Author Topic: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?  (Read 1011 times)

Greyfell

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Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« on: 25 May 2024, 23:53:28 »
(Feel free to chip in, love to hear feedback.  I'm new to this level of thought in the setting, despite playing off and on for decades)

Been putting a moderate amount of thought into an AU direction.  I realized after some reading about other Deep Periphery small powers that I have only a general understanding of what allows a power like the Axumites to get established and somewhat self sufficient on twelve systems.

My general thoughts: 

Habitable world(s):  you've got to find a place to live that isn't going to kill you.   Breathable atmosphere, moderately close to earth gravity. No native lifeforms that are super hard to deal with and/or find humans yummy.  Able to produce some sort of food over long term.

Jumpships:  Can't be a multi-system power without jumpers.  And considering nothing lasts forever, a way to build, repair or 'acquire' newer ones.  From what I've read this is always in the form of some sort of orbital dock/ship yard(s).  Also dropships, drop shuttles, or similar to move cargo and goods from the jump point to planets and back.

HPG capability would the icing on the cake, but good luck getting it away from Star League, Amaris, Comstar/WoB, etc.

Speaking of Comstar... sooner or later they or some other busy bodies like IE are GOING to find you.  Or God's forbid, the Clans.  Are you established enough to deal with them from a position of relative parity?
« Last Edit: 26 May 2024, 23:02:14 by Greyfell »
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Alan Grant

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #1 on: 26 May 2024, 05:47:11 »
Some habitable worlds is fine (and good for producing food) but there are also plenty of worlds in BT that aren't very habitable at all, yet valuable for reasons like natural resource extraction. I think what would be more realistic is that a deep periphery realm has a mix of both. You've got a few rather pleasant worlds in there, and a few that are pretty hostile but you can't resist what they have to offer.

You'd want some of that. Some natural resources and raw materials to work with. At first you can just cultivate them and use them yourself or perhaps export them (or both) to build up some basic industry.

The eventual goal would be to build up some domestic industry. The ability to make your own 'mechs, vehicles, infantry weapons, fighters, jumpships, dropships. Even if it's a fairly limited range of items and you are still semi-reliant on imports, it's important to have something that offers the ability to build and repair/maintain those kind of assets. For simplicity's sake I only listed military relevant items, but you'd need a whole host of civilian industries as well for a lot of the same reasons.

Realistically, it could take generations to create that. It's easy to imagine a deep periphery power with a backstory in which they've trotted along in basic survival mode, importing everything for generations, numerous setbacks along the way (pirates, pestilence, crop failures, natural disasters, plagues, in-fighting etc.), until they hit a critical mass of population and industry (along with education) where the pace of development began to speed up.

It's also easy to imagine that it started as a whole bunch of individual, separate colonization efforts. That those 12 worlds or so were first inhabited through at least 12 independent efforts that weren't cooperating with each other much at all. By and large, that's how it has happened, most of the time through Battletech's history, including the early colonization stories of the Great Houses. Each world was somebody's pet project colonization effort in and of itself. Some were independent, some were sponsored. Only later did the people on those worlds begin to work together or join a growing multi-planet society like a Great House.

In the earliest days, it's easy to imagine these efforts even represent different colonization efforts on the same planet. Corporation A decides to set up a colony in those mountains to extract metals, everyone they send is a corporate employee and their famlies, some will become semi-permanent residents, others are completely transient. Colony Group B consists of expatriates from a Great House that pooled their resources together and set off on their own to build a new life for themselves and they land and build a colony about 600 kilometers from Corporation A. On a sparsely populated world with a handful of colonies on them, there's no instant "global society" it takes time to build that. Until then groups could exist with little or no contact with each other for some time.

The alternative to that is like a mass migration, not just people but also all the equipment and expertise needed to get everything off the ground in a year or 10. Which probably means the deep periphery power was really sponsored or owned/controlled by an existing party that put together a massive colonization mission. Along with sending people, they packaged together the necessities needed to establish a few shipyards/factories right away, and dispatched some military forces or mercenaries, giving the effort a tremendous head-start.
« Last Edit: 26 May 2024, 05:59:36 by Alan Grant »

Greyfell

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #2 on: 26 May 2024, 10:05:03 »
I wasn't quite expecting a small essay, but thank you nonetheless!

You've hit a lot of points that are making me rethink my still preliminary ideas.  Probably for the better
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rebs

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #3 on: 26 May 2024, 13:19:37 »
In addition to Allan's comment, I'll add these...

1 - When a colonial expedition is initially formed, they most often have identified at least one suitable colony world, usually there will at least be signs that others worlds are near by.  This is not guaranteed, of course, many a colonial effort was woken up by reality of getting somewhere a few hundred light years away only to be either disappointed by what was actually there, or just plain old doomed.

2 - Some colonial efforts were as small as one jumpship and whatever it could stuff into its attendant dropships.  Many more were composed of several ships, like the Axumites as you mentioned.  Developing orbital repair facilities for jumpships is going to be more effort than the colony can muster on its own in most instances.  The Axumites can affect basic repairs on their ancient jumpships, but if a helium seal blows out, or a nav computer fries, they lose that ship, for example.  Most Deep Periphery powers need outside help for high-tech options like that.  Bringing effective industrial capability that doesn't need 6 or 7 centuries to get rolling requires a large effort at the start.  Most Deep Periphery realms were not founded by such large efforts, nor were they even close...  But luckily there are stronger powers that will sometimes lend a hand in exchange for trade rights for resources, or strategic considerations like landing and bases, repair at orbital yards, or training on their worlds if they are suitable.  They may want to recruit from your population if they are educated enough and prove to be good students, have an affinity for values that Comstar/Word likes to see in potential recruits, etc...   (Hello, Word of Blake!  Let's make a deal...)

3 - HPGs... If Comstar or WoB finds your realm, they will often offer to build an HPG facility if one of your worlds fits their plans and criteria (criteria which can change from year to year or decade to decade).  But take care regarding what they want in return, much like with the orbital yards mentioned above.  They will want priority at HPG or orbital yard facilities when the time comes.  Don't put it past either WoB or C*. They may even take your orbital yards into strategic custody and cut you off of HPG use if they feel you might act against their interests in that region of space.  Or as many other reasons as you or I could think of just because of who Comstar/Word is in the setting.

Interesting thread!
« Last Edit: 27 May 2024, 13:14:22 by rebs »
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #4 on: 26 May 2024, 15:28:09 »
generally you'd want at least 1 world that is habitable by humans without much technological aid. doesn't mean it'll always be a nice place to live, but if you can breath the air, get clean water, and can cultivate terran (or at least human compatible) crops without having to resort to the products of a developed industrial base, you can make a good go of things even if you lose most of your advanced technology. societies without that sort of fallback option tend not to do all that great when cut off from easy resupply.


Starfury

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #5 on: 26 May 2024, 21:34:56 »
If you want a good example of a Deep Periphery powers that became stable over a moderate period of time, I suggest checking out the Hanseatic League. They did get conquered by the Scorpion Empire in 3140, but while they existed they had expanded to twenty nine worlds, 9 combined arms brigades and 3 aerospace regiments.

Greyfell

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #6 on: 26 May 2024, 23:01:47 »
Wow!  I leave for my weekly D&D session and I return to further discussion,  sweet!

Rebs: Great points.   I'd originally planned for the area to stay mostly isolated but to grow in power 'on their own'.  But your feedback as well as Mr. Grant's pointed out how atypical that is for Deep Periphery.

Ironically, I'd already been thinking of when C* or the Wobbies find them and how that interaction goes.  It also keeps them just a bit more 'connected' to the Inner Sphere.  Have they really built HPG's in such far flung corners?  I hadn't realized.

GlitterBoy2098:  I have one extremely compatible world, all but earthlike.  One 'ocean world' with limited archipelagos that gets developed into a food source, and most the others are.... rougher.  Some significantly.

Starfury:  I'd forgotten they were that strong.   Ironically I'm aiming for something roughly equivalent with this idea, but slightly ahead in overall tech to the Hanseatic's along with some odd offshoots in tech base overall. 

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AlphaMirage

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #7 on: 26 May 2024, 23:11:40 »
I think COMSTAR would build HPGs out that far but only if it was to connect it to the DRUM network of HPG satellites.

Your world might be added some Explorer Corps rotation as a resupply spot that can make some money or the location sold to the Jarnfolk, similar Deep Periphery trade cartels like the Hansa, or the nearest periphery nation of adequate repute. It is after all a captive market so it might be lucrative but you will have to pay a steep price.

However, a steep price is a small one compared to death when something critical fails and you can't make a replacement. Expect some deeply unfair deals if you are in a pinch though so train your maintainers well and buy the spares in bulk since you probably aren't getting visited all that often.

Greyfell

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #8 on: 27 May 2024, 00:17:01 »
I'm unfamiliar with DRUM network, other then it's somehow connected to the Explorer Corps?
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #9 on: 27 May 2024, 06:31:59 »
It's basically a collection of HPG satellites that COMSTAR Explorer Corps uses in the near and deep periphery to connect planetary networks and HPG-equipped voidcraft like the Magellan. They'd basically be like the Clans QR 243.

Nerroth

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #10 on: 27 May 2024, 12:54:48 »
There is also the question of how dangerous - and to whom - the local life forms can be.

A good example of this is the Curse which afflicts the residents of the New Delphi Compact. it's pervasive enough that every world in their realm is impacted; deadly enough to outsiders to limit the threat posed by pirates and other intruders; yet, for lack of a better term, "manageable" enough that the Compact's medical researchers can at least partially mitigate the worst of its effects.

And yet, were here to be any serious threat of the Curse breaking out somewhere closer to the Inner Sphere and near Periphery, the kind of "preventative measures" this might trigger from any at-risk realm with a stockpile of WMDs and the means of deploying them from orbit would pose an existential threat to New Delphi and the other Compact worlds.

So in an ironic sense, the persistence of the Curse is both their best guarantor of independence (so long as contact with outsiders is kept to a minimum) and their greatest source of danger (both in terms of the threat from the Curse itself, and that which might stem from increased contact with the rest of known space).

-----

I should note that, for their own reasons, neither ComStar nor the Word of Blake saw fit to offer HPG technology to the Hansa, nor to the rival realms of Nueva Castile.

That said, HPGs are but one of many new technologies which Clan Goliath Scorpion has provided to the worlds of the Empire - to include its new enclave over in the Chaine Cluster - as of the ilClan Era. Both Touring the Stars: Valencia and Touring the Stars: Granada note the major uptick in industrial development on both planets, as the Scorpions sought to uplift the local technology base to full Clantech standards. While Touring the Stars: Braunschweig stops short of that world's conquest in 3140, the Empire's current capital world has itself seen significant changes - not least through the emancipation of the world's serf populace.

Well, in the Scorpion context, said "freedom" means being "free" to test up (or down) into one of the Clan's various castes. It did take the Scorpions a couple of decades to develop a more culturally flexible approach towards their subject peoples in the pre-war Imperio - which wasn't helped by their early wariness towards the Umayyads, due to the (as it turned out, unfounded) insinuations that they had something to do with the Not-Named Clan. And, beyond the troubles which took place during the war itself, there are those among the post-war touman who would prefer a more "traditionalist" Clan approach to governance, which has caused plenty of trouble on those planets where they have been stationed in appreciable numbers.

Yet even so, there are new paths to social mobility on the worlds of the former Hanseatic League that did not exist under the rule of the Council of Merchants - as evidenced by the rise of an ex-Hansa freeborn to the office of zarKhan, or head of the Empire's civilian government.

So, even if a Deep Periphery realm were to draw the attention of a Clan, or of some other outside military force, that might not mean the end of things entirely. Depending on which Clan (or which other outside arrival) is involved, it might instead mark the onset of a new and unexpected trajectory for the locals in that region of space - as had earlier been the case when the Umayyads first showed up in Nueva Castile.
« Last Edit: 27 May 2024, 13:01:16 by Nerroth »

Greyfell

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #11 on: 27 May 2024, 20:12:57 »
Out of curiosity, is there a book that covers how much maintenance a jumpship needs and what facilities are required?

Would a small unpressirized yard be able to do some or all of it?
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #12 on: 27 May 2024, 20:20:02 »
It is covered in Campaign and Strategic Operations (or my Free Trader's Guide, link in sig below). 'Small' is a relative term but yes a yard large enough to accommodate the mass and volume of a jumpship would be sufficient as long as you have a continuous supply of appropriate spare parts and trained technicians.

Starfury

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #13 on: 27 May 2024, 20:31:16 »
Though they're a regular Periphery power, not Deep, the Aurigan Coalition is another good example of an alliance that came and went without resorting to piracy or weird reasons why it didn't get conquered by other powers.

rebs

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #14 on: 27 May 2024, 21:06:56 »
Mutual protection from space pirates is a fairly common theme with the development of all Periphery nations large or small.

Independent worlds, on the other hand, still find ways to develop and survive and on occasion thrive.  Or maybe you are in the right part of the timeline in your story to see and show when they and a neighbor planet system or two decide to form a coalition, confederation, compact, etc...

Also, Greyfell.  The orbital yard can be as simple just a slip.  A kilometer long pair of scaffolds with built on points to be used as mounting for various needed mobile facilities to be attached and detached.  With a supply of water and breathable oxygen, and a fusion plant or two to generate power.  Put it way out away from the parent star and radiation.  Like Titan Yards at Terra.  Or in the Wars of Reaving, in the Clan Homeworlds, a very long single slip in a distant orbit (Like Kuiper Belt distance) that was maybe two or three times as long as I said that was used to slowly construct the Leviathan Prime battleship Perigard Zalman

I know you won't have those kinds of resources or needs.  But I included both examples as distance and in the case of the Zalman, a gigantic pain in the ass biggest warship ever constructed that was built under everyone's noses.  No one knew because they would have to actively monitor a huge volume of space in someone else's system/enclave to do that.  These things can remain hidden from everyone but the builders.  For a long time, too.  The Zalman was only discovered when it materialized near a Raven fleet over Lum and beat them to pulp, and then went on to Strana Mechty to wreck a Diamond Shark naval star.

A small slip between half a Km or 1 Km would be feasible and versitle.  A 1 Km could fit 2 Invader class vessels end to end, so maybe that's more than you may want.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2024, 17:15:35 by rebs »
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Greyfell

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #15 on: 28 May 2024, 09:52:54 »
Rebs:  a star system is a big place.  And especially with the settings standard procedure of jumping in at the zenith or nadir,  I can totally see someone hiding some orbital capacity away from the inner system.  It'd be a royal pain to keep such an isolated yard supplied, but worth it if you were trying to hide some activity from pirates or your 'friends' in the communication industry...

I'm also seeing that an established system with orbital capacity I'd probably going to be extreme,y popular with other 'nearby' systems who start to get worried about the maintenance of their own, old jumpships.  AU musings intensify
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rebs

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #16 on: 28 May 2024, 17:22:06 »
Even a 500m slip can make you relatively rich and very popular.

And that's two double-edged swords in the Deep Periphery!   BattleTech in general, too.
 azn

But aside from the potential to parley dock time for resources, wealth, maybe even get paid in mechs or aerospace from time to time for big jobs, just having it can also influence neighbors to want to join with your realm or at least have a closer alliance.  Keeping your realm successful helps their realm be successful too in many cases I can imagine.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2024, 17:24:19 by rebs »
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #17 on: 28 May 2024, 20:58:55 »
arguably you don't even need a construction slip or a yard. you could assemble ships just sitting in orbit and using cargo carriers to haul the parts to the spot, where spacesuited workers assemble everything. (think how the the IRL space stations were built) that sort of approach is just far less efficient and much slower. having unpressurized bays as part of a shipyard complex would reduce how much manpower you'd need to do everything, as well as make the spacewalks involved safer for the workers you do have. a pressurized yard would make things faster still, by not needing space suits to do much of the work.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2024, 21:02:02 by glitterboy2098 »

AlphaMirage

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #18 on: 28 May 2024, 21:00:53 »
Yep, being a 31st shipping Baron let's you make the rules and friends (or fiefs). Kinda think it's how Hansa holds stuff together.

Slips do make it easier and safer but they aren't needed according to the rules.

rebs

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #19 on: 28 May 2024, 23:46:13 »
Sometimes it will make one a target of a larger state if near enough to them. 

Having high-value targets like an orbital repair/construction yard or functional HPG (or the things that go along with it like a strong population with enough of an economy to warrant these very large investments) is a double edged sword as mentioned.  Attracting one's eventual doom is part of that.
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Nerroth

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2024, 10:30:19 »
If you are thinking of alternate universe, there might be a few opportunities over in the Empires Aflame timeline.

-----

While the SLDF as a whole never went on the Exodus in that setting, it might still be possible that a small percentage - say, somewhere between one and five percent, maybe? - decided to head out into the unknown. Perhaps to honour what General Kerensky had intended them to go on prior to his early demise.

Such a group could, in principle, stop at some point along the historical Exodus route - say, at a world like Barbados. Or, they might press on to the Pentagon Worlds, or even as far as Strana Mechty itself.

With a smaller, yet perhaps more cohesive, exile population, and with no Nicholas Kerensky to... "guide" them along a different societal path, such a group might possibly develop into a viable Deep Periphery state.

-----

Alternatively, it's noted that the House Lords seized control of the HPG networks in their respective realms, in the wake of Operation BLACK SHIELD. Which makes for a more fragmented network across the Inner Sphere overall, since there is no "neutral" courier of HPG transmissions.

Even so, it might be possible that, had a version of the Hanseatic League been founded in the Empires Aflame setting, its founders might have been able to bring HPG technology with them from the Lyran Commonwealth. If so, that in and of itself would make the Hansa a very different entity than its counterpart in the historical timeline.

That said, it is possible that the Lyrans have only a limited ability to build and maintain HPGs, based on what stations and resources they were able to seize. (As in, they might not necessarily have mobile HPG technology, which would make it more awkward to construct deep space relay satellites.) If so, given how far apart some of the Hansa worlds are from one another, it might be a case of them running a cluster of sub-networks across parts of their territory, with the gaps between them covered by courier JumpShips.

On the other hand, with no Umayyads in this timeline, the Hansa might find the worlds of Nueva Castile ripe for conquest... unless someone else (say, a splinter group of the aforementioned SLDF exiles?) gets there first.

Greyfell

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2024, 11:32:45 »
I'm mostly thinking about starting an AU, not really hopping into or adding to an existing one.  But I greatly appreciate you pointing out an amazing AU!

It's really just a thought exercise at this point.  I'm bored, I work full time and this is how I keep my mind busy with something engaging while getting through my 9-5 mon-fri.

I'm also drawing off a very specific inspiration from another game/setting.  Not copying it wholesale (it doesn't really work) but heavily inspired by its units and politics.
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rebs

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Re: Surviving and thriving in the Deep Periphery?
« Reply #22 on: 29 May 2024, 15:00:10 »
Well, I enjoyed using it as a thought exercise too.

There's so many possibilities.  Both in the Inner Sphere and away from there in the Periphery and the far reaches of space.  The Periphery especially always attracted me from the start.  And as it says in the forward section of the old Periphery book, the history of the Periphery is the history of humanity in space. 

The Periphery is the bleeding edge, and freedom lies there.  Both invigorating and dangerous levels of freedom are there to be navigated.
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