Recent aero errata

[Weirdo]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=33530.msg2015991#msg2015991

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=27319.msg2015987#msg2015987

...so these can have a big effect on aero...

[Daryk]

Absolutely!  Thanks for leading the charge, good sir! :)

[SeeM]

So one battle ready Wasp and two other cramped in various yoga poses as a cargo per cubicle. Mantis-tiger-monkey configuration.

[Weirdo]

If you're willing to accept the long and cumbersome process of pulling the latter two out and readying them for use, sure.

[Gorgon]

That really helps with making canon DropShips more usable in campaign play. And it does alter the equation on what Mech to bring. It's no longer "the heaviest you can get away with for its intended role".

[SeeM]

If you're willing to accept the long and cumbersome process of pulling the latter two out and readying them for use, sure.

Logistics wins a war, I guess.

[Weirdo]

Logistics wins a war, I guess.

Double or triple-packing bays doors have a couple counters, at least:

1 - Doing this runs a pretty heavy risk of eggs vs baskets syndrome. Sure, you can hypothetically cream a whole company into a Leopard, but on the other hand, that's trusting an entire company to the armor of a Leopard, with appropriate consequences if said ship gets shot down.

2 - As mentioned, offloading mechs from bulk cargo status is a much longer process than your normal walk-off. Sounds like the perfect time for defenders to hit your landing zone if they're able to, in order to hit your ground forces when they're at their weakest.

[Maingunnery]

Yep the errata is pretty balanced.

[cray]

This fixes a recent plot problem...

[Daryk]

And it fully justifies some of my storytelling... :)

[Weirdo]

This fixes a recent plot problem...

Recent? I should think it was as old as 3057, if not older. :)

[BezimusPrime]

That certainly changes a few things with my design philosophy for Dropships.  The speciality ammo + useable cargo space means that I need to go back to work out if it is worth mounting artillery on a DS vs carrying artillery vehicles.

[Frabby]

This fixes a recent plot problem...

Not so recent after all. Converting bays to cargo space on the fly but losing the bay functionality when doing that has apparently been a staple of BattleTech logistics basically right from the onset. Just look at the numerous pirate raids in fiction where the pirates arrive with a Union carrying 12 'Mechs - what's the point of a raid if you don't have cargo space to take your booty home?
And the Black Thorns famously crammed 13 'Mechs (plus salvage iirc) into a Union in a novel from the early 1990s. Ever since, BT players have been bugging their GMs about it. I know mine have.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Wait, does it also means, since the remaining capacity on each bays are able to be considered as the cargo, is it also possible that squeeze in the ground armors(mech/CV) and fighters on that 'new cargo space' as well? It would be not so ideal ways to transport your assets, though.

[Weirdo]

Correct and correct.

I suspect one of the more effective uses for this would be to pack some ultrasmall vehicles(Swift Wind or smaller) into the unused corners of your bay that can be quickly prepped even with the cargo rules, so you can land, set up a defensive perimeter immediately with your mechs, and a few minutes later send recon assets out for some fresh intel so you can plan your ground campaign, or refine the plan you already had.

[Decoy]

Just because I need it said, Does having cargo in ASF bays prevent you from launching the fighters stored in said bays? *looks at the Vengeance*

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Correct and correct.

I suspect one of the more effective uses for this would be to pack some ultrasmall vehicles(Swift Wind or smaller) into the unused corners of your bay that can be quickly prepped even with the cargo rules, so you can land, set up a defensive perimeter immediately with your mechs, and a few minutes later send recon assets out for some fresh intel so you can plan your ground campaign, or refine the plan you already had.

It would be also good to pack some boomerang as well. Else some drone recon units?

Just because I need it said, Does having cargo in ASF bays prevent you from launching the fighters stored in said bays? *looks at the Vengeance*

It does not says about launching the ASF is not allowed, so I think they can. They just not able to use the bay efficiently and not able to fix stuffs in the bay or provides combat drop for ground armors. Still, since ASF needs to return and got refueled/rearmed/rearmored, those 3R makes you leaves at least some bays free of the extra cargo. But at least, with 40 ASF bays, vengeance can enjoy more freedom of choice on this.

[Daryk]

That cargo would need to be vacuum rated at least...

[Weirdo]

Just because I need it said, Does having cargo in ASF bays prevent you from launching the fighters stored in said bays? *looks at the Vengeance*

It does not restrict normal launching or recovery at all. It only restricts combat drop actions, which isn't something ASFs...normally?...care about.

If you want to voluntarily restrict yourself to only putting vacuum-safe cargo in fighter bays...well, you do you.

[Frabby]

It would certainly alleviate the fuel reserves problem on the Vengeance.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

It would certainly alleviate the fuel reserves problem on the Vengeance.

Also the spare armor/ammunition reserve for sustain such a large amount of aerospace units.

[Daryk]

All three of those things are vacuum rated, at least... :)

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

All three of those things are vacuum rated, at least... :)

I wonder that it needs to be. It would be depend on the design, but I doubt that the internal room of the bay must be open to the void space directly and it would be the least decision the ship designers will made - at least it is unlikely for ASF, I think. Also note that the bays are connected to the external door, means the ASF can sent to the door then launch, and there would be the blast door blocks the passage when the external door is open.

[idea weenie]

Wait, does it also means, since the remaining capacity on each bays are able to be considered as the cargo, is it also possible that squeeze in the ground armors(mech/CV) and fighters on that 'new cargo space' as well? It would be not so ideal ways to transport your assets, though.

The other option would be shoving in Life Support tonnage, so by the time you arrive at your destination the Life Support has been consumed and the Bay is free for use.

[Lagrange]

What is the cargo capacity of an ASF bay?

In particular presuming you can launch a 100 ton ASF with 20 1-ton bombs, is it 120 tons?

[Daryk]

Well, that's the strength of the catapult at any rate... :)

[Weirdo]

What is the cargo capacity of an ASF bay?

100 tons. That's the heaviest unit you can put in there.

I am BEGGING you to understand the concept of 'spirit of the rules' here.

[Lagrange]

I am BEGGING you to understand the concept of 'spirit of the rules' here.

Sure. 

Consider this just pointing out a corner case (100 ton ASF+20 tons of bombs) which the existing rules should maybe be modified to cover.  It's even more extreme with 50 ton VTOLs in a light vehicle bay loaded up with bombs since you can carry >50 tons in a 50 ton bay.

[Daryk]

As long as the catapult can handle it, it really doesn't matter where the other 20 tons come from on the ship.

[Weirdo]

When the bombs are loaded into a 100-ton fighter, they become part of the 100-ton fighter. That fighter continues to weigh 100 tons, because that represents the loaded weight of the fighter. A 100-ton fighter that is not carrying any bombs also weighs 100-tons, because this is Battletech, not any setting that tries to be serious about adherence to physics.