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #71 on: 21 May 2024, 20:12:39 »
Darn Terrans
There are no fish in my pond.
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #72 on: 21 May 2024, 21:08:24 »
The Devastators are LBX/10s.  The 20s are really only good for close urban, and she's trying to plan a force that could hypothetically end up dropped into anywhere.

Ah, and I'm assuming both her tanks and mechs will have compatible ammunition?  Since the Enfield has lasers for it's other weapons in either the -6Q or -6J model, that means the same ammunition can supply both.

Quote
It's going to take her longer to find/recruit/train 'mechwarriors than it will to build the entire rest of the force, hence the modeling on an SLDF Armored division instead of a 'mech Regiment-if she tried to build a 'mech regiment she'd still be trying to find asses for the seats by 3060. (and still be trying to build the training establishment to replace them when, not if, they end up Hors' d' combat or however you spell it-casualties.)

If you're stretching to field a battalion, then doubling the cost of the medium mech they ride isn't as much of a budget buster.

"Seems like Krupp's coming after you specifically, then." he noted.

"It would appear so.  Jobs they weren't even interested in when I was a little girl, they're coming in at less-than-cost bidding to rook out from under me, they're taking our long-term customers, even."

Yeah, but how long till those promised Krupp tools turn into "whenever" on delivery and servicing?

Oh and that fighter design, maybe the Samurai

Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #73 on: 21 May 2024, 22:15:43 »
"It's almost heresy to say that...

...out loud, especially around here, your grace."  Kommandant Walsh commented.

Elizabeth shrugged as the security officer did her duty looking for listening devices in the lobby of Mount Asgard.  "Heresy or not, it's a fact, Herr Kommandant.  I really can't afford to field Assault class battlemechs in my militia-they cost too much in upkeep to even contemplate it as a joke."

"Is that the opinion of an uneducated girl I hear?" he teased.

"No, that's the opinion of the very well educated military professionals the uneducated girl hired to organize her militia into something we could actually field."  Liz said tartly.  "Individually, or in a duel, an assault 'mech is what you want, so I'm told, they're very hard to kill and at any single point they can be overwhelming to defenses...individually."

"Clear, Your Grace."

"Thank you, Sergeant."  Liz collected her handbag from the scanner.  "but there's a problem.  Armies run on budgets, and the enemy isn't always courteous enough to be where your assault 'mech happens to be-and the assault class is, with one exception (and who wants chargers?) expensive and slow.  It demands a lot in transport and upkeep, and it has a much narrower range of rapid deployment options than, say, the lance of Mediums you could have bought instead...and the mediums give a broader coverage, can be repaired more quickly from serious damage, and can be replaced more readily with less tac-time at the factory, because the work can move faster."

"So, you see the battlemech as a tool of offense?"

she shrugged, "It's logical." She told the man from Dept. of Liaison.  "The battlemechs are the point of the spear, I spent a lot of time on the shaft leading to that point-the supply chain, how to get the most from stockpiles and manufacturing, even training and practices, not just for the operators on the front line, but the support entity that gets them the tools and supplies they need to be effective.  Soldiers without ammunition don't fight for long, soldiers without food starve to death, without medication they die of minor injuries, without shelter they freeze or worse, and equipment you can't repair is useless."

"I understand that, it's basic." He agreed.

"Do you? Thirty five percent."  Elizabeth said, "It's why I'm supposed to brief your seniors, Herr Kommandant.  Thirty five percent of the line units in the Federated Commonwealth are considered 'ready', we have Regimental Combat Teams still rebuilding three years after being savaged by the Clans."
 
she followed him to a lift, "I would say that intellectually you've been taught about logistics, but despite our nation's proud history, someone in the departments of supply and requisition spends far too much of their day reviewing back issues of Merc Quarterly, dreaming of leaving all of this for the glories of solaris or something.  We have as a Nation, as Lyrans an unfortunate habit of producing lots of big machines and excellent pilots, and then turning them over to the mercenary market in droves.  It costs us a thirty five percent readiness rate and thus far, forty percent of the realm.  IN business terms, it means losing forty percent of your customer base and a third of your best employees annually-that's a recipe for going out of business."  he punched the lift's destination as she ranted.  "I would prefer NOT to be the generation that saw the great Lyran Fire and Going out of Business sale."




"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Trace Coburn

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #74 on: 22 May 2024, 00:12:30 »
  But... but Liz: if you make the Lyran military run lean and efficient and professional and militarily competent, you’ll be eliminating most of the opportunities for kickbacks and black-marketeering and graft and backhanders!  How will all those poor Social Generals afford their dachas and art-collections and extramarital entertainments and chemical vices of a billion different flavours if they have to actually [gasp!] sustain themselves on their military salaries and spend most of their uniformed time actually doing their jobs?
  It would be chaos, I tell you!  AnarchyBedlam!  You can’t ask a member of the Lyran nobility to live without all the privileges and comforts of Proper Society just because they joined the AFFC!  It... it’d be uncivilised!

/s

drakensis

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #75 on: 22 May 2024, 00:59:42 »
If it wasn't for the minor problem of it being a Terran 'mech, it sounds like the ideal 'mech for Liz to use would be the Grim Reaper.
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Daryk

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #76 on: 22 May 2024, 04:20:13 »
Was Deke trying to sell her on the Seydlitz???

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #77 on: 22 May 2024, 04:39:34 »
Centurions, I'm betting. Five tons heavier, still fast, same armament, and way more armor.
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Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #78 on: 22 May 2024, 07:42:51 »
Centurions, I'm betting. Five tons heavier, still fast, same armament, and way more armor.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Centurion_(Aerospace_Fighter_class)

yah, I think he might've been trying that very thing.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #79 on: 22 May 2024, 10:17:55 »
"You made me talk to them...

...and made them sit through it, and I doubt they listened to a single word, Your Majesty."  Elizabeth said.  "Not one word.  Can I go home now?"

"I have not yet read Victor's report on what you built yet, so no." Melissa told her, "You may not return to your little pocket-realm yet, Lady Elizabeth."

"They're not going to listen to me-"

"I suppose not."  Melissa told her, "but they will listen to me."

"Highness?"

Melissa reached into a cooler beside her office chair, and tossed a pint of blood to Elizabeth.  "Eat up, we're going to discuss things with my officers again.  This time, while I'm in the room...and we're going to be bringing some dirt."

"Dirt?"

"Files, blackmail." Melissa told her, "A big bag of dirty laundry most of those senior social generals didn't know anyone had...and you're going to make your presentation again, this time, I think, there will be more motivation to pay attention to the lecture."

Liz regarded the blood bag, "AB negative?"

"Your type, so I'm told.  eat up, Duchess Ngo, I need you flush and pink for this."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

paulobrito

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #80 on: 22 May 2024, 10:40:28 »
That is a very different Melissa. I like her a lot.

Daryk

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #81 on: 22 May 2024, 10:42:07 »
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Centurion_(Aerospace_Fighter_class)

yah, I think he might've been trying that very thing.
I think Sarna may have the costs wrong... they have the Centurion for about half the cost of the Sabre??

Daryk

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #82 on: 22 May 2024, 11:00:24 »
Yeah, the Centurion's cost is right, but the cost they have for the Sabre must be one of the variants.  By my calculations, Sabres should only cost 1,610,156 (not the listed 3,145,781).  Deke's not wrong to try to sell Liz on the Centurion at 1,760,995.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #83 on: 22 May 2024, 11:13:55 »
MUL backs that up, Sabre is slightly cheaper in the “default” variants:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4959/sabre-sb-27

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3925/centurion-cnt-1d

On a separate note, I am curious as to what Liz’s condition is, in terms of what specifically those like her need from human blood or flesh in order to survive.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2024, 11:16:56 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Lone-Wolf

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #84 on: 22 May 2024, 11:37:46 »
Ok, our heroine goes the way of efficiency as always.

But wouldnt it make sense if the mechs also use the same engine as the tanks?

Of course a 260 rated engine means a 65 ton mech - heavy class and only 4/6 movement. But on the other hand can carry a lot of weapons.

And to the Generals:

In this case I really like the Kurita / Liao solution: Here is a gun with one bullet / a wakizashi and you know what you have to do.

Tegyrius

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #85 on: 22 May 2024, 11:45:05 »
"Files, blackmail." Melissa told her, "A big bag of dirty laundry most of those senior social generals didn't know anyone had...and you're going to make your presentation again, this time, I think, there will be more motivation to pay attention to the lecture."

Normally in the Ngoverse, this level of escalation involved Kowloon Coast Guard shore patrol involvement...
Some places remain unknown because no one has gone there.  Others remain unknown because no one has come back.

Dave Talley

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #86 on: 22 May 2024, 16:12:40 »

But wouldnt it make sense if the mechs also use the same engine as the tanks?
Of course a 260 rated engine means a 65 ton mech - heavy class and only 4/6 movement. But on the other hand can carry a lot of weapons.

Yeah I could see uses for thunderbolts and crusaders
Both use LRMs and SRMs to match the supplies available, both have hands for more mundane tasks, I could see a PPC thud as a major contender
But not their only mech, a griffon would paint well, fast recon is helos and hovers
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Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
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DragonKhan55

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #87 on: 22 May 2024, 18:58:51 »

"Thank you, Sergeant."  Liz collected her handbag from the scanner.  "but there's a problem.  Armies run on budgets, and the enemy isn't always courteous enough to be where your assault 'mech happens to be-and the assault class is, with one exception (and who wants chargers?) expensive and slow.  It demands a lot in transport and upkeep, and it has a much narrower range of rapid deployment options than, say, the lance of Mediums you could have bought instead...and the mediums give a broader coverage, can be repaired more quickly from serious damage, and can be replaced more readily with less tac-time at the factory, because the work can move faster."


Clan Heavy Omnis must have just utterly shocked IS folks when they first appeared. As fast as the classic Griffin/Wolverine/Shadow Hawk trio, well armored (the Hellbringer notwithstanding), and packing the firepower of Assaults in the hands of warriors whose baseline competence was that of an Inner Sphere veteran-rated unit (3/4 standard Clan Gunnery/Piloting).

Obviously Liz can't manufacture Clantech even if she wanted to currently, but a force of Pumas, Black Lanners, Ryokens and Mad Cats must be something close to Liz's dreams - mobile in all the right ways, configurable on the fly, well protected and heavily gunned.

drakensis

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #88 on: 22 May 2024, 23:33:32 »
Except that Omnimechs are more expensive, the variety of weapons means techs have to be trained and equipped to operate all armament, and that the four cited omnimechs use four different fusion reactors, two different gyros and entirely different computer suites.
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DragonKhan55

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Re: It's a family curse.
« Reply #89 on: 23 May 2024, 07:26:21 »
Except that Omnimechs are more expensive, the variety of weapons means techs have to be trained and equipped to operate all armament, and that the four cited omnimechs use four different fusion reactors, two different gyros and entirely different computer suites.

But if those four are all the mechs you ever operate, it still is not too bad. Canonically in either Ngoverse 2.0 or 3.0, the Kowloon mech units that Liz eventually created standardized around three different battlemechs:

-The Enfield, 250 XL Engine with an Endo Steel Chassis

-The Black Hawk KU, 300 XL Engine with an Endo Steel Chassis

-The Centurion (not as sure of this one, memory fuzzy), 200 Standard Engine with a regular Chassis.

And Liz did like the flexibility and options that Omnitech brought to the table since it meant her mechs could be reconfigured in the field for different operations as needed. In addition, Omnitech IS expensive, as are Clan parts in general, but a lot of that expensiveness would be in the vagaries of the Clan economic system and how inefficient it is. CS has a track record of writing the Ngos as being able to do stuff with money in-universe that leaves the FedCom leadership and the Falcons speechless.

If we want to get serious about the possibility of Liz standardizing mech forces around Clan and IS Omnis though (and oh god what a spectacle that would be), I have a proposal:

200 XL Engine: Fire Falcon and Blackjack Omni

375 XL Engine: Mad Cat and eventually Ostrogoth

Two Clantech XL engines take care of your entire mech force (light scout, workhorse medium, mobile heavy) and also lets you get in later on into the heavy Omnifigher business if/when the Hue Falcons trial for the newfangled Ghost Bear fighter at the end of the 3070s.

 

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