Author Topic: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)  (Read 1614 times)

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13707
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #30 on: 21 July 2024, 15:41:50 »
MG Maxim
I can't find this.

Do you mean the "Anti-Personnel" model?
If so that is Clan Invasion, the OP wanted Intro Tech.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

bugman

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 374
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #31 on: 21 July 2024, 16:06:14 »
Harasser with Infernos
SRM Carrier with Infernos and standard missiles for armored targets
Plainsman with Infernos
MG Maxim
surprised the SRM Carrier did not come up sooner. That would be a beast if it survives all the LRMs and PPC fire. They don't seem to last long.

EPG

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 123
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #32 on: 21 July 2024, 17:19:14 »
surprised the SRM Carrier did not come up sooner. That would be a beast if it survives all the LRMs and PPC fire. They don't seem to last long.

Answered your own question; those suckers are too dangerous to everyone else to get ignored.  Worse yet they’re slow and not well armored so they can’t weather the storm coming at them very well either. 

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13707
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #33 on: 21 July 2024, 19:12:04 »
SRM Carriers are for Hiding in Cities or Hiding in Valleys/Forests.
Your really not going to just have one sitting on the battle line.
Let me restate that.
You really SHOULDN'T just have one sitting on the battle line.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Greatclub

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3121
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #34 on: 21 July 2024, 20:01:58 »
Antlion with the right ammo does bad things to PBIs.

Charistoph

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #35 on: 21 July 2024, 22:55:15 »
If you can fit in it somehow the Ignis is a great too.

Well, there was Von Strang's world in the Periphery before the Falcons came calling...

Used a pair of the SRM variant as "scouts" for a group of SCA fanatics in the last Jade Falcon campaign scenario I did.  Used a pair of Badgers as proxies.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Charistoph's Painted Products of Mechanical Mayhem

House Davie Merc

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1318
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #36 on: 21 July 2024, 22:57:17 »
Plenty of great suggestions already listed.
I'm going to give you some odd VTOL ideas:

1. Armored Ferret Wild Weasel variant. VTOL packing a MG.
Moves at 15/23. Only 103 BV. It's an unbelievably cheap
investment that can be hard to deal with.

2. Karnov Gunship VTOL. MGs everywhere.
11/17 movemnt. 221 BV.

3. Warrior H-7C Attack helicopter. Moves 9/14 for 446 BV.
Has an SRM-4 with a ton of ammo and an LRM-10 with 2 tons of ammo.
If you feel like getting close make the SRM ammo inferno.
If you want to stay at long and your games allow alternative LRM ammo then
fragmentation ammo is pretty effective.



MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26673
  • Need a hand?
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #37 on: 22 July 2024, 00:16:25 »
Behemoth (tank) or Flamer Variant.  You have either four MGs, six SRM 2s, and two SRM 6s, or four MGs, six vehicle flamers, and two SRM 6s.  Plus you can load the autocannons and LRM pods with fragmentation rounds for additional infantry destruction.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

bugman

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 374
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #38 on: 22 July 2024, 08:57:45 »
Behemoth (tank) or Flamer Variant.  You have either four MGs, six SRM 2s, and two SRM 6s, or four MGs, six vehicle flamers, and two SRM 6s.  Plus you can load the autocannons and LRM pods with fragmentation rounds for additional infantry destruction.
I am trying to stay with intro tech with maybe a max year of something like 3028. The only ammo alternative will be the inferno SRM. But I think I have a use for the Behemoth flamer monster. As a big baddy for each side. Plus this battlefield will have a river/canal network. With a naval fleet on both sides. With landing craft. So the Behemoths can be transported. The landing craft will be customs though..

bugman

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 374
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #39 on: 22 July 2024, 09:01:27 »
Plenty of great suggestions already listed.
I'm going to give you some odd VTOL ideas:

1. Armored Ferret Wild Weasel variant. VTOL packing a MG.
Moves at 15/23. Only 103 BV. It's an unbelievably cheap
investment that can be hard to deal with.

2. Karnov Gunship VTOL. MGs everywhere.
11/17 movemnt. 221 BV.

3. Warrior H-7C Attack helicopter. Moves 9/14 for 446 BV.
Has an SRM-4 with a ton of ammo and an LRM-10 with 2 tons of ammo.
If you feel like getting close make the SRM ammo inferno.
If you want to stay at long and your games allow alternative LRM ammo then
fragmentation ammo is pretty effective.
I like these options! The game is a rather large format, so guessing a few of these are very likely.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26673
  • Need a hand?
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #40 on: 22 July 2024, 09:26:08 »
I am trying to stay with intro tech with maybe a max year of something like 3028. The only ammo alternative will be the inferno SRM. But I think I have a use for the Behemoth flamer monster. As a big baddy for each side. Plus this battlefield will have a river/canal network. With a naval fleet on both sides. With landing craft. So the Behemoths can be transported. The landing craft will be customs though..

Fragmentation LRMs predate the Star League.  It's considered Advanced and has basically no effect on armored targets of any kind, which is why it's rarely seen in games.  I thought there was also some sort of ammo for autocannons that gave them a bonus to damage vs infantry, but I don't see it listed on Sarna.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Paul

  • dies a lot at the Solaris Melee Challenge!
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15913
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #41 on: 22 July 2024, 09:49:36 »
ammo for autocannons that gave them a bonus to damage vs infantry

Flechette ammo.

Full weapon damage to infantry, double damage to woods, so great for clearing those heavy woods they're camping in.
Half damage against other units.
The solution is just ignore Paul.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26673
  • Need a hand?
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #42 on: 22 July 2024, 10:28:59 »
Thanks.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Von Jankmon

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1099
  • Everyone is entitled to my opinions
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #43 on: 22 July 2024, 12:09:38 »
I would not rely on SRM's even with infernos.

A Javelin?  Hell no!  PBI take a lot of shooting and there will be a lot of missing involved especially if they are smart and force you to play whack-a-mole with them.

You need a mixture of weapons including machine guns, small or medium lasers and any missiles will be for larger concentrations, opportunities and for taking out support weapons.

Vulcan and Flea are perfect for this.
Stinger and Locust almost perfect.
Firestarter and Phoenix Hawk are strong contenders.
After that anything else.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.

Charistoph

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #44 on: 22 July 2024, 13:17:15 »
I would not rely on SRM's even with infernos.

A Javelin?  Hell no!  PBI take a lot of shooting and there will be a lot of missing involved especially if they are smart and force you to play whack-a-mole with them.

You need a mixture of weapons including machine guns, small or medium lasers and any missiles will be for larger concentrations, opportunities and for taking out support weapons.

Vulcan and Flea are perfect for this.
Stinger and Locust almost perfect.
Firestarter and Phoenix Hawk are strong contenders.
After that anything else.

Vehicle SRMs have a greater range than Infantry do (barring Field Guns), and are far more reliable than most AI guns.  Everything on the Burst-Fire weapons chart that you listed do random damage, averaging 7 PBI for a Machine Gun and 14 for the Flamer.  An SRM-6 with Infernos will take out 18 PBI every single time.  Cluster weapons don't use the Cluster Roll against PBI, after all.  With the average Platoon clocking in at 28, with a custom 30 at the largest or 21 for the smallest preset, you've taking out more than half the Platoon and they are now either in, or close to, Forced Withdrawal.

Where the others have the advantage is mostly in weight.  A Machine Gun is half a ton with a half ton or more needed for Ammo.  A Flamer is a ton (with a ton more for Ammo if you opt for the Vehicle model).  An SRM-6 is 4+ tons (3 for Weapon, 1 for Ammo).  So for the weight of an SRM-6, you could be bringing 6 Machine Guns, or 4 Flamers.  However, in order to use them you need to be in the PBI's optimum range.

Of course, if you can get them to hit, any Artillery-style weapon will do even better, whether it's a Piece, a Cannon, or a Mortar.  AOE Damage does double damage to whatever they would do to a Vehicle, individual Battle Armor, or Mech.

Of course, that's in the open when they aren't in a Building.  Getting them out of a Building IS hard, I won't deny that.  Odds are you need to take out the building in order to kill the Infantry.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Charistoph's Painted Products of Mechanical Mayhem

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26673
  • Need a hand?
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #45 on: 22 July 2024, 14:59:36 »
Use Infernos to set the building on fire.  :evil:
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9769
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #46 on: 22 July 2024, 16:21:29 »
Use Infernos to set the building on fire.  :evil:

 :laugh: this is why my buds have complimented some of the infamy rules from Flying Circus: Iron Chariots into our games... I may abuse Infernos enough to give General Sherman concerns...
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13707
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #47 on: 22 July 2024, 17:27:14 »
Behemoth (tank) or Flamer Variant.  You have either four MGs, six SRM 2s, and two SRM 6s, or four MGs, six vehicle flamers, and two SRM 6s.
Six?
I think its only 4 SRM-2s.
1 Per side, 2 in the Front.
But either way plenty of grunt killing.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13707
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #48 on: 22 July 2024, 17:31:09 »
Fragmentation LRMs predate the Star League.  It's considered Advanced and has basically no effect on armored targets of any kind, which is why it's rarely seen in games.  I thought there was also some sort of ammo for autocannons that gave them a bonus to damage vs infantry, but I don't see it listed on Sarna.


Are you sure its "Advanced"?   For some reason I thought there were a few "Standard" tech ammos beyond NARC/Inferno/SG.


Flechette ammo.

Full weapon damage to infantry, double damage to woods, so great for clearing those heavy woods they're camping in.
Half damage against other units.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Aresneo

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 371
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #49 on: 22 July 2024, 17:43:24 »
Fragmentation LRMs predate the Star League.  It's considered Advanced and has basically no effect on armored targets of any kind, which is why it's rarely seen in games.  I thought there was also some sort of ammo for autocannons that gave them a bonus to damage vs infantry, but I don't see it listed on Sarna.
Fragmentation LRMs are Standard tech level, not advanced. Flechette ammo exists for ACs, also Standard level. Both are in Total Warfare page 141.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26673
  • Need a hand?
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #50 on: 22 July 2024, 17:51:18 »
Six?
I think its only 4 SRM-2s.
1 Per side, 2 in the Front.
But either way plenty of grunt killing.


Are you sure its "Advanced"?   For some reason I thought there were a few "Standard" tech ammos beyond NARC/Inferno/SG.



I blame it on it being late when I posted and I'd been out of town hanging out with friends all weekend.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13707
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #51 on: 22 July 2024, 18:16:29 »
I blame it on it being late when I posted and I'd been out of town hanging out with friends all weekend.
I accept this as a logical & well thought out reasoning :)   
Social time 4TW


Fragmentation LRMs are Standard tech level, not advanced. Flechette ammo exists for ACs, also Standard level. Both are in Total Warfare page 141.
Thanks for the clarification.
I thought there were a few but I have no idea the full list.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Prospernia

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1065
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #52 on: 22 July 2024, 18:17:57 »
3026 APCs: you can buy an entire platoon or company, for the price of one mech. Plus you get infantry that can hunt their own kind down.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13707
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #53 on: 22 July 2024, 18:30:49 »
3026 APCs: you can buy an entire platoon or company, for the price of one mech. Plus you get infantry that can hunt their own kind down.
Off topic, but, You know what I love these for, fluff wise?
Not for being part of a true military.
But the 10 man limit & the Armor + MGs.
SWAT Trucks &/or Paddy Wagons.
I don't use the cheesy squad level rules, so these have very little table time, but, I think they make great "background filler" for Para-Military type stuff.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

bugman

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 374
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #54 on: 22 July 2024, 20:59:03 »
Just to be clear. For my own purposes I am limiting my use of all special ammunition. Other than the inferno SRMs. I am using your responses as a planning resource for a large game coming in November. It's a annual get together for our gaming group. This is a back to basics game, very old school in nature. Basically we will be using the circa 1986 weapons table. Intro tech with infernos being ok. Most likely using a 3028 cut off year for units. MUL compatible so legal variants ok.

I was inactive basically from 1994 to 2020. With only a occasional game without updated rules during that period. So it appears a lot of new units and equipment have been added to the 3025 tech base. Including the expanded ammunition types. I personally won't be using them in this game. I might in the future though....

So it is interesting to see these options mentioned. It is also very interesting to see some units that did not exist back in 1994 but are compatible with the MUL. Since we plan to use the MUL tool.

Lots of really good ideas have been suggested so far. So thanks to all of you. Hopefully  more follow.
 
 
 

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 41291
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #55 on: 23 July 2024, 09:58:55 »
Off topic, but, You know what I love these for, fluff wise?
Not for being part of a true military.
But the 10 man limit & the Armor + MGs.
SWAT Trucks &/or Paddy Wagons.
I don't use the cheesy squad level rules, so these have very little table time, but, I think they make great "background filler" for Para-Military type stuff.

You should check out some of the police vees in Vehicle Annex. :police:
My wife writes books

Sixteen tons means sixteen suits. CT must be repaired.

"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 20037
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #56 on: 23 July 2024, 10:49:49 »
The kintaro 18 and blackjack 1X are outside picks that can be fun

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Charistoph

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4004
Re: Looking for real grunt killers (mechs and vehicles)
« Reply #57 on: 23 July 2024, 11:20:59 »
Just to be clear. For my own purposes I am limiting my use of all special ammunition. Other than the inferno SRMs. I am using your responses as a planning resource for a large game coming in November. It's a annual get together for our gaming group. This is a back to basics game, very old school in nature. Basically we will be using the circa 1986 weapons table. Intro tech with infernos being ok. Most likely using a 3028 cut off year for units. MUL compatible so legal variants ok.

Aside from the Hatchet, that's pretty much the weapon list available in the Game of Armored Combat manual, I believe. 
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Charistoph's Painted Products of Mechanical Mayhem

 

Register