Author Topic: Star League - Third Time's a Charm  (Read 22025 times)

Wrangler

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #330 on: 13 January 2025, 16:22:08 »
I've tried ask but no one seems to have answered (I can't see response...)

Is the new (third) Star League using Lance/Battalion/Regiment formations??  The new ForcePacks seem to be in 4s vs Stars of 5.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #331 on: 13 January 2025, 16:23:20 »
Thanks.

The book mentions them as regiments and companies so I'd assume Lances of 4.

Wrangler

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #332 on: 13 January 2025, 16:26:33 »
Thanks.

The book mentions them as regiments and companies so I'd assume Lances of 4.
Thanks, seems odds to me. I guess they deliberately downscale the force so they can't compete with Clans forces.  I guess in long run CGL didn't want everything being clan structure.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #333 on: 13 January 2025, 16:59:21 »
Depends on how you look at it when the force grows. Usually Clan forces are organized in Clusters which are not as many Mechs then what the IS throws onto the field (usually a regiment). Though currently most Mech regiments are in reality 1 or 2 pure Mech battalions plus support units. (the LCT is for example one or 2 _Mech battalions plus regiments of tanks and battlearmor, ASF wing and artiellery support)
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Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #334 on: 13 January 2025, 17:07:33 »
why would the swcorpions sign up with the 3rd star league? they're too far away. there is nothing for them to gain

Not at current date but decades in the future if Star League takes off and grows it would be a different story



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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #335 on: 13 January 2025, 17:49:38 »
I highly doubt the Scorpion Empire is going to sit out the 3SL for decades. They're struggling for relevancy in the setting and metaplot right now as it is and desperately need some engagement.
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #336 on: 13 January 2025, 17:51:26 »
Question, and I really didn't know where to put this v/s make a new thread so I'm sticking it here since its at least in the realm of similar adjacent.

A long while back there was a story about the Blackout & some weird sun/scorpion/blood symbols on some mechs.

I recently was reading the wiki for the Green Ghosts & noticed some sub-units that happen to have some similar-ish type Markings as various sub-groups of the GG evolved.

Has there ever been any speculation/confirmation that those Blackout era units were in any way linked to the some future evolved Green Ghosts?

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Wrangler

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #337 on: 13 January 2025, 20:18:13 »
It does begs a question.   IF the Scorpion Empire joins the (3rd) Star League, won't that make the League itself vulnerable get into conflict with surviving Home Clans putting them on the frontlines of sort with them?
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #338 on: 13 January 2025, 22:31:09 »

Scorpions designed their military to be able to take on Home Clans so in this scenario it would be Home Clans versus Scorpions AND Star League

Not exactly a scary scenario for either Scorpions or Star League


(Writing moratorium on Home Clans notwithstanding)


More immediate conflict for Scorpions (and one we started getting in print) would be with Green Ghosts and whoever they seem to be working for (and to not get into unmarked spoilers seems to be poised to involve individuals from Star League )


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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #339 on: 14 January 2025, 01:52:35 »
That isn't even remotely true. The Home Clans are the Scorpions' #1 threat, for starters. To say that the prospect of them invading isn't a worrisome scenario for the Empire is laughably absurd, not to mention completely contradicted by actual canon.

The Adders alone could take on the Scorpion Empire and stand at least an even chance of winning, especially given the fact that they have lots of WarShips and the willingness to use them liberally against a "tainted" Clan like the Scorpions. And that's only as of the last time we saw them. It doesn't take into account how much time they've had to grow over the last sixty-plus years, or the other Home Clans and how much time they've had to grow, or the fact that we know the Home Clans fully intend to attempt their own invasion and very likely intend the Empire to be their first target...

The only things protecting the Scorpions right now are 1) the Home Clan moratorium and 2) the fact that they're so completely isolated within the setting. But trying to present their military as this elite organization that has nothing to fear from the Home Clans is ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated.

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BrianDavion

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #340 on: 14 January 2025, 02:15:57 »
Assuming of course they HAVE grown and that the resource crunch hasn't forced a shrinkage of the homeclans
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #341 on: 14 January 2025, 03:54:39 »
Or killed themselves of in a civil war between Aggressors and Bastion factions

Also, never forget that the Adders did send a force consisting of the bulk of two Galaxies and 5 Warships to the Hanseatic League and they lost 3 clusters and 1 Warship in the process. So it's not like that the defenders don't have teeth.
I would be more curious if the Homeworld clans begin a change in their economic system but that is a topic for another thread.

The main question will be how fast the Foxes can actually bring back HPG's if they even manage to do that. Since other means (Fax) have been written out of existence HPG's seem to be the only thing that could actually make the Houses sit up and take notes (though imho it saeems that the Federated Suns and Free Worlds League are ready to initiate covert wars to get said technology). That or some bright minds notice that Clan Warships still have working HPG's and decide it's worth the risk to capture those ships for examination
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #342 on: 14 January 2025, 04:12:22 »
Assuming of course they HAVE grown and that the resource crunch hasn't forced a shrinkage of the homeclans

It's not like the Kerensky Cluster and Pentagon Worlds are "tapped out" that we're aware of. And why assume they'd shrink instead of expanding outward (away from the Inner Sphere)? Or even looking to their prosperous Imperial neighbors for those resources? It's the Clan way, after all.

Also, never forget that the Adders did send a force consisting of the bulk of two Galaxies and 5 Warships to the Hanseatic League and they lost 3 clusters and 1 Warship in the process. So it's not like that the defenders don't have teeth.

I didn't say they didn't have teeth. I said that it wouldn't be a cakewalk for the Empire as someone else posited it would be. And despite the loss of those forces, it's also noted in that same source material that the Adders won their engagements against the RDF. So I stand by my assessment.

The perfect way to involve the Scorpion Empire with the rest of the setting, and especially the new Star League, would be if the Home Clans hit them and forced them to call for help. Otherwise, what even is the point of their existence in the setting? Fighting pirates and patting each other on the back about how awesome their perfect integrationist state is?
« Last Edit: 14 January 2025, 04:14:44 by tassa_kay »
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Gaiiten

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #343 on: 14 January 2025, 04:57:52 »
At the beginning of the original invasion the Adders demanded that ALL Clans with all their military power should invade.
So what if the Home Clans have used the decades to rebuild and expand their toumans effectively to that level?

Think of 200 galaxies plus a great number of warships (even not so great a number as the Clans could field in 3049).
Quite a challenge even for the 3rd League, would not it?
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phoenixalpha

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #344 on: 14 January 2025, 06:28:36 »
Think of 200 galaxies plus a great number of warships (even not so great a number as the Clans could field in 3049). Quite a challenge even for the 3rd League, would not it?

Nope. not even close. 200 Galaxies plus warship support would steamroller anything the Inner Sphere, Star League or not, would possibly even think of having in defence. I dont think at this point in time the Inner Sphere has anywhere near to 200 mech regiments combined to defend against 200 Galaxies. 

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #345 on: 14 January 2025, 06:49:03 »
Nope. not even close. 200 Galaxies plus warship support would steamroller anything the Inner Sphere, Star League or not, would possibly even think of having in defence. I dont think at this point in time the Inner Sphere has anywhere near to 200 mech regiments combined to defend against 200 Galaxies.
So it would be a deadly danger and desperate situation for the 3rd League. A thrilling story for survival.
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Alan Grant

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #346 on: 14 January 2025, 06:55:49 »
I actually think a story where the ilClan/3rd Star League commits themselves to sending an ambassador/military unit/lots of supplies or equipment or engineering support to the Scorpions to try to help them, could be very interesting. That mix of politics/military action could be an interesting story. It would also be a great chance to portray not just the Scorpions but the 3rd Star League/ilClan through the eyes of one or more characters loyal to it, but who is also operating far from Terra's authority.

The logic behind it could be to build the Scorpions up as a buffer state and almost like an early warning beacon. The Scorpions in turn might just be offered a very sweet deal, especially if it includes things like we'll build some factories or shipyards or fortifications for you. In return all we ask is that if the Home Clans come out swinging, send us a warning, and if they try to bypass you, please harass them.

In that kind of story, the distance from the Inner Sphere could become a virtue (of good storytelling) and not a hindrance. Whoever is sent is given a lot of autonomy to decide how to proceed out of sheer necessity. Rather than taking orders directly from Terra. So the author of that story doesn't have to worry about whether Alaric would approve of every single decision. Everything, every scene, every decision, is being decided at a few tiers down the ladder from Alaric's desk. That gives an author a little more creative freedom.

That was one of the more interesting virtues of the novels depicting Taskforce Serpent, those leaders were on their own. They had a mission and parameters for that mission but they had a lot of autonomy to decide how best to carry it out. But even that was largely a straight-up military operation. This would be more like a blended political/military/engineering operation. So more facets to it, more complex.

Gaiiten

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #347 on: 14 January 2025, 07:21:25 »
And if this ambassador is some kind of a warmonger he/she could provoke a conflict with the Home Clans ...
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #348 on: 14 January 2025, 07:49:38 »
Nope. not even close. 200 Galaxies plus warship support would steamroller anything the Inner Sphere, Star League or not, would possibly even think of having in defence. I dont think at this point in time the Inner Sphere has anywhere near to 200 mech regiments combined to defend against 200 Galaxies.
Combined? Probably about 200 regiments right now including a lot of smaller nations and mercs. Plus like… 130 clusters? Somewhere in that.

My thing is that the HW, simply put, won’t have 200 galaxies. There’s no compelling reason to write that. None.

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #349 on: 14 January 2025, 09:39:05 »
And if this ambassador is some kind of a warmonger he/she could provoke a conflict with the Home Clans ...

Eh...hard to be a warmonger when you know nothing about their status. Big threat, tiny threat, you have no idea. You've never met them either so you don't have a personal angle on it either. It's not like they murdered your brother or something like that. So I struggle to see how/why such an ambassador would be a warmonger over something they know so little about and have never interacted with.

I think that would be hard to justify from a character motive/story perspective. Curious about them? Want to learn more about them and size them up? Sure. Just not sure if the game developers/writers are ready to go there yet. They've all but told us to expect nothing from the Home Clans for a while yet.

So everything that might happen in this theoretical story/plot might just pertain to the speculative threat of the Home Clans. But particularly for the Scorpions, even the spector, the "what if" would be enough to prompt some planning. Because should they emerge you might have little to no advance warning.

If we're into secret agendas. The Ambassador might have some secret orders about the Scorpions. Plans within plans. Particularly if the current Imperium leadership isn't as amiable to the ilClan as Alaric would like. He/she might have secret orders to explore possibilities for regime change if the Scorpions prove difficult to work with. But it must look like an internal thing. Like it happened organically within the Imperium and the Star League/ilClan had nothing to do with it.

The kind of scheme ComStar would have dreamed up in the SW era.
« Last Edit: 14 January 2025, 09:42:02 by Alan Grant »

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #350 on: 14 January 2025, 11:15:50 »
It's not like the Kerensky Cluster and Pentagon Worlds are "tapped out" that we're aware of. And why assume they'd shrink instead of expanding outward (away from the Inner Sphere)? Or even looking to their prosperous Imperial neighbors for those resources? It's the Clan way, after all.

You may be interacting with someone who has read the Clan entries and books and applied realistic standards and outcomes to their Command Economy and Caste system.  (which is probably entirely wrong, since realistically, the Clans would've wound up in WORSE shape than the Inner Sphere if their culture were, in fact, actually implemented, a lot earlier without an outsider to parasitize off of.)

The application of realistic thinking is, of course, completely off-base, the Clans exist as a handwaved exercise in why Battletech is 'Science flavored fantasy' instead of science fiction.
Quote
I didn't say they didn't have teeth. I said that it wouldn't be a cakewalk for the Empire as someone else posited it would be. And despite the loss of those forces, it's also noted in that same source material that the Adders won their engagements against the RDF. So I stand by my assessment.
Likely correct, since realistic evaluation cannot be applied to the Clans at all in order to maintain their dominance in every field throughout the setting, assuming they have limitations, or that they are not racing centuries ahead in every field now that they're unburdened by the need to occasionally lose or fall behind for plot reasons...

Quote
The perfect way to involve the Scorpion Empire with the rest of the setting, and especially the new Star League, would be if the Home Clans hit them and forced them to call for help. Otherwise, what even is the point of their existence in the setting? Fighting pirates and patting each other on the back about how awesome their perfect integrationist state is?

Replacing the Lyrans as the ground everyone uses to fight their other wars?  Basically taking mid-20th century Poland's role from the Lyrans? nah.  They won't last long enough to CALL for help-because the likely plotline is for the big fight to be Alaric's Star league and the Homeworlders in the ruins of the Lyran Commonwealth.  (Clan Invasion 2.0)
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #351 on: 15 January 2025, 19:35:57 »
So it would be a deadly danger and desperate situation for the 3rd League. A thrilling story for survival.

CGL has said they want to move away from the storytelling of massive all-or-nothing wars where every single nation has to pick a side, and that story dominates the setting. They've set up IlClan so that everyone has multiple hot fronts with lots of little skirmishes possible now.
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #352 on: 15 January 2025, 20:49:07 »
I can answer IKEO questions now.
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #353 on: 16 January 2025, 10:29:23 »
I can answer IKEO questions now.

Fun read, skimmed a lot of it last night. Will actually take my time after work today.

The biggest question I have it when do we get more? lol In all seriousness I'm wondering when we will have a Field Manual style update for faction TO&E's in the near future? Will that be in the new Force Manuals or will we also see a new Field Manual at some point?

In regards to the book details:

I like how the writers approached the Wolves after the win, they have lost by winning as some have said. The more time that passes the weaker they will become unless something drastic changes. The Sea Foxes are quickly becoming Comstar on steroids, and the Wolf IOU list keeps growing. I wonder if the Flacons have to merge with what's left of the OZ at some point to survive?

If I had to wager if Clan Wolf survives in the long run it will be as a figurehead/side show in the Star League over time (unless they have a drastic policy change when they see the writing on the wall).

It will be interesting to also see the dynamics of the Star League as the SLDF continues to grow and get stronger.

I would have liked more info on the Jaguars civilians and TO&E, but I can be patient. In Forever Faithful the Fidelis colony was growing rapidly so I'm looking forward to seeing what that population grew to over the years when they had New Earth as a safe haven. It was not clear if all the civilians stayed with the Fidelis or if they split when warriors chose to become Jaguars or stay Fidelis. The book mentioned they have no merchant caste, but seeing as they did away with strict caste rolls with establishing the colony on Wayside that makes sense. I'm also curious as to what the message from Paul Moon contained.

I'm really looking forward to the timeline fleshing out the dynamics between the FWL and Clan Protectorate now that the FWL is invading the Wolf Empire on a larger scale. And waiting to see what other info we get on the surviving Nova Cats. Trial of Bloodright had some hints, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that develops.

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #354 on: 16 January 2025, 13:51:04 »
So in essence the Sea Foxes become the Word of Blake?
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #355 on: 16 January 2025, 15:21:28 »
So in essence the Sea Foxes become the Word of Blake?

I don't know about that, but controlling the HPG's, arms manufacturing, spare parts, mercenaries etc. It gives them a lot of power in addition to communications (provided they get the HPG's all working).

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #356 on: 16 January 2025, 16:56:31 »
So in essence the Sea Foxes become the Word of Blake?
I don't know about that, but controlling the HPG's, arms manufacturing, spare parts, mercenaries etc. It gives them a lot of power in addition to communications (provided they get the HPG's all working).

Essentially Amazon with guns and phones
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #357 on: 16 January 2025, 16:57:15 »
I don't know about that, but controlling the HPG's, arms manufacturing, spare parts, mercenaries etc. It gives them a lot of power in addition to communications (provided they get the HPG's all working).

Or we might get a new shadow war between the Foxes and IS intelligence services to get the technology for bringing the HPG's back up online. The League is probably ready to do so and the Federated Suns are most likely thinking the same. Or even issuing trials of possession for technicians running those stations. And maybe the Foxes will have to learn that you need to be neutral to offer such services. Comstar lost a huge chunk of trust after Scorpion and the Word was often viewn as League biased. And ask yourself: would you send important messages via HPG when the Foxes might give a copy of what you send to the IlClan?
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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #358 on: 16 January 2025, 16:59:24 »
Or we might get a new shadow war between the Foxes and IS intelligence services to get the technology for bringing the HPG's back up online. The League is probably ready to do so and the Federated Suns are most likely thinking the same. Or even issuing trials of possession for technicians running those stations. And maybe the Foxes will have to learn that you need to be neutral to offer such services. Comstar lost a huge chunk of trust after Scorpion and the Word was often viewn as League biased. And ask yourself: would you send important messages via HPG when the Foxes might give a copy of what you send to the IlClan?

The Sea Foxes remind me of Needful Things.........they have what you need and the cost is your HPG's, or your soul.

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Re: Star League - Third Time's a Charm
« Reply #359 on: 16 January 2025, 20:51:41 »
I do have to chuckle that Clan Wolf went from 75 clusters and their huge Wolf Empire that was essentially impervious to about 20 Clusters and a slightly smaller Prefecture X without a Fortress wall. And some of those planets aren't even owned by Clan Wolf, they're essentially still Republic-owned.

Kind of a self-own.
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